Blackhawks Acquire Alex Nylander

The Blackhawks had too many defenseman. Something had to give. On Tuesday, something did.

Chicago acquired forward Alex Nylander from the Buffalo Sabres in exchange for defenseman Henri Jokiharju. Nylander’s contract has an AAV of $863,333 and is signed through the 2020-21 season.

Nylander, 21, was the eighth overall pick in the 2016 NHL Draft. He has scored three goals with three assists in 19 NHL games in his young career. A right-handed winger, Nylander is listed at 6-1 and 192 pounds.

167 thoughts on “Blackhawks Acquire Alex Nylander

  1. Horrible trade.

    Dud of a player.

    There has to be some friction or joki wasnt getting Collitons system.

    But getting the dud nylander?

    F***

  2. Lots of talent coming behind Jokiharju. Hawks just traded depth to add a kid who was a top-ten pick three years ago. We’ll see on this one… big swing by both teams here.

  3. Wish it wasn’t Joki. Oh well.

    This was not the notification I was looking for. Can we just get rid of Anisimov, please?

  4. Seriously? This is all they got back? Gave up on him that got and didn’t get much in return. Guess Boqvist will be jettisoned in a couple years for a 3rd lime penalty killer.

  5. Who would the majority of us posting, non posting and otherwise rather have playing, Joki or Maata (not to mention the cap hits, contract lengths, upside, injury history, etc)?

    So the Maata trade is/was essentially Kahun & Joki for Maata & Nylander.

    In addition, (his personal disdain for Kempny & Gustafsson aside), who do we posters, non posters and otherwise trust, Q’s evaluation and playing time for a young D man like Joki, or the new coach (and Bowman)? To cut bait on someone like Joki for what was received in return is laughable. Or sad. Or aggravating. Depending on how one reacts.

    This is a poor trade. At best.

  6. I can’t do this anymore. Stan just tears this team and it’s future apart year by year. We have no defensive future. We added am extremely over priced matta. Stan needs to go! All he is doing is trying to save his job and squeak into the playoffs so he can get that extension. The organization is laughable for allowing this clown to do this year in and year out. No longer can I watch this team. I feel bad for true fans

  7. Did Hawks really just traded young top 4 righthanded Dman with 2 years on ELC remaining for bust with 30 goals in 3 AHL seasons? So our top 6 is bunch of overpaid and slow Dmen + Gus (who will become overpaid next year).
    I think we will regret this trade for next 15 years…
    Jokiharju has gold from WC this year (no junior, but against men), when he was still a few days before his 20th birthday.

  8. Espamer, by my count the Hawks currently have 10 1st rnd picks on the roster right now. Kane Toews and Seabs are the only ones the Hawks picked. The rest came via trade or FA signing.

  9. I meaned not ‘only’ junior, as he has gold both from WJC and WC this season…

  10. Stan passes on Bouchard, Dobson, and Byram and trades the one guy who might actually turn out to be a true 200 ft defenseman. He obviously has a very different idea than most of us as to what it takes to build a defense.

  11. The kids only 21 I’ll wait a while before I judge This trade He was a top nine pack three years ago let’s see what happens.. That being said I’m kind of disappointed we haven’t been able to move Seabrook or Anisimov

  12. I have thought that Jokiharju could have been dealt all along. But (wow) I’m surprised at how he was sent off. I thought he would be packaged as part of a deal for a more established player. Didn’t think that the Blackhawks would get Dzingel or a scorer of his caliber with the signing of Lehner, unless salary was moved with AA etc. and the movement of Jokiharju went along with it. Did not expect the trade of Henri J. to be for a player like Nylander. Oh well …… will have to hope that this works out. Seems strange, though.

  13. TAB- trading a young dman because Seabrook is taking his spot is why. Sorry you cant figure that out.

  14. Hot take central here at Committed Indians. Can always count on reasoned arguments here, ha ha.

    Anyway, fact is nobody knows how this trade will turn out. We’ll have to let it play out.

    I do find it interesting that they gave up on Joki. I remember another team’s scout say that Joki didn’t like contact and was getting manhandled in board battles. Maybe our front office and scouts concluded he wasn’t physical enough.

  15. My initial reaction to all the comments was that you folks are nuts ……….. then it suddenly hit me that we didn’t get William Nylander ……. I guess I need a remedial reading class

  16. Unlike most here, I was never a fan of Joki – that can easily be supported by reading most all of my posts since I started posting here. He had a lousy camp last year and in my opinion the only reason he made the team was because of Q. He actually got better for about 10-12, maybe 15 games and then……… THUD. He sucked. BIG TIME. Putting him with Keith didn’t help, in fact it isolated him on the ice even more so because of the limited time Keith spends in his own zone and the roaming he does when caught down there. Opponents had their choice when coming down the ice. They could take Henri outside or inside. Either way he was beaten, and like a rented mule. The reason he went down to the AHL the last half of the year was because he had no confidence, no speed, no ability to defend or be in position. He had regressed from a raw, weak player to an average, but unconfident AHL player, in my opinion. I screamed about pairing him with Keith and it eventually showed that Joki simply wasn’t ready. It blew him up, and was clearly pissing Keith off by his reactions/mannerisms on the ice. Way too much finger-pointing on the ice was going on. Joki was done. The kid wasn’t getting it.

    Could he have recovered this year? I have no clue, but I was nowhere near in camp with the multitude of people calling him the top pair defenseman for 2019-2020 that was on here daily. He is a couple years away from being good enough to be evaluated as an NHL Dman. I wish him well, but I won’t miss him. He was a project.

    This is a prayer from one team trying to answer a prayer from another team. I like what we get back in return. Good bloodline, RIGHT HANDED SHOT (in case you don’t remember what else I have been screaming about for the past year) and he plays a wing naturally. We traded from what most feel is a strength this time. Be happy we could at least do that! Fixes part of the logjam in the AHL too. Nylander has decent size, not a HULL SMURF. So no bitching about that please. He should be ready for a change of scenery and a new chance.

    I like it.

    Next move please. We need to replace our former top pair Dman now, with an actual top pair NHL level Dman.

  17. Different circumstances, and a different guy coming back, but this has some of the same feel for me as dumping Danault and Stephen Johns. The org spends at least a couple of years (or more) developing a guy who has a very high likelihood of being a solid NHL player and out of nowhere he is gone for a really questionable return. I had on balance liked Stan’s deals this summer (although I was firmly in the Byram camp as well), but this just has that Stan deja vu feeling that we just wasted another good young asset.

    As for former top 10 or first-rounder or whatever, that is the biggest nothing burger of all. Strome aside, most of the busts stay busts.

  18. Another young 21 y o kid arriving .interesting move..
    How many more move before the first game in september
    Wish to see a big shocking trade ….
    So far i like my summer … Colliton is getting players he wants for the Hawks..i trust him and i beleive he can make this team a better team .
    Colliton will find a way to go back in playoff very soon .
    GO HAWKS GO

  19. Not sure why some are surprised by this. It was pretty clear based on the moves made and last season as a whole that Jokiharju wasn’t in the teams plans. And adding the d-men they’ve added recently made that abundantly clear to other teams that Jokiharju was available.

  20. This is why the Hawks can’t develop talent – they don’t stay around long enough to be developed.

    Hard to believe Stan and Co. when they say things like, “Henri is going to Rockford…we still love his game….” when they do things like this.

    Bad trade IMO – this guy was lights out in the junior championship recently.

  21. Come on now, this feels closer to the Schmaltz for Strome trade than anything. Give Stan some credit, if he traded Joki, someone must of told him he wasn’t going to cut it. Buffalo isn’t exactly a hotbed for player development so maybe the Hawks figured that Joki wasn’t their guy and the Hawks player dev was better than Buffalo’s. Time will tell.

  22. Nobody want Seabrook in a trade for a 21 y o players ….Nobody
    Why Get a big contract , a third pair Dman ( Seabrook)for a number 8 pick at less then 1 million in salary cap (Nylander )
    Nonsense. But possible …

  23. It’s fun listening to the banter! I’m still struck by what will happen come training camp and the first month- TALENT can only get you so far… I’ll be a broken record on this all year because, I’m real life as in hockey, where talent intersects with success has a lot to do with Leadership, Coaching, Development & Attitude. Seems we have a “collection” of talent- probably, on paper, as good as most top NHL teams- but remember who was in last place in January 2019, and won the Stanley Cup! Or who made it deep into the playoffs in 2018 as a 1st year expansion team! NOT a roster full of high profile, household names…. but a TEAM of talented individuals who were coached into a Leadership position!
    Let’s see how this plays out come October 1st!!

  24. I am closer to Silent’s comments on Joki. I thought he was a solid prospect but never quite understood those who thought he was the coming savior for the defense. Only time will tell how this works out but something had to give with all the bodies on defense. With the acquisitions of Saarela and Nylander and the drafting of Dach we have significantly improved our forward prospect depth. Regarding the d-prospects (not named Boqvist or Beaudin) call me crazy but I wouldn’t be surprised if Dahlstrom is still considered a solid prospect. Also Gilbert had a strong year in Rockford (better than Joki) and Krys may surprise some people if he stays healthy. Lastly the forward depth will lead to strong competition for the last few spots which is very healthy.

  25. Doesn’t feel like Schmaltz/Strome to me. Schmaltz had a few years under his belt. It seems logical to rate performance, and foresee any future state since you have a lot of information to base it upon. But when a player is with the team for 1/2 a year, I find it hard to effectively rate someone. And to me its an indictment on Stan’s scouting if he’s so quick to trade a pick from 2 years ago.

  26. I’m on the fence with this trade – I wasn’t impressed with Joki when he went down to the AHL last year – he was getting manhandled and looked overwhelmed but his skill was obvious and I was optimistic that he would yet turn into a solid NHL D man (and he still could albeit in BUF) – so not that shocked he was traded

    BTW what I saw of WC Joki didn’t play a huge role – 3rd pair it looked like although given his age still pretty good

    The main reason I’m on the fence is that I don’t know Nylander as a player – I remember he was talked of highly in his draft year but clearly hasn’t developed like people thought he would although still only 21

    I’m willing to let it play out and see how Nylander performs in CHI

    Stan may have been feeling the vibe having been successful with trading for Strome so has acquired perceived bust

    Clearly a gamble on Stan’s part but they must like something about Nylander

  27. I think Stan forgot that he didn’t draft Byram. Kidding aside, Nylander is a young 21-year old. I just read he has dealt with several injuries. Like Strome, Nylander comes from a second-rate organization. Hopefully, the Blackhawks’ organization can develop him into a player more in line with what he appeared to offer when drafted.

    Our D for this season may be about as challenging as last year. We just traded for two experienced but injury-prone players. Boq, Beau, Mitchell, and others are not ready to make the club. 20/21 will be the year when at least two good d-men will be coming up.

  28. I’m confused by this one. I’m not nearly expert enough to assess the value of the trade, and I just don’t enough about this Nylander. I guess the rationale for the trade is a crowded blue-line? Because he’s not a JC guy? There’s some interesting commentary here:
    -Analogous to Strome for Schmaltz
    -Nylander a dud, and we just traded the next Duncan Keith
    -Busts remains busts
    -Various Joki not the guy commentary, not physical enough
    -Hawks can’t develop talent and therefore can’t recognize it, by extension
    -And, JC has a different view of roster building than Q

    I think the last may be the more interesting of those thoughts and I too thought Joki was a fixture for the future. I felt similarly when Danault was traded and we ALL know how that one worked out. Generally, when not in cap hell, Stan’s trades have been pretty good. I don’t have a great feeling on this one.

  29. Craig N – So what was it that you learned about Joki that you alluded to in your recent post? Also, Ian after calling this move what is our next transaction!

  30. Just reading up on Nylander and he seems like he’s got the size to be a power forward but with really good puck skills – maybe someone like Jacob Voracek

    At the moment we only have Saad who can play that way so I can see the attraction for Stan

    From his presser it seems the Hawks are looking at Boq and Mitchell as the future on the blue line thus making Joki tradeable for the sort of player the Hawks don’t have much of

    I hope Stan’s right – this trade has the potential to be a mistake or a home run

  31. What will it take to get rid of Bowman, one more year of the Hawks not making the playoffs, or two, or three.

  32. Scanned the boards and I haven’t seen this much joy coming from the other side since we unburdened Philly of Manning.

  33. Seemed to recall a lot of hate for the Strome trade initially as well – now everyone loves it

    Let it play out – if it plays out like Stan envisions ie. getting a big/fast/skilled top 6 winger for a D man who will be replaced by a better player in Boq we’ll all be loving this trade too

    I’m not sure that’s going to happen but it might – projecting Joki to be top 2 has been a bit of wishful thinking IMO – he could be a solid 2nd pair guy and if Nylander eventually plays top 6 I’m happy with that

    The Hawks have more D prospects than forward prospects

  34. Understandable that some of us have lost confidence in Bowman and wish for the good old days of Tallon. Which GM had the better goalie signing?:

    Tallon: 31-year old Bobrovsky: 7 years, $10M AAV
    Bowman: 28-year old Lehner: 1 year, $5M AAV. In 8 playoff games – .938 sv%

    Tallon used his 13th pick for Spencer Knight, who should be ready in 3 years, while Bob will be declining in a couple of years. FL is nowhere near a deep contender and need more help but have now blown most of their wad on one player. Tallon will get bounced if Bob does not perform well this season or next.

  35. Alot of hate on here about this trade, but the bottom line is the defenseman Stan has drafted are all not NHL ready. This trade and all the other Defenseman this offseason that have been acquired show that. I’ve been hating on this alot, however there is one huge difference between this year and the last couple of years. Bowman actually spent some money on defenseman. The moves Stan has made, has to improve the team from a defenseman point of view. We won’t be watching Manning, Davidson, Rutta, Forsling, Franson, Dahlstrom train wrecks….. Now the huge Elephant in the room is why can’t we draft Defensmant???? I mean if we would have got Dahlin or something that would have been cool, and that guy was and is NHL ready… I wish we would have traded those draft picks last year for him or hired someone who knows how to draft defenseman…..

  36. I should add that I do not miss Tallon. Bowman finally got the chance to draft #3. Tallon had the fortune of drafting #3 followed by #1. That goes a long way in making a GM look very good in a couple of years.

  37. Not sure on this. Ian said for awhile and Craig did other day. So maybe something between coachs and management happened there.

    What I feel fine with is Our scouts seeing that Nylander would be a good player. Do not think we would trade a Four Horsemen if it wasnt for someone who could be good. Top 4 D for Top 6 FW, when we need more Defense? Must be more coming now.

  38. One more note can everyone shut-up about the Seabrook contract. The guy is a legend in Chicago in my opinion. He has regressed but seriously anyone remember the hit on Backes, the goal in the 7th overtime game against the Red Wings???? THE MAN GOT PAID for winning cups, enough already……Colliton is the coach and needs to manage the regression and Seabrook needs to come into camp better than last year enough said…..

  39. One other question for everyone, who is going to sit for any of the defenseman prospects? 2, 7, 5, 56, Maatta, De Haan? Those guys are 25 million right there. Anyone think any of our defenseman prospects are going to break those guys??? I doubt it…

  40. Where do people think Nylander is top 6. The major concern is making the club. If he becomes a dependable 3rd line, then no problem with this trade.

  41. The jury was still out on Jokiharju’s ceiling being a top 4 D guy or a very solid bottom pairing, but the reality is he’s 19 years old and has 38 games of NHL experience in his 1st year…how many D prospects can say that?

    So what does Stan do? Trade him for a 21 year old forward winger (right there is less value) and a guy drafted 1 year earlier who Buffalo has tried 3 years in a row to bring up playing a total of 19 NHL games and couldn’t stick. He played all of 12 games last year in his 3rd season!

    Jokiharju = 1 pro season, 38 games, 12 points, .32 ppg
    Nylander = 3 pro seasons, 19 games, 6 points, .32ppg

    One is a winger and supposed to score points, the other a Defenseman and scoring at the same rate in his first pro season. What’s wrong with this picture?

    Stan needs to go. We end up giving up Joker while getting Maatta…Stan is a absolute MORON and if anyone thinks Maatta is better then Joker, just wait till the season begins and you start realizing Seabrook is fast on his skates next to Maatta.

    Fans need to rally and call for Bowman’s job at this point…the guy has ruined this team the last four years. Thanks to Tallon, we have a few cups, thanks to Bowman we have a first round exit and missing the playoffs a couple years in a row.

  42. With Dach and Kubalik already acquired this off season and now Nylander there isn’t going to be enough room for everyone

    It’ll be interesting to see how it shakes out

    Not to mention Perlini who Stan sounds like he still plans to sign and Sikura

    Tallon = 1 Cup (2010)
    Bowman = 2 Cups (2013, 2015)

  43. Silent, I like your dynamics of the game for Defensemen. When looking up Nylander stuff that was something there potential top 6 right hand shot FW.

    Wrap, this might end up being good. I mean both players being good even if Buckaroo is better then Nylander.

    Our scouts are what I trust and they must think Nylander could be good. And also think that Beau and Mitch are basically as good as 28.

    We always talked about trading one of the Four Horsemen for a young FW, not Buckaroo and not Nylander but also with drafting the Defensemen at this draft. Thats 5 good D and now we have 3. We also have that much more stacked at FW now. It funny we traded FW for D and now were trading D for FW.

  44. Wrap,
    Solid points. Still a crowded roster with more moves coming for sure. On some level, if you believe Joki has the 3rd or 4th best ceiling of your blue-line prospects, then trading Joki is a good thought. Is Nylander good enough, not clear.

  45. @Wraparound

    Apparently you don’t understand how teams are built to make championship runs. The ground was laid by Tallon for all 3 cups. If you don’t understand that, look at the key players and when they arrived under who’s watch.

    Bowman has done nothing for this team. Do I need to remind you of Panarin, Tuevo, and now Jokiharju? What did we get back for those guys?

    Bowman has ripped up this team. Maatta for Kahun? Give me a break. Wait till you guys watch Maatta play….he makes Seabrook look fast. And now we trade Joker while acquiring a guy like Maatta at 4x the cap hit? Bowman is a moron.

  46. Original, I think the top 6 FW for top 4 D thing is thats what the player would be when established, not now.

    Yea if Nylander can be good enough to be good 3rd line player this yr. That good.

  47. Seabrook has all the power with a full NMC. If he doesn’t want to leave he’s not going anywhere. He was paid for what he had done and now that he is declining his cap hit is an albatross and that’s why some GM’s are wising up and not giving full NMC’s like they were given in the past. This trade is a passing of 2 prospects. That’s all. Stan is loading up on offensive prospects as seen with his signings of Kubalik, John Quenville, Aleksi Saarela, and now Alexander Nylander. All of those players had good years in the leagues they played in and maybe they can translate lower league success into middle 6 or bottom 6 scoring depth on the Hawks next season. I don’t particularly like Stan but this is an improved team than we saw last year. Teams with depth tend to win and the Hawks might be a deep team this year. My take is that they will be but perhaps I’m wrong. If that’s the case we can all get together and build Stan effigies to burn outside the United Center next season but I’m going to take a wait and see approach.

  48. Bowman has to go. He has no plan. He just throws pasta on the wall and see what sticks. How can you have faith in him or the scouting staff when he has traded the last 5 or 6. He makes bad trades and signings, then gets rid of them and people think he is great. Remember he gave Seabrook and Animsinov those contracts and now he is trying to unload them . He is the one who traded Panarin , Hammer and Teovo

  49. This one is a head scratcher for me. The on-ice value would seem to favor Joki over Nylander but both are far from a finished product so it could look much different a year or two from now. There’s nothing concrete I can hang my hat on but I have a feeling there is more to this trade than projected on-ice value.

    My initial reaction was disappointment that the notion of the 4-horsemen coming online over the next 2-3 years just took a major hit. Joki being the only one of the four to have any NHL experience would seem to indicate the 4-horsemen cavalry isn’t coming to the rescue as soon as I hoped.

    There’s at least a few facets to the moves Stan has made this summer and I think one of the motivational factors is not missing the playoffs for the third year in a row and within that the T&K window. For as much optimism as I mustered for at least 2, if not 3 or all 4 of the 4-horsemen being core pieces in a run to the Cup over the next 2-3 years – it was more optimistic than realistic – having half or more of the starting d-corps with only 1 or 2 years experience is not a recipe for being a Stanley Cup winner.

    So add Nylander to the list of Stan’s 1st round reclamation projects. Strome worked out but the jury is still out on Perlini, Koekkoek and now Nylander.

  50. Maybe some group think here on Joki. Nylander has been in a poor organization, one of the worst in the NHL. Give this trade some time, I am also in the camp that Joki wasn’t fond of contact. This team is much improved currently. Hopefully the pk is going to much improved.

  51. Wrong Nylander! Joki? I hope he does well. A little shy on the puck but nic IQ.
    Nylander is an upgrade from Sikura that is obvious. Still, we do w trade AA? And sign Perlini? We need size!

  52. Eddietheeagle, you may be right about the Maatta trade. We know he is slow but is supposed to be a good defender and make good decisions. Oh yeah, injury-prone. Will withhold judgement until December.

    Bowman doesn’t have much to show for his decision-making for a decade. Except for his 1st rd picks in 2018 and 2019, all of the others are gone. The Maatta and Nylander trades are questionable. Even a very good player like Shaw, with his known injury history, was a risky trade. If two of them don’t pan out, Bowman should be fired. If he isn’t, then the front office can be called as incompetent as the Bulls’.

  53. Clearly a lot of you guys don’t watch hockey outside of the Blackhawks.

    Nylander’s best season in the AHL was 31 points. All he’s ever shown in the NHL .32ppg and that’s after 3 years. Do you really think that’s worthy of a kid who as a defender, in his first season at the age of 19, played 38 games and put up .32ppg? Do you guys realize how rare it is for a defender at age 19 to crack the lineup let alone produce the way he did in his 1st year?

    Nylander has had 3 shots and is a forward, they develop a lot faster then D guys.

    Perlini is a better player then Nylander and that’s not saying a lot…both 1st round draft busts.

    Hawks need to send that French Canadian back to MTL….Bowman needs to go!

  54. There was no chance that 4 young, relatively undersized d-men were going to be key contributors at the same time. I believe the logic of the move is correct to use one of the d-prospects to strengthen another area. Whether we traded the right guy or got enough in return won’t be known for a few years. I will add that it doesn’t appear that Buffalo has done a very good job of developing players in recent years. Lots of high picks and not much to show for it.

  55. My apologies if this was posted. From The Hockey News FUTURE WATCH 2019 edition.

    Scout on Alexander Nylander:
    “He has not been consistent enough in his effort and attention to play without the puck.” (#slacker)
    The scout also said his value is declining. (So he’s worth Jokiharju?)

    From FUTURE WATCH 2018:
    “He has struggled on the lower lines and is often invisible.” (Perlini, say hi to your future roommate)

    His Future Watch rankings
    2017=#6
    2018= #13
    2019= #54

  56. @MS

    So what about the Hawks? What do we have to show for our picks? The only pick that’s worked out is Debrincat so far. What does that tell you? Everyone is high on Boqvist but mark my words, he’s not a top pairing guy. He’s a 2nd pairing puck moving PP D guy…much like Gus who’s a bit of a liability in his own end. If Ian Mitchell isn’t the real deal, that’s a big “if”, this trade will go down for Bowman right there with the Tuevo, Panarin, and Jammer trades. Bowman is a putz!

    Also, wouldn’t say a 6ft 193lb D guy is undersized in today’s game (Jokiharju)

    I’ll hand it to our European scouts, those guys are solid for sure but are drafting stinks.

  57. This makes you want to scream!

    Joki trade? At minimum it says SB made another draft mistake (sent him packing already?) and all of the bs about how good Joki is/was is further proof Stan should be gone!

    Tallon was allegedly fired for poor contract management…look at what the Bickell contract cost the Hawks = Panarin! No contract to Bickell and Hawks don’t send Saad to Columbus in the first place (remember Bickell wasn’t playing like a power forward LONG before anyone knew he was ill…he saw himself as a “scorer” who rarely played in front of the net…doesn’t anyone remember the complaints about his lack of physical play?). Seabrook’s contract was seen at the time as excessively long…now we can’t even sit his butt out misplaced loyalty? But Bowman gets a pass for his silly contract management; Tallon gets fired.

    BTW…2010; 2013; 2015…Cups won by Tallon core…Zero Cups with any team Bowman put together.

  58. @Peter…thank you. Seems like some of the folks on here don’t get how cup teams are built for years prior and it was done by Tallon.

    Bowman = Jammer, Panarin, Tuevo, now Jokiharju. He does get a plus for Strome, but even then I’m not sold on Strome yet…kid is slow and barely makes it through a shift before needing oxygen at the bench.

  59. Their is an excellent synopsis by Scott Powers of the Athletic on what happened to
    H-J with the Hawks. But this, to me, was very very telling.

    “Bowman is responsible for pulling the trigger on this move, but don’t think Colliton didn’t have a voice in this matter. This wouldn’t have been done if Colliton didn’t agree. He and Bowman are in constant dialogue and have been in lockstep in how the roster is being assembled. While Colliton never spoke negatively about Jokiharju and always expressed optimism about his future, you were never convinced Colliton was fully sold on Jokiharju, either. The confidence Quenneville showed in Jokiharju was rarely duplicated by Colliton.”

    To me the disappointment in the trade was, it is a straight up one-for-one.
    Nylander is close to being labeled a bust and had flamed out with the Sabres organization. The Hawks just dumped a 2nd and 3rd to re-acquire Shaw. Nylander and a 2nd rounder for Jokihariju and 5th-rounder seems like a much fairer deal.

    But hey what’s done is done.

  60. “One more note can everyone shut-up about the Seabrook contract.”

    No, because its a factor on who plays on the D. So we trade away Joki and keep Seabs…because we have no choice…because of his wage. Goes hand in hand.

    “The guy is a legend in Chicago in my opinion.”

    He is. Totally agree.

    “He has regressed but seriously anyone remember the hit on Backes, the goal in the 7th overtime game against the Red Wings???? THE MAN GOT PAID for winning cups, enough already”

    No, Knox. That’s not how it works. Basically then Kunitz should get paid 11 million. After all, he won 4 cups.

    “……Colliton is the coach and needs to manage the regression and Seabrook needs to come into camp better than last year enough said…..”

    Yup he does. But if he does regress more then I sure wish we still had Jokiharju.

  61. At first glance I hated this trade but looking at this kids tape he has some sick skills. Big and can skate, terrific stickhandling and a great shot. Plagued with some injuries. So Stan is making a bet here and we’ll find out if he wins. This is not a bottom six guy. Needs to be in a top six role and has the skills to do it.

  62. Had my say on this a couple of weeks ago, that was if they were going to keep him
    in Ahl, i hoped for Joki sake they’d trade him.
    Not the return i expected but hopefully Nylander can become an Nhl player, those hoping for some physical play from him may be disappointed.

    As far as Maatta goes that trade was mostly Pens getting needed cap space and Bowman getting needed bonus room.
    Don’t think it was much more than that.

  63. Another reminder. If the reports are correct both Sikura and Quennville received one way contracts in yr 2 of their contracts. Another bonehead signing by Bowman. Two yrs ago Bowman drafted 2 small men. He said speed is the game. St. Louis wins the cup Bowman drafts 2 giants Dach and Vladimir. Which is it Stan.

    They said Talon was fired because he didn’t manage the contract signings of Buff, Versteeg etc. Stan was the assistant Gm in charge of contracts

  64. A slow Dman is not a big problem if with the correct linemate, and if he understands how to use his body for positioning. The latter he learns with experience (Joki didn’t have, but Maatta does). Maatta can play with a more offensive minded partner, like a Gus or Keith. Paired with a slower partner, we should read that the coach is trying to use a shutdown type pairing. Pairing Gus and Keith is a mistake, in my opinion, because neither is willing to play defense first. Ask Crawford how that felt the last few years with constant odd-man breaks against and the defender was some dumb forward who got caught back-checking!!

    We need to balance our D-pairings. Gus and a more stay-at-home. Keith and a more stay-at-home. Maybe 2 less aggressive for a shutdown pair, say Murphy and Dehaan. That’s why Hammer and Oduya worked, and Seabrook and Keith worked. Seabrook sacrificed his shot to be home for Keith when Dunc ran around and pinched a lot. Seabs has lost the ability (speed) to get caught deep any more and recover. Keith struggles to catch plays. Getting old sucks. Pairings are crucial for those 2 guys. Seabs can’t handle heavy minutes day in and day out like 5 years ago. That’s where the coaches have to step in and make the correct pairings based on matchups, home vs away, and schedule. Colliton has his work cut out handling the Dmen this year. We needed to give Colliton better options. He has that with more experienced and better defensemen at his hands. We will be better defensively, but still lack a top pair.

  65. @Craig

    I think something happened with the Colliton not liking his attitude or something to the tune of that. This just makes zero sense.

  66. If Nylander was worth a flyer we should have been able to get him for Mitchell or Krys, not Joki. Why does Stan have such a boner for a guy that is clearly on the outs? After 2 years, Joki is a solid prospect whereas after 3 years Nylander is a big question mark. You don’t deal 2 in the hand for one in the bush.

  67. Eddie, the Hawks already have Jokiharju on the roster. His name is Erik Gustafsson. The Hawks, by fault of poor drafting perhaps, already had a couple players in the system that fit the Erik Karlsson mold. Joki seems like a reasonable prospect to move with the players in development. Plus Joki didn’t do that great when sent to the IceHogs. I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if this trade was an attempt to help Joki out professionally because it seems certain there wasn’t room for him on the roster unless there are multiple injuries this year. Maybe being in Buffalo will give him the opportunity to become a career long NHLer that just wasnt available to him this year on the Hawks. And yes Nylander has struggled in the AHL and trends suggest he won’t live up to his draft pick but I’m personally intrigued by his presence in the organization. There are a lot of new faces with a good level of talent this year. Stan has bolstered the defense and brought in prospects that can score.

  68. A couple of thoughts on this trade; The Hawks do a good job of drafting and developing players. The Hawks do a poor job of pro player scouting. Sorry but I’m not sold on Strome I need a bigger sample size.

    I dont think Joker is as good as everyone is thinking. That being said I have no idea how good Nylander will be. I think his brother is both over rated and over paid so cant wait for Stan for Stan to over pay Alex. I am however looking forward to Stan over paying for Joker and bringing him back in 3 years and playing him on the 1st pair. I’ll check back in the 2022 season.

  69. Eddie – If you hate our draft picks so much can you at least tell me who we should have drafted instead? Speaking of great picks by Tallon how about the TOP 10 pick trifecta of Cam Barker, Kyle Beach and Jack Skille? How about his signing of a 31 year old goalie who hasn’t won anything to a $70m 7 year contract. I am so tired of hearing about Tallon from folks who refuse to deal in facts.

    Regarding Joki I felt he was a solid prospect and I agree that he was the least undersized of the four top prospects although he appears to shy away from physical play. I also agree that it was unusual for a 19 year old to get as many games as he played last year. However, he was part of one of the worst defenses in the league and the last 15 games or so he looked badly overmatched. If he becomes a regular NHL player and Nylander doesn’t pan out it will be a horrible trade. I am a supporter of SB but I also say let’s judge him on results of these moves, not on the opinions of armchair GM’s. I believe we have a much stronger team than last year but we will only find out once the puck drops for the new season.

  70. The Tallon narrative as a genius GM who won 3 Cups for CHI just never holds up to scrutiny

    Go back and look at the rosters of the 2013 and 2015 Cup winning Hawks teams and you’ll find Bowman acquired the large majority of those players

    Yes Tallon drafted Toews and Kane and traded for Sharp – he signed Hossa but the background to that is that he wanted to sign Marty Havlat instead (according to Havlat) and was overruled by others in the organization

    He didn’t draft Buff, Keith, Seabrook, Bickell, Bolland or Crawford

    If all it took were T and K and Sharp to win a Cup (even throw Hossa in there in you want) the Hawks would have won 7 or so by now – you need a complete team, balanced and with depth – Bowman provided that for 19, 88 and 10 (and 81) by rebuilding the team after it had to be in large part torn apart after the 2010 Cup

    If you don’t like Stan fine but credit where credit is due

    That’s all I say about that

  71. Disclaimer: I’m an old school eyeball evaluator much more than a metrics evaluator. It’s not that I don’t appreciate the new analytics, it’s just I’d rather rely on what my eyes see.

    So … I think I’ve read that the new school analytics show Joki to have done pretty well in his 30-something games in the NHL. My eyes would agree that early in the season he was playing pretty well, but as the season went on it looked to me that his level of play slipped quite a bit. I think I said in the beginning of the season that he was playing OK and for a rookie d-men – OK was OK.

    But there’s more to the story, at least in regards to my expectations. Even when Joki was OK at the beginning of the season, I was a little disappointed. Maybe my expectations were too high but I expected a little more of a dynamic player and he was a little less than that. My hope that he could be a legit top-pairing guy was tempered a bit.

    Truth be told, the optimism I had for Joki was more from my heart than from my head. And as long as I’m being truthful, I should admit that the optimism I have for the other 3 horsemen is more heart felt than head felt. Hopefully they bring my head around to agreeing with my heart.

  72. Shoulder shrug. Lots of definitive opinions on two guys that can barely crack a beer at the bar. Let’s see where we are at the end of the year. What I am certain of, Joki musta slipped down the depth chart. You don’t trade a locked in top 4 dman for a project. Joki slipped and hopefully this pans out for us.

  73. @JT
    If you think Jokiharju isn’t better then Murphy or Matta or Koekko, I don’t know what the tell you other then to watch more hockey. Jokiharju was never going to be a Gus or Karlsson, he’s not that type of player. He has much more defensive responsibility then either of those guys. He’s not exactly a stay at home D guy but he’s not a pure offensive D guy either. I get the roster is crowded on D, but there are other guys to move. Beaudin, Krys, Mitchell, Murphy, even the newly acquired Maatta….none of those guys have what Jokiharju has.

    Now, if we traded him for value then okay. Like Nylander’s brother I would have been okay with, but A Nylander is a bust at this point.

  74. So we traded our youngest and strongest possession driving D for a failing prospect. No picks. No cap dump. Just one failing prospect.

    That return is infuriating. It feels like we threw in Teuvo to unload Bickell, except this time Stan forgot to unload someone.

  75. Interesting posts by all. Nice to absorb the various perspectives.

    I’ll say this for Bowman after my initial early post hours ago: will his generally keen eye for forwards override his blind eye for D men?

    We ll see.

  76. I don’t like it. Plus Byram should have been the Hawk pick at #3. No it’s not because I don’t like Dach but Byram, I believe, will be a generational D man and they are hard to find. My above comment speaks for itself with this trade. Perhaps it will work out………?

  77. Like all I was taken back by the trade. I do believe we dealt from strength to fill in weakness. By the end of the season or seasons we shall see if it was a good trade. Possibly a good trade for both teams.
    I did like Joki but thought he was out played by Boq at the WC. This trade could have been made to make room for others to come up.

  78. @Eddie, you might be right. I don’t watch enough hockey to give an “eye test” on prospects. I rely on stats so that has problems. I want to ask who made the first call? Stan or the GM in Buffalo? I have a weird feeling about this trade that I rarely get and when I’ve had this feeling it has always produced good results. This might be a net neutral trade for both teams. I will make this prediction: Perlini isn’t going to be signed by the Hawks, and Anisimov isn’t going anywhere.

  79. Almost forgot. The originals were Ollie and Arn Anderson with Nature Boy Ric Flair and Tully Blanchard. Everyone liked Arn , Ric, Tully and Barry Windham better.

  80. How people are so outraged by this trade is incredible. This is basically a coin flip for both teams. Both players are so young – it’s all speculative. Hawks have more depth at D at prospect level.

  81. The hawks had one of the worst Ds in the league last year. They’re bringing back a very similar lineup this year. What’s the motivation to move your best D prospect, especially if you passed on Byram? They gave Henri little chance to develop. And all reports suggest Nylander is a lazy head case. Sorry, you don’t trade your 2017 pick based on half a season of performance. At one point he was the top point D man on the Hawks. Makes no sense. And again, shows Stan and Mark Kelly arent so bright on scouting. What should we do if Dach struggles? Assume Stan sends him to Arizona after 1 season?

  82. @wraparound

    You are absolutely 100% incorrect. Tallon was started with the Blackhawks in 1998 as the Director of Player Development. Then was promoted to assistant general manager and finally in June 2005 GM.

    If you think Tallon had nothing to do with Crow (drafted in 2003), Keith (drafted in 2002), Seabs (drafted in 2003), Buf (drafted in 2003), Jammer (drafted in 2005), and of course Toews and Kane you are sorely mistaken. Not to mention, he kept that band together.

    McDonough and Tallon didn’t get along so McIdiot demoted Tallon and promoted idiot Bowman. Tallon of course left soon after.

  83. Well i guess it is what it is. Hope Boqvist
    breaks camp on roster with Dehaan out for until November some time, rather than a Koekkoek and Dahlstrom rotation.

    Ms lol my choice Perlini for a grittier bottom 6 guy hopefully. Though the comments Bowman made about Sikura being a big part of the future sound eerily like what he said about Panarin, Hino, Hartman, Schmaltz and Joki, so wouldn’t be shocked on him going either.

    You would think Anisimov would be logical guy to make cap room but also starting to wonder if we’ll see a ltir move similar to what we saw a couple of years ago. Maybe a lower salary guy on seaoning opening ltir like Tootoo and Rozival, allowing them to be 1m or so over cap. Then opening day Dehaan maybe be put on ltir and have until he comes back to sort things out and not have to make a cap dump before the season starts.

  84. Well, of course, immortalizing Tallon is naturally where this discussion should go.

    Congrats.

  85. @Trip, because Joki wasn’t our best d prospect. He was a d prospect that wasn’t living up to expectations.

  86. I’m up in the air about this trade. The best part about it is that this might clear the way for Adam Boqvist whom I think is the Hawks best young defenseman by far. He was sick for the London Knights last season, scoring 4 goals in one game and 20 goals, 40 assists for the season. Offensively, he is a constant nuisance making opposing teams think there are four forwards out there, if only he’d shore up his defense more. As for Nylander. Good pedigree. PHENOMENOL You Tube highlights. Few if any current Hawks can do the stuff he can do. However, his number are anemic ala Jurco. Coaches will need to motivate! I wouldn’t mind dumping another defenseman for that matter. Beaudin was an otherworldly +60.

  87. @Trip, please provide the reports that state Alexander Nylander is a “Lazy head case”. You might be falling prey to fake news.

  88. Actually it looks like StanBow is trying to build a winning team in Rockford. I’m not being funny. The Icehogs were not that good last season and weren’t the talent incubator that an NHL team AHL affiliate is supposed to be. Now with so many prospects those who don’t make the Hawks roster will be sent down to Rockford which will now have a team of more talented, developing players for the Hawks to draw upon as needed. Last season the Icehogs had little offensive talent in their corps of forwards. This year there will be guys who can be called up and make a positive impact.

  89. We are in a much better position than the L.A. Kings. Be thankful of that. The Ducks are dead too. How many years of peak performance do Toews and Kane have? I appreciate the fact that Stan has tried to give them an opportunity to shine before they age out of the league.

  90. Based on reading this thread I have to say I am quite surprised by some of the viewpoints…

    I didn’t realize that Jokiharju was the expected savior of the Blackhawks. Based on what I saw last year he struggled immensely near the end of his tenure with the hawks and in Rockford. So now it’s time to start bashing the General Manager for making such a horrendous trade because he dealt from a position of depth within the defensive prospects where we have at least 2 if not more guys that were in front of Jokiharju in the depth chart of defensive prospects. And he acquired a guy that has not lived up to expectations in a bad situation, playing for a rough organization that has and continues to lack talent and development on all facets of the game of hockey. Sounds like Nylander really had a good chance to succeed, NOT! Give the kid a chance, jeez. Maybe the change of scenery and some mentors can turn him around. Is there anyone that doesnt think he has talent, go look at his tapes. He was drafted 8 overall for a reason. Just throw him under the bus before he even has a chance to play.

    Glad the people on here aren’t coaching or running any hockey organizations because those organizations wouldn’t be around long. When making trades you have to deal from depth to fill holes. Is any trade a guarantee, no. Does this one hold a bit more risk, who knows. On paper it would appear so, but no one here is at practice or sitting in on the conversations that are being had, everything is conjecture. Stop looking at everything so personally and look at it objectively. We had a strength in defensive prospects, Jokiharju was on the lower end of those, and dealt to acquire a guy who would bolster the offensive prospect pool. From a pure potential and ceiling standpoint, I will take Nylander every time. We already have two guys with higher upside and ceiling over Jokiharju on defense.

  91. Talking about how the small D can play defense. I remember a coach, forget who now saying. Don’t into the boards and try to check somebody 30 or 40 lbs heavier, you’ll make a fool of yourself. Go in and check their stick, you’ll always outweigh it and their useless without it.

  92. Guys, pump your breaks. This might be a huge steal.
    I have been following the Nylander brothers for some time. Ask anyone from Sweden, everyone would agree saying Alex been the biggest talent w the highest ceiling..hands down! This might be exactly what Alex needed. 2 years ago in the WC, he was the MVP on a pretty stacked Swedish team (Landeskog, F.Forsberg). I’m excited!

  93. @Young Fan ? Yes. Things can still go wrong for the Hawks but at least they’re taking chances in positions of strength. Alex Nylander might amount to nothing but they traded for him with reason and I tend to think Stan fired Q so he would have a better relationship with Colliton. Maybe its all for not. I tend to think they have a plan. Whether or not that plan bears fruit is yet to be seen.

  94. @Eddie – Unless I’m mistaken the GM makes the decisions – your argument desperately trying to credit Saint Dale for drafting certain players like Keith for example that he didn’t draft because he wasn’t GM at the time is 100% incorrect

    He would have had input – that’s all – just like Mark Eaton current Hawks Director of Player Development or Norm McIver current Hawks Assistant GM would have input on drafting Dach or DeBrincat but it wasn’t their decision and therefore they don’t get the credit

  95. What I see the Hawks leadership doing is gaining high end talent for mid-level talent (Schmaltz/Henri). These 10 are a balance of strong Off and Def of talent. This looks like the second coming of a hawks team like Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook. I actually like the move to get Nylander, I am just confused why Buffalo can’t seem to get their top talent to play at a high level much like Edmonton and Arizona cant either.

    1. Kirby Dach
    2. Adam Boqvist
    3. Alex Nylander
    4. Nicolas Beaudin
    5. Aleksi Saarela
    6. Ian Mitchell
    7. Philipp Kurashev
    8. Evan Barratt
    9. Alex Vlasic
    10. MacKenzie Entwistle

    These 10 prospects bring excitement for the future. As long as the Top Two lines of Toews/kane and DCat/Strome continue to produce, the future Hawks team looks like they have retooled for a second run at 1-3 cup runs. All we need is either Crawford/Lehner to mind the nets and maybe a future prospect.

  96. Demo/JT/Silent/MS, your posts/thoughts are good air.

    ER, thought the Four Horsemen were a good name. Didnt think we would make this many moves already and more to come, not just this summer. I am for what ever trade ufas that get us good players and players that work better with the new team system.

    For Nylander he could be good with us. BUF is a bottom 5 organization. Bkackhawks are still top organization in NHL. Had work to do to get roster back top top team and are working on it.

    Mostly I trust Our scouts more then any others, so I also am intreged by this, even though I like the Four Horsemen am fine with whats best for roster reload making it deep.

    Deep is what we want, any way we have to do it.

  97. Swede- I dont doubt he has talent but his value was depreciating so I don’t get why GM had to give up Joki for him. Chad Krys sounds aboot right.

    ER- Im the same as far as analytics go with exception of Corsi. I do agree Joki’s play was slipping towards the end of his stay in the nhl but hes young so it was almost expected.

    JT- Joki hasnt lived up to expectations? Lol funny. He made the team at age 19 last year.
    Also you ask where does this Nylander equals lazy come from. Its mentioned a few times in reports. I even posted a quote here earlier in these comments.

    Saying all this, I do hope the trade pans out but was surprised to read no Bowman 1st round picks have played two full seasons in Chicago.
    Yikes! So in 2021 Dach is traded I guess. ;)

  98. I still think Dach starts the year in a Blackhawks Sweater

    Kane/Toews/Kubalik
    DKat/Strome/Nylander
    Saad/Dach/Shaw
    Kampf/Carpenter/Caggs

    13th: Sikura or Perlini or Wedin

    I hope they sign and trade Perlini and AA. I also hope Seabrook and Dahlstrom rotate on the DEF with Murphy on the other side.

  99. All of this is hilarious. This is the most active “chat” on this site since the draft. I have a feeling we have collectively made a perfect prognostication on who will be where and what role the will have.

  100. Aurora, that Tallon comment got my drink all over the desk.

    Well, of course, immortalizing Tallon is naturally where this discussion should go.
    Congrats.

    TX, that is 10 good young players right there. Listing those 10 players makes you feel good about how many players we have coming and can trade with.

  101. Anyone know if Carpenter played center or lrwing in SAN/VEG and in juniors. Being right hand shot, makes you wonder who will play center 40 or 64.

  102. @Wraparound

    You clearly don’t understand to think the GM makes all the decisions. The Director of Player Development is critical to develop prospects; look at what Tallon touched in that role. The Assistant GM is responsible for working directly with the GM on all decisions. Tallon moved up the ranks for a reason, you’d be foolish to think that’s not the case. You’d also be foolish not to know about the drama when Tallon was demoted due to the Predisent McIdiot. Players who left the Hawks after that move, took the covers off of what happened; you can read all about it.

    You’re also foolish if you believe what “beat writers” write about all the hawks moves. They will never come straight out and bash the Hawks management…why? They lose their access to the Hawks if they do that. No beat writer hammers on any moves a team makes that they cover, they need to play “nice”. Clearly, in The Athletic article you posted, Buf got a B+ and Hawks a B-….that’s the “nice” version. Anyone who knows both these players well enough, has followed more teams then just the Hawks, knows Nylander is a bust at this point. You don’t go from .5ppg in the AHL and jump into the NHL especially as a top 6 player. Think a worse version of Perlini…that is what Nylander is worth TODAY. Jokiharju at a year younger has hands down shown more, anyone who argues that doesn’t know hockey.

    Stan is taking on former 1st round picks that other teams are throwing away…Perlini, Strome, Connor Muprhy, Nylander. He’s trying to find lightning in a bottle which is fine, but when the cost is someone like Hammer or Jokiharju, time to take the rosy glasses off and call Bowman for what he is…a moron.

  103. The rationale of trading Joker to make room for another prospect is ridiculous. If the goal is to open a roster spot, I count 6 better options on our backend to trade than Joker.

    Name one GM who wouldn’t trade Maatta and Nylander for Kahun and Jokiharju, plus 2M in cap space.

    Both of those trades are absolutely brutal.

  104. Okay. Jokiharju is gone. Nylander is in. A RW. How about a 3rd line of Saad-Dach-Nylander? I don’t know how physical Nylander is, but let’s see how this shakes out. What defensemen will stand out? What forwards will make the squad? How will the O lones look? Gonna be a REALLY interesting camp.

  105. Great post by LOAGS at 7:40pm. Yes, Seabs WAS a great player, but no more. You don’t play someone for their past. Unless you don’t care about winning.

    We just traded a player with great Corsi numbers and some history of very good play with the Hawks, Hogs, and Finland. The player we acquired has no such resume in three years. Time will tell, but am getting tired of reading comments about “change of scenery.” For now, we lost the trade.

  106. For the “do something Stan” crowd, that’s 5 trades and 2 free agent signings since mid-June.

    Blue Line Prospect Depth Chart :

    Left : Right:

    Gilbert. Boqvist
    Beaudin. Mitchell
    Carlsson
    Krys
    Vlasic

  107. @Craig

    The do something crowd assumes Bowman will do INTELLIGENT things. That defensive prospect list sure looks a lot better with Byram and Jokiharju.

  108. Yea we wont really know for a yr, 2 yrs on this but from a on paper standpoint analytics stuff, this trade is a loss.

    Though on paper the Maata trade is a win. Haan trade is a win. Shaw trade is a win. Ufas are a win.

    Now we have to see how the team plays, with a full roster and a bunch of players with size speed and that are good at D, in the new system. We really havnt seen the new system with a full roster and players that are tailored to it.

    I was happy with every move this summer except this but I think Nylander could be good otherwise we gave away one of our four torpedos.

  109. Craig agree Bowman is doing something, but the acqusitions are all high risk. Hate to be negative but, i like Lehner but alot of speculation it was Trotzs handling and system. Maatta just a convient move for both teams businesswise, might be useful as partner for Boqvist though. Dehaan going to miss 4 to 6 weeks right off, can help alot if he plays regularly.

    Shaw a popular move but with injury risks, Nylander not even sure if he can be a Nhl player at this point. Carpenter was a solid signing who should help pk and 4c taking key fos.

    Even Strome, got a fresh start reunited with his best friend and boyhood idols, in a no pressure to win situation. This seas9n there is expectations to win and pressure. Hopefully he responds positively but still needs to show he can before being a sure thing yet. Plus the core another older. Love the potential but just as many questions too. Type of team get in playoffs they’ll have a chance but sttruggle with too many of these issues in this division they might not.

  110. Hey Ian, you really know how to depress a guy with that last post. Good call on the H.J. trade. You must be part of the front office to be able to come up with that one. Hull65, you had the Dach draft pick from the beginning. It all comes down to how Dach performs in the end. Was he worthy to be a top three pick? All these other guys we are stewing over are bottom six forwards and H. J. Is not a number one d-man.

  111. Just doing a date check here … de Haan had surgery in mid-late May and the recovery time projection was 4-6 months … so just using my fingers, I’ll count off 6 months … June, July, August, September, October, November. If he needs only 4 months, he won’t anytime. If he needs the full 6 months, he will return in mid-late Novermber. de Haan missing 4-6 weeks is not a certainty.

  112. This banter back and forth has been the most entertaining thing I’ve read in a very long time. And it provides me a lot of happiness during an otherwise mundane week.

    Three main points I have taken away from this are:
    1. We are all very passionate about our team
    2. The Tallon vs. Bowman thing is a HUGE button that a lot of people like to push, and it will never, ever cease
    3. To quote Tom Petty, “The waiting is the hardest part”–we’re just going to have to see how it all plays out

  113. We know noting about the Nylander except his name.We cant judge him now …we have to wait and see what is the plan for the next years.
    Remind me of Strome when he arrive with the Hawks ..so many guys here where disapointed to see The Ugly trade, so many negative comment at the time ….but nobody knew him ..and he had played less then 40 games in Nhl …Now Stome is a big plus for the Hawks
    I beleive in the Colliton system and he really has another way of coaching …we saw what he did in Rockford in a short time..
    And remember that both …Toews and Kane had their best season ..Hawks will make the playoff next year …90% sure
    Love my new Hawks .. new blood, new attitude, new players, with new coaches …everything i was hoping for …now its almost done .

  114. @Eddie – I’m not going to waste a lot of time responding – you have your belief regarding Tallon but if we use your argument about Tallon’s influence in roles other than GM then we have to do the same for Bowman

    Bowman was Director of Hockey Operations when Toews was drafted and Assistant GM when Kane was drafted and has worked for the Blackhawks since 2001 gradually moving up the ranks to GM in 2009

    I think you would agree that it would be foolish to give Stan much credit for Toews and Kane (even though he was there in the front office) just as it is foolish to give much credit to Dale for Buff, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford etc. players drafted when either Mike Smith or Pulford was the GM

    If you listen to or read what former GMs say about the nature of their jobs they all say that as GM you take input from various people but you as GM make the final call – the final decision, not the Dir. of Player Development, not the Asst. GM, not the Director of Hockey Operations but the GM

    The GM is responsible for the NHL roster and receives the blame or credit for it – that’s the way an NHL front office works – it’s impossible to know what influence others may have had on desicions – all we know is who makes the final decision and that’s the GM

    Sorry but for you to exaggerate and extrapolate Tallon’s influence when he wasn’t GM because it suits your personal agenda of Tallon love and Bowman hate is not a fact based opinion nor an argument worthy of any more discussion

  115. 2010 good post and hope your 100% right. I don’t understand though how you take a high rated prospect, undermine his confidence to the point of blocking his development at Nhl level and knock him down the depth charts, lessen his market value if you want to trade him. Something in that just bothers me.

  116. This trade is very concerning to me. It smells of desperation and lack of patience, like a GM trying to save their job with a short-sighted trade. Picking up the experience D-men filled the slot for Joki. Are Maata, de Haan or Seabrook part of a future cup winning team? Joki while not great was not all that bad in 38 game, he was a little over matched at times but managed to put up 12 points as a 19 year old. At 19 Joki has not done anything to persuade anyone that he does not have the potential to grow into a top 4 defensemen.

    What caught my attention was Nylander’s lack of stand out production in the AHL. In Rochester he had 165 games with 86 points over 3 seasons. Not what I would expect from a #8 draft pick forward. The 2 guys draft before and after Nylander all have over 140 games of NHL experience each. Looks like he is either a late bloomer, lazy or an underachiever.

    Joki on the over hand has 30 AHL games and 17 point. The same % point production but from the blue line as Nylander. In addition, Joki was over a point a night his last season in the WHL.

    Joki has more value than a first round reclamation project which Nylander seems to be trending toward. SB did not get equal value for Joki. Nylander has under achieved and this trade was done because SB can not manage player development. Do not be surprised if Nylander performs in Rockford at some point next season. SB has got to go before more, young highly drafted d-man prospects are traded away for other teams draft disappointments. I really hope I am wrong but the “One Goal” seems to be save SB verses building a team capable of competing for a Cup.

  117. Ian – I’m a bit surprised at your “glass half empty” post. I don’t tend to look too much at each individual deal. SB (and JC) are under the gun to show significant improvement in the team. I think all would agree that standing pat with last years team would be a disaster. SB has made a lot of changes – if we do not see real improvement his job may well be in jeopardy. When you make changes you have to take risks and some will not pan out. I absolutely disagree with those who say the changes are driven by panic or desperation. There are probably many who would have rather signed bread man for 7 years at $11m which really would have been a disaster. I think there is very good logic to the changes. If they work we have improved out team defense through a stronger d-core, stronger back-up goalie and better size and grit in the bottom six. Those were all key weaknesses of the team last year. We didn’t give up a whole lot of assets in these deals. One think I think everyone can agree on – this has not been a dull summer!

  118. @MS – agreed on all points and they seem to have improved the PK as well, another key weakness from last year which lost them points in the standings for sure

  119. The Strome/Perlini trade was different.

    Strome was playing well in the AHL.
    Perlini scored 17 goals in a season in the NHL

    That’s something that you could see. Nylander you see nothing so far. So its not the same.

    Also, there were observations that the coach in Arizona, for whatever reason, didn’t seem to like Strome and put him with players where he wasn’t set up to succeed. Does this sound familiar? *cough Joki *cough

    And finally, I keep hearing rumours of an extension for Bowman this summer.

    Why?

    Wait until this season plays out and then you can make that decision. Doesn’t that make more sense?

  120. If you read or believe in the Hockey News. I went back and read the draft guides from 2016 as well as 2017 + Future Watch in 2017, 2018 and 2019. By their account, Nylander was a blue chip high end prospect, rated higher than Joki as recently as 2018. Only in 2019, when Joki made the Hawks and Nylander started regressing did that change. That’s why I think Stan should have held out for at least a 3rd round draft pick + Nylander in this deal.

    One other aspect to consider. Stan is trying to move Anisimov and Buffalo needs a Center. The Hawks still owe Anisimov his $2 Million bonus(mid July I was told by my contact). Might Anisimov be headed to Buffalo once that’s paid ? Was Joki really part of the sweetener ?

  121. Craig- If true then why the hold up on the bonus payment? Not like Wirtz is hurting for cash. Sounds like fake news.

  122. 2010, yea good post. Thats what were doing then we need to do it, the full way. Get the kind/style of players that are ideal for the new team system and players tailored to it. In addition to fillling the roster with size and spped and players that are good at D and good at passing. Thats exactly what Bowman and crew have done this summer.

    I would have kept Buckaroo but theres always going to be a move that you donot like.

  123. Keep in mind in all of this, that Colliton was not a fan of Joki. After the deHaan trade Stan announced he had his 8 defensemen set for 2019.

  124. Craig all signing bonuses are due Julty 1st, even if traded its the Blackhawks respomsibility now, regardless whether it has actually been paid yet or not.

    MS don’t like being negative either, hoping for the best.

  125. “Keep in mind in all of this, that Colliton was not a fan of Joki. After the deHaan trade Stan announced he had his 8 defensemen set for 2019.”

    I had noticed that but read it as Joki isnt a regular yet

    Another read between the lines is Bowman has mentioned more than once that he needs cap space for Debrincat and Strome next year. He never mentions re-signing Gustafsson who is a UFA next summer.

  126. So many great posts. Here is something I just read about Nylander from the Daily Herald:

    “A Swedish native, Nylander helped his country to a silver medal at the 2018 IIHF World Junior Championship. He was named as a Top Three Player on Sweden after sharing the team lead with seven points during the tournament. At the 2017 World Juniors, Nylander was named to the tournament’s All-Star Team, sharing first among all skaters with 12 points (5G, 7A) in seven games. He had nine points (4G, 5A) in seven games at the 2016 World Junior Championships, while also helping Sweden to a silver medal at the 2016 IIHF U18 World Championship. Nylander’s 28 points (10G, 18A) in 21 career U20 World Junior Championship games shares fourth in Team Sweden history.”

    So, Nylander has shown elite skill in IIHF tournaments. As I posted earlier, maybe it is Buffalo’s second-rate organization which has not developed him. We can only hope that he develops in RFD and can be brought up late this season or next.

    To repeat: If Nylander develops into a 3rd line reliable player, no complaints. Assuming Joki is a 2nd pairing, to me, this would be an even trade.

  127. Regarding Southsides comment …the Hawks do a good job drafting and developing n.h.l. players …Are you nuts ..we have 4 players on the roster drafted by us since 2008 -9 …4 players out of 50 plus draft picks ..2 included are Saad and Shaw .

    This team lacks the ability to draft ,scout and develop young players .
    This trade is another example of piss poor development .

  128. 2010 i would like to know why if all the no.1 picks were traded before the draft it would be considered destroying the team but wait a year and trade them, it’s an astute way to do business. I can see a couple not working out, but every top pick for the last 8 years, i’m missing something.

  129. 2010, I agree that from 2009-2015 the Hawks have done a poor job of drafting and developing players (exception: Saad). However, things appear to be turning around:

    2016 – DCat
    2017 – Joki
    2018 – Boq and Beau
    2019- Dach

    Several lower round picks are looking good, such as Barratt, Mitchell, Kurashev, Entwistle, Lakinen, Gravel.

    In reading up on Nylander today, he has a lower floor and higher ceiling than Joki. May take a year or so to find out if he is an NHL player. Great skater, stickhandler, passer, with soft hands and a good shot. Deficiencies: Not strong on the puck, doesn’t battle for the puck, weak checker. He will be a good test to find out if the Hawks can develop him. I can’t imaging him being called up from RFD for at least a half season. Am optimistic that he will make the team next spring or fall.

    We’re also going to find out how successful player development is in helping Strome improve his skating. People post that he is slow, but more accurately he is not quick. Slow reaction time is the problem.

  130. Sorry Ian …facts are facts …Stans off his rocker and proof in the pudding …you do NOT build a team through the draft !

  131. Hmmm…I have to admit, I struggle building the rationale for this trade. I think it boils down to this: roster transformation to fit a style of play that is different than last year. I like Nylander as a low risk/high upside acquisition, but the cost seems high trading the better today player with a similar upside. Just not sure about this one.

  132. Apparently the Hawks cant even sustain a team through the draft .
    To much knee jerk reaction from Stan …i get the feeling he has to many people talking in his ears .

  133. Well even if we got robbed, in that Buckaroo is a better player then Nylander. Nylander becomes a good FW with that skill and speed at 190, then fine.

    There has to be more then just trade players in this, thats why it doesnt make as much sense as it should. Our scouts are better then every other team so I think it could be good. Who knows, this trade somes down to when were deep again in 2 yrs and we have a deep, quality deep roster. Is Nylander in the top 9?

  134. Maybe Bowman and crew want the Blackhawks in the news every wk of summer. We have made a trade, draft, trade, ufas, trade every wk since mid june.

  135. More people are talking about this then the draft or any other trade ufas we did. Which all were good. Why people talk about the not good more.

  136. Joker and Seabrook for Nyquist is a win for us. Joker for Nyquist and a second round pick is a fair trade. Joker for Nyquist? Come on man!

    I like the idea of reclaiming former high picks and buying low on them. But not when you trade one who was doing much better than expected at 19. 19!!! At our position of greatest weakness by far.

    To quote the millennials, I literally can’t even bruh. It’s bad. It’s really really bad.

  137. Glad millennials can at least read and write… pretty sure the guy we got is named Nylander, not Nyquist.

    C’mon bruh!

  138. The only real upside i see taking flyer Nylander and it may be a reach, is that Jokiharju would have required protection in expansion draft. Now with his spot and future capspace in 2 years time clear, maybe theres room to acquire a top end player a team needs to unload ahead of the draft at reasonable cost.

  139. I always see a lot of bashing of Stan from us Monday Morning QB’s. Let me add some logic here. The trade of Henri for Nylander could be a disasterous one. No doubt about that. However, Henri was at best going to be the 4th defender as I like Boqvist, Mitchell, and Beaudin and think they have more upside plus the recent pick of Alex Vlasic only added more talent. The Hawks cant get rid of Seabrooks contract with Murphy playing the same Right side, the only option was either Henri or Gus. Why Gus? He was a stud on the power play and Henri is probably about as good as Maaati or Murphy. Now Henri, could get a lot better. Now to Nylander. Having Toews and Kane on any roster sets us apart from most teams not named Crosby/Malkin. Connor McDavid is SuperStar galore but does not make those around him better. You put either Kane or Toews with a player and they immediately have the chance to excel. For God sake, Toews made Kahun look good. I expect Nylander and Dach with Strome and Dcat to bring a second wave of 1-3 opportunites to bring Lord Stanley back. Also, just goes to show how valuable Hossa was to this team. What an amazing player who really does not get the accolades he deserves. Give this tea a chance, we have much more high end talent this year than we have had since our last championship.

  140. We are all stating our feelings, which is great to see how fans view a team and the way it goes about the business of trying to build a winner. I take a look at other teams and see what they have done. How many of their own 1st rounders and other rounds draft pick did Stl have?
    I look at Vanc and see they kept Daniel and Hendrick (1,2). Had Umberger 1st, Bieska 5th, Kessler, Schnieder, Grabner all 1s. Have Horvat Gaunce Virtanen Boeser Petterson . So they kept some and traded some #1 draft picks.
    My point is that one team won it’ first Cup and the other hasn’t won one yet. I am glad that I have been at 3 winning Stanley Cup Finals and one losing one from my team. It is all a crap shoot. Can’t wait till the next seasons play out with the trades I agreed with and the trades that I don’t agree with.

  141. This was a big risk for SB. High risk high reward. If the Hawks miss the playoffs I think Stan gets fired. That being said I dont think they will miss the playoffs. Lehner is good goalie and will continue to be a good goalie. His addition should add another 5 to 10 wins from last years team which squarely puts them in the playoffs but the central is no joke. ATTENTION HAWKS FANS***** Nobody wants Seabrook or Artem Anisimov that’s what happens when a GM signs a player to a bad contract. Both of these contracts were bad the day they were inked.

  142. Pro for the trade

    Jokiharju had a flaw of leaning one way on defense and the league exploded it.
    He was their third right handed defenseman behind Boqvist and Mitchell.
    The league is getting much bigger and he is in a small pro frame.
    He makes a crap marshmallow sandwich compared to the 8 year old girl.
    Who needs a Boqvist look alike that doesn’t give his all.

    Con against the trade

    Preferred Buffalo’s 1st round pick or second.
    Preferred Jokiharju was used as a sweetener to dump a bad contract.

    Conclusion

    Bowman has 3 slots to fill with no more than 2 million dollars in cap space. Why he would add more salaries and not trade bad contracts is beyond me. It may be his undoing!

  143. Can´t believe we traded young Henri with U18, U20 gold medals AND a gold medal at the men´s worlds in Slovakia for a guy with no attitude.
    Nylander has zero compete level, no desire, shrinks back from any sort of physical contact. I don´t care how much talent this kid has if he has zero character. Must run in the family. We all know our Hawks with character: Hjalmarsson, Burish, etc.
    His brother Will isn´t much different in that regard. He´d rather sit out an entire year and hurt his team because he´s a greedy, selfish guy. Money over a championship.
    Alex will never amount to an NHL player, but assume he does: he will want a ludicrous amount of money and term..so this trade will haunt us whether Alex turns the corner or not.
    Joki will become a top 4 d-man. I´ll go so far as to say that he will become a true No.2 guy with Dahlin as their No.1. No coach is perfect, but I´d trust Coach Q in his evaluation of Joki.
    This horrible trade will cost us dearly.
    Look at our depth chart on d: No.3 Keith; No.4: Maatta, DeHaan; No.5 Smurf, Gustafsson; No.6 Dahlstrom, Seabrook No.7: Koekkoek
    Good night Irene

  144. You can dispute us getting fair market value for 28 but let’s not make him to be the next coming of Makar. He isn’t our best d prospect nor our best right handed d prospect. This could be a huge win or a mild bust, meaning Joker becomes the capable #3 or 4 defensemen for Buffalo that his trajectory suggests.

    Only way this is a bomb is if Joker becomes a solid 1 or 2 and Nylander is a bust.

  145. Hawk One i gues the only market value that matters is how Nylander performs.
    Regardless of that hope Joki has a long and great career in Buffal9 or wherever else he maybe goes.

  146. Agree with Andrew Raven. If he does pan out, he will want the moon like his brother and the hawks won’t be able to afford him. It’s great to have talent but you need heart and character which Nylander has not shown. Look at what they said about Saad, once he gets the big contract he won’t care. They were right

  147. If he pans out, he’ll want the moon.

    So!?!?

    If Joki becomes a top pairing guy, he’ll want the moon.

    Guys want the moon, when they pan out.

    Yawn.

  148. TAB, In case you missed it former Hawk Greg Johnson past away this past week.
    His number at UND far surpassed the Captain’s and he did not have that bad of a pro career either.

  149. Aurora Hawk-nice reality check. People get so bent out of shape and want to be heard with the extreme view. Bottom line is we don’t know how this will pan out and it certainly isn’t the end of the world.
    (and to think you can put ‘brothers’ in a box and say they are all the same is ridiculous, and yes people care about money-it happens)
    Next.

  150. I hear Hossa’s name come up and smile knowing what a terrific 2-way player he was and such an incredible asset to the team. Wouldn’t he be a valuable coach/mentor in some capacity to these big power forwards- teaching them that 2-way game, being physical when you need to be, but really grinding out shift after shift. Getting 6’1”, 6’2”, 6’3” or 4” forwards who DON’T/WON’T grind it out, with their strength and size would be a travesty.
    Can’t wait till training camp!!

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