Huge Day From Toews, Kane Lead Blackhawks To Victory

A couple short years ago the Capitals and Blackhawks playing a matinee at the United Center would have been an ideal nationally televised matchup.

But the Caps came in having lost their last four and the Hawks had lost their last five on Sunday. And even though Washington is still the reigning Stanley Cup champions, right now this game was just a tougher sell.

That’s okay. There were still elite players on the ice, and did they ever put on a show.

Washington came out strong but the Hawks struck first. Brandon Saad made what might be his best individual play of the season to get Chicago on the board.

David Kampf was credited with the only assist on the Saad goal.

Patrick Kane was next on the list. He scored his 28th of the season 80 seconds later.

Jonathan Toews started his big day with an assist on Kane’s first of the day. Brent Seabrook was also credited with an assist.

Brooks Orpik cut the lead in half at 14:25 but Toews “scored” his first of the day less than 30 seconds later.

Washington out-shot the Hawks 15-9 in the first but Chicago held a 3-1 lead.

Because of course.

Alex DeBrincat scored his 25th of the season at 2:30 into the second period and that was it for Braden Holtby.

Holtby got the hook after allowing four goals against 12 shots. Enter Pheonix Copley.

Dmitry Orlov scored at 15:24 to cut the Blackhawks lead back to two as things started to get increasingly physical. Tom Wilson, noted dirtball, started running at people – including Kane. Alex Ovechkin also made sure to give Kane a whack every time he was within reach as the game progressed.

The Blackhawks out-shot the Capitals 12-9 in the second and took a 4-2 lead to the third period.

John Carlson cut the lead to 4-3 three minutes into the third period. This has been a time when the Hawks have fallen apart in recent games, but on Sunday the home team responded quickly with purpose once again. Kane scored a power play goal 36 seconds after the Carlson goal to push the lead back to two.

At 7:20 Toews scored his 20th of the season to make the lead three.

Those goals became important because the defense wasn’t doing much for Chicago. Carlson scored again at 10:38 and then Matt Niskanen scored at 13:55 to cut the lead back to one. All five of Washington’s goals had come from defensemen while Chicago was relying on their stars up front.

Toews and Kane weren’t done, though. Kane set up Toews for his third of the day 62 seconds after the Niskanen goal to give the Blackhawks a 7-5 lead.

Toews was up to five points in the game.

Dylan Strome scored into the empty net with 1:49 showing on the clock off a nice chip from DeBrincat. The goal, added to two assists, gave Strome three points in the game. Kane added an assist on the Strome goal for his fifth point of the day.

The only Blackhawks defensemen to skate more than 20 minutes were Connor Murphy and Carl Dahlstrom. Slater Koekkoek skated 15:58, the lowest total on the blue line, but led the team with six hits.

Toews finished plus-four and won 11 of 17 faceoffs with six shots on net. Kane was plus-five with five shots on net.

Collin Delia stopped 34 of 39.

The Blackhawks had scored 17 goals during their five-game losing streak coming into Sunday and promptly hung eight on Washington. Ovechkin, who was shadowed a lot by Dahlstrom, was held to two shots on net.

153 thoughts on “Huge Day From Toews, Kane Lead Blackhawks To Victory

  1. Toews 3 goals Kane 2 Debrincat & Saad 1 each. That’s top flight top six forwards.

    What about the bottom six? All year long? Disgraceful. Hull65 posts a lot of material, lots of it superfluous. Lots of it in anger. Lots of to disregard. But he made an excellent point recently — Pittsburgh has been in the playoffs and competitive every season with Crosby & Malkin the last dozen years plus.
    That’s a credit to their GM.

    On the other hand, Bowman completely dropped the ball the last three years putting capable forwards in the bottom six. He went on a publicity tour when the Hawks won a few games in a row. Shameful, and shameful to waste Kane & Toews for another season.

  2. @ Iceman

    Compare the Blackhawks to the other 29-30 teams over the past roughly dozen years if that is the lens you wish to use. Hardly shameful or disgraceful.

    Last year and this year? Bad. That is why you are seeing this remodel, a new system, a new coach. But I suspect that does not fit your narrative or the other guy you mention who ranted at Strome in the other thread – after Strome had three points today.

    Some astute comments in these parts, some other comments not so much.

  3. Not positive, but I believe Kane and Toews are the first ever team mates to each score twenty plus goals in twelve straight seasons for the same team. Regardless of the Hawks place in the standings, we as Fans have been fortunate to have them around.

  4. It was disappointing to see Delia’s inner Jeff Glass show up on those first two goals. On the other three he was helpless and the Hawks defense was exposed. But if you can shoot high, you can score on Delia and most goaltenders in the league. He was exceptional early in the game before the softies (softy is too mild of a word). Not much you can say about Toews and Kane and the amazing games that they had. They had some things go their way that often won’t. But it was still excellent. Washington is not playing well but it is nice to get the two points to reverse this losing streak. This is not a turning point. The Hawks are still a mediocre team.

  5. When the Hawks can use speed and possession to outpace the other team, they do well. Problem is so other teams (Washington not included) are playing faster then the Hawks and that is when the Hawks problems start. Watch the majority of games they lose, it’s when they are outpaced. They controlled this game for the most part and you can see the Hawks were outpacing Washington.

    That said, bringing in at least one top line winger (Panarin like) with speed and solidifying a top draft pick that can play in the 1st 3 lines that is quick, will change this team. Not saying it’s a cup team again but will at least put the Hawks in the playoffs. Add to it speed on the backend with Boqvist coming up and insuring you pair up your speed players with a anchor stay at home guy and this team will become much more dangerous again.

    Keith – Jokiharju
    Gus – Murphy
    Seabs – Boqvist
    Dahlstrom/Krys/Mitchell….as your 7th man and AHL guys.

    That’s how you mix it up between offensive and defensive pairings.

    That said, I understand the reason to sit Jokiharju and let him develop, but when Koeki is your slot in guy for Jokiharju that is dangerous as he’s not good period.

    Also, please stop playing Kruger and Kunitz. I understand they are trade bait but those guys are doing nothing to help the young guys and the 3rd and 4th lines develop. All other GM’s know what those two can do so showcasing right now with the Hawks focusing on the next season is just dumb. Bring Johnson back, play Perlini, bring up Ejdsell, bring up Fortin, and keep playing Hayden and Kampf. We need to see which of these guys are worth re-signing as RFA’s as they are all, besides hayden, RFA’s. My bet is only a couple are worth signing, so the others package up with Kunitz and Kruger to get any draft picks they can back even if that means a 5th rounder.

    I’m starting to think you may want to keep Anisimov around. The Hawks can bring in Panarin without moving AA and draft another top 6. while still being comfortable under the cap. Anisimov on the 3rd line is not bad at all. He’s playing smart hockey.

    Saad – Toews – Kaapo
    Panarin – Strome (Anisimov) – Kane
    Kahun – Anisimov (Strome) – Debrincat
    Perlini – Kampf – Hayden
    Kurashev/Barratt…which of these two step into the lineup next year.

    This is not at all a bad front 4 lines. I also think if we grab Hughes, you play him on the wing too as he’s too small to expect to play a center line. Either Kappo or Hughes will be able to fill a winger spot on the top 2 lines immediately.

    Go to capfriendly.com and play with the $83M salary cap for next year and you can see this team fit well under the cap and leave plenty of room for signing Debrincat and Strome the following year.

    The arrow is pointing up. Just hope Toews and Kane can keep up this level of play for another couple seasons. If they can, this team will compete next year and make a run the year after once they commit to players development and the lineups.

  6. I look at things objectively. I didn’t and haven’t criticized the Schmaltz trade at all. Bowman drafted Debrincat, I’ve given him credit for that repetitively. He has a good eye for young, non NHL players, look at panarin as a prime example.

    Kane & Toews aren’t gonna keep up this level of play forever. It’s wasted years. I’m not the GM, he earns a very healthy living, and he can thank his father for that. The Hawks shouldn’t have never regressed to the level they have the last two seasons, bottom feeders. That’s not Q’s fault (and he had a few as well).

    Lastly, the new coach was placed (by Bowman) in a poor spot. Q was .500 with a worse roster. Bowman is not credible, he should stay away from the media when the Hawks are doing well, and address the media the next time they lose a few games in a row.

  7. again I reiterate I believe a big part of the Strome trade was the fact Phoenix (ahem, Arizona) approached the Blackhawks about Schmatlz. They got Strome who is Debrincat’s best friend I would think and hope to ease contract negotiations….which Debrincat and Strome….as opposed to Schmaltz who was rumored (and I stress rumored because what do we know) 5+ million. I understand Nick Schmaltz was a league leader in takeaways (which is fantastic in my opinion) but I’m not sure that’s the contract they want right now. He had a rough start point production wise to the year; is it Q’s fault? who knows. Either way I think the Schmaltz trade was not a bad one. Perlini has every opportunity in the world to succeed at this point; it’s up to him.

    why is Kunitz playing????? has he agreed to waive his no trade clause?? He shouldn’t play another minutes unless he’s agreed to.
    Wait a second….he failed to clear the zone that resuled in another goal against today? NOT ENOUGH KUNITZ; you needed to be responsible for three more to help get a higher draft pick. In fact for kunitz contributions for the higher draft pick this season the team should give him some kind of pregame ceremony for helping the blackhawks journey to last place.

  8. Not sure what Bowman and crew did thats so bad that the Organization would inter up something in mid term process. They havnt. Until this transition is complete or at least enough of the way through, those guys arnt going anywhere. Its not about blame or has to at 82 games. Its big picture and these should be here to see it through. The only mistake you can make is, like to trade 20 and give 8 6m just because of a 10 game segment, to cut a tree down and not be able to put it back. Let the Saader and Schmaltz situation serve purpose. See it through, you can always cut a tree down later.

  9. Does it really matter if the prospects play 40 or 25 games to get experience. Normally 25 is a very lot. Who cares and I know why you say it, though we have 40 games to use. I agree use wisely, though 40 a lot of thing can be done. Theres no few games of margin with that, theres like an extra 20 games to do whatever these want to go about it. Understand peoples wants, its going to be ok.

  10. Iceman, is it a waste to get ufas worht while and only have ,the DAL recipie, to being a top 10 team. Or os it better to get, tank ufas, in order to get 6 blue chip players-2 of which are elite and reload with a better roster for yrs 2-8 of 19 and 88. Instead of being better for yrs 1 and 2 and then not as good for 2-8 of these yrs for 19 and 88. It is about 19 and 88 and I would rather them have a deep roster then a close no cigar roster that happens a lot.

    Were going for it and it looks like the better way. Its genius really to add two elite draft and get better with additional blue chip players from these three drafts. Get back Bread Man and keep Saader in the process. At the extent of two off yrs. Well worth the dues for two yrs, to win another Cup.

  11. Morrison, I am pretty sure that Howe and Delvechio scored at least twenty a season for Detroit for eleven straight years. It’s a great accomplishment by two great players.

  12. @Eddie

    “Also, please stop playing Kruger and Kunitz. I understand they are trade bait but those guys are doing nothing to help the young guys and the 3rd and 4th lines develop. All other GM’s know what those two can do so showcasing right now with the Hawks focusing on the next season is just dumb. Bring Johnson back, play Perlini, bring up Ejdsell, bring up Fortin, and keep playing Hayden and Kampf. We need to see which of these guys are worth re-signing as RFA’s as they are all, besides hayden, RFA’s. My bet is only a couple are worth signing, so the others package up with Kunitz and Kruger to get any draft picks they can back even if that means a 5th rounder.”

    1. Perlini is in concussion protocal, that’s why he is not playing.

    2. Kunitz is about 5 games played from 1000 in his career. Some may say “so what” but players in the locker room care big time about that, so do agents and the players assoc. After he hits 1000, fine sit him and ask if he’ll waive. Someone might want him as playoff depth.

    3. Luke Johnson, Ejdsell, Fortin are doing very little in Rockford, although Ejdsell has had an upswing the last 4-5 games. Blackhawks won’t call anyone up now, they are going into about 10 days off shortly. The three you named need lots of playing time and experience some success at the AHL level.

    4. Hayden and Kampf sure, makes sense.

  13. @ Iceman

    “I’m not the GM, he earns a very healthy living, and he can thank his father for that. The Hawks shouldn’t have never regressed to the level they have the last two seasons, bottom feeders. That’s not Q’s fault (and he had a few as well).

    Lastly, the new coach was placed (by Bowman) in a poor spot. Q was .500 with a worse roster. Bowman is not credible, he should stay away from the media when the Hawks are doing well, and address the media the next time they lose a few games in a row.”

    Few if any of these comments are objective. Biased yes, objective no. You may want to research how Stan B. was hired by the Blackhawks 17 yrs ago, Mike Smith hired him to do analytics type work. Smith had no connections with Scotty Bowman other than he knew who he was.

    Regarding media interviews, Bowman = accessible all year long especially to that guy at Athletic. Suggesting he turns down interviews during losing streaks is the antithesis of objectivity.

    You think Bowman should be fired, you may get your wish. Maybe sometime you can say who should replace him, why that person would do better, why said person is available, what on their resume says they should be the guy, and so on. Your guy Hull has advocated everyone from Doug Wilson to Eddie O. the last few days, surely you can do better than to just throw names against the wall and hope they stick.

    Every new coach replacing a legend is in a bad spot. You do know how long it takes players to break ingrained on ice habits right? To have a new system become 2nd nature? Think months, not weeks or instant gratification. Change is inevitable, it had to happen sometime, it is never a good time. Might happen to Bowman too.

    Let it play out. Constantly harping on it esp. after a nice win isnt objective though, it’s complaining to suit the narrative of trying to convince people of your point.

    Sorry to others for the long post.

  14. That was a damn impressive offensive display today. The defensive zone coverage – not so much. Washington has been in a funk lately and didn’t play very well today but the Hawks took advantage of it and put the puck in the net so good for them.

    I liked the energy Caggiula brings and that top line played pretty well. Also liked DCat-Strome-Kahun. Keith-Seabrook kinda looked like their old selves today.

    I’m all for getting the best draft position but this game was fun. Forget about squeezing out a loser point – if you’re going to pick up points in the standings make it a fun game with lots of goals.

  15. Interest rumor/report that Duchene was offered a take it or leave it offer from Ottawa – 8 years @ $8M. That’s probably a fair offer for Duchene who is having a pretty good season statistically with 46 points in 40 games. Could he be the free agent the Hawks go after? He would probably cost less than Panarin or Stone and maybe there would be enough cap space to also sign a second tier free agent like Dzingel. Adding Duchene, Dzingel and a top draft pick to Toews, Kane, DCat, Saad, Strome and Kahun would make a pretty good top-9.

  16. I want Saad and Anisimov to get hot soon to boost their trade values. Then we trade them and therefore play worse, thus boosting our chances for a top pick.

  17. I’ll start with Delia. It is simple fundamentals that prevent him from stopping pucks from bad angles. Anyone here remember Crawford being the easiest ‘tender in the league to score on from the corner? Phoenix playoff series folks. At least 3, maybe 5 times, including OT game winners. Jimmy Waite will fix it. I’m not concerned.

    For a guy who claims to know everything about hockey, Hull could use a little more knowledge and common sense. Why was Saad with Kampf and Krueger today? Let’s all say it together loud enough and maybe he will hear it: CHECKING LINE TO SHUT DOWN WASHINGTON’S TOP LINE. Who did they play against most of the game (hint: see previous sentence)? Which team has last change and controls matchups? Hint: reasonably informed hockey fans know it is the home team, thus allowing us to have the matchups we wanted all day. And please stop whining about Saad not being with Toews. JC stacked the top line today (notice who did lots of scoring damage today?). Matchups. Remember who controls matchups? Hint: read previous sentences. I’m not sure what Hull’s agenda here is about, but adding quality information is not likely it. Tab’s gotta be getting tired of giving him hugs.

    Time to back off of Jeremy Colliton. It appears he understands how to coach, to me.

    I believe the power struggle between Bowman(s) and Q created a lot of crazy player personnel decisions in the past 5 years. Keeping Sharp a year too long was the biggest to me. That set us back a bunch as Johns was ready to play in the NHL. Giving Q what he wanted instead of trying to build as we went along was taken too far and thus we got our feeder systems out of whack. Gave away too many top picks for prayers at TDL. Can’t think of any other than Vermette that actually worked out, and Q did his best to blow that one up.

    Tank UFAs? Seriously? We don’t need TANK UFAs when we have star Dmen turn the puck over with stupid drop passes inside 10 feet right in the slot (Thursday game) so the kid goalie can get his GAA lowered by their stupidity. Tank UFAs should lead to league reprimands. We already have seen changes to draft order selection to back away from tanking.

    We don’t have a top pair defensively. We don’t have 2 guys capable of being a top pair on any other team in the NHL. NONE. Nobody. Best Dman on the team is likely Murphy, and he really is 3-4 at best most anywhere else in the league. To believe Keith and Joki are a top pair in this league – to me – just doesn’t pass the eye test, unless you have them closed. No offense intended to those who think Joki can be a top pair guy, but he definitely has a long way to go. Again, and I asked Hull earlier in the year, what team is Keith going to play top pair on in the league? Give me 3 teams, and then PLEASE find one of those teams to take his skates from us. Considering he has a full NTC, I doubt he ever leaves Chicago on this contract. He has family reasons to stay here, and those are stronger than hockey reasons to leave. He has 3 cups and other assorted hardware. Leave him paired with Seabrook for the remainder of the season unless he waives, and let the kids pair up and learn to play with each other. Or put him upstairs – I could really get to like that. We likely won’t have a legit top pair on defense for a few years, unless we trade for a player (or 2) to fill those roles. Dmen take time to develop. Next year’s top pair should be obvious to the eye test already. My eyes aren’t seeing it yet. Slamming a 21 or 22 year old kid(s) into the role and expecting him to succeed hasn’t been working too well last or this year, and likely won’t in the next year either. And I doubt a horse or any other animal is going to change that. Look at how long it took Nashville to develop their studs.

  18. Tab
    Excellent call on Dahlstrom keeping the great 8 quiet… i can’t remember when ovi was that average

    Caggs… really like his speed and tenacity
    He is able to keep up physically and mentally with the big boys… kinda like a smaller version of Frolik. .. i hope he can pot some points playing with 19//88 cuz he looked like he was high IQ out there with them.

  19. I feel for the guys like 15 40 and others 16 and maybe 20 for thoughts and stuff. Those guys are the guys who really play their balls off. Just 23man roster wise we have to what we have to to get deep again. Plus we know we need those kind of guys even when were deep again. Cant have 12 smurfs and 6 smurfetts.

    You can see the difference it makes to have 4 lines though. look at Kaner yelling and Tazer looking like, thats I can do when not playing checking line stud. Loved seeing De bob lee swagger cat and Strome looking at Kaner and saying stuff after PP goal like see what 17 and I can create and distract other team with. Boom!

  20. Goldenrug, Delvecchio had run of 6 straight and then another of 5, 20 goal seasons so not 11 straight. Howe had a 27 year run 22 nhl, 5 wha.
    Hull and Mikita actually had 11 straight 20 goal years together. Not from start of their careers though.
    Lafleur and Shutt had a 12 year of 20 goals each run i believe to start their careers, not sure if any others or not.

  21. Seriously tank ufas in 23 44 14/other without a doubt helped us in the position to have a chance at top 6 pick. Otherwise were picking 10-20. What good is that going to do us, not a top pick and a 32-35 pick.

  22. @ Ian

    The guy they played against today Ovi I bet he has 20+ in 12 yrs straight.

    Also Silent Spot just an excellent post.

  23. Prospects Chk
    Hagel 1g 1a 1st star
    Boqvist 1a
    Entwistle 1a

    Ushl
    Hakkarainen 1g 1a

    Strome can be fine player if he learns to play a Phil Esposito type go to the net garbage goal type role. Thats where he can be a mainstay, points like he got today en goals or falling down on pp and 19 picks up puck and feeds 88 aren’t going take him far. But he has potential to carve out his niche.
    Cagguila on top line has to get another look. Kane needs a line that plays more in other end and they may be do that, we’ll see.

  24. Silent – thanks for posting the checking line scenario – it needed to be said and it worked

    I’m not for trading Saad – Keith yes, Saad no

    And who was that guy wearing #7 – he hasn’t played that well for at least 2 years probably 3 – how does that happen?

    I’m still bullish on Delia but he goes down too early and when he goes down he really gets low – all goalies are vulnerable high the way they play now but Delia is even more vulnerable – there’s too much space too soon upstairs on him but I think he can solve his issues with coaching help over time

    Koekkoek did alright I thought – he’s a strong skater and more physical than I realized

    Maybe Joki goes to RKF and plays 20 minutes a night – probably best for him right now

  25. Wraparound, you don’t want to trade Saad. Ok, why? Hes brutally inconsistent. Hes had a season and a half to put it together and he really hasn’t. Certainly not enough for a 6 mil a year guy. Let him be someone else’s reclamation project. We all keep waiting for the “real” or “old” Saad to emerge, but has he? No. Deal him. Use that cap space for a consistent producer. I’m done with him.

  26. Hawktalk — spot on.

    Row A — you’re entitled to post your opinion, in the same respect that I am. As Hawktalk posted in one sentence, the GM is in charge of the roster, that’s his job.

    Good evening.

  27. I am no coach but watching this man to man system, seems when teams who have good puck movement gain control of the puck, confusion follows. Defencemen abandoning position to follow their man or picking up a forward who is left unchecked by a their own forward resulting in 2 players chasing him and a opposing forward all alone in front not accounted for, with a glorious opportunity. Colliton is knowledgeable coach but until i see this system work effectively, will question its merit at Nhl level.

  28. I think it’s unfair to criticize the man to man defense when the same defenders weren’t any better playing under Q’s system. I think the problem lies more with the players than with the system. Any defensive system has pluses and minuses but it comes down to the ability of the players to execute whatever system they’re supposed to be playing. In general, a zone type defense is used when the team is not proficient playing man to man which is a better defense when executed properly. If the players aren’t able to play man to man then either teach and train them to be better at it or give up and go man. Maybe this season is also being used to train man to man defense for future use (?).

  29. Iceman, great posts. All production is coming from our two top lines. Bowman parted with Teuvo and Panarin because he was in cap trouble, mainly created by him. Trading Schmaltz, Manning, and Rutta are other good moves in freeing up cap. Now that he has gotten out of it, let’s hope he uses funds wisely on better trades and signings.

    To others: Be careful what you wish for in trading Saad. He has a lot of skills and is young. Maybe for a low 20’s pick only. Showed lots of skill on his goal.

    One comment on Cagg. I have complimented his play in earlier posts, but after his decision to make a no-look backhand pass when he had a close-in unobstructed shooting opportunity, I am not so sure. Should have been a no-brainer.

  30. Its got to be for future use. How long does it take for guys to get it down pat. Then do it blind folded and in their sleep. Got to be a long time to get good at it. Certain players are better or worse to, just because of system. We do this style, then we better have it to a T by 2nd 40 games next season and on. Thats when it matters. Prob having more of the puck ‘moving’ defensemen will play a large part. I can see the team getting good at it as moar of the young fast players come in and the type that are already good at it. I am thinking its going to be good in the long run.

  31. EB why is it unfair to doubt something that isn’t working, i gave him his due as cosch but this system isn’t helping yet. Its not trashing him just looking for improvement before i believe in it.

  32. There is a bit of optimism in the air, and the games are more entertaining lately-and we can enjoy one of the best hockey players of all time on a great run.
    Top 3 pick or top 10-whatever.

  33. Ian, I meant it isn’t fair to judge a system when the players who are playing it aren’t good enough to play sound defense in any system. In other words, Colliton may have concluded the team defense sucks no matter what system they employ so let’s try man on man for a while to see who, if anyone, has the potential to play that style.

  34. 1. There’s no way Bowman will be fired in a middle of a rebuild which he is doing. So dream on. Q’s firing was a collective decision. This team was on a downward slide since they lost to Nashville in the first round.
    2. Trade Saad? He just turned 25 is a power forward which we lack. Who do u think we’d get for him?
    3. I really liked the lines yesterday. I did not like Jokie benched. Everyone on D sits except Seabs and Keith. However one thing I loved was Seabs having Keith’s back by jumping that pos Wilson.

  35. @ Iceman

    You want Bowman fired, your opinion that is fine. Let’s back it up with a solution.

    Who should replace him?
    Why specifically would that person be the better choice?
    Why is that GM candidate available?
    What on their resume says they should be the guy?
    What other front office changes do you make and why, and who do you bring in?

    I have my own opinions on the issue but will save them for a later post sometime down the line.

  36. Man-on-man defense is tougher to play, absolutely. It is also more accountable as everyone on the ice knows who took the play off when the other team scores. Yes, player switching needs to happen at times, particularly because of player locations at the offensive end, but once everyone gets back to the defensive role in the play, you best be in someone’s jock or you are letting down 21 guys on your team. That’s what teams are about – being responsible to each other. Don’t want to be responsible to anyone else? Go play golf or tennis. Simple rule – stay between your man and the net. Not too hard to figure out, but it means paying attention and not camping out at center ice or taking the long route back to your defensive zone. Accountability. Sucks when you are drawing the matchup with Crosby or McDavid!! Yes, you MUST help each other out at times, and we are still working to sort that part out. The more (and faster) the other team skates, the tougher it is to play defense. You gotta work. It’s not all fun and play. Zone defense is thought to be a lazy way to play.

    Basketball is the same way. The NBA had at one point outlawed ZONE defense (I quit watching many moons ago so I don’t know if it still works that way). Not sure if that has changed. NCAA BB sees most teams play M2M, and sometimes fall back to a zone to rest or protect their players in foul trouble, especially against superior athletic teams.

    We will figure it out. We don’t get skated out of the arena any more. Takes time and COMMUNICATION. Talk to each other and help each other out. Much better than at the beginning of Colliton’s time here. It was harder on the veterans than the kids who have played for JC before.

  37. EB, i think blaming the defencemen for everything isn’t fair either. As Silent noted it takes a committment from the whole roster to play defence and your as strong as the weakest link. Part of my point was that the blueline is far from strong defensively but alot of forwards aren’t really committed to providing the support needed. The system seems to put alot of onus on the defence when that happens.
    Every system needs checks and balances when shit happens, but alot of forwards, you can see who is working and who waits for the puck to come to them which hangs the defencemen out to dry alot.

    If Colliton can implemement a system that can bring out the best in the yoiunger players fair enough. Then with success on this reload he can move upstairs when a coach to take them the to the pinnacle of the is promoted/brought in.
    Bowman take over for McDonough when he retires.

  38. ER and Ian – I think you both are correct and make good points.

    Philosophical question: Should the coach get players to buy into his system or create a system that fits the player personnel he has? Regardless of how you answer the question, the change from Q to JC creates a problem because of your answer. Our team was a zone defense with limited accountability under Q, and JC wants to coach a M2M system with full accountability. I’m not advocating one over the other, but pointing out that the coaching change created the need for more change, either in JC’s philosophy or the player’s roles on the ice. Bowman haters will blame him for it, but truth is we don’t know if Bowman understands the change he forced on the team by picking JC to replace Q. I think that as long as you are going to have chaos, this was the correct way to create it. The benefit is the draft pick we likely get in the summer.

    I think with Bowman’s hockey background (being around the game all of his life) he likely understood the chaos he was causing when he hired JC and told him to do as you want with the system, knowing full well it was not going to be appreciated by the core players (who wants to work harder at their job because a new boss arrives?). JC implements M2M and the core pouts. Gee whiz, couldn’t see that on Toews and Kane on the bench!!! The kids go back to recent habits In the minors under JC, the vets lose the attitude and the team starts looking like a team again. Now every move that Bowman makes should fit JC’s needs and desires, not ours, just like he was doing with Q.

    Who are the players that have suffered the most under the change? Well, I say anyone unfortunate enough to be between the pipes, and our Dmen. Chaos with forwards will always lead to chaos at the other end. Also, some players had freedoms under Q that JC probably needed to scale back to end some of the chaos. For instance, Keith had pretty much unlimited freedom to join any rush and pinch any time under Q. It worked well with Q for 2 basic reasons: It was part of the Q playbook and the most important reason – Seabrook was with Keith on the ice. 7 is the most important part of Keith’s game. Seabrook is Keith’s FIXER. 7 knew he had to stay back and cover more area and did it well. This allowed Keith to be at his best for the team, to join rushes and create havoc at the offensive end. Seabrook fixed the resulting mess at the other end. The Dmen got lost in the change of systems as Keith continued to go rogue in a system where nobody could cover for him because of pairings. Joki, poor guy, was on an island and couldn’t swim to the mainland. We are still pumping water from his lungs. That was why I kept saying (and still insist) that Seabrook needed to be with Keith, to protect his aggressiveness. JC pulled the reigns in on joining rushes and the team became boring and couldn’t score, and some on the board were asking for more offense from the back end, joining rushes, rotation in the offensive zone. I suggested at that time that we needed to learn the base responsibilities of the system before unleashing freedoms. We are getting better, and more freedoms are being enjoyed.

    Now JC is trying to figure his lines to allow a line to be responsible for shutting down the best line on the other side. Easier done at home than on the road, it allows Toews freedoms (notice the trend?) and PK to do what he does best. Let the coach be a coach. The team has bought in. Does M2M work? Ask the Hawks who got eliminated by the Kings in an attempt to win back to back cups. Sutter demanded M2M with max effort, or you watched from the press box.

    Meanwhile, we sit near the bottom of the league, playing more enjoyable to watch hockey than we did 2 months ago, and sorting out who the players are going to be here next year. I’m looking forward to the draft. Patience.

    Mike Ditka always said, and I paraphrase: Give me a smart athlete. The rest I can fix.

  39. The problem with man to man is if you don’t have better atheletes than the other team, someone is always breaking free from the defensive coverage and creating havoc.

    It is not realistic to expect everyone on the team to not be matched up against someone who is not faster than them, can’t stop/start quicker than them, or can’t physically overpower them. I’ve tried to cover guys on the hockey rink and if they are a better skater than you, guess what? You can’t cover them one on one. If they outweigh you by 50 lbs and have 6 inches on you, guess what? You can’t get the puck from them. Or very rarely.

    To me that is why you don’t see man to man that much. Maybe if you have Nashville’s defensive core, but last I checked we are pretty far away from that.

    Dahlstrom has helped, Murphy too. We have gotten a lot better play when those guys joined the rotation. But man do we give up a lot of prime chances from the slot area. That will need to get fixed or the timetable everyone has for us getting back to the playoffs and being in contention again will never come to reality.

  40. HEREISMIKE thats where drafting these young mobile defensmen will help. Have the athletes back there to match the speed and skill forwards of top teams. Size will be a challenge for sure, but when playing Oilers who worries you more Mcdavid or Lucic, i guess is what they are looking at.

  41. Greyhawk said “Trade Saad? He just turned 25 is a power forward which we lack. Who do u think we’d get for him?”

    Your comments support my opinion. Hes 25–and should be in his prime, but hes been simple average since we got him back.

    Hes a power forward–but doesn’t produce like one.

    At 6 mil a year, hes not worth it. I find it hard to believe we couldn’t replace his production with someone far less expensive.

  42. Saad is 26, will be 27 come late Oct. and yes, Blackhawks will see what his market value is come trade deadline. Saad could get them something they really want.

  43. Mitch, although Saad has disappointed since coming back to the Blackhawks, he has higher-end skating and stick-handling ability and is a good shooter. Am guessing that he would fetch from a playoff team at the TDL:

    1. Low-to-mid 20s pick, or
    2. High 20s pick plus either a decent prospect or 2nd/3rd rounder (this year or next).

    Risky for the Hawks but we will soon find out if he will be shopped.

  44. Right I just looked up his age 26. He could be entering his prime tho and hes too young to throw away for an if piece. He still has 15 goals and hasn’t played that good. We have all these players that find the net at all. We might have a huge regret trading him.

  45. For those who want to trade Saad…

    What would you prefer, a 6M dollar Saad to control the third line, shut down opposing teams 1st lines, produce 45 to 55 points a year, kill penalties, play 2nd powerplay, and be a beast in the playoffs when we get there and allow Toews to be a top-line center and focus on scoring or have a 10.5M dollar Toews produce 50-60 points a year and need to shut down the oppositions top line?

    Looks at the years Saad got traded, Toews production sharply decreased (58 points each season), then losing Hossa, made it that much more important for Toews to be the shut-down guy. That is why Saad was brought back, to help with that and produce a bit. Well we have seen that Saad can lead a shut-down line without Toews now, which allows Toews to go play offense more, which inturn will lead to more production.

    Money does not always only translate to point totals… aka TOEWS!!!!! If we are speaking strictly on point production Toews is no where near worth 10.5M, but he brings many other valuable skills. Such is the same with Saad. He may never be a top end finisher but he plays a larger role than many people notice or appreciate. He works his butt off every play.

    I will not deny that Saad hasn’t produced points at the rate everyone wants to see, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t a valuable asset to this team. And as by his last 3 games (3 goals) he has the ability, just needs some consistency.

  46. Wow young fan. Not sure what YOUNG means to your age, but a good argument spoken well like an older fan!

    Sometimes you got to give something to get something, but we definitely know what we give when dealing Saad, and getting a draft pick or two is no guarantee on the ‘get’ side, unless in the top 10. And even that has its risks.

    I think Saad’s best years are his next 2. Probably the most versatile forward on the team for moving up and down the lines, and filling specific roles. You hit them well. Addition (for Toews) by subtracting Saad and moving him into a very valuable role.

  47. Every team in league, top 5/10/10-20/bottom 10 would be downward when take away two elite players like 81 and 4.

    Until we add those two quality elite players back, 72/similar and a Top Defensemen we wont be a top 5 team. Thats why I think were going to do that when its time and after getting another top pick quality player this draft, its time baby!

  48. Trade Saad while he is hot. This hot streak will end soon and then the Hawks will be stuck with an under achieving “power forward” that get his ass whooped in the corners and is not willing to stand in front of the net and get greasy goals. He is good for about 4-6 bull rushes toward the net per year like he did yesterday.

    His track record has to be looked at. He worked his way to the forth line during his last year with CBJ. He tanked last year 35 pts and even with his current latest streak, he’s on pace for only 45 point. Let’s not forget the health scratch this year. This is a trend for him. He has 7 NHL season. He is what he is and he is not worth spending $6.5M.

    SB or the next GM need to move him if the Hawks get a decent deal and draft picks.

  49. Saader should stay because the top 9 is better with him.

    Last/this yr we do not have 9 top 9 players. When were deep again in 2 yrs, we ll be better with 20 in the top 9.

    If by then he doesnt score and enough of the others do, then fine.

  50. I wouldnt go by anything that dumbass coach does, other then ruin players confidence. Not worth the time with people like that. Get them out of Saaders life.

  51. One thing about Saad that gets overlooked is that he is amazingly durable. He has barely ever missed a game. In 2013 it was Saad and Bickell game after game taking the pounding and winning the battles. You need warriors and if/when we ever get back in the hunt I could see him rising to the occasion. So what if he is a little overpaid. Keeper.

  52. We are in a catch 22. Our young d-men need the playing time Sitting out is doing nothing for them. The predicament Colliton is in how do you go to Keith and Seabs and sit them out. Neither will be playing if the Hawks actually win another Cup. They deserve all the respect in the world but what do you do. I remember when they first came up and the ups and downs they had. They were not finished products by a long shot. By the way the trade that bugs me more than anything is Hartman traded for what? A very low first round draft pick and Viktor who looks like he can’t skate. What was the purpose of this trade? Hartman was young cheap had some jam to him. He’d sure look better than most of the non scorers they have.

  53. Great posts and conversation here today.
    Saad isn’t an eye catcher like Kane and Panarin but there is a reason Bowman was willing to move Panarin to bring him back. He adds something to this roster that is missing and unless there somebody coming to fill his role, may be more value in keeping rather than trading him.

  54. For comparison’s sake TJ Oshie had 47 points last year in WSH and made $7.5 mil – Saad is on pace for 46 points this year at $6 mil

    I don’t think anyone wanted Oshie gone last year in WSH and as some here have stated Oshie has a game (like Saad) suited for the playoffs and he was a beast for the Capitals in their Cup run

    Saad has been a beast for the Hawks in the playoffs past and I think he will again once they get back to them

    If you throw out the 10 – 15 games at the start of the year Saad has been one of the most consistent forwards in terms of effort and has produced at a decent rate and even with his poor start should finish as I showed above roughly equal in points to Oshie

    Plus he’s much younger – he’s someone the Hawks can win with IMO when they’re ready to win again

  55. Power forwards really demonstrate their value in the playoffs and Saad has done that as have other former Hawks like Buff, Bickell

    If you trade him who’s going to take that role? especially since he is in his prime years

  56. I’m in the ” don’t trade Saad” group. Saad’s $6M cap hit has 2 more seasons after this one which means that $6M will be on the books when it’s time to pony up a substantial raise for DCat and whatever it will take to re-sign the other RFA’s after the 2019/20 season – Strome, Kahun, Caggiula and Hayden. But, the next wave of RFA’s needing to be re-signed will be after Saad’s contract expires – Jokiharju and whichever other prospects have started their NHL career by then. We’ll know before the summer of 2020/21 whether we want to extend Saad of not. In other words the timing of Saad’s contract is not a problem relative to re-signing the other player(s) important to the Hawks future success.

  57. Greyhawk, I believe we got Vikktor Edj and drafted Beaudin and Kurashev for Hartman and a pick. I think that was pretty darn good trade.

  58. I’ll stick with my guns on what I’ve said before, “player over a prospect or pick every time”. Now to be fair “every” is a very strong word. With respect to Saad for a pick….no thanks I’ll take Saad. Unless it’s multiple, multiple picks; any team trading for Saad likely is not a basement team so we’re talking about a pick in the mid-to late round-statistically a pick that would not make the NHL. I wouldn’t want that for Saad even if it’s a first rounder. Now; if somehow it can be a top 5 pick (which is impossible to guarantee even at the trade deadline) that’s a different story. I would only want to see Saad go if a proven player comes in return. No team is going to make that trade unless it’s a threeway trade with a pick going to a bottom of the league team.

    Now if the REturn for Saad was a proven player, a top tier prospect (why aren’t they in the NHL if they are so top tier???), and multiple high draft picks then sure it’s worth considering. I wouldn’t want to see Saad go for a first round and a prospect; no thanks; some 15+ position draft pick that likely will never see the NHL and even if they do it would likely be years before they have an impact; and some “prospect” that for some reason isn’t in the NHL but has so much potential-no thanks.
    Keep Saad

    A better piece to trade (assuming NTC is waived) is Crawford; proven goalies are very hard to come by so I’d hate to see Crow go; but in terms of value; injury or not a team going for it would love to have a proven Cup winner in the most important position on the team….and that’s in Net. Just my opinion but the league seems to lacking proven goalies. Who do we have out there? Pekka Rinne, That Tampa Bay goalie, who else help me out here; I like Gibson on the Ducks. The list is thin….which is all the more reason for keeping Crow.

  59. Wrap, Power forwards really demonstrate their value in the playoffs.
    To me all you are saying is Saad has zero value on this current Blackhawks team.

    If you trade him who will take that role? What role? Chicago in not making the playoffs this year and without major changes they will not make the playoffs next year either.

    I’m in the “trade Saad” group. As he is just one of many over paid underperforming Blackhawks.

    When you are one of the worst teams in the NHL why wouldn’t everyone on the roster be available at the right price?

    Let me see the logic….don’t trade anyone of value because next year might be their breakout year. Never trade a fan favorite.

    What if the Hawks used that logic? We could still have Andrew Shaw.
    Who would have Alex Debrincat?

    Just because you trade a Brandon Saad it doesn’t mean that you don’t get something in return. Chicago could easily trade Saad for a first round pick. With the money that they could save on cap space they could easily go after free agent Artemi Panarin or another top free agent. This way you can add a first round draft pick.

    To me standing pat now doesn’t seem wise.

  60. Greyhawk, Ryan Hartman has just 16 points in 50 games played, although his avg TOI is just 14 min. Unlike with the Hawks, he is controlling his penalties, with only 35 PIM. Beaudin is only 18 and shows elite skills. He is more than a point-a-game with Drummondville. Time will tell, but am happy with this trade. Ejdsell a non-factor, who will not be making the team.

  61. Sorry Stape not following your logic

    You would trade Saad because they’re not making the playoffs this year? What about next year or the year after (he’s still signed for two more years anyway) – I think with a few astute moves and the signing of the right UFAs (and that by the way could include Panarin without moving Saad) they could be back in the playoffs next year especially if a high draft this year can play next year and someone like Boqvist can play next year

    So my question is still if you trade Saad who is going to play the power forward role as well as him in the playoffs? – hopefully and not unrealistically next year

  62. They will explore the market for Saad if they haven’t already and I’m told they are doing just that. Doesn’t mean he will be traded for sure.

    Two years of control after this, remember they didn’t or couldn’t sign him to an extension last times so there’s that.

    You don’t get better by trading him but maybe you get better by the return, a good young player on the cusp or maybe two. Not necessarily picks.

  63. Stape, you make good points about trading Saad, but how high a first round pick do you think he could fetch? Earlier, I guessed in the low-mid 20s, which gets risky at that level. I wouldn’t make the trade without also receiving a good prospect (better than Ejdsell) or their 2nd round pick. Saad is the Hawks’ 4th best forward and has a lot of well-rounded skill. If the late-round pick makes the team, that’s 1-3 years down the road. In the mean time K&T need one or two high-quality fa to maintain their productivity.

  64. The closest guy in the system to being a legit power forward other than Saad is maybe Entwistle (and only if he can get stronger) and he is likely 2+ years away. Knott was a possibility but he isn’t going to make it. You need these guys and they are hard to come by and right now the cupboard is pretty much bare.

    Just to add, I can’t back it up with numbers but it strikes me that there lot of busts over time at power forward (eg. Clarkson, Clowe, Lucic) and amongst draftees (Skille, Beach, McNeill). I see Saad as much lower risk. Keeper

  65. I think any move Bowman makes from now and through next season has to viewed as what makes this team a playoff team in 2019-2020. Bowman believes this team is close to being a playoff team right now, so the question of trading someone is will that move forward the Hawks efforts at being a playoff team next season and beyond?

    As far as Saad is concerned, it depends on what they get in return.

    If he is traded for draft picks/prospects, you are effectively removing a veteran who is in his prime for player(s) who most likely will not be effective next season. As many have pointed out, the Hawks do not have anyone currently on the roster or in the system close to being NHL ready that could replace what Saad does for this team. Trading Saad for picks/prospects might add talent to the farm system, but it would not help them get to the playoffs next year and would be the equivalent of blowing the team up and starting over.

    If he is traded for a comparable NHL ready player who could fill the role he currently plays, then trading him could still help them make a playoff appearance. The thinking here is that, what you lose in Saad not being here is replaced with the returning player fixing a team need. The key in this type of move is that the net sum of trading Saad is no worse than zero.

    Personally, I would only move Saad if it brought you one or more NHL ready players to fill Hawks current needs. Otherwise don’t trade him.

  66. Lots of great Saad points made.

    But here’s the thing: so many of you saying “dont trade him, hes good” reveal his potential trade value in the minds of other teams GMs. They probably think the same, meaning he could fetch a good return. Hez better than Hartman so why couldn’t he fetch a mid first round pick?

    I believe the reality is he is ultimately overrated. Even by those who watch him regularly. So a GM could easily think the same and pay through the nose for him come trade deadline.

    All this talk of his playoff potential, etc. —
    a solid player produces all season long. He hasn’t much for 2.5 years and going. Hes had so much time to rise to his potential with his play and it simply hadn’t happened. He was to be a top 3 who could carry a top line, not a “versatile ” 3rd liner. Especially not for 6 million a year.

    Trade him to a team that is still blind to the reality of him so we can rebuild with a fresh crop. Gotta play the long game here.

  67. Stape, about still getting a 1st and then add a top 6 FW. We need to add Bread Man to get him back. Trading Saader would be ok if were adding Stone and Bread Man. Now thats being creative and I think the plan the whole time was to get Saader back and still have Bread Man after those two yrs plus have that many more 1sts.

  68. Last yr Saader didnt have good shooting, like Hoss that one yr, he was 7.6% and scored 15 goals. This yr, including the shitty first 10 games/only bad section, he shooting 12.9% and will score 25 goals.

  69. Morrison and others: you can cite all the projected stats you want, but it doesn’t prove anything about Saad. The reality is hes underperforming for both his salary and why he was reaquired. Hes not what we thought he was-he’s less. Hopefully SB will fleece some ignorant GM who overvalues Saad like so many of you here seem to do!

  70. @mitch
    right about fleecing another GM; fleece away; however if you think Saad is worth ONLY a first round pick and a prospect (who has so much potential but magically isn’t in the NHL for some reason) then that is not enough. Saad’s current contract dictate’s hes not a rental for just this year. If all you want in return is midround pick then you are out of your mind. Players over picks nearly everytime. A return for Saad should be a King’s ransom nothing less.

  71. I woth you on the stats stuff, I do not base things only on that or say that makes it ok. I can see what you guys are talking about. Just like stats though, I do base players on the caphits. 2, 81, 4 and some other played elite for caphits way below the value. So I look at caphits as some will always be more, less and fair. Just need to make it work caphit wise so we can stack the roster. Having two guys at 10.5 is the new 6.3 it was in 2010. Maybe not that extreme, you know what I mean.

    I want 20 to be what we need him to be, like you/others are saying. Its guy like 65, 38, 20 that are vital on roster to win Cups. Its also guys like 81, 4, 29.

    When were deep again, and I mean the deepness I want, we need 3-5 of those kind of guys. 16, 67, 36, 65, 38, 29, 20, 81, 4.

  72. I do NOT base players on the caphits. 2, 81, 4 and some other played elite for caphits way below the value.

  73. Regards to Saad again. I have no problem with him being a scorer on a 3rd line. He’s got one more year on his contract and he can be a beast. How many players have u seen that could bull his way to the goal mouth with 2 guys hanging on him and still get that shot off for a goal. 15 goals is not shabby. Where else is scoring coming from on the bottom six? No one.

  74. Recliner-agreed all the way on pushing file a huge haul for Saad, be it in whatever form. I mentioned a mid round pick in relation to Hartman fetching a late first rounder, as in Saad should in theory fetch more.

  75. Ian/Wall, who do we have now thats coming, thats going to be good or could be, that play like any of these guys do. 16, 67, 36, 65.

    64 is good.

  76. Right you are Recliner

    Obviously anybody can be traded and if Saad were to be traded it shouldn’t be for picks, it should include a good player coming to the Hawks and those deals don’t very often happen at the TDL

    Contending teams aren’t going to give up a good roster player just before going into the playoffs

    A first round pick from a contending team for Saad would be highway robbery and not in CHI’s favour

    He would be a very valuable player for any team in the post season – hopefully next year it’s with a playoff bound CHI

    Again I refer to TJ Oshie who scores 18 goals last year in 74 games in the regular season but was invaluable to WSH in the playoffs – the regular season is not where power forwards are at their best with some very rare exceptions (Hossa)

    I get your disappointment if you thought he was going to be like Hossa but Saad is not a HOF player and he never was going to be but he’s still a good player and very good in the playoffs

  77. Greyhawk–in regard to the bull rush, sure, great, but how often does he do it and score? Every 15 games?

    Overrated.

  78. Another thought is we could stack the roster with lots of good players and then be stuck like TOR without deep and good group of Defense and goalie by trading 20/50. Totally agree on stacking. Just wouldnt want to end up like TOR, get it stacked for a, yr, and be looking for those positions when needing it and cant get it when want it.

    That doesn mean do not trade 20 and 50 for ransom. We would need to be able to get those kind of guys though and not get stuck like that. At least BOS, CHI, TAM had goalies of the future there to do it the first time around. Thomas-Rask, Nemo-Crow, Bishop-Vwhatever.

  79. With guys like, 6, 65, 29, 20, 81, its the goal that are scored because of what they can do 1 on 2 to create chances/goal itself. More the created goals that most players get tied up and its a wash. Those kind of goals you see Shawzer come from the corner/wall and go to the net through people and he scores or another guy gets rebound because hes a freight train like that. We need those kind guys and they are nasty to play against defensive FWs that play that way.

  80. Toews and Strome will be 2 of the 3 top-9 centers next season – but who will be the 3rd center? And don’t say Kampf. It will probably be Anisimov if he’s not traded – but if he is traded then who? Hughes is the only center in the draft that is almost guaranteed to play in the NHL next season and he may not even play center, at least not right away. Dach and Cozens and the other centers are probably a year or two away, which is fine if the Hawks draft one of them but it won’t help next season.

    Ideas?

  81. Mitch
    Can you indicate what it is you think Saad does for the team currently and what you think he should be doing instead, both strengths and weaknesses? Not looking for a fight here, just trying to understand what you think he should be doing more of, and how much of it.

    Is this a scoring issue only for you?

    I am also curious as to what players you think are currently over-performing on the Hawks based on their contracts, and actually anyone else you think that is under-performing.

    Thanks for your input.

  82. Ebony in my perfect Hawk world Kurachev will look spectacular in training camp and center the third line. After I wake up I don’t think the third center is in the organization yet.

  83. The teams that would want Saad would not be the teams with high first round picks as they would be upper level playoff teams needing a capable top 9 guy that can play multiple roles and move to the top line(s) if necessary, especially through injury. The lower teams aren’t going to trade for a guy making that much, that has been traded twice already-believe me.

    (Remember he projects to have about 43-45 points this year. Cap Hit-6 mill. Good player, nice piece–like to have/keep, don’t have to have player IMO) But–
    Only if you need the cap space would you trade his value for a maybe make it late first rounder.

  84. Thing to remember is every yr/the yrs we were deep and won Cups, we really did not have the 3rd line center at training camp. Only 11 was here by summer add, we still had to add 26 and 80. What I am saying is when were deep/loaded we still get that center at summer/deadline. So prob be the same for the 21 season and on.

  85. I know 11 was 4th center. Point is we always added a center, usually 3rd line, at summer or deadline. That was because we were loaded at LW and RW.

  86. Toews 3 goals Kane 2 Debrincat & Saad 1 each. That’s top flight top six forwards.
    What about the bottom six? All year long? Disgraceful. Hull65 posts a lot of material, lots of it superfluous. Lots of it in anger. Lots of to disregard. But he made an excellent point recently — Pittsburgh has been in the playoffs and competitive every season with Crosby & Malkin the last dozen years plus.
    That’s a credit to their GM.
    On the other hand, Bowman completely dropped the ball the last three years putting capable forwards in the bottom six. He went on a publicity tour when the Hawks won a few games in a row. Shameful, and shameful to waste Kane & Toews for another season.

  87. PIT didnt do anything after 2009 until 2016, except for 2013 were BOS smeared them. They couldnt compete against the real top 5 teams during those yrs (same with WAS). It wasnt until the league got watered down by cap, did they sneak two in. Their a bookend kind of team.

    When all the really good teams of this 10yrs went head to head every yr for those 7 yrs, where were they. They couldnt compete. They tried and BOS showed them they couldnt play with the top teams for those 7 yrs.

    I do not think they win even once (of the two they got) if they played in central quality teams. They basically had a bi every first round. Where in central, on most yrs, your playing a top 5/10 in first round every yr.

    gday.

  88. A bookend is no where near a dynasty. They did kind of what like NJ did, they won 3 times over/spread out over time. They did good (not as worthy as NJ). The best team was COL when they went head to head against DET and still won two. Like LA did head to head against CHI and still win two. When those teams were having dynastys.

    Its a lot harder to have a dynasty, where you a bunch Cups in a short period of time, though a long enough period of time where your in conference final/finals 6of7 yrs.

    PIT rested their pansys for 7 yrs after 2009 until 2016. Other then trying against BOS in 2013. They did not go through 7 grueling yrs yr after yr through that many rounds and much harder teams to beat/play against.

  89. Nothing against you. Just makes me sick when teams win when they do not deserve to. NAS got screwed on goalie interference, they win in 17.

    Sort of how we did not win in 14. Offsides on tieing goal in 3rd. Then two penatlys they see donot call and bad bounce.

    We should have won 4 and they 1, it doesnt always work out for what it should. Just that everyone everywhere knows who deserved to win those yrs.

    PIT could not compete with the top teams from 2000-2016. Watered down is when they all of sudden good? Their done now and have no one coming.

    CHI had loads of good young players coming and elite ufa to add.

  90. Prospects: Ncaa
    Krys 1a

    I find it curious that improving defense is something people wanted all year. Yet one of the few forwards Saad who committs totally to defense, are so vocal to want him traded and replaced by someone with more offense and most likely mostly one dimensional. For those talking about how much he under achieves, watch witch line is out against his line, usually a top one and how productive they are. That is a big part of his production. Minutes at end of game tell far more than looking at lineups and saying he is only 3rd liner. Really Kane has been 2nd liner for years, you think he is a 2nd liner.

  91. Mo guys like Barrett, Entwistle, Soderllund, maybe Kurashev and Hagel (more scorers) are all close or ready to being contribute and add depth.

  92. Totally agree Ian. That’s why we got him back. He was a defensive forward that could score. A rare commodity. He was called baby Hossa. At the time of the trade for Panarin most pundits called this an even deal. More saw the Hawks winning the deal as Saad the better all around player and Panarin did not show up in the playoffs. Hey Panarin became spectacular and I believe Saad was emotionally rocked by being traded twice. As far as our blue chip D prospects I still see a catch 22 where Keith and Seabs are clogging 2 spots no matter how bad they play. They’re getting worse not better. But they are legends, Keith a sure HOF and Seabs so revered on and off the ice. A true leader. Gustafsson a young offensive force is prone to mistakes so they team him with Keith. Who now makes more mistakes than Keith. So who gets benched Gus. Here’s a novel idea pair him with Murphy or Dahlstrom. Well what do I know..

  93. I think we fans tend to have a bit of a myopic view of our prospects, plus most of us don’t actually see those prospects play regularly so our optimism is based more on hearsay than observation.

    I’m being a bit of a Debbie Downer but the so-called experts don’t rate our prospects as highly as we do and they’ve seen them play more than most of us have. We have some prospects that may be home runs but the odds are most of them are not. The hope is they develop into a player more so than they are good enough and ready now.

    I had high hopes for Sikura but the only thing he’s shown is he’s not physically able to overcome his physical liabilities of lack of strength and not elite skating. Fortin skates like the wind but that’s all he does. Soderlund has done nothing in the SHL for going on 3 years now. Nordgren can’t stay on the ice. Neither can Wise. Entwistle shows promise but he’s a bottom-6 guy at best and the same is true for Barratt. Kurashev may prove to be a middle-6 player but not a slam dunk. Boqvist is the best prospect but who knows if and when he will be ready to take the physical play of the NHL, especially with concussion history. Beaudin and Mitchell have a chance but their ceiling is probably middle-pair – not top-pair.

    We need our 1st rounder to be a difference maker, if not in 2019/20, then certainly by 2020/21. That would help solidify the forward lineup. However, our d-corps and goaltending are a bigger weakness then forward. I’m starting to think the emphasis on signing a top free agent should be a d-man, or two.

  94. It seems that there is a disconnect among a lot of fans and where the organization is headed. For all the people that are in the “trade Saad” group there seems to be one thing they say, he doesn’t produce enough. But lets look at the team as whole for a second. The Hawks are above average in goals for so far this year sitting in 13th, but are DEAD LAST in goals against. Yes more production may help, but what good is it if you can’t stop the other team? The old saying is “defense wins championships”. I get that you need to be able to outscore your opponent in order to win, but it is a lot easier to outscore if you only need 2 or 3 goals instead of 5 or 6 each game.

    Why would the Hawks want to trade a valuable defensive asset, which would hurt the already poor team defense, to get a one dimensional player? Wouldn’t it make more sense to build where you are hurting the most… which based on statistics and the eye test is clearly defense??

    Clearly goal-tending hasn’t been amazing this year but it also hasn’t been that bad either; it’s been average for the most part. When you have good team defense and average goal-tending the team should be okay, but when poor team defense leads to a goalie being on an island, its hard to have good goal-tending. We have been spoiled with Crows ability to stand on his head for a few years, but when he is out and average goal-tending steps in, we see how truly weak the team defense is…

    For this and many other reasons I don’t feel that the Hawks need to go all in on 1 dimensional scorers, 2-way guys that can produce but also play sound defense seems like a better path.

  95. ER- good post

    I will add… Gus- really is helping make JC/Powerplay look much better…
    I liked Q… But NOT skating Gus on PP#1 … was a BIG mistake

    WTS- Gus on D and stopping Blue line offensive entries… is Shockingly BAD!!!
    Proven by some advanced metrics

    SB- should look at trying to shop- Gus around- I am NOT saying trade him… but see what interest is out there….

    Seems like Hawks are deep with “Offensive D guys in system”… to replace Gus

    But as pointed out- very Weak- in Top D prospects- that can be “stopper’s” in the D zone/Blue line area… those advanced Metrics on Hawk’s D versus Canes D- and Hawk’s D- inability to actually stop entries- is AWFUL!!!

  96. I really believe the D has been slipping for a while now. Craw was standing on his head saving games for us. It was not only our D’men’s fault but our forwards not getting back. The loss of Hossa hurt dearly. Constantly losing puck battles did not help either. I’ve always had a theory about goalies. They need to be better than the opposing goalie period. If they lose 2-1 or 6-5 they still are a loser. Every goalie lets in easy goals from time to time but they need to make the game saving stop when it’s on the line. Not every Cup champion has a great goalie but when they get on a hot streak they make the big save. I have no clue either about our prospect’s talent. I need to see them in game action. Everyone looks good on a highlight reel. One question I have for y’all though is why on national tv we always seem to play with more urgency, win more board battles, use our sticks better and just play faster overall?

  97. Good debate on Saad. I’m on the fence. The goal he scored against Washington on Sunday was unbelievable. Yet, since this season is pretty much over with 30 games left, Saad is now approaching his contract year. Will he re-up with the Hawks ? What does he want Teuvo money ( 5+Million) per year. Is he worth that ?

    Playoff teams are looking for a power type forward like Saad will likely give a first round pick and a prospect. But those players will be years away. So that does not get us closer to a playoff spot in 2019-20.

    It’s a tough call. To me, the return would have to be WOW.

    On a different topic. Ryan Spooner is proven 40 point player. Hitchcock banished him in Edmonton. He’s not a $4 Million player. Strange situation. Would love his energy for cheap.

  98. Wall as was mentioned before having athletes on the blueline to match the speed and athleic ability of current trend of forwards is seems to be the goal. Thats who overwhelms you, the hope seems to be good athletes which there is an abundance of are what they need is the key. We have seen how speeds burns and causes problems. Give it time to see how it plays out. If you can bring speed with skill and athletic ability right through the lineup that could be your best defense.

  99. Craig, Saad is not approaching his contract year – he still has 2 more years after this season.

    Wall, got point regarding the PP. It’s like night and day with the new #1 lineup.

  100. Keith Seabs
    Murphy Dalhstrom
    Gusta Joki

    This is what we have so I don’t understand JC benching Joki. Leave the two champs together and let those other guys play and learn. You can have 2 and 28 or 56 and 7 as well.
    Kookoo dude is a little headless which is too bad because he can skate and has size but has no clue where he is on the ice.

    Trade SIKURA, KRUGER, and ANISIMOV for prospects draft KAPPO or Hughes. Sign Panarin and Nick Schmaltz in the off season! And get a Foligno/Neil type winger to play 3rd line!
    12 19 20
    72 8 88

  101. Since 2005 the team has picked Jack Skille, Michael Blunden, Kyle Beach, Mark McNeill, Ludvig Rensveldt, and Lyle Knott as power forwards drafted in the first two rounds (and, oh yeah, Brandon Saad). So we’re 1 for 7 and guys want to trade the one.
    Sorry, Saad may not be ideal but he is right now okay, still young, and could get better again.

    It’s a very tough position to fill. He is filling it. Leave well enough alone.

  102. ER, am glad you brought up Boqvist’s concussion history. I just looked this up. He had three concussions prior to the Hawks drafting him. This should be a red flag. What was wrong with Noah Dobson, no concussion?

  103. Referring back to ER’s question a while back re: a third centre for the top 9

    Maybe if Duchene doesn’t sign with Ottawa he could be on the Hawks’s list

    Toews, Duchene and Strome would be a very solid top 3

  104. Also agree that they should be looking at UFA D men

    Possibles (and I’m sure there’s others) would include Stralman and Gardiner – I’d be ok with either

  105. Original-Boqvists’ injury history is a concern, and with good d-men like Dobson and Bouchard available then went with the ‘eye candy’ type offensive skills that the Swede has. History will tell if it was wise or not.
    He has the potential to be ‘that’ good.

    One of the sites has him 6 feet-180–not sure he is! He looks really small beside Bouchard.

  106. Wrap… ironic u bring up the name Stralman…

    I recall reading an article… on UFA D signings when Seabs was extended… compared Seabs to Stralman deals… at same time… Stralman was a great sign… Seabs deal was HORRIBLE , in hindsight ( I called it horrible from day one)…

    either way… unless u can land a Stralman on $3M or under… short term… it will be yet another on the wrong side of 32 years old… declining D man… contract the Hawks don’t need

    No thanks

  107. “Trade SIKURA, KRUGER, and ANISIMOV for prospects draft KAPPO or Hughes. Sign Panarin and Nick Schmaltz in the off season! And get a Foligno/Neil type winger to play 3rd line!”

    Kruger will likely get moved. Anisimov is tough to do – 2 yrs left on contract $4.5M. Sikura who knows, lots of variables with him.

    Panarin highly doubt it, too much $ & too long term contract for a 28 yr old – they have those issues now.

    Can’t sign Schmaltz he’s RFA. Easy to look up before posting.

  108. When it comes to adding an elite FW. I say do it this summer. Next summer there are more top Defensemen available ufas, right? That would be time to do that, even if its more a need because theres more available to pick from/caphit helps some with that.

    For the high end top pick FW this draft. Sure when hes ready really doesnt matter, jus that hes good/stud.

  109. Row, you certainly can sign RFAs. The catch is signing them entails draft pick compensation to the former team, and it depends on the AAV of the new contract how many draft picks you have to give up.

    It is not often done in hockey, but the Hawks lost Niemi as an RFA to the Sharks after winning the Cup in 2010 for example. Certainly, after your team trades you for what they think is another player who is a better fit, it seems unlikely that he would sign back with the Hawks after that.

  110. Looking at the list of d-men that will be UFA this summer shows a lot of old guys and over-the-hill’ers – at least in terms of guys that can actually play solid defense. Nothing on the list as exciting as the top of the forward free agent list. One area that would help the defense is a forward that plays good defense and Mark Stone would qualify there. But that probably means we need to keep Anisimov because even if we are fortunate enough to win the Hughes sweepstakes, I have serious doubts that the 170lb 18 year old will be able to play center in the NHL right off the bat – maybe in a couple years … maybe.

  111. ER, Wise. Entwistle shows promise but he’s a bottom-6 guy at best and the same is true for Barratt. Kurashev may prove to be a middle-6 player but not a slam dunk.

    Thats exactly what we want and need. Bottom 6 guys with attitude and any good player that can be good top 9 player, Kurachev baby!

  112. Blackhawks have long been rumored to be after Duchene. There are lots of free agents this summer however none of them are a lock to sign with Chicago as you well know. Rumors are wild about Panarin back to chicago and why not?….I mean why not have rumors. The reality of signing Panarin is just that. He hung out with friends in Tampa this summer; why not there? If the Sharks can’t resign Karlson (woah wait; Karlsson to the hawks???) then the sharks will be after a big name free agent in all likelihood; would it be Panarin?
    All this stuff about him dissappearing in the playoffs; against St Louis he had 7 points in 7 games. Last year it seemed nearly every goal against columubs in the playoffs Panarin was on the rink; coincidnce or not that doesn’t reflect well-to be fair I only watched a few minutes.
    I believe Saad is only talked about for hypothetical trades because he’s the most tradeable piece in terms of value. We all just need something to talk about I guess as that’s all it is; talk.
    Clear to see Toews and Kane are still playing great; shame to waste what could be Kane’s best years here…..maybe the Blackhawks should move prospects for some immediate payoff players; not even sure who that would be; but it would have to be from teams on the playoff bubble or not in the playoffs at all. What team would it be and what player would I take a strong look at??? Dylan Larkin on the Detroit Red Wings.

  113. @Mike

    I know the rules Mike but as you say it rarely if ever happens and it won’t in this case, Schmaltz is not a guy they’d sign to an offer sheet.

  114. Young man, hear you. When we are stacked we are top 5 in GF and GA. We want that again/near it. How we get there who cares. Might be more wise to get what we can while we can, just be on time for the finnish line.

  115. 100% agree on not wasting T and K last few best years – that’s another reason IMO not to trade Saad but I digress

    With the idea of not wasting T and K then as an organization the Hawks need a combination of a high draft pick to be right (that could still be Boquist or whoever it is this year that they draft first – one of the two being a difference maker would do) and the right UFA signing (or two although one if it’s the right one, one would also do) and growth from the likes of Strome, Delia, Dahlstrom, Joki, Perlini, Gus (if he’s still here)

    That IMO would get us back to the playoffs and then take it from there

  116. Young man, I have no clue either about our prospect’s talent. I need to see them in game action. Everyone looks good on a highlight reel.

    excellent point and guys like Wall and others that arnt always right, are right a lot of the time are who I go with on that. I ve seen World juniors every yr for long time during summer camps, when maybe not going all out, you still can see the skill on each guys, that ‘plays’ during those tournament summer scrimmages.

    Thats why people here who get to watch live are valuable info for everyone of us.

  117. Batman and Robin arent going anywhere anytime soom, in terms of being elite. So what if their not dynasty beasts when 32-40, theyll still be like Hoss and two of them.

  118. Grey, why on national tv we always seem to play with more urgency, win more board battles, use our sticks better and just play faster overall?

    We always, since we got our team, played like shit or even when play good/better then other team did not do good in ‘The’ national wnnnnnnnnnbc broadcast games because the other team would get up for us, the dynasty team of first 20 yrs of cap era, and play their hardest game against us. Plus a lot of them were 1030 breakfast games to. Thats why I had a feeling after soooo many winter classics and these we would do well score wise. We did.

  119. ‘If you can bring speed with skill and athletic ability right through the lineup that could be your best defense.’

    Thats how TAM was able to stay with the 2015 Blackhawks superior team/roster. They had that new league wide team speed. It closed the gap.

    Then salary cap watered down the real top 5 teams or so. Then you have these teams like PIT and others who are really 6-10 quality teams look good again. Their not good/top 5 worthy good. They are 6-10 teams and there are no more top 5 teams, except TAM and NAS.

    It is coming back though, with TAM and TOR having to do contracts accordingly. Those teams will lose 3 good players each this summer. Then there will be aperiod of ‘anyone’ can win, like PIT did, for some teams. Maybe thats when SAN earns one or another one hit wonder like how FLR won for a team like CLB/or VEG.

  120. (draft Kakko, sign Panarin)

    Saad-Toews-Kakko
    Panarin-Anisimov-Kane
    DCat-Strome-Kahun
    Perlini-Kampf-Caggiula

    or (draft Hughes, trade Anisimov and sign Stone and Dzingel)

    Saad-Toews-Stone
    DCat-Strome-Kane
    Kahun-Dzingel-Hughes
    Perlini-Kampf-Caggiula

    or (draft either Kakko or Huges, trade Anisimov and sign Duchene and Dzingel)

    Saad-Toews-Hughes/Kakko
    DCat-Strome-Kane
    Dzingel-Duchene-Kahun
    Perlini-Kampf-Caggiula

  121. Love the speculative rosters ER – it’s fun to dream and maybe one of those or close to one of those comes true

    I also wouldn’t mind trade Keith and sign Gardiner in summer

  122. The look on the guys faces after game 7 ANA. Is what I am saying we are, when deep again. We did not go anywhere in 2011 and in 2017, we did not have a full roster. When we do, when we play, we play.

  123. I would sooner give some of the younger defencemen that are ready for the show some playing time next season. Staying playoffs hunt shouldn’t be to difficult and if it looks at mid season like being buyers is way to go, some good defensive rentals should be available for stretch run and playoffs.
    Get the forwards and goaltending in order in off season, continue trying to develop defence and assess the situation during season. Getting as Wall stated tied into a long term deal with a wrong side of 30 defenceman could be a big fail.

  124. I mean why not have rumors. The reality of signing Panarin is just that. He hung out with friends in Tampa this summer; why not there? If the Sharks can’t resign Karlson

    TAM has to get rid of three good players (so does TOR) and they add a elite FW/D that would be four players they have to get rid of. Not happening.

    Why would 72 go to a team that would have to get rid of 2 elite/quality players to add just him.

    In Chicago, which can add a caphit of 81 and 4, to boot a 72. With his good friend and someone he cares about.

    Not saying Blackhawks have Panarin back. The Chicago Blackhawks have the moves to add 20/21 m in ufas and the Bread Man and others are more then welcome. We did not create this ‘kind’ of for 3rd liners. We did for top 6 players to be a on a deep team with quality on the 3rd line like Saader.

  125. It just goes back to 2013 when red wings could not beat us without 40 hooks holds and interferences that coach get the league/refs to let them get away with. TOR is ffucked, even in a water downed leagued that allows a team like PIT to win, with goal tender interference on NAS.

    What garbage for the league and annoucers to let go unnoticed. After we still did what we did, they should get on their Flatlander knees for the rest of their tie carreers.

    I mean when you call a penalty on Saader after he got pulled down and a cheap fucking pussy shot to the head with skate boot by, that absolute pansy 13, in the head/helmet, what is that.

    DO YOU NEED ANYMORE HELP to be up in series. A very difficult 3-1 situation. Holy shit. FU rake off. Even with that, CRAP, you could not beat us, when it was evenly reffed.

  126. Not going to apologize after watching this stuff. It just stands out Even moar.

    You can see thow the kind of players we need to win the Cup. Even in this fast waterdowned roster league. Its just different and doesnt mean do not need those kind of guys. When you watch every game light, not just highlight, who do you see a lot. We see 16 67 20 81 19. Hey 19 isint a beast anymore. Holy if that Pansy from PIT took the, heat, hes a bookend 100 top player player of all time. Bookend.

  127. Watching the video it just shows you we need a guy like Shawzer. Look at what he did does. Its that attitude and 4 wheel drive that our jeeps have ground clearance.

  128. What are you guys afraid of. Jesus Christ. Do we need McJesus to win the Cup. F no. We need and have dudes like Tazer and Kaner. These are not divers like PIT players and lets hit a guy in the head with knee because I can, STABes. What kind of man does that take. One where the ‘****’ GM can keep the watered down team of all time competitive. Mean while taking out a great guy. If I ever see that Fucking Flatlander anywhere I am not allowed to say with dignity,

    gday.

  129. Sorry for saying things.

    Just respect true teams that earned it.

    Not like Yankees/PIT/first round bi s ers.

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