Patrick Kane, Blackhawks Dominate Flames

In the span of less than two minutes on the game clock in the middle of the second period, the Blackhawks blew out the Flames.

Chicago dominated the first period, out-shooting Calgary 10-4 and not allowing the Flames’ second shot on net until there were less than five minutes left on the clock. But neither team was able to find the back of the net.

David Jones gave the Flames a lead at 3:41 into the second period, finding a loose puck in traffic in front of Scott Darling and tapping it home. That would be the extent of the Calgary offense against a very good Chicago defense and excellent performance from Darling. But the Hawks offense would waste little time putting a bow on their final home game of November.

At 6:37, Patrick Kane tied the game with a wicked back-handed shot.

Only 63 second later, Marian Hossa unloaded a missile from the point and beat Karri Ramo for his second of the season. Hossa’s goal would hold up as the game-winner.

And just 52 seconds after Hossa’s goal, Kane found Artemi Panarin for what proved to be the nail in the coffin.

When the dust settled from a furious two minutes, the Hawks had a two-goal lead and the Flames appeared to be defeated. And, even though it was the Hawks who played a road game the previous night, the Flames didn’t appear to have anything left.

With only a few seconds left in the middle period, Brent Seabrook went to the room with a bloody face. He needed repairs but was back ready for the start of the third period.

Calgary put a push on early in the third period, but Darling was up to the task. He made 22 saves over the final 40 minutes and 25 in the game to earn a good home victory.

When Jonathan Toews scored into an empty net with 38 seconds remaining, Hossa picked up his second point of the night. Kane also had a goal and an assist for a multi-point evening.

Ramo allowed three of the Hawks’ four goals but really didn’t have a terrible night, stopping 37 shots in the loss. Unfortunately, the skaters in front of him didn’t meet the challenge of a healthy Blackhawks team. And, after a physical game in St. Louis on Saturday night, the Flames were exactly what the doctor ordered. Calgary was credited with 39 hits as a team but weren’t hard on the Hawks at all. Indeed, most of the game felt more like a preseason game from the seats at the United Center.

Toews led the Hawks with six shots on net and won 13 of 18 faceoffs in a dominant effort. He picked up one hit, two takeaways and two more penalty minutes in the game as well.

The Hawks’ big four defensemen were all over 22 minutes in the game, but only Duncan Keith went over 23 in the game. Chicago’s top pair of Keith (24:13) and Hjalmarsson (22:35) finished with three blocked shots each. Seabrook (22:25) and Trevor van Riemsdyk (22:31) finished with a team-high four blocked shots each.

Ryan Garbutt racked up eight hits in 10:14 to lead Chicago, while Andrew Shaw picked up seven hits in 14:17.

Tanner Kero had another nice night, winning seven of ten at the dot with two hits and two blocked shots in 13:30. Marko Dano, once again skating primarily with Hossa and Toews, only got on the ice for 11:35 but was credited with two hits and one takeaway.

The Hawks begin their Circus Trip in Edmonton on Wednesday night.

98 thoughts on “Patrick Kane, Blackhawks Dominate Flames

  1. Patrick Kane- still good at hockey.

    Was listening to the flames radio feed during intermission. Said Kane was the best player in the league other than Carey Price…who’s hurt. They were also gushing on Panarin. After the second they pretty much threw up their hands and said what do you do when you have 2 lines with the potential to go off like the Hawks.

  2. That was fun and a nice send off to the circus road trip. Darling didn’t see many quality shots but stopped them when he did, including a couple times his d-men served up a big juicy pizza for the Calgary player to go one on one with Darling.

    Isn’t everyone feeling better about the Hawks now? It’s not just the wins but the sense that the team defense is back to what it needs to be … I’m thinking #2 has a lot to do with that.

    I don’t know if it will last all season, hopefully it will, but man-o-man is it fun to watch the 72-15-88 magic show. When they get going it looks like we’re on a PP, kind of similar to when the 20-19-81 line was rolling last season. That’s fun hockey – well, at least for us Hawks fans it is and I suspect neutral observers too.

    I like Kero. Hopefully he keeps getting his number called and eventually he’ll pot a couple.

  3. Kudo’s to Ramo as well as that 3rd period was quite the wide open affair with a ton of scoring chances for us and a lesser goalie could well have been shelled. Johnny Hockey plays like Kane, what a pistol he is. Enough of them…Hossa’s goal was amazing, Kane’s goal sensational and Panarins a thing of beauty. It’s coming together. The chemistry is bubbling…the catalyst was Keith. Q must be happy, although I think coaches cringe at the pay in the third. Off to the west and the coast. Lots of viewing coming up! We got to beat the Canucks and the Anaheim game is going to be fabulous to watch.

  4. NHL network only cares about one thing, who has the longest/best record. I wonder if someone told them those teams play against weakest/er division/conference in hockey if they would understand/or even speak it (out loud).

    Tell it how it is, ya fuck.

    ‘Running other way, is just plan chicken shit’ (Steve Prefontaine).

  5. I’m a proponent of splitting Anisimov-Panarin and Kane. I have to say “screw that”. That line is way too much fun.

  6. The team seems to be jelling. Looking forward to the Circus trip. Daley is a little scary on D. Patrick Kane has been playing incredible hockey….. Along with 72 who is a wizard with the puck & 15 who had been a beast. Like watching Kero. Seems to be gaining Q’s confidence. 57 is coming into his own. Great last two games to watch.

  7. Dano- played his best game as a Hawk…

    65/16/86 – looked good

    Darling was fine… BUT really has to get with Goalie coach and work on NOT over sliding/losing net… Flames could have easily potted 2-3 goals on wrap arounds…

    Flames… WOW- they really looked bad… very surprising, considering last year, and some of young talent…

  8. wall – About Darling. I’ll copy/paste one of my posts from yesterday.

    “I was watching the Jets on the TSN feed. At one point they talked about Pavlec and how he changed the pads. New pads, different brand.

    Now this new brand of pads were much more slippery and he has been trying to adjust to the change and still had troubles doing it. Of course… that’s the reason he changed them…wanted to be more “all over the place’.

    I’ve never thought of than. Never knew there’s such a variety and difference between different GK pads. Silly me…I guess.

    Why did I think to write it here ? First…it’s an interesting thing and second…. the Hawks GK have these new black pads. Did they only changed the color to get more early ‘lost vision of the puck’ calls or did they changed brands or pad styles ?

    Maybe somebody knows and can clarify that for me.”

  9. I think once the dust settles w/ the blue line finally being healthy, these lines could be a lot of fun – and very productive. Let’s give it a few games but I’ve liked a lot from Dano at LW1 and Teravainen w/ Shaw & Kruger. Mashinter can go away any time; time for Desjardins to reappear

  10. DumDum… thx

    Re: Pads… I didn’t even think about slide factor… I noticed the “color” change in Pre-season… besides looking cooler… I wondered if there was a reason… and thought to myself. Does it make it harder for the “O” player to locate loose rebounds??? AND- another advantage, might be- Refs loosing site/quicker whistles to end plays???

    On the negative side- D guys might have hard time clearing pucks that “blend in”

  11. Tab _ I don’t like Mash either… but Desi has not been the same (other than couple shifts)… I go with Tiko… wonder if Danault will get a shot when he recovers??? Or Kero has leaped past him… or- SB plays Danault/Kero together (assuming full recovery for Danault)…

    Mash was fine last nite… But- Flames do not look good right now!!!

  12. re: wall – Desjardins hasn’t been the same as…..? How much of him did we see last year to make an appropriate comparison this year?

    The reality is, Kero is playing well and winning faceoffs and, now, has found a role on PK duty. Those were roles Desjardins was brought in to help with… it appears the organization’s depth may have made Desjardins expendable. another body that could be traded soon.

  13. Desjardins is the type of player who helps you win in the tight games and the playoffs. I like having the veteran depth and I think the front office and coaching staff agree.

  14. Does Hossa’s shot go in if 65 is not creating havoc in front on Ramo?

    Please look at more than Andrew Shaw’s stats before proposing that he be packaged with Bickel and Rundblatt in a trade for …

  15. Hossa’s shot goes in because the goalie had to move laterally and his release is too damn good.

    Much more effective player in transition. If you watch any of his highlight reels, especially of his time in Daytoit or Pitt basically every goal involves the goalie having to move laterally and not being able to get over in time.

    The Toews stuff from down low and the Hossa shot off the half board has become so freaking predictable that every goalie in the NHL knows they just need to cover half the net when those guys are out there.

  16. Tanner Kero had another fine game. I love this overachieving kid. He is forward version of van Riemsdyk and very clear he is rapidly earning the trust of Quenneville. Kinda sorta get the feeling that Kero may be groomed to fill the Kruger role at some point since Kruger will become less and less affordable. Go Michigan Tech hockey !!

    Mashinter up here is smart. Brings a little bit of physicality and his presence keeps Des Jardins and Garbutt honest, knowing that they need to work hard each and every game to stay in the lineup. No problem with Mashinter up here. Not like he is gulping a lot of salary. Apparently Tik is on this roster to serve as Russian interpreter and little else. I’ll defer to Quenneville’s judgment.

    An important game for Darling I thought. Needed a good outing to get his confidence back in order, especially as we hit the road for two weeks.

    Like Dano on the top line for now. He seems like the best candidate for the role given our forward options. And he also seems to be getting his sea legs. Toews needs two wings who can get it going. Nice also that Hossa had a good game. Father Time is catching up with Hossa, but he still is a great two way player and can rise to the occasion like he certainly did versus St. Louis. He is the classical “big game” player at this stage, which is a good thing.

    Shaw and Hjalmarsson had very strong game last night. Very underrated performances in fact. We all are guilty of taking for granted Hjalmarsson. Without him I don’t know where we would be.

  17. Shaw has been improving but to think he’s untouchable is naive. With guys like Hartman, Hinostroza, Ross & even Rasmussen in Rockford, he’s a guy who’s young, affordable and has enough of a championship pedigree to bring a nice value back.

    Am I advocating a trade of 65? No.

    But we need to admit that there are only 4-5 guys on this roster who are untouchable and he isn’t one of them. And, with other financial considerations coming next summer, he’s a FA who might have more value elsewhere.

  18. Rufus- I agree that Daley has been less than good in the D zone…

    However- he is the left handed version of Seabrook (who seems to have a great knack/ability to join the rush and get high quality chances…) yes, Daley has yet to score… but really- a matter of time before he does… he could easily have 4-6 goals right now, considering the quality of his chances (like Dano could have had 3 goals last 2 games)… But, that is what Daley brings to the table… knack/desire to jump into that rush.

    Question still is… can the Hawks afford that luxury $$$ for 5th D/ skating 13 min.
    OR- might they be better off w/ moving him and Buying 1st LW or “D first/D man”???

    I think the road trip will do a lot to help answer that question… If Dano- plays like last nite in next 6… I am content w/ 56 on 1st… if he plays like anything before…
    The question is still there…

    I am not suggesting immediate trade of Daley… Just throwing the question out there.

  19. Dominate not really but a nice bust of 2 minutes! Who to trade or not blah blah Ff i’m GM Marcus has some value and could be repalced except at the DOT where he is very good but he has value a lot to Hawks and in Trade. Hawks will not consider trading Shaw, they can’t his hole is un-fillable someone is smoking crack again. Hawks beat a struggling Flames Team. ( these Ben Smith look a like we hear about are just that ho hum)

    Puck will drop for DANO his speed and quickness to the puck great. Also he might be the perfect fit on line one! I notice the Spacing in the offensive end is perfect with Dano, they work well as a unit, tight, close in and create offense with short passes. Dano is always in good position and has almost every time closes out and add support with great timing. Dano is da mano! That 3rd line is still liming along. I am still all in for GARBUTTTTT he is a poor mans hossa and a Bick ( inhey day) replacement, just needs to find chemistry, he is great at leaning into the NET and taking the PUCK to the net, Coach Q and I love that, he’ll be around! Plus he has some REAL speed too.

    Hawks defense still looks pretty solid and Daley is coming along. slowly. Hammer sadly still going down to far below dots on offense when he leads the rush and keeps getting STUCK. He is too good and smart for that, needs to make quicker decisions, no need to carry behind the net no reason. LIKE HOSSSSA finally he made a snap judgement to shoot not drift off in a game of keep away!,finally, jez!

    go hawks

  20. Victor Tikhonov will be there in JUNE if not next week. Tiki can flat out play, really a great role player with some serious mad skills, Coach Q knows what he’s is and got and will have Tiki on the third line soon. Dano is the real deal and really takes up a lot of space on the ice he will finish at the net this week! Dano has Speed and Size and pretty fucking tuff dude in the crease! The Artist is the Artist and he is just warming up! Dezi can be replaced and will be, the AHL is not going to help this year. period.
    go hawks
    Not sure a trade is coming too early . . .Hawks are right where they though they would be, the sleeper! Playing okay . . . and we don’t need another AHL stand in, in trade . . .

  21. Trevor Daley costs A LOT OF MONEY for what he is, and that’s part of the problem. Not to mention he is terrible fit for what the Hawks try to do. I’m not going to get into a pissing argument, but it is clear the Hawks had to involuntarily take on Daley’s contract to get Dallas to take Sharp. And if there were a way to unload Daley then he would be gone. I just don’t think there is a way. He makes a lot of money for what he is and there aren’t other NHL teams lined up to take him off of our hands.

  22. Trevor Daley’s cap hit is $3.3M. There are 96 defensemen in the NHL with a larger cap hit than Trevor Daley.

    It’s worth reminding folks that Garbutt has been a nice addition who happens to be getting paychecks from both Chicago and Dallas this season as well.

    Was the Sharp trade a complete win for the Blackhawks? No. Was it a biblical mistake (see: Minnesota – Barker, Cam)? Absolutely not. Now that Keith & Rozsival are back, let’s give it more than 2 games to see how the dust settles and how Q uses his d-men before Daley is considered an absolute loss.

  23. wall – the only positive thing of the black pads is the refs stopping play earlier because he lost sight of the puck.
    The negative is that the shooter sees where the crotch crease is because the pads are black and the ice is white. When you have white pads the shooter lacks that clear visual spot.

    I posted about the Crawford-Darling pads earlier, but I see that Tab sent my post to the shitter. I’ll recap.

    Crawford indeed has changed his pads brand. He was using Reebok and now he’s using CCM. This is exactly what Pavlec did.

    Darling has a new version of Brian’s sub zero. He went from Brian’s II to Brain’s III. These seem the pads of a GK who likes control as Halak was used to design the pads and he’s a ‘stay at home/ controlled motions’ type of GK.

    So…to answer your question and my question. It doesn’t seem the pads of Darling are the reason for him “over sliding/losing net”. But they are new pads and there might be an accommodation period. He hasn’t played much though… maybe he was out of sync. We’ll see as we go along in the season.

    Now Crow on the other hand uses pads that Pavlec finds more slippery that the previous one. From Reebok to CCM.

    Interesting stuff.

  24. Daley hast’ been a liability and that’s all That matters. Especially with the performance of Van Riemsdyk as an Elite 4. Daley on the 3rd pairing can do a solid job and that’s all that matters.

    Shaw is the best role player the Blackhawks have. He is -most likely- a very important locker room piece. He’s not going anywhere.

    The Patriots, Blackhawks and Spurs are 3 teams that elate the importance of the role player. The role player is a key component of their success. Shaw is the best role player the Hawks have. He is as locked as they come.

  25. Let’s not condemn Trevor Daley. He came from a team where he was asked to do everything. He had to play major minutes on D, be a HUGE part of the Dallas offense AND score goals.

    Now, he comes here and has to be a regular player that can contribute when necessary or whenever he can. That’s a big step down. He just needs time to adjust. He’s a (+ -) 0, so he’s not hurting us, but he’s not helping that much, yet. Give him time, the guy can skate the puck out of danger and he is a good play maker.

    Playing defense on the Hawks is a WORLD away from playing a forward wing position on the Hawks. Trevor Daley will be fine. Would you rather have him at 3.3MIL or Rundblad at 1MIL?

  26. We need to bank cap space now that 2 and 32 are back. Have the extra guys on Rockford roster bring up anytime/to save/bank cap space. I think the long road trip and then Bowman makes the moves, he has said before he likes to trust the player to start to play as good as they are in due time.

    Good stuff on the goalie pads, is the material new (and or just different) or has there been that options for a few yrs now. Crow went to the black helmet already, maybe just didn’t do pads at that moment so he had plenty of time/games to get used to/break in pads/gloves, etc.

    Crow is, back in black.

  27. The Sharp trade HAD TO BE MADE. Everyone gets that Tab. Take a second to get over your ego and READ for a change. My POINT is that the Hawks got steamrolled in the Dallas trade. And it is not Bowman’s fault because he had a gun to his head by the name of “salary cap,” and HAD to make a move to find SOME savings.

  28. I read all of your comments, Rufus. No ego involved. You haven’t made a fresh point re: the Sharp trade since September. We get it. You hate Daley. Perhaps if you read my response you wouldn’t need the caps lock as frequently…

    Daley isn’t great. Garbutt isn’t an All-Star. The deal had to be made. But I’m not writing the deal off as a complete dumpster fire yet because I, unlike come, have the patience to see what this team looks like fully healthy for more than 2 games.

  29. Morrison – on a limited internet research I haven’t found much on how different pads are different from other brands regarding their adherence.

    All you can find is views about the design as in how cool they look, why the black pads are somewhat of a no-no and the sponsorship angle (Crow changed brands because he got paid).

    I’m interested and I’ll keep searching. As I’ve said before this started for me from the TSN feed of a Jets game where the announcers talked a bit about Pavlec’s adjustment with his new, more slippery pads and his tactical decision to go with more slippery pads. Pavlec told them about it, it wasn’t them making assumptions.

  30. “Take a second to get over your ego…” ?? The pot calls the kettle black, methinks. That was a good laugh!

    “You haven’t made a fresh point re: the Sharp trade since September.” Nodding in agreement…

  31. Tab- the point isn’t about Daley making $3.3M… and 96 D men making more than that…

    How many of those 96 D men skate as 5th guy for around 12 minutes a nite???
    And of those that do make that much… how many of their teams have 2 guys getting paid 30% of the team/cap?

  32. Tab, Can you get a “like” “dislike” button for each comment? Cause I think that would be awesome! It would add fun dynamic to the blog.

    I don’t have much to add that hasn’t already been said so I’ll explore a few tangents.

    I agree that TVR is a very good 4 Dman. I’m not going to say “elite” but he could be in time and health. I’m very pleased with is all around game, solid D, crisp passing and joining rush/cycle. I really like the guy. I’m considering getting my Dad his sweater for Christmas, he was born in 57 and it’s his favorite number. However my next sweater will be Anisimov!! He quickly becoming my 3rd favorite Hawk!

    I’ve been telling my friends that I think this team will be better than last years team. Just need some time to gel and develop…

    Also looking around the league, which is not discussed much here, I think Dallas and Washington are for real. I hated Ovi for years, now I kinda like him. His game is way more team oriented now. Dallas is more mature with better goal tending and veteran presence. Other than hawks of course, those would be my east and west cup teams this year thus far.

  33. Kyle, I agree with you about Dallas. I’ve watched just about every one of their games so far and they are good. Don’t know if they’re the real deal, yet. Lots of high scoring games. Their D still leaves a bit to be desired. Oduya has helped and Klingberg is developing really well, but the rest of the group is lacking IMO. I’ve had to force myself to watch them since I still can’t get over seeing Sharp in that pea soup sweater. He’s looking awfully good off the hop this year, though, much to my dismay.
    And we’ll see if Ovi and his minions can get over it this year. It all depends upon whether or not he can finally play a team game, as you say. My brother lives in suburban Baltimore so I get my fill of Ovi news from his kids. We’ve tried to make Blackhawks fans out of them…little ingrates…

  34. re: wall asking “How many of those 96 D men skate as 5th guy for around 12 minutes a nite?”

    I counter with another question: on how many teams is Daley a #5? The reason the Blackhawks have won 3 Cups in 6 seasons is because their top 3 defensemen is the best group in the NHL. Daley average north of 22 minutes per game last year and scored 16 goals for $3.3M.

    Apologies if I don’t ignore context. There are probably a dozen teams in the NHL where Daley is skating 3-5 more minutes per game than he is right now w/ the Blackhawks easily.

    But, for the sake of humoring the conversation, I’ll answer your two questions.

    Rob Scuderi is 37, has only one assist more than Daley, has a bigger cap hit than Daley ($3.375M), and is averaging 16:43. And, obviously, Pittsburgh has a top-heavy payroll.

    Brad Stuart, 36, has no points, has a bigger cap hit than Daley($3.6M), and is averaging 14:00 per game for Colorado.

    Mark Fayne, 28, has one assist, has a bigger cap hit than Daley ($3.625M), and is averaging 16:14 per game for Edmonton. Andrew Ference has a comparable cap hit, has produced nothing, and is averaging minimal ice time as well. But the Oilers haven’t been forced to open the banks for their kids quite yet.

  35. Well, Wall, they DIDN’T with the wraparounds. Let’s forget about the could’ves, since they didn’t happen.

  36. Mr. Rufus is correct — Sharp HAD to be traded. However, the problem w/ Bowman lies in the fact not who he got back in the trade, but that by trading Sharp to an own DIVISION team, he changed the entire complexion of Dallas’ team. Sharp should have been “given” away like Campbell.

  37. Campbell wasn’t given away. Hawks had to take back Olesz. At that time contracts still could be buried. I have confidence Bowman took the best deal possible.

  38. Tab, “November 16, 2015 at 6:10 pm re: wall asking “How many of those 96 D men skate as 5th guy for around 12 minutes a nite?”

    I counter with another question: on how many teams is Daley a #5? The reason the Blackhawks have won 3 Cups in 6 seasons is because their top 3 defensemen is the best group in the NHL. Daley average north of 22 minutes per game last year and scored 16 goals for $3.3M….”

    If you had “a “like” “dislike” button for each comment” (Kyle’s suggestion), this is definitely a “like”.

  39. All the teams in the Central are great and it will be a battle right until April. I’m not completely sold on Dallas yet as their PP percentage is at 29.8% even with Seguin and Benn I don’t know if that is sustainable and they did lose to the Leafs twice lol.

  40. Tab- Re: the 3-4 D guys skating bottom minutes and making Fat stacks…

    thanks for helping me prove my points
    1st not many guys get paid that much… to skate low end minutes = Can the Hawks afford that luxury… by the way those teams aren’t going anywhere.

  41. Rat- yes he is… but that’s not the point… he gets paid a lot more – to be the 5th guy…

    can the Hawks afford it…

    and I really like what Daley brings to O/on the rush… I could see Daley scoring 4-5 goals in a 10 game stretch pretty soon…really… BUT- I can also see him riding the bench in PO’s/Q giving him 10 minutes or less (like Leddy)… because Q does not trust him…

  42. Wall says:

    “Rat- yes he is… but that’s not the point… he gets paid a lot more – to be the 5th guy…

    can the Hawks afford it…

    and I really like what Daley brings to O/on the rush… I could see Daley scoring 4-5 goals in a 10 game stretch pretty soon…really… BUT- I can also see him riding the bench in PO’s/Q giving him 10 minutes or less (like Leddy)… because Q does not trust him…”

    Wall, it is November. November. Things can change a thousand times between now and the end of the year. This team just got healthy. How about giving it a few games to see how Quenneville and the staff deal with the defense before advocating shipping some guy out of town.

    Will you please have a little patience? Every day it’s a new guy to trade, a new guy they can’t afford, etc. Exhausting.

  43. The question with Daley is not where he is now but what is his upside with Hawks. His stats (and performance) for his 1st 18 games with the Hawks are about the same as Oduya’s.(end of 2012) As a veteran, Daley has gotten primarily saddled with – Runblad, Gustafsson and now Rosy. You can’t tell me that had he been paired with one of the top guys he wouldn’t have looked better.

    Anybody who remembers how Oduya got torched by the Coyotes in the playoffs in 2012 did not think he was gonna last. The next year after that, Oduya got paired with Hjalmarsson and poof! – he now is more fondly remembered.

    I have always maintained that Daley is a 2 year younger version of Oduya who can also play on the PP (and who costs 500k less) If he ends up playing 3rd pair minutes because Van Riemsdyk can cut it, so much the better. Can anybody say they liked our 3rd pair better last year? Remember – Cumiskey, Erixson Timonen, Clendening, Dahlbeck

    The Hawks did not get steamrolled in that trade, they traded an aging (though still good) high priced winger for two useable NHL players and 2 million of cap space. When February rolls around this will be a non-issue or if he gets traded for an even better defensive upgrade that works too. Either way the Hawks win.

  44. Kyle – van Riemsdyk has been an elite 4 this season and there’s no reason to suspect a drop in his play because he isn’t doing anything out of order in regard to the type of player he is and the type of style he employs. He’s just playing hockey. He has 40 NHL games under his belt, so he can also improve. Health is his only potential red flag.

    An elite 4 is a Hawks 4 meaning that he is solid, smart and versatile. Well he is. He has played left-right, with Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson and carried another Dman on the 3rd pairing. Also PK… key component for a Hawks 4.

  45. 57 may have been elite so far (read I think he’s elite) I’m just not ready to say it yet. I love the kid. I see a perfect compliment to hammer in him. I see a mix of 4 and 7 in him. I hope he’s a Hawk for years to come. I’m just holding my breath a bit on him… I’ve been wrong before.

    I’m getting tired of the Daley argument. The facts are there and we just need time to see it play out. I don’t think management expected TVR to develop this well into our #4 which may make Daley expendable… But I’m glad he’s our #5, how many teams have that kind of talent, experience and potential in their #5dman. Not many. Also I think Bowman wanted him in the trade. He said he wanted NHL players in return.

    Dallas is nasty. I remember Tab saying last year preseason that they were going to be good. Their management has done a good job. Like the hawks, I see them built to last. Of course we can take them in a 7 game playoff series though.

  46. I think this argument about how much the 5th Dman is getting paid (or costs at a cap level) is rather weak and childish. Low level.
    But if you want to make a point… make sure you’re not basically shooting yourself in the foot and prove on your own that you’re not very knowledgeable. In a world…don’t be silly.

    Lets take the other 3 conference semi finalists from last year:

    NY Rangers:
    One of Kevin Klein or Keith Yandle is their 5. the other is the 4.
    Kevin Klein- $2,625,000 cap space
    Keith Yandle-$2,900,000

    they also have Dan Boyle as their 6 (best case scenario) at $4,500,000.

    Tampa Bay Lightning:
    One of Andrej Sustr or Braydon Coburn is their 5. The other is the 6.
    Braydon Coburn- $4,500,000
    Andrej Sustr- $1,450,000

    Anaheim Ducks:
    One of Simon Despres or Clayton Stoner is their 5, The other is the 6.
    Simon Despres- $900,000 (extended from next year at $3,700,000)
    Clayton Stoner- $3,250,000

    Bottom line…facts in hand… the Hawks pay a bottom line Dman the same or less than the other ‘elite’ teams do. Also pay the 3rd line pair the same or less.

    Thing start taking a blatant turn when you add the 4+5+6 of these top teams:
    The Hawks: 5+M
    Ducks 5+M
    Rangers: 10M (wtf ?)
    Lightning 11,5M (they call it a ‘whooping’ 11,5M cap hit)

    PS: Stop bitching, please. The only thing that matters is not having liabilities on the blue line like last year. Competent, solid, 13-14 minutes/night, turnover free 3rd pairing during the playoffs is good enough. You want Keith, Hjalmarsson, Seabrook, TVR on the ice as much as possible, anyway. All you need is not to have panic attacks when the 3rd pair touches the ice.

  47. Kyle – thanks for the “like”
    Regarding all the cap discussions it has got to be clear that the Hawks are playing a 2 year game regarding all their contracts. Look who is coming up next year (only Shaw and Kruger) versus 2017 – 9 guys including Panarin and Teuvo. Can they sneak another cup in the next two years? That would be great but tough.

    However, if during the next two years, they can find their new additional “core” pieces – that is what’s critical for the “next wave’ and real long-term success. (age wise in 2017-18 – Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hjalmarsson will be on the downside of their careers and Hossa will be 39) You won’t be able to find just role pieces to put around them and still win a Cup. New stars will be needed.

    I think they will have found those guys on offense – Panarin, Teuvo, Dano, Schmaltz but they still will need 1 or 2 young guns on defense. It’s why Pokka is critical (and also why keeping Leddy would have been nice). They don’t have any high-end potential defensemen in their system. They are going to have pry one away from somebody in the next two years.

    I want the Hawks to go for it in the next two years but not at the expense of being good as the core gets older. In 2 years, Bickell, Daley, Rosival, Tikhonov, Garbutt, Desjardins, Rundblad, Mashinter will all be distant memories. Who they find and how much they pay those new guys will determine if we get to enjoy another run of Cups.

  48. Hawkfacts, great post. The most level-headed evaluation I’ve read yet.

    Can we sneak another Cup in the next two years? I say, yes. But a whole hell of a lot will have to go our way to do so. Namely a sound back end with no injuries, and that includes the goaltending. The young talent will have to emerge and make a difference now. Panarin is already there, TT will be there, and Dano has the IQ and the skills. We’ll see.

    Ernie’s point about Panarin’s bonus money is a good one. Does anyone know the specific numbers he has to meet to earn that extra $$?

  49. I like TvR but I don’t think he’s even close to being an “elite #4”. I’m not clear on what an “elite #4” is, but if the intention was to say that TvR was one of the best “#4 d-men across the league, maybe that is a little closer to something I could agree with … but even then I would need to go down the list of #4 d-men and gauge where TvR is among that group. I’d be surprised if he were in the top-10, let alone the top-5 where he may be considered an “elite #4 d-man”. I think TvR is “solid”, meaning he doesn’t make (too many) mental mistakes or get rattled under pressure and most of the time he makes a good solid play. He also has good offensive instincts knowing when to jump into the play and what to do when he does.

    But he is average at best in the physical attributes – speed, quickness, size/strength. And therefore qualifies more as solid then any form of elite, in my book.

  50. Don’t forget about Dan Boyle. 3 assists and when he plays he gets more ice time than Daley

    Regarding Timonen, his salary was 2 million with up to 1.5 in bonuses. He reached the 10 games played bonus to bump his year end total to 2.75. Obviously his 2 million hit was prorated. For those 16 games it looks like he cost 1.14 million

  51. Panarin has 2 types of bonuses. A schedule (A) bonus(es) worth 850k. And schedule (B) bonus worth 1.725.

    Schedule A bonuses are not to exceed $212,500 each. And Schedule B bonuses are not to exceed 2 million. Generally schedule B bonuses are end of year awards (Calder,Hart, Vezina etc), but could also be player/club agreed upon.

    So, Panarin has 4 Schedule A bonuses. What specifically is needed to reach those bonuses is unknown. As is what is needed to reach the Schedule B bonus.

    At his current rate I’d be willing to bet he hits more than a few of those. Hell he probably has already.

  52. Good analysis on the Panarin contract.

    Also, right on the money about a two year window. All hell breaks lose (again) after the 2016-17 season when it comes to the cap. That’s why we will need a constant drip of good “just a guy” role players like van Riemsdyk who help is for a few years, then become too expensive to retain and we need the next wave behind him. In terms of the sexier players like Panarin and maybe Teuvo, fair also to think we have two years max of their services before they become WAY too expensive to retain.

    Can we win a Cup this year? I don’t think so but never say never. Can we win a Cup next year before the next crisis? I like our chances with Bowman manipulating the puzzle pieces.

  53. Were going to be for a awhile.

    The Bowmans, longterm, longterm, longterm.

    Then we will reload, reload, reload.

  54. HawkFacts – Re: top d prospects – don’t forget about Gustav Forsling who is playing in the Swedish Elite League. He is the guy we got in the trade for Clendening. He had a very strong performance at the World Juniors last year and then got hurt. This year he has 10 points in 18 games for one of the better teams in the top Swedish league. He is still only 19 so I expect that he will be back at the World Juniors this year (along with Nick Schmalz for the US). You never know how a prospect will develop but this kid seems to have some high end offensive skills.

  55. RTY, “players like Panarin and maybe Teuvo, fair also to think we have two years max of their services before they become WAY too expensive to retain.” — OR, by that time they have established themselves as the next wave of “core players”, and someone else is moved…?

    “I like our chances with Bowman manipulating the puzzle pieces.” — agree.

  56. EbonyRaptor – I told you what an elite 4 means for me. It means a bona fide Hawks 4.
    A true Hawks 4 is an elite 4. Period.

    Take Leddy for example. He was the 4th best Hawks Dman while playing as a 5 and he went on to be a No. 1 pairing for a playoff, very good team. Got paid huge money. Look at Oduya and his role with the Stars right now, another playoff, very good team. He got paid very well also.

    I think TVR is an elite 4 because in his 40 NHL games experience he has already shown he can play Top line, shut down line and carry somebody on the 3rd line. He can also play left and right, kill penalties.

    All this with the Blackhawks not some shitty team. For Coach Q by the way… who hates youngsters (talk about clueless fans).

    PS: I understand your reluctance though. Fair point. 40 NHL games… so few on them.
    My mindset is that… he jumped development steps like they weren’t there…why wouldn’t I -as a fan- do the same ? I judge what I see… I’m not projecting anything else… positive or negative.
    Why do I have to go with the ’40 games are such a small sample’ version…instead of the ‘are you f-ing kidding me ? He has reached this level of play after only 40 games ?’ version ?

  57. Dickie, that’s what I am talking about reload 72 replaces 10 for a decade of prime yrs and prime sniping.

  58. Let’s not get carried away on TVR. He has done a nice job and rapidly earned credibility with Quenneville. But he is “just a guy” in the final analysis. He’s not big, is average skater and not really above average anything. But he is absolutely getting the job done. But he will be replaceable when he gets too expensive and is precisely the type of interchangeable player that will come and go. Just because he is playing top 4 don’t anybody be stupid enough to classify his skill and impact anywhere remotely in the league of Keifh, Seabrook and Hjalmarsson.

    And I don’t want to read revisionist history on Leddy. Yes, Leddy had skill. A lot more innate skill than TVR. But he was a 5th man in our defensive pairings on the best of days. He can skate really well. But defensively, or in terms of what helped this team win 3 Cups? Not so much. Losing Leddy was ok. Because once he got past a certain salary point it was time to say goodbye. Tab, moderate this please.

  59. I think TVR is about where Hjalmarsson was at at that age. They play different styles, but their contribution to the team is similar. Was Hjalmarsson “elite” then? Who the hell cares. Let’s just enjoy TVR’s ascension.

  60. Saads inner Hawk was showing tonight. Saads stick came up as Lehtera was falling. Left Lehtera bloodied. He left the game and went to the hospital allegedly for his throat.

  61. DUMDUM, fair enough. As I stated – I like TvR and he has the cool demeanor of a veteran who’s been around the block and doesn’t get rattled, makes good decisions, etc. So – I like him. But, I think he is very average when it comes to speed and strength. Obviously other d-men have learned how to compensate for those shortcomings and I trust TvR will too, if he hasn’t already. But, to me, that will always keep him out of that “elite” status. But, he is still a good NHL d-man and will get better with more experience.

  62. “I think TVR is about where Hjalmarsson was at at that age.”

    Hjalmarsson averaged 19:40 in 77 games for the 2009-10 Stanley Cup Champion Chicago Blackhawks as a 22 year old.
    TvR is averaging 20:22 so far this season… as a 24 year old.

    Was Hjalmarsson “elite” in 2009-10? To many onlookers, no. In the eyes in San Jose that signed him to an offer sheet? Yes. In the eyes of the Chicago front office that, in spite of the additional cap headaches it caused, matched said offer sheet? Yes.

    That’s why Bowman makes the money he does to do what he does and why we’re on the interwebs re-writing history to make a point (in theory)

  63. Tab, I could be wrong – I’m no expert, just a fan. But I think Hjalmarsson is faster and stronger than TvR, then and now.

    If someone were to give TvR the $3.5M offer sheet that Wilson gave to Hjalmarsson in 2010 – would you match it? I don’t think I would because I don’t think he is worth that – at least not yet. Maybe by the end of this season he proves he is worth it, hopefully he stays healthy and does.

  64. Rufus – for you TVR is just another guy. We get it…. you screwed up your ‘read’ another time.If there’s somebody who shouldn’t talk about jumping to conclusions that’s you.
    Leddy was a 5 because the Hawks had Keith, Oduya and Leddy playing the Left side exclusively with Hjalmarsson and Seabrook on the right. So basically it was a head to head competition between Leddy and Oduya for the 4. Coach Q preferred Oduya near Hjalmarsson for various reasons.
    My point is that Leddy isn’t a 5. He played 5 with the Hawks because of the depth the Hawks had and because the coached liked another pairing more. He was a 4 (at least) playing the 5.

    I used Leddy as an example to relate my view on how a Hawks 4 is an elite 4 by definition. Leddy had troubles playing the 4 for the Hawks ! He’s a top pair/huge money guy now, for a very good team. That puts in perspective the level at which a true Hawks 4 must perform.
    TVR looks very much as a Hawks 4 which by definition makes him an elite 4.

    Tab – Hjalmarson is an elite Dman, period. He is an elite 2 if you want to put a label on him. I wouldn’t put TVR in the discussion with him and I never did. I said TVR is an elite 4. There’s an obvious difference there.

    I also think it’s a little bit hard to judge Hjamarsson’s 2009-2010 full season with TVR’s start of this season.
    First of all Hjalmarsson was in the system for 2 years already doing IceHogs-Blackhawks back and forth with all that entices. He also was already playing professional hockey against grown men for a number of years back home in Sweden.
    Van Riemsdyk was a 23 years old college FA who jumped right into it last year. Did a very good job, then he got badly injured.

    So… is it fair to say that possibly, if TVR would have had prior professional experience as a teenager, then went for 2 years in the Hawks system and he wouldn’t have got injured…maybe he would have played last year (as a 23 years old) at the level he is today ? I mean…maybe. It’s a legit possibility. He wouldn’t have matched Hjalmarsson’s 22 years old level because Hjalmarsson is obviously a better player, but he could have had a legit 2nd pairing Dman performance.

    One thing I can tell you. Back in 2009-10 I would have called Hjalmarsson an elite 4, the role he basically played, right ? He was a 4 at the end of the day. And I would have been a proponent of matching the offer sheet for sure.
    In hindsight, you can see the trend…when Coach Q loves a young player that guy becomes a real player. You could know shit about hockey (which I basically do), but if you use this simple principle you’ll know who’s the real deal and who’s not.

    You don’t have to know the player and have the knowledge to read his play…all you have to do is understand how the Coach thinks and operates. Same thing in other sports…I knew Malcom Butler of the Patriots will be a stud from their last year’s training camp. All you had to know is that he plays Special Teams and Belichick devoted an extra CB depth spot in order to keep him. 1 year later he’s a Superbowl hero and their No. 1 CB. It’s really not a surprise at all.

  65. I dont know if its accurate to say San Jose thought Hjalmarsson was “elite” when they gave him that offer sheet. Look at Oscar Klefbom, he signed a 7 year deal worth 4.167 AAV. Is he worth 4 mil plus? No, But Edmonton thinks he will grow into it.

    At that time he was 22, had a little over 100 NHL games played and was a solid 2nd pair D-man. Didnt score a ton, but was already a shot blocking machine. I’d be curious to know the average salary of a second pair d-man. I’d venture to say that offer sheet of 3.5 per is pretty close.

    Now, TVR has played in 40 some games as a 24 year old. So its tough to gauge age for age. But for 925k this year. and 825k the next 2 after this. I’m just going to enjoy it.

  66. Dumdum – I have to support Rufus re: Leddy. There is no question regarding his talents but come playoff time Q stapled him to the bench. If you recall he was playing single digit minutes in several games. So on the Hawks he was a 5 even though he is a top pair guy for the Isles. If you watched the playoffs last year he still struggles in heavy physical contests. We have a ways to go to figure out where TVR shakes out but we can all agree he is a very pleasant surprise this year.

  67. MS – Yeah… I watched them against the Caps last year and all the Dmen kind of slipped by the end of that nasty series.
    They were in the same situation the Hawks found themselves in after the Wild series. They played a 3rd pairing of AHL youngsters in the last 2 or 3 games after Visnovsky got wasted and suffered a concussion.
    Plus, that top pair had to do everything all year long…. including 1 unit PP, PK, big minutes night in night out. Everything.

    Look…you have to understand that Leddy being a Hawks 5 only makes my case. Which is that a Hawks 4 is an elite NHL 4… by definition. Leddy, the Hawks 5, is an elite 4, if you sell him short. I see Leddy as a good 2, great 3 and elite 4.

    My point is that if the Hawks wouldn’t have had a 4 like Oduya, Leddy would have played that role. In the last whatever years they had Byfuglien playing Offense and guys like Hjalmarsson and Oduya as the 4. The depth is so impressive. The standards are off the charts.

  68. Keep reading the Hawks are wanting to trade Daley (shocker!) Finally have read something tangible. Looks like Garrioch of Ottawa has talked to some Sens Execs. They said IF they were interested, the Hawks would likely want a 2nd and Shane Prince or Matt Puempel.


  69. Dumdum- our point is that while Leddy could skate and put up points. Come playoff time when everything is turned up a couple notches, when everyone finishes their check. When everything needs to be tighter. He couldnt be trusted to play meaningful minutes. Some guys turn it up and play better in the playoffs, some guys go the other way.

  70. I’d challenge anyone to name a NHL team that has an “elite” top 4 or whatever absent any holes that the respective team’s fan base is completely satisfied with. Let alone one that hasn’t spent stupid money on a guy that may or may not have upside.

    They can’t magically add blue line help for free or fair. Will probably have to overpay for anything in that department. Same for LW if they go that route.

  71. Ernie – I agree whole heartedly, TvR at his current salary cap and even more so the next two years when his cap hit is even lower – he is an outstanding value. He is an NHL d-man and even if I’m not totally on board that he is an “elite #4”, he is good enough to one of the starting d-men who can be counted on and for that cost it’s a good deal for the Hawks.

    I’m more concerned about him staying healthy than I am with his play on the ice, which has been pretty good.

  72. You guys all missed my point on Leddy. It’s in regard to having studs to take over as the older studs lose a step. The Hawks let Leddy go when he was 22. The Hawks will need a guy like him in 2 years when Keith turns 34. Leddy still is only 24 (the same age as TVR). A bridge contract was very doable at the time in that 4 million range. As for Leddy’s stats they speak for themselves, last year at 23 he finished 16th in the Norris voting, drove a monster Corsi and had 37 points. In the playoffs he had 5 pts in 7 games and a 54% Corsi while playing the top pairing. He is good and getting better.

    Great teams are built on difference makers and supported by guys like TVR. My point was where are the “next” set of defense difference makers needed in a couple of years? Re Forsling, MS I hope you are right.

  73. After losing Game-7 against LA in the 2014 WCF (when, btw, Leddy went to retrieve his stick while the puck was still in the Hawk’s d-zone and was therefore late getting into position to defend against Martinez’ game winning goal), the decision point was which d-man should they keep – Oduya or Leddy? They chose Oduya and traded Leddy and I would argue that decision proved to be the right choice because Oduya was one of the “four horsemen” that rode the Hawks across the 2014/15 Cup finish line. Whether it was the correct choice for long term is irrelevant when the result was winning the Cup. Who among us thinks 2-4-7-Leddy could have done what 2-4-7-Oduya did? Count my vote as a resounding “no”.

    Would it be nice to have Leddy this year? Sure. But it was worth it to do what was done.

  74. In addition to Gustav Forsling who was mentioned above, the Blackhawks have a Leddy type guy in their system in Luc Snuggerud playing defense for Univ. of Nebraska Omaha.

    Will he develop into the player Leddy is? Don’t know, but he skates like him, just a great skater.

  75. Ernie, But for 925k this year. and 825k the next 2 after this. I’m just going to enjoy it.

    MS, We have a ways to go to figure out where TVR shakes out but we can all agree he is a very pleasant surprise this year.

    Oh Yeah,
    Doo, bow bow,
    Oh Yeah,
    chick chicka chicka

  76. They traded Leddy because he would fetch a better return. Also, I believe Oduya had a broken foot and had an overall down year. Leddy was also getting more expensive.

    Also that play where Leddy was picking up his stick. It was slashed out of his hand by Justin Williams. But Kenny Albert said “Leddy lost his stick”.

  77. re: bringing up the Leddy/Oduya debate (again)


    It’s over. They won another Cup post-Leddy and will hopefully/probably win another one post-Oduya. They made a decision with the short & long term financial health of the organization in mind and it didn’t cripple anything or anyone. Move on.

  78. & Hof brings up a couple really good young names we haven’t seen yet in Snuggerud & Forsling.

    Another guy we may come to like (a lot) soon is Dennis Gilbert at Notre Dame. He has 5 assists & 14 blocked shots thru 10 games for the Fighting Irish and is listed at 6-2 & 200 lbs as a teenager. REALLY good young player if you get a chance to watch ND any time on NBCSN or elsewhere.

  79. See what happens when we don’t have any Hawks on? We go off on our own and debate meaningless things until Tab drops the hammer.

    I think Tab like Dennis Gilbert. Not sure on that though

  80. Tab………I am STILL upset about the Phil Esposito trade!! We got robbed!! We would have won 3 Stanley Cups in the 70’s with Phil. I’m pissed!!!

    Also, why did we trade Everett Sanipass? Another budding superstar we could have used to win a cup!!

    Don’t get me started on Ken Yaremchuk!!

    Only 4 1/2 hours till game time thank god!!

  81. Let’s not forget some other promising prospects like:

    18 year old Roy Radke (6’3″ / 200lbs) playing for a very good Barrie team in the OHL and has 11 goals in 19 games.

    19 year old Fredrik Olafsson (6’2″ / 200lbs) playing at Nebraska-Omaha with 4 goals in 10 games.

    And don’t look now, but 19 year old Nick Schmaltz, having a nice start to his season playing at North Dakota, has 13 points in 12 games.

    Just to name a few.

  82. I too am very optimistic on Dennis Gilbert and yes, he looks pretty good for a freshman at Notre Dame. Solid player and good size … the Buffalo hockey fans (where he’s from) were rather upset after the draft when the Sabres didn’t invest a draft pick on him.

    On Phil Esposito … I was 6 at the time and yeah I am still shaking my head at that one. We lived in western Iowa for a year when that deal was made (May ’67) and my dad got the Hockey News in the mail which I think is how he found out. He was pissed! And he is still crabby about it.

    But yes, the overall point about Leddy is correct. The Blackhawks made the right choice for last year and won the Stanley Cup – that makes it all worth it and for me, trumps any and all second guessing.

    On Schmaltz … his stats are a bit padded by a 4 point game where ND trounced whoever it was they played and won like 6-2. From what I hear he hasn’t been that noticeable in other games but this is from a guy who sees all their games but has never been a Schmaltz fan, calls him a prima donna. Everyone has an opinion.

  83. If Leddy were on the Hawks right now he would still be 5th on the depth chart. Sure, he has skills and gifts that a guy like van Riemsdyk definitely does not. But Leddy was very replaceable once his price became too high. And we have not missed him a single bit. I’m happy for him that he can thrive in a lesser hockey environment. He’ll never be a top pairing on a serious legitimate Cup contender.

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