Kane vs PIT

UPDATE: Patrick Kane Case NOT Headed To Grand Jury

UPDATE: The Buffalo News is reporting at lunch time on Tuesday that a grand jury will not hear the Kane investigation. More as this develops…

The investigation involving Patrick Kane in Buffalo will be reviewed by a grand jury starting Tuesday, according to The Buffalo News.

According to the report, the accuser and Kane likely will be invited to give testimony to the grand jury, which also will review medical evidence and hear testimony from police and witnesses. Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III, the woman’s attorney and Kane’s attorney all declined to comment.

163 thoughts on “UPDATE: Patrick Kane Case NOT Headed To Grand Jury

  1. The results of this will likely provide a timeline on any next steps in the Kane sage. If the grand jury finds substantial evidence to proceed criminally consider Kane very unlikely to be at next weeks training camp and his career very much in doubt. However, if the grand jury doesnt find enough to proceed criminally I wouldn’t be surprised to see him in camp with the rest of his teammates issuing a statement and getting back to business. Hawks fans should stay tuned on the results of this proceeding.

  2. There is a political aspect to this that shouldn’t be ignored. The DA has political aspirations and this is the safest path for him to take over and above the N.Y. statute for all felony charges to be brought before the Grand Jury. In other words, this gives the DA political cover whether he has rock solid evidence that a felony was committed or not even enough evidence to get a misdemeanor conviction. The only way this wasn’t eventually heading for the Grand Jury was if the evidence showed the accusations were verifiably false. So the only thing we can infer from this is that the accuser is not without credibility.

  3. It’s news, but its not really news. We all knew this was coming. The DA has an out either way with a grand jury.

  4. Now that the case is NOT headed to the Grand Jury, there are really only two conclusions to be made. One, the DA is prepared to file criminal charges. Two, the DA is prepared to dismiss further investigation, which would strongly suggest to me that Kane and the alleged victim have come to a behind the scenes financial settlement.

  5. Looks like Kane and his lawyer brokered a financial settlement with the victim. Without making a political statement it sickens me that somebody with deep pockets can often times buy their way out of criminal charges. Not every woman is a gold digger and I guess we will never know the truth here. This now clears the path for the Hawks to trade Kane before the season. Unless Bettman intervenes and issues a league suspension.

  6. If the DA were going to file felony charges, the GJ is a requirement unless the defendant confesses.

    Therefore, either the charge is going to be a misdemeanor or the accuser and Kane have agreed to a settlement – of Kane confessed to the felony.

  7. I hope that Sad Panda meant, “…clears the path for the Hawks to trade Bickell (and Versteeg) before the season.”

  8. Tab and many others on the board have been very fair in saying that any conclusion would be premature as would be any reaction by the Blackhawks. And that probably is the right reaction, but not if they’re just being a “Kane apologist” or willing to damn the team image just because of who the accused is.

    But this board is great and well supported by people with strong opinions, so I don’t think it’s premature or over-the-line in saying “IF x THAN I THINK y” even if someone’s off-ice actions made these discussions about personal behavior and not their play on the ice.

    So If we assume that the investigation is just dropped as the latest rumor suggests, how does anyone think the Blackhawks will handle this? I still see this is as a public relations nightmare for the Blackhawks image and I don’t think they can respond like it didn’t happen. Or does the NHL intervene and take the Hawks off the hook with a suspension? With or without knowledge of a financial settlement? Do they play it down with…more Patrick Kane bobblehead promotions? Or confront it head on with… Kane kissing booth?…or do they take a hardline approach #whatsyourgoal “keep it in in mypants”?

  9. Totally agree with Sad Panda even though the “king of the blog” was laughing out loud. As soon as they can the Blackhawks will trade his ass.

  10. I’m glad for you, Brokerwayne. And thrilled that Sad Panda has confidence. And if the Hawks trade Kane immediately, I’d be willing to bet a few dollars both of you will cry like babies at the perceived lack of value they get for him coming immediately on the heels of this investigation.

  11. Whatever the Hawks get for that turd will be fine with me. He doesn’t deserve to wear a Blackhawk sweater!

  12. In my opinion and my opinion only, the Hawks will trade Patrick Kane. I’m not saying I agree or disagree. But his days in Chicago are over.

  13. Reminder:
    The NHL did not suspend Semyon Varlamov.
    The NHL did not suspend Drew Doughty.

    Point taken…so maybe Kane just takes the hit with fewer endorsements, fewer community honors and fewer 88s in the stand. But given the salary he gets to keep, it still seems like a WIN WIN for him.

  14. Totally agree with what Sam Fels just wrote:

    “On a theoretical level for fans… well, that’s even harder. Personally, I don’t want it. I don’t want Kane to ever play a game in the United Center again. And that includes any possible trade and coming in with a different uniform on. I don’t want it. I don’t want to have to question who I am or what I am every time the Hawks take the ice. I don’t want to watch a large section of fans give him a standing ovation on his first step onto the ice on Madison, whatever he’s wearing, and have to wonder if I’m the same as them. I don’t want watching hockey to turn into some moral referendum in my own head. It was easy to scoff at others, Steelers fans or Lakers fans or Kings fans. And now it’s here with us. I don’t want it. Also, maybe even more so, I don’t want it because I know with time it gets easier and easier to compartmentalize and acquiesce. It gets easier to stop asking yourself those questions. It gets easier to cheer the goals and assists and let all of this fade into the background. I don’t want it.”

  15. Why don’t we play “Let’s Make a Deal!” If all were fine and dandy in Hawkland what would be good compensation for Mr. Kane? A Stamkos or Ovechkin straight up? How about Eberle and Rienhart, Ekblad and Huberdeau or any others out there?

  16. In my opinion and my opinion only, there is zero chance the Wirtz family will retain Patrick Kane. None, nada, zero. He is gone.

    I”m personally sickened by this whole saga and will never forgive Kane. Never. And yes, I strongly suspect he did commit a sexual crime. But that doesn’t matter because I’m not a judge or jury. And if the victim/accuser is willing to accept a big fat financial check in return for dropping things, then not a damned thing I can any longer say about it. Other than a punk with a big fat checkbook can buy his way out of trouble. The solace I will take is he no longer will wear the Blackhawks jersey under any circumstance. Some of you way, way underestimate how unsettling this matter has been for the Wirtz family. They have been the victims of Kane’s promises and lies. And they don’t have to any longer tolerate, nor will they. Rocky has worked too damned hard on building the brand in the wake of his father’s ruinous management style to think otherwise. Rocky won’t be swayed. Peter Wirtz and his sister won’t be swayed. And neither shall John McDonough. Kane is gone. So best que up the comment board to handle the flurry of discussion soon to follow on the brand new players and prospects to join the Hawks.

  17. Brisson sounds to me like a guy who knows a conclusion is near. His most interesting comments to me were where he said the most interesting part is reading and listening to people who have said Kane has done this, he’s done that when they don’t really know. But that is the world we live in.

  18. Neither Brisson nor Kane’s lawyer have spoken publicly–until Brisson spoke today (I’m assuming that was from today). The same day the grand jury was postponed. I believe this speaks volumes. And he’s stating that he thinks Kane did nothing wrong. For him to go this far and speak this publicly suggests complete confidence on his part that his client is off the hook. Therefore, I think either a settlement has already been reached, or the agent and lawyer have gotten a sign from the DA that there are enough problems with the case that it might not got forward.

  19. ^ Vested interest or not, I found his comments on that subject interesting. People who want to jump to conclusions usually do, which is why I commented that’s the world we live in. That’s all.

  20. Perhaps the grand jury will not be hearing the case because they have no evidence to indict Kane. Perhaps Kane is completely innocent.

  21. +1 to Hofmeister.

    & to Rufus’ comments – you are certainly not alone in being sickened by the accusations against Kane. And you’re FAR from being alone in assuming guilt. But to assume Kane’s played his last game wearing the Indian head is at least premature. The accusations against Drew Doughty weren’t an immediate ticket out of Los Angeles. And the accusations against Varlamov weren’t an immediate end of his time in Denver.

    Will Kane finish his contract in Chicago? I doubt it. Will he be traded before Opening Night? For adequate value? We’ll see.

  22. I really don’t know if Kane is guilty of rape or not. It doesn’t matter to me from a standpoint whether or not I believe he will be, or should be a Hawk. He is an arrogant punk who predicted his immature behavior (best case scenario) at the parade. I hope and believe he will be traded before he plays another game in a Hawk sweater.

  23. If Kane were indeed in innocent then talk of a financial settlement wouldn’t be in the air. And surely if he were innocent and knew that his hockey future in Chicago depended on he himself being the victim, then why wouldn’t fight this to his death in a court of law. My conclusion? He sexually assaulted this woman and had no choice but to let his financial might do his talking assuming the victim was amicable to a deal.

    Kane is done in Chicago. He might have saved himself from a criminal trial but he can’t save his career in Chicago. I guess in his mind a small price to pay.

  24. I fully agree with Hawks fan 1961 above. What sickens me is how quickly people turn on someone when a complaint is made. Not even a formal charge. Just a complaint to the police by some unknown person and all these posters assume Kane is guilty and want him off the team etc. etc. As far as I am concerned if there is no criminal charge and thus no conviction then he did nothing. End of story and we are back to hockey and Kane should be on the team and not traded just because of some unproven allegations. I will be there on the night the banner is put up and I will cheer aggressively for Kane because that banner wouldn’t be there without him. If he is convicted of something that would change my opinion. If he is formally charged with something I would wait for the evidence and see if he is convicted before forming an opinion. I believe in the legal process. Anyone can make an allegation. For those of you speculating and claiming Kane will be buying his way out of a crime I say there is no hard information on a financial settlement and even if there was one it wouldn’t mean Kane was guilty of anything. In fact, it might support speculation that he is a financial victim.

  25. What Sam Fels wrote (“On a theoretical level for fans… well…”) sounds a little like a self-important gasbag, in my opinion.

  26. J R Roman, “Why don’t we play “Let’s Make a Deal!”…Ekblad and Huberdeau” – I suggested this earlier. It probably wouldn’t fly because of the salary discrepancy, but it’s a shot at a “fair value” return, in my opinion. (Kesler and Perry would work IF they and Kane were approximately the same age…also, only my opinion.)

  27. Hof- Talk about “agenda’s”!!! lol

    Like many here thought…. Kane will buy his way out of trouble… (how much/degree of “trouble”… is he actually guilty of… we will never really know)…

    But- at the end of the day- SB/Hawks actually do have a legit out of Cap issues moving forward… Would the Hawks be better off next year with the #1 or #2 pick Plus $2-4 mill role player for Kane ??? + $6-7M in cap space to land a Ladd or other UFA???

    I don’t know… but it will surely be an option!!!

  28. The whole incident, the fact that Patrick Kane can’t, or refuses to steer clear of these situations is really a sorry state. Do you never forgive him? Even if he come back contrite and works at his substance abuse along with getting therapy? Many thoughts about this young man, and what a shame he’s repeatedly making some bad choices.

  29. ^I have a hard time following what you mean. Explain if you want to, the comment about agenda. I have none and if that’s what you’re implying, you’re wrong yet again.

  30. Call me a bad person, but I hope Kane issues an apology keeps clean and wins another cup for the Hawks.

    There are only a handful of people that actually know what happened and Im not one of them. Put him on double secret probation, get him professional help and hope he gets his shit together.

  31. I wonder about the impact of this whole thing on young Patrick. Is he in shape (for this year)? Will this effect his performance/confidence on the ice short term/long term? Will he be the same brash, edgy player that makes him great, or will he slip and be a small player with good, not great skills?

    I assume/hope that he’ll be in rehab for his drinking and whatever other challenges he’s dealing with.

    Seems to me many of the other Hawks have made the transition from young punks to professional men with families. Not sure he has or will make that transition, and I wonder how that’ll impact him.

    Could it be that we’ve seen the best of him and it’s time for a trade?

  32. 88 can’t stay out of trouble. And this time he apparently opened up his bank account to slither off the criminal hook. I don’t think he gets traded. Rocky let Bobby Hull back into the family business, a man that used his ex wife as a punching bag and many people knew it at the time. Wirtz will figure that fans upset about Kane raping a woman will get over it quick. He will become yesterday’s news soon enough. Wirtz is banking on that. There will be no acting on principle by the Wirtz’s.

  33. Kane buying his way out of trouble? Obviously, he wants to get thru this as fast as possible – and maybe, guilty or NOT guilty, a settlement is much quicker than a long drawn out legal process…possibly why he would prefer not “fight this to his death in a court of law” (again, guilty or NOT guilty) (Sad Panda)? Who knows, he may even be playing hockey in the NHL this season?

  34. Oh, I don’t know. I’d say it’s clear Kane crossed the line with this woman. Otherwise he would take on the fight and defend himself in a court of law. Not pony up a bunch of money to convince her to drop matters.

  35. These are weird times.
    There’s been talk of whether Wirtz would get rid of Kane etc. etc.
    Yes, we know that he got a “legend” back into the organizational fold in Bobby Hull, despite his wife beating transgressions.
    This, however, is also the same Wirtz who pressured Comcast to fire Susannah Collins because of her “Sports Nutz” videos of four years earlier, because of them (and her) not being what he wanted associated with the team (now this is a dig, but I absolutely could NOT STAND Susannah Collins….thought she was an absolutely horrible sportscaster/commentator, whatever…but I didn’t think she should have been fired for her on-air slip up and her past videos….I just thought she should be let go at the end of the season because she was not very good).

    So….with those two situations as benchmarks of sorts, who the heck knows what will happen? None of us.
    I get the feeling that this is going to be one of those situations, regardless of the outcome, where us plain folk just never know the real stories involved. It’s gonna suck, because there are always going to be doubters either way. As sports fans, we’ll just have to try not to be so attached and hopefully get to a point where things eventually settle into a reality and what happens on the ice is most important. Kane and the women are the real losers here. No matter who did what, and for what reasons, it’s all just so unnecessary and unfortunate. Our lives aren’t compromised, but theirs are. Regardless of who did or didn’t do what, these people are going to have a cloud over them from here on out. And unless they are complete sociopaths, they will suffer because of it. Again, just sad.

  36. Oh Earl. I would say you don’t know, because you don’t. People settle cases when they are innocent all the time. Thats why other people make false charges/claims. We don’t know the truth here one way or the other. What we do know is that legally Kane is innocent until proven guilty and so far he hasn’t even been charged with a crime.


    um …

    OK, so we don’t know what the evidence shows because we don’t know what the evidence is yet.

    But, don’t let that stop you …


  38. Well, that’s a neat convenient and naive way to look at the Kaner mess. We all want to try real hard and convince ourselves that Kane is stand up human being and is being railroaded by some bitch trying to get rich on his celebrity.

    If Kane were truly innocent then he would be fighting tooth and nail to defend himself. He’s not doing that. Rather he’s gone radio silent and had his sleazeball lawyer working behind the scenes on a financial deal to make the woman and her allegations go away. There can be no other plausible explanation, especially when 88 has a checkered past and can ill afford trouble off the ice by order of his employer the Blackbawks.

  39. The press is just as bad Ebony. They can’t wait to pass moral judgment even before the authorities decide whether to file a charge or not. They are already pressuring the Hawks to dump Kane. This Hawks fan says Noooooo Waaaaaay!!!!! Follow the rule of law and stop with the speculative character assassination.

  40. Pitchforks still? No one outside of the inner circle of the case truly has any idea of what transpired. Even the police and attorneys mentioned he was involved in the case, but the Defendant jazz was all our lying sack of shit USA news.

    I still reserve my vote until I know the truth.

  41. Even if he buys his way out of this with a settlement, the Hawks brass can still trade him. He can have a morals clause in his contract–put there as an out for the Hawks if he gets smarmy again–that they can exercise and be done with him once and for all.

    If they keep winning, which is possible even if he goes, they can remain a classy organization that does things right. They got some new blood coming in that can be very solid. They can free cap space like Wall said and pick up a high pick and a great free agent like Ladd. That can get them right back to the winners circle.

    So it could work out even better for them: they dump their unsavory problem, rebound, and remain a classy juggernaut.

  42. Flatliner, you forgot the part where he might be innocent. So by presuming guilt without evidence you give up on one of the top players in the world and if he is innocent you send the message to your team that you don’t stand behind them when they are falsely accused for marketing reasons and to satisfy the vigilante moralists out there. No thanks.

  43. Pete, I understand your point of view. However, I’m not calling him guilty or innocent. I’m just saying that the Hawks may have reached the point where they believe he’s not worth the hassle anymore.

  44. Fair enough Flatliners, however IF he’s innocent he’s not an “unsavory problem”. He is the victim. For example, the press jumped all over Toews for saying they are sticking together as a team. I’m sick of that type of moral pressure from the media. The fact is anyone can accuse anyone of anything. The legal process is there to protect all of us. We need to respect that process and I don’t see that happening here.

  45. Pete, I think the Hawks brass at this point considers him to be an unsavory problem, whether it’a bogus money grab or not. And like any other for-profit business, they need to consider public relations and how they are viewed as a whole. Unfortunately for Kane, his past behavior is causing this matter–in which he may be innocent of any wrongdoing–to tip the balance against him. I bet the Hawks aren’t seeing this as just this incident (“Is he getting shaken down or is he a rapist?”) Instead, they probably view it as “yet another” event/moment/incident in which he’s brought ill-repute to a proud organization. And it’s exhausted their patience and they’re ready to be done with him. Just my speculation, of course.

  46. If Kane were legitimately innocent then it is in his massive best interest to fight these allegations with every ounce of his being. Instead it appears he has reached a financial settlement with his accuser to make things go away. How in the heck do you think Mr and Mrs Blackhawks fan to react?!? Particularly in light of his sordid history? Kane is going to be skewered in the court of public opinion. Wirtz and McDonough need to distance themselves from the circus and salvage the brand they have worked to build. Kane has become enormously too polarizing a figure to keep around. Keep in mind also he was given previous stern warning that any more off the ice issues weren’t going to be tolerated.

  47. “Kane is going to be skewered in the court of public opinion” with a number of the lead cheerleaders commenting here.

    Let’s wait for things to sort themselves out before assigning blame/guilt on anyone.

  48. Trade his ass. He’s not innocent of being stupid. He gets up and says that he will act like a punk and sure enough to he does just that. All this innocent talk is quite remarkable!

  49. Mr. Kane is innocent until proven guilty. Is he guilty of a lapse in judgment ? Probably. I will give 88 the benefit of the doubt. Some of these remarks I read here are ridiculous to bordering on slander!

    Pragmatically speaking his image will be rejuvenated and he will remain a Blackhawk.

  50. Brokerwayne clearly is struggling with the reading comprehension part this evening.

    I didn’t say he was innocent. Unlike many, including you, I haven’t assumed anything.

    What I did say was wait until things play themselves out before throwing around judgement.

    Which, of course, is the option you’re clearly declining. Frequently.

  51. Yes, my sarcastic CAPS-enhanced rant was aimed more at the mob (i.e. court of public opinion, including many Hawks fans) than at those who get paid to spread rumors … er … I mean report facts.

    There seem to be some that are convinced that he is guilty. There seem to be others convinced he is innocent. Both groups of mind-made-up people have the same facts, or lack thereof, and yet somehow they have divined the “truth”. I wonder what the one group of people think of the other group of people? Probably don’t them in high regard. And both groups would be correct in that regard.

  52. If any of us were Rocky we would simply want to know the truth to come to the right decision. The Blackhawks have their own private security, investigators and folks who can see through the nonsense without being hampered by protocal or posturing. It’s reasonable that, for sure, they have information not available to the public. Rocky’s actions will speak louder than words. It is now moving to a resolution and decision. We shall see which way it tips.

  53. I haven’t read many people saying he IS innocent. There are people saying he is guilty and there are other people(such as myself) saying let the legal process play out because so far no charges have been filed, limited (if any) facts are known and he COULD BE completely innocent.

  54. Rufus, if Kane is innocent and chooses to fight this in court, he would certainly clear his name in some people’s minds. But stop and think for a moment. What if the evidence isn’t enough to convict him but there is no evidence that the accuser is lying either. It would come down to a he said – she said with the jury not having enough evidence to convict. Would “everyone” believe Kane was innocent in that situation? I don’t think so. I think there would still be a goodly percentage of the court of public opinion that would think Kane was guilty and got away with it, So even if he fought it in court with the objective of clearing his name – it wouldn’t clear his name entirely.

    So is it worth it to spend the time and stress to go to trial to clear his name to a small percentage of people knowing that many more people still either think he’s guilty and got away with it or aren’t sure one way or the other in the same way they wouldn’t be sure one way of the other if a settlement is made?

    Kane is like a corporation facing a lawsuit. They can fight it in court and win but it will take time and cost money in legal fees and lost revenue. I can see why Kane would agree to a settlement rather than not be able to play hockey during the time the court proceedings drag on. If he’s innocent, he would want this behind him as soon as possible and probably be willing to pay for it to go away quicker than going the court route would take.

    I just don’t think agreeing to a settlement is an admission of guilt. It could just as easily be the cost he’s willing to pay to get this in the rear view mirror so he can resume his life.

  55. Tab, I have noticed that whenever someone disagrees with you they didn’t read what you were saying correctly. Isn’t it possible that they just don’t agree with your opinion? In this case that’s the story, Jack!

  56. Kane is an adult who at he very least made another poor choice, perhaps he committed a very disturbing act. Some may be right that his days are numbered. I’m also troubled by the lack of voice by 88.
    But to say he’s done in Chicago is premature, He is a game and team changer. The next week will be telling. Luckily it’s up to the NHL and the Blackhawk management to determine next steps (and the legal system if warranted).
    Thanks Tab for you reasoned responses.

  57. I rue the day the internet created a platform for stupid speculation. It’s so fucking boring. Does anyone have facts they can share? Real facts? Not your opinion of the Writz family values, or the machinations of the legal system as it applies to young, rich, bratty, superstar athletes, which none of you understand or can explain without a cut and paste from a Wikipedia entry. Unless of course you’re an attorney with experience dealing with cases involving rape allegations, in which case I would love to hear your point of view. The only thing we know is that Kane is not guilty until proven so. He may be innocent, in the legal sense of the term, or he may not. A money settlement has many possible meanings, and perhaps we’ll find out which specifically applies here. In the meantime, I hope to see him skating for the Hawks in the not too distant future. And if not, then so be it.

  58. No doubt one of the main points of a settlement would be a complete confidentiality agreement, meaning all sides would agree not to speak publicly about the incident in question. So for those who are “waiting for the facts to come out “. We the general public will likely never know the facts. That’s the cost of what Kane did or did not do that night. For him obviously a very costly night at the Sky Bar on Chippewa.

    If there is a settlement, there will never be consensus on whether he sexually violated the woman or it was consentual. The woman will never talk. Kane will never talk about it and you will get drips and drabs out of Buffalo about “I heard he did this, I heard he did that.”

    By avoiding the criminal process, Kane will have paid a price for keeping the potentially lurid details from getting out. His hockey career will go on.

  59. If a settlement is reached it would only mean in my mind that the case was a shake down.
    From my point of view a rape victim doesn’t settle her rape case with the rapist for money.
    If somebody rapes me I don’t want his 2-3 months salary. I want his head on a fucking sword. I want him in jail, exposed and/or dead.

    PS: People saying Kane did something wrong (as to the official facts that are known today) are a bunch of losers that are letting themselves be driven by their own flawed pathetic, inferior vision of the world. If any, there’s evidence Kane took measures against being put in a precarious position…by hiring a Police Lt. as his bodyguard/shadow while he’s ‘home’ in Buffalo.
    If I would be that rich and famous, an obvious target -so a potential victim of rape accusations, con jobs, robbery,… – I’d wire my house with cameras and only have sex in those rooms. Nobody would know I have that shit, but me.
    I’d never have sex while not on camera. Every heterosexual male, even those with limited life experience, should know from early age what some ‘women’ are capable of. For me it happened while I was 18. I had a friend who wanted to dump his so called girlfriend. What she did was fake a pregnancy and said she had an abortion. Like in a 3-4 days period. Monday he wanted to dump her, Tuesday she announces pregnancy, Wednesday abortion, Thursday he can’t dump her because she’s mentally unstable and he’s also fucking ecstatic she saved him from becoming a baby daddy at 17 years old.
    It was obviously a fucking farce, told him so right away.
    My point is…the more high target you are the more you should take steps to prevent it. Don’t stop fucking or partying. Only a moron would ask you to fuck-party less than a guy who was much less money, fame and appeal than you have. Just take solid proof precautions. Fuck all day, everyday, multiple women, one at a tie or all at once… but do it on Video (credible witnesses would be an added bonus).

    I’m out.

  60. I realize that my opinion is not the most popular one on this blog, but let me try and explain it a little better. Please allow me to humor myself….

    I can’t believe anyone really believes that Kane is totally innocent. Here is a list of “possible” things he has done: acted out his prediction that he was not totally mature, drinking way too much and has a problem in this area, associates with other immature individuals, brought women to his home at very late hours that he had not properly vetted to do things that he wanted to do sexually, creating the mess he is in now, and possibly committed a felony. He at LEAST created the mess he is in now.

    At what point do the Hawks cut ties? Many of you believe he has not crossed the necessary threshold. I believe that some of you wait for more value. I believe, and I think it will be shown the Hawks believe, that you do it when/if he is cleared to play. I also believe that if he is not prosecuted, he will settle and we will never know what occurred.

    That is How I feel and am open for further criticism!

  61. Here’s a question for you all: can we still be at a cup-winning level if the team decides to get rid of him? I’d love to hear some hockey-wise folks speculate on this point, thanks.

  62. Although I think it very open minded and even fair for those who are in the “let’s wait until we know more facts” camp to claim to withhold judgement. Yes, we don’t have all the facts, and maybe we won’t learn much more than we do now. But guess what, we’re also not responsible for deciding his fate. So we CAN have our opinions of how we feel about the situation and what we feel should happen and be emotional about it. That’s part of being a fan-atic and why we read, write and argue about our team on this blog.

    But I think that there are at least some that are in the “let’s wait until we know more facts” camp to sound fair, are also in the “WTF, what do the Hawks do now” camp. But I’m in the “I’m proud to be a Blackhawks fan and this makes me angry” camp. Yes, a fan, for a large part, for their winning ways both on and off the ice. But I’m angry that Kane has ruined a summer of triumph and tainted the upcoming season of adding to the Blackhawks legacy. His foolish and selfish behavior has damaged the image of one of more renowned franchises in all of sports. And that hurts to wear the colors and encourage my family to wear the colors of the team that has made us all proud.

    But like most companies or teams, they should be bigger than any one person in the organization even if he is one of your best performers. The team comes first and the Blackhawks image is a huge part of that team. So I hope that the Blackhawks, the NHL, the DA and Patrick Kane himself, does the right things, whatever that needs to be, to help us to get past this. So that the Blackhawks and their fans can start next season not dodging questions or deflecting insults but as the champions they are and best fans that we are.

  63. Meeting a couple girls at a bar and bringing them home with a friend for an after party with an off duty cop as a driver Apparently that is enough for some people to just throw Kane off the team with their moral high horse attitudes. Those are all the facts you have and we are not even 100 percent on that. Beyond that all we know is that an accusation was made and there is an on going investigation and review for possible charges. No wonder professional athletes stay away from people Pretty sad. If a criminal act was committed prosecute him. Otherwise people should just enjoy the hockey.

  64. “can we still be at a cup-winning level if the team decides to get rid of him?”

    It totally depends on the nature of his departure. If it’s a suspension/buyout – no. If it’s a trade, perhaps. But if the Hawks trade him immediately, it’s hard to see another team paying adequate value for a player of Kane’s caliber (on the ice) given his issues (off the ice). And this team isn’t a Cup contender if they’re taking 60% of on-ice value to dump Patrick Kane.

    Which is why it’s hard to see a scenario where the Hawks move him immediately. Yes, this organization has worked hard to rebuild their reputation in Chicago. And yes, this absolutely is a black eye. But they’re also VERY GOOD at what they do in every way, and I don’t see Bowman throwing away one of the 10 best players on the planet for nothing.

    Also, the crowd that expects the team to dump him immediately continues to ignore Kane’s NMC…

  65. Hof- “Lol”… it is simply a jab at your comment to me during the last year- Re: Crow and my “agenda”…

    You were one of the 1st people here to suggest – this lady could be a Gold digger…
    and consistent as you are (just like I am on the “goalie position (not Crow)” isn’t as important in winning a cup-theme)- on Kane is probably innocent- your earlier comment Re: Kane’s agent= the Lady is a gold digger agenda…

    What I really find interesting is the timing of the statement… Nobody has really spoken on record for the kane camp… suddenly- his agent makes a comment???

    No that to me is INTERESTING- (proves neither guilt or innocence- to me)…
    but does smell of some – some negotiating has all ready taken place… and it seems scripted on timing and message!!!

  66. I agree……There is no way Kane will be traded for low value. I think the Hawks would rather suspend him themselves (for violating team rules). My questions are……
    Has he violated team rules or is he innocent until proven guilty? If so and the Hawks suspend him, how does that affect the Cap?

    If he settles, does that presume his guilt?? Again, will he be suspended by league or team or both?

    If he fights whatever charge is eventually made, will he be so distracted that it affects his game??

    If he waits for a grand jury (then trial if sufficient evidence is found) will he play or sit??

    Finally, how do any missed games affect the Cap??

  67. Morgzie… That is a GREAT post…

    what effect will all of this have on Kane??? even if it plays out in settlement… and little or not too much time lost???

    88- could lose a little Moxy/or at least a step here… which could turn him from extra-ordinary… to ordinary…. really is a possibility…

    Look what happened to Tiger Woods… after he was taken down a few notches…
    One minute… “I am superman- I do what I want”… next minute- everyone who talks to you -well- could be saying one thing/and thinking another… imo- a COMPLETELY innocent person can survives that… Or a Sociopath survives that w/o much effect to his life or Game.

    Just another thing for the Hawk’s FO to try to factor in!!!

  68. Tab- is a 1st round pick + a decent RFA + 3rd round pick- too little for Kane???
    Especially if that 1st pick has a good chance of being in top 10 picks???

    I don’t think equal… but then that frees up $6-8M in cap space- which allows for yet another quality UFA (Ladd???)

    so basically 1st pick, $2-3M RFA + Ladd/type RFA??? doesn’t sound too bad to me

  69. Wall,

    You are once again full of shit, pardon the language.

    I leave the door open to all possibilities because none of us know the facts. One of those possibilities is the gal is a gold digger. I have always been in the camp of “let’s wait and see what happens, let’s wait until the facts come out” … if they ever do.

    However …

    If someone literally forced me to make a judgement on this … right now … without knowing all the details … I would have to say there is a lot of smoke so there’s probably some type of fire. Meaning, “something” involving poor judgement probably happened. I wouldn’t make any statements as to what degree or how serious, criminal or not crimnal, none of that because I do not know the facts. I am just guessing and I don’t like to guess so I usually don’t. But to clarify things just for you Wall, I just did. So I have no agenda or side in this case and hence my statement that you don’t know what you’re talking about.

    You turned about every thread last season into your “trade Crawford, save $6M and use it on other players” schtick. Now that’s an agenda.

    Stop poking at me Wall, and maybe you’ll stop getting responses like this one. Just a thought.

  70. re: wall – a few thoughts…

    1) in your trade (RFA, a 1st & 3rd picks), the assumption is the team Kane is going to has at least $8M in cap space. That assumption limits the list of potential destinations to Colorado, NY Islanders, Florida, Buffalo, Carolina, Nashville, Winnipeg, Arizona and New Jersey.
    2) Let’s just employ a little common sense and recognize there isn’t a snowball’s chance in hell Bowman trades Kane inside the division. So strike Colorado, Nashville & Winnipeg off the list. That leaves us at 6 possible destinations.
    3) Kane still has a NMC, which he would have to waive for any deal to happen.
    4) Let’s also employ some common sense and recognize the Jets aren’t trading their captain (Ladd) inside the division, even if it’s in a deal for Patrick Kane. That type of deal would be historic without the teams being in the same division, and I’m not sold on the idea of Kane waiving the NMC for ‘Peg even if the Jets were willing.
    5) If you’re talking about targeting a team that SHOULD have a high first round pick, that likely eliminates the Islanders.

    So we’re looking at trading Patrick Kane to one of Carolina, New Jersey, Arizona, Buffalo and Florida.

    Throw a few names out there… I don’t see any way the Panthers move Ekblad. Eichel isn’t available. And I don’t want Jeff Skinner. What on those five rosters would you take for Patrick Kane?

  71. So there is literally no smoke here except for what people have manufactured on blogs and twitter and whatever other social media platform they favor.

    The only facts are that some young woman accused another young man of something that the police are investigating and that the DA was moving forward with but has now been delayed. There are a lot of possible reasons for that and all of them speculative.

    The general public knows nothing. There is zero smoke. None. Which is the way it should be.

    Even if everything magically disappears I’m assuming there is some leave of absence that takes place and you don’t see the player start the season or at a minimum training camp. Also, there is a good chance that this whole process drags its ass along for several months.

    Bottom line, no one really knows anything about anything except for the people involved but in my opinion a professional athlete (top paid player in the league as well) should not be out trolling at 2am 8ish weeks before camp starts. They ought to be a few weeks into an off season prep program and ready to kill it to start the year. Could care less about money or age or whatever other stupid excuse you want to contrive. You can get laid in the afternoon or early evening and still have a productive morning the next day. Or you could do something worthwhile like everyone’s whipping boy Brian Bickell and go on an extended fishing trip and not bother anyone.

  72. Tab- Ladd would Not be part of trade… picked up as UFA in off season

    Also, some more teams could be in this “top 10 pick hunt” around the TDL… let’s say
    Ottawa or Toronto , B’s, Wings… let’s say – due to injuries or just bad season… one or more of these team’s are stinking it up…. and are in the Bottom 10…

    I would take Hoffman + 1st + 3rd for Kane…. from Sens and add Ladd/type UFA in offseason… while it hardly seems equal…. might be good in long run??

  73. Hof… I actually like/appreciate your last comment more than the “Vanilla” ones you normally serve up… If I only wanted to read facts … I would pick up a math or Physics book…

    and once again… it wasn’t about Crow (it was about Goalies)… You still don’t seem to get that concept…. Crow just happened to be the Hawk’s Goalie (making $6M) (and yes he did help win a cup … as Did Darling!!!)

    Lastly- it was hardly every post… so maybe you should just stick to facts???

  74. wall – if a team is having a terrible season and is looking at a top 10 pick, I have to believe it’s less likely they deal for Kane and more likely they look to dump dead weight and rebuild – including that top 10 pick. Furthermore, I would have to believe the Hawks would be in bad shape to consider something as bold as moving Kane at the trade deadline; if they’re in contention for another Cup, you don’t make that bold of a move in season.

    And Andrew Ladd is going to be 30 in December. Personal preference: go after someone younger if you’re going to get excited about spending money on UFAs. Dynasties aren’t built/sustained on a “get older” mentality.

    The reality is this is a mess. There aren’t many teams that can afford 88, and there are fewer who have pieces that would actually help the Blackhawks in the long run that make a deal rational.

  75. Wall, as I’ve explained to you many times, I don’t really care what you like or don’t like or whether you think many of my comments are vanilla or not. Go ahead and pick up whatever book you want.

    I get what your point was (goalies). You only repeated it about a hundred times.

    Note I didn’t say “every post” or even almost every post, I said almost every thread. Maybe you should stick to what was actually said.

  76. I think Tab is right on with his analysis of the trade Kane scenarios. Complicated to say the least and very likely limited options. For now anyway.

  77. Speculation about trading Kane somewhere and for what players is simply an exercise in fantasy hockey right now. No one here knows if he will be traded anyway. This dark storm cloud 88 is still hovering over the team, the league and anyone concerned with the Chicago Blackhawks. Given the news yesterday regarding the grand jury hearings, it seems apparent that we are at least narrowing this down to an out of court settlement, or a full fledged court proceeding. I lean to the settlement relating to a he said she said standoff. The woman in question is going to get paid a very handsome fee. Whether this goes to a civil proceeding is also open to speculation, but it is likely this will just mean get paid and go away.

    I have very mixed feeling s about this whole sordid affair. As a fan I feel hurt by Kanes inability to stay away from problems as it relates to drinking. The Hawks are looking at a PR nightmare of massive proportions. Rest assured their ducks will be in a row. They KNOW what went down in Buffalo. They have multiple contingency plans based on various outcomes. It is after all about what most benefits the performance of the team moving forward, and probably most importantly the character of the franchise, as it is perceived.

    Patrick Kane is an extremely valuable asset to this team and to the NHL. Assets should always be protected, and or parlayed with extreme care and with much foresight about the decisions affecting those assets. Hawks brass are sharp guys imo. Rocky Wirtz appears to be a man of very strong character. A stand up guy. He will do the right thing in the end based on what is best for the Chicago Blackhawks.

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but as it relates to the Kane and the Hawks, I have been carrying around this heavy feeling since this story about Kane surfaced. This is a pain in the gut that won’t go away. A sort of melancholy that is difficult to explain. As a long time fan this is a completely new experience, and certainly one I hope is never repeated. Tom Petty said it best “The waiting is the hardest part”.

    Lets Go Hawks!

  78. I say keep Kane and don’t trade him because he is a special talent and can’t be replaced. But if you get into this speculation and notwithstanding Tab’s
    well taken points about the NMC clause and trading within the division, some of us are still whining about losing Big Buff. What about Big Buff, a number 1 pick and a very high end top prospect for Kane. At least this speculation is about hockey.

  79. I agree that Kane is an arrogant punk. I am very disappointed about this situation. However, trading him to another team does not rectify the situation so why do it. It is still a poor reflection on the league wherever he plays, guilty or not, if they allow him to go unpunished. He should be severely penalized financially by the league and the Hawks for his repeated poor judgment. I am talking about a year of salary to make it sufficiently punitive to deter future unwanted conduct.

    This is more an issue with the flaws in our legal system. If an alleged crime is committed, a settlement between the alleged perpetrator and the alleged victim should not preempt the criminal proceeding, it should only resolve any potential civil matter. The criminal matter should proceed. Totally agree that deep pockets should not help excuse anyone from a criminal deed.

  80. Tab- agreed- complete mess… but if You were B’s and had 8th pick at TDL…
    You wouldn’t trade that “Potential 8th pick” + Krug + random prospect/pick for Kane???

    or Sens- 7th pick + Hoffman + random for Kane??? So Sens would be stupid ???

    Hawks would lose on paper… But Cap space (for UFA) + Hoffman + 7th pick (which Hawks maybe trade the 7th/overall + their 1st pick (14th-24th overall) for the true 1st-3rd…
    if they really love someone there (Matthews???)

    Sure all the stars and moons have to align… but it is plausible if Kane doesn’t play for half the year…. AND there will always be 1-2 teams that underachieve due to injuries or whatever… so they might not be in total rebuild mode…

    My point is – in these scenario’s – Hawks are NOT getting full value… in a Kane trade… but SB will have several more options/directions to go from that Trade…
    so when you factor in the 1-2-3 moves… it might be a great trade for Hawks.

    Yes- it is all Hypothetical mumbo-jumbo… but it is a direct response to your 8:02 post… and it really could turn out well for Hawks if you consider all of the next several moves that SB would make from the Kane deal!!!

  81. Quick reminder for wall – the NHL Draft has a lottery system. In a year with a potential superstar sitting at the top of the board, giving up a potentially winning lottery ticket for Kane is indeed asking a lot for an organization that’s in build/rebuild mode.

    re: Boston – do you really, in your heart, think the organization that gave up on Tyler Seguin over allegedly breaking curfew on the road is going to trade for Patrick Kane? And IF they were able to move past that, they’re in cap hell right now. Tough spot.

    re: Ottawa – it’s at least intriguing because Karlsson isn’t getting younger. But I don’t think they’re buyers because, again, they’ve dealt with perceptions issues around a star player (Dany Heatley).

    Also, I understand your assumption that Bowman will have several options/directions but you still haven’t mitigated your hypotheticals w/ Kane’s NMC. Sadly, he controls the narrative in every way right now because of his contract.

  82. To be honest, I am numb with this entire situation. Although I realize that Kaner has abused liquor and a cab driver in the past, I cannot wrap my head around this rape allegation. It’s like the latest Stanley Cup victory is a million miles away and all my happiness has been thrown in the garbage.

    We are all Blackhawk fans and for 8 months a year, we live and breathe their success and failure. But this whole situation has me questioning one of my favorite players on the hockey team that I worship, that we ALL worship. Even if this entire situation goes away, I hope that I can find the frame of mind to cheer for Kaner and the Blackhawks the same way that I did in the past.

    I hear people say that Kaner needs to go into “rehab” and get himself sober. This situation is not about liquor, it is about bad judgment. Even if this is an entire misunderstanding, Kaner needs to use better judgment. There are reasons that he drinks to excess and I hope that he can cure his ways, but he needs to use better judgment.

    I just want this to be gone. I want to enjoy our Stanley Cup victory and watch them hoist the banner on opening night without the lump in my stomach, or the emptiness in my heart. I want to enjoy the Blackhawks and watch Kaner play without second guessing his every move. I don’t want to think about this anymore or about the Hawks trading him or a Grand Jury indicting him.

    I want to go back to that night at the U.C. when the Blackhawks won their 3rd Cup in 6 years and start my summer all over again.

  83. Is Kane Guilty? YES, guilty of being a dumb arrogant ass that keeps putting himself in these situations. I agree totally with Reg.

    Gold digger was my immediate thought when this hit the news. When a young dumb punk keeps acting foolishly, he just makes the target on his back that much bigger. It was bound to happen with his cavalier approach to his conduct off ice. His conduct kept advertising that he is a dumb fool and an easy mark waiting for the right person to come along. Don’t know if the young lady is a gold digger, but, since I am a betting man, I would take the legs open and under him in this situation.

  84. Can we all agree that trading Kane would be a bad idea and set the organization back?

    Sorry but for this Hawks fan trading him at this point isnt an option. Im not interested in watching this team suck for the better part of a decade like they did prior to Kane and Toews arrival.

    Crow is 29, Seabs 30, Hossa 35 and Keith 31. Realistically whats the window here. They already got punched in the gut and traded Saad and to a lesser extend Johns now we are trading Kane? This is a hockey team not a fucking boys choir!

  85. As a Hawk fan this situation has been extremely painful. We have watched Kane develop into a tremendous hockey player. On the other hand we have seen a young man who has struggled with maturity. It’s unfortunate that no matter what the outcome is I can’t help but feel a lack of trust in Kane. I’m confident that Stan Bowman will do what’s best for the team and is wise enough should the decision be to move Kane to not move him for too low a return. I know this is painful for Stan to, after all Kane lived with him his first season. If Kane is traded Florida might be the team Kane would wave his NMC for considering Dale Tallon drafted him. I can’t wait till we can just talk hockey. Know matter what Go Hawks!

  86. Reg, excellent comments. Right on the money. The fact that this matter will not be settled…via dismissal of charges for lack of evidence, or via a criminal indictment that leads to a trial that could lead to Kane being judged innocent? Well, it means Kane is done in Chicago. There is no chance he ever hits the ice again in a Chicago uniform. Too polarizing. Too many fans and other interested fans dismayed and disgusted. Too much damage to the precious Chicago Blackhawks brand in the eyes of Wirtz and McDonough.

    I found it interesting the report yesterday from Kane’s lawyer (or maybe it was his agent…I don’t recall) inferring that Kane is a prisoner of his own home right now. He has been in near isolation mode, separated entirely from his routine of hockey, friends, hobbies, etc. I’d imagine he is seriously depressed at this stage. And I’m sure he is smart enough to understand he has done irreparable damage to his reputation. And that his days in Chicago are very likely done. So how does he salvage life/hockey assuming he can buy his way out of this criminal allegation? I don’t know the answer to that. I assume there will be a drumbeat out of Buffalo that the Sabres acquire him. But do they want to add such a polarizing figure? Can they forgive and forget, or would their own fans be in outrage even if we are talking about a homegrown great hockey player showing up on their doorstep?

  87. great comment Reg, if only a rewind button. This whole situation is sad and everyone loses the young woman, Kane, the Fans, the Blackhawks, the NHL. It’s hard to celebrate the SC victory with all of the unknown.

  88. The grand jury being temporarily dismissed could mean about 10 different things.

    1. If a settlement is reached, the DA could still subpoena the accuser to testify.
    2. New evidence could have been brought forth.
    3. Some members of the grand jury may not have been able to make it.
    4. Some witnesses may have had a scheduling conflict.
    5. The accuser or someone else could have recanted or changed their story.

    I’ve heard the accuser is still cooperating so that leads me to believe a settlement hasnt been reached. Don’t read too far into anything yet as it could make you look really silly when it’s not what you think.

    We still know nothing.

  89. ER,

    Maybe not all, but many of your commentaries (including your ALL CAPS expositive) are well written. It is nice to read well written comments.

  90. About moving Kane elsewhere….15 teams have less than 3.5 million in cap space.

    Teams that could take that hit the Hawks would not trade with include Colorado, Anaheim, Winnipeg, Nashville.

    Teams that Kane would refuse a trade to that could absorb the cap hit, Arizona, New Jersey, Carolina.

    Teams with space that have an internal budget, Ottawa, Florida, and possibly the Islanders.

    Teams remaining- Buffalo and maybe Edmonton if they send Eberle.

    Teams dumb enough to trade for a player that may or may not be suspended….crickets.

    I could see a scenario where Kane if he’s not in jail and can play, plays this year with the Hawks. Then is traded or at least left unprotected in an expansion draft. I could also see a scenario where Hossa is left unprotected so they don’t have LTIR or recapture to deal with. Remember with LTIR, the Hawks would still have to be under the cap at the start of the season.

    Kane in Vegas….what could go wrong?

  91. sshm is only person making sense right now. Kane will not be traded this year and if the Hawks make a run and he responds on the ice, this will be an unsavory asterisk next January.
    Anybody who thinks the Hawks can be legit contenders without a top 5 player, a point a game scorer in the playoffs and a superstar when the lights are brightest is just nuts.
    Please, put the morality police to bed on this blog. Sports have been full of Kaners over the years (B.Hull, M.Jordan, B.Ruth, K.Bryant, R.Lewis, etc.) If Kane repulses you, go watch ice dancing.
    As for RTF – your delusional predictions are legendary on this site

  92. Thanks Montana – too bad they’re not well edited (hastily written prone to misspelled and missing words).

    Regarding potential trades, I would want to get a top tier d-man as priority #1 in return for Kane. Depending on which d-man, other players/prospects would be included in the trade to even things out from both hockey talent and salary cap.

    OEL from Arizona (probably a pipe dream for a couple reasons) would be a trade I would be OK with. Even a guy like Adam Larsson from NJ along with a top prospect would help re-establish our d-corps to the point where the drop off in offense die to Kane being gone wouldn’t mean a drop off in wins, albeit maybe more 2-1 wins then 4-3.

    The Hawks won’t get back 100 cents on the dollar for Kane, but if they get back 70 or 80 cents along with cap relief, they will still be a formidable team capable of contending for the Cup. All will not be lost.

  93. What’s the bigger PR hit if Kane isn’t charged and either settles/no charges filed?

    Having Kane on the team and performing as he normally does



    In my mind losing is the biggest PR hit for any team anywhere in any sport. People love winners and they stop spending money on losers. If the Hawks trade Kane and end up not making the playoffs how many fans will the team lose? That’s a very real possibility.

    I think Kane is a dick, which helps him play with an edge. I hope he’s not an asshole, that destroys other peoples lives.

  94. I see that Rufus has grown yet another neck and kindly laid it out for another severing. Freak

    nothing from me on 88 yet

  95. Reg my feelings echo your comments. The Hawks probably need to insist Kane go into rehab and couseling before ever putting on the Indian Head again. If he is to continue a BlackHawk in the future the organization has to help make him right and can only support him if he agrees to make changes in his lifestyle. Lots of spin control about supporting Kane get past the mistakes he made due to alchohol will be the only way to make things right. A couple months off at the start of the season will only make the Hawks stronger at the end of the season.

  96. again, everyone loves throwing demands at the Blackhawks like trade him, send him to rehab, buy him out, etc….

    Drew Doughty is still a member of the LA Kings. Semyon Varlamov is still a member of the Colorado Avalanche. There are legal issues and there’s the reality of running an NHL club with a salary cap. Lots of dreaming going on around here w/ scenarios for Kane’s future and lots of folks continue to ignore basic facts we’ve outline on numerous occasions that display the difficulties of just making him go away.

  97. Let’s not ignore that the Player’s Association will have a say in the final disposition of this matter too. Tab’s point about other players with sticky issues ring true. The Blackhawks can’t act unilaterally here, nor will they.

  98. Mudturtle,

    It’s a fluid situation. Right now it appears to be postponed; Chris Kuc just retweeted a Buffalo TV station’s report that both sides are sitting down for settlement talks but are far apart.

  99. For the record, the biblical quote is spot-on as to those critical of Kane and/or the young lady in his house. It applies both ways. Simply stated, NO ONE has any basis to be critical of Kane or the young lady. Last I checked, we are not the morality police nor are employed by Erie County States’ Attorneys’ Office.

    Case closed.

  100. Flatliner- In my opinion Kane is one of the 5 best players in the world. Stanley Cups are won with elite players. IMHO we have three of those types of players, 2, 88 &19. I believe we have won 3 Cups as a result of the fact that we have more elite players than anybody else. Without Kane the Hawks will be a good team but will not win the Cup. 2, 19 and 88 are irreplaceable.

  101. If I didn’t know it before, I certainly know it now – don’t take “reports” as gospel until they are verifiable facts. Reports in this case swing back and forth faster than I can keep pace with.

    But, if this latest report is true – the one stating both sides have sat down to negotiate but are far apart – then it indicates a major breakthrough in the resolution of this case. There was speculation the alleged victim didn’t want to settle this out of court, that in fact she wanted to see justice served and Kane to be punished for his alleged actions. But if they are negotiating, it means she is not standing on moral precedent, and it would seem the only thing standing in the way of resolution is the $$$ amount.

  102. previous post edit:

    I meant to say “moral principle” – not “moral precedent”.

    Oh for an edit function … or for me to learn enough discipline to edit the post before hitting “Post Comment”.

  103. The only thing that saves Kane’s hockey career in the Indianhead is full exoneration. A settlement seals his fate in terms of becoming an ex-Hawk. He gone.

  104. Rule of #3

    Go back and look at all previous Stanley Cup winners you will be hard pressed to find a team that doesn’t have 3 Superstar(top 5 guys at their position) and/or Hall of fame players. Good teams like the Hawks, Wings, Avs, Oilers have multiple guys who fit that bill. I went back to the Leafs of the 40’s and gave up. My hockey knowledge get hazy in the 1940’s.

    and before someone says anything; Quick, Kopitar & Doughty are all top 5 players at their position.

    I came up with these two teams
    06 Carolina Hurricanes
    11 Boston Bruins

    Here is the list if someone wants to fact check

  105. re: SSHM

    I would absolutely consider 2010-11 Chara & Bergeron elite, and an argument has been made that (again, AT THAT TIME) Thomas was elite as well.

    So you’re right, that 06 Carolina squad was an oddity. still is. And they’re still paying Cam Ward for it.

  106. If the Hawks went to remain a contender they need to keep Kane or trade him for another HOF caliber player.

    Seriously take his off ice BS aside how many players right now would you trade Kane for 1 for 1 right now? How many of those guys are YOUNGER then him?

    John Tavarse

    Its not a big list

  107. @Tab

    Tim Thomas had one of the best playoff runs EVER; 938 SV% is just sick & Bergeron might end up being a HOF player

  108. From what I understand if there’s a civil settlement there’s no admission to anything nor can anyone decide later to change their mind once a settlement has been reached. Is that correct? Tab, how do you think that outcome will affect the damaged relationship between 88 and management?

  109. Kubs59- This is no longer a civil case. Any civil settlement that occurs does not unilaterally hinder the DA from pressing legal charges. It is illegal to pay a witness to prevent them from testifying. The DA could still proceed, however the alleged victim may no longer cooperate. The DA could subpoena the alleged victim forcing them to testify. Kane could in fact settle, the DA could subpoena the girl and Kane could be found guilty if a jury decides he is guilty. Those are all hypotheticals.

    We’re not certain they are even negotiating.

  110. I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that Kane will be traded (if Kane is not found guilty, either by settlement or exoneration). I wouldn’t be surprised if Rocky and his management team aren’t even sure yet themselves what they want in that regard.

    I do think that the only road for Kane to remain with the Hawks starts with him having a contrite heart. He has to own this and convince Rocky that this type of problem will never happen again. Even then, it may not be enough for Rocky trust him and allow him the remain on the team. But, certainly it must start with the proper attitude by Kane, and maybe that’s not something Kane is willing or able to do. Maybe he’d rather go somewhere else rather than be humbled in order to stay in Chicago.

    Lot’s of questions – not many answers.

  111. I am a diehard Hawks fan. Have been the bulk of my 28 years on this planet. It breaks my heart the allegation against Kane. I’m the typical cute girl with all the Kane hockey crap. The uniform (home and away), the signed hockey stick, etc. My boyfriend tolerates it well enough. I met Patrick twice in the past at social functions. He’s a nice approachable guy. You can definitely sense his party boy nature though. He also carries a pretty big ego and likes the attention of his entourage, the fans and especially the ladies. That doesn’t make him any different then a lot of jocks or famous people. Attention getting is one of the perks. Pretty ladies are another. Does that make Kane immature? In my mind, no. I think he is done playing hockey for us though. The backlash by the media and many fans would be overwhelming unless, as some of you have said, he is successful in proving his full innocence. It’s bad news if he enters into a financial agreement with his accuser. To me that tells me he is guilty of crossing a line with this woman. If he settles then he clearly feels it’s either that or go to jail. Me? I’m done with Kane. I don’t know if he stays in Chicago or not. But I’m done. I won’t boo him and spew angry glares and shouts his way. There will be many many fans who will though. So sad that the happiness and joy that that Hawks have brought to hockey and Chicago is sucked dry by this thing.

  112. One thing I find interesting to consider is the way management, the league, advertisers, hell their agent (identicle contract extensions throughiut their careers) treat Kane or Toews like Kane and Toews. From an image standpoint I wonder how any of these people or bodies are thinking. I wonder if any find it sacrimonious to use Toews (posterboy for the NHL) and Kane (guilty or not, ’nuff said) in the same sentence for the purposes of branding. EA already wiped Kane off the cover. Could anyone imagine a conversation taking place among Blackhawks management, Toews and/or Mr. Brisson about distancing Toews from this Toews and Kane brand for the sake, respect and honour of the Captain?

  113. Well there’s More-isson weighting in so that’s good. Looks like most everyone’s back so at least we have that. If Kane stays with the team then I believe Rocky knows and signals that it was not Kane at fault…if he is gone then it signals the opposite. They must know more than us and will do the absolute right thing. In the meantime it’s very difficult for us as we process this and react in our own ways and are helpless to do otherwise.

  114. Tab,

    One Canadian Tire campaign is all I can conjure.


    Chevy, All-Star game co-captains, identical franchise contracts, a would be EA Cover, their names are entwined when discussing the franchise.

  115. Dear Sara, I am very sorry for not thinking about your thoughts and sentiments. I actually forgot about a woman’s opinion because I was so caught up in my “hockey is my sport” state of mind. Most of the comments on this blog are from men, so seeing your comments makes me think a little harder about all of the women who adore Kaner and wear his jersey and support him on and off the ice. When I read your comments I actually felt terrible for you.

    If the rape allegations are true, and we may NEVER know if they are or not, every female who follows the Blackhawks has a legitimate gripe with Kaner and Hawks management if he continues to wear the Hawk sweater. Where as most of us will forget all of this if he comes back and continues his superstar play on the ice, there will be women who cannot EVER get over his poor judgment and bad behavior this time. I would not want to be in McDonough and Rocky’s shoes when this all shakes out.

  116. Comment in today’s Toronto paper by D. Keith-he wouldn’t bite on feelings about events but said that the Art Ross winner this year will be 88.
    Loyalty yes, but this is a close group and part of the leadership is still optimistic about this year.
    (Interesting comment given a cloudy future.)

  117. Circus indeed! Grab the tail with your trunk and mindlessly follow the ass in front of you around in a circle. If not for Tab and Hof and maybe a few others, this would be just north of a complete waste of time.
    I know so many of you are so terribly pained about the fate of the poor Blackhawks because of Kane’s utter terribleness, a terribleness that pains you until you can’t pain anymore, until you’ve reached your pain threshold and have run out of nothing to say about something you know nothing about, until you’ve run out of capital letters and exclamation points, run out of proclamations of remorse and regret, run out of proper grammar and syntax and grade school punctuation ( I know, it’s just an online blog, so who gives a fuck about that stupid old-school shit?), until this silly little soap opera has run it’s course and you can finally say, in all caps, you see, my prediction was correct. I was right. Kane is a 24-carat douche bag and should be unceremoniously exiled.
    I, for one, prefer to wait for facts. A settlement does not imply guilt. It often implies an accuser who, based on advise from legal counsel, does not want to be pressed for the truth, under oath, in court, when a chunk of money can relieve that urge. Or not.
    I want Kane in a Hawks sweater, this year and beyond. If that happens, after all the ink and angst, great. If it doesn’t, so be it. He can’t hide from the truth, though he can be liberated by it. We’ll see.

  118. Why are we still even debating this? The big news broke this morning… The United Center will appear in NHL 16! This is for you Eric Ericksson!!!

  119. Sara, I found your thoughts on this matter interesting. Have you considered the possibility that Kane was played by this young woman.
    Or that 88 was marked as an easy target with an affinity for partying.

    Many here have been quick to assume his guilt and to run him out of town

  120. So Kane is accused here of poor judgement because:
    -he partied in a public place
    -drank alcohol
    – it was night time
    – went home to continue the party and have sex

    Every wanker on this forum did this multiple times in their lifetime. Some might have done it last night or in the last week. Or wish they could do it every day of their lives.

    The idea that if Kane settles he’s guilty is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever heard. If any, the opposite is true. If a rape did happen the victim holds all the cards in the successive proceedings. AND has the proper incentive in going through with it: revenge.

    Also… whet a fuck is this notion that Kane is traded ? Who came up with his shit ?
    They gave him $10M/year because they trust him. If they trade him just because of
    PR reasons and not because of real, official accusations that would mean they can’t be trusted for giving 10M to a guy they don’t trust.

    I understand the fun in putting out trade scenarios and seeing what the value would be and shit…but if he’s not traded I’d want you to acknowledge it every day and every time you write something about the Hawks. (exaple: I think the Hawks will not extend Shaw, but what do I know about the Hawks thinking, I was 100% certain Kane would be traded, so I don’t know much)

  121. Heard the grand jury has been suspended for two weeks. That to me sounds more like new evidence/DA needing more time. Or perhaps a scheduling issue with witnesses. IMO, it does not sound like negotiations for a settlement.

    We still know nothing

  122. Dum Dum is right. The moral police are out in full force on Kane. Don’t stay out late, don’t drink, don’t talk to strangers, don’t invite guests over to your house, don’t don’t, don’t. How bout its none of our business, just like its nobody’s business what these posters do in their spare time. IF a crime was committed that is different. That is up to the authorities not us and very little facts are known. END OF STORY.

  123. 88 lost the faith and support of many people. His only redemption at this point is to fight the allegation in court. Since he’s not doing that, and in fact has gone completely underground then the conclusion for me is that he is guilty. Unfortunately for number 88 this is how a great many people will think Something that tainted can never be credible or respected by Blackhawks or our fans. It has nothing to do with his amazing talent. You know what’s ironic? If this had been somebody like Danny Carcillo under investigation then nearly everybody would tearing him to pieces and hoping that he rots in prison right now.

    This is all real bad stuff for 88. I don’t see him being welcomed back by the Wirtz family. Or a great many fans.

  124. A brief respite from storm cloud Kane can be found now on NHL Network. The OT game against the Ducks featuring the still wonderful, but disallowed Shaw head butt goal. Remember how fun and delightfully stressful this was fun way back when, and none us were getting any sleep???

    Lets Go Hawks!

  125. Sara and I say this very respectfully, if you’ve concluded he’s guilty because he’s not fighting this in court, may I suggest you learn a bit more about due process and the legal process before jumping to said conclusions.

  126. It might be raining in Chicago this afternoon but it dummy for Hawks fans in NHL Network. Hawks Ducks Series on all afternoon back to back. Game 3 on now. The goofy lineup switch game? So please sign Kruger already.

    Let’s Go Hawks!

  127. No Sara, if this were Dan Carcillo I suspect a lot of people would be saying “let’s wait until all the facts come out” before jumping to conclusions. But I do agree that some (not “nearly everyone”) would be tearing him to pieces and hoping he’d rot in prison.

  128. Kane clearly has an alcohol problem.

    What’s next on the menu for this guy to fully self-destruct, killing someone in a drunk driving hit and run accident?

    Fact is, PK has demonstrated that his off-ice drunken “criminal” behavior is as much a part of who he is as his on-ice superstardom — and if he isn’t traded now for less-than-market value, how much will he be worth when he awakes from his next weekend black-out to find himself behind bars for life?

  129. Here’s the thing… the facts are never going to come out in this case. In all likelihood this gets settled because the last thing Kane needs is more details coming out from a trial let alone taking his chances with a jury. The girl probably just wants to get out of the spotlight and stop having her name posted on every tabloid website. The negative publicity and slut-shaming is the reason most rape cases aren’t prosecuted let alone reported. A settlement doesn’t mean Kane is innocent or guilty nor does it mean the girl is a victim or an opportunist. It has everything to do with both parties getting on with their lives.

    If it’s settled, everyone gets a gag order as part of the agreement and then we can ask St. Peter the truth of what happened along with who shot JFK and how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie pop. Don’t expect a nice clean wrap up for this. At the end of it, we will still be left to decide how to interpret the situation. For many of you, as long has he puts pucks in the net it doesn’t matter what else he does. Just don’t be surprised if Rocky and McD don’t see it that way.

    Phil you had no idea just how bittersweet that celebration on the ice was going to be.

  130. I nor any other poster to this website will decide Kane’s fate, so I don’t have to be fair and can voice my opinion. Fan opinions are what makes this board worth reading. I’m a Blackhawks fan and I’m pissed off and I’m not hiding behind a “let’s wait for all the facts” to state my opinion.

    So here are 5 outcomes and how I feel the Blackhawks mgmt should respond:

    1. Everything is dropped no charges, no cash settlement: Kane stays; game on
    2. Status quo (no new development): Kane stays in limbo; effectively a suspension but not proclaiming it; Hawks keep their options open.
    3. No charges, cash settlement: suspend Kane until you can trade him
    4. Grand jury indictment: suspend indefinitely; no trade possible
    5. Conviction: game over, everyone loses

    I’ll guess that it’s #3 where fans will most be divided. My view could change on #3 too based on how the Blackhawks and Kane respond or even acknowledge the incident. This will be where PR moves front and center and where management falls on the team image/winning team continuum.

  131. re: “suspend Kane until you can trade him” – do you do that at the expense of Kruger walking away? Because the NHLPA would fight that tooth & nail and there likely would be minimal – if any – cap help realized by a team suspension.

    And we’re right back into the irrational conversation that ignores all of the points we’ve previously outlined about tradeability, getting any value back (much less adequate), and Kane having a NMC that controls things.

  132. Once again on a lighter note, my season tickets showed up today. They are very cool looking indeed, and especially the banner raising game tickets for 07 Oct. As to whether Kane is playing or not, there will be Blackhawks hockey to be played right around the corner.

    I hope for a non disastrous outcome to the ongoing Kane saga, but we just don’t have enough credible information to really assess what happened. Otherwise, it is pure speculation at this point from all parties that were not there.

    Let’s Go Hawks!

  133. NJ Hawks fan, I can’t believe you actually typed and hit send on “I’m not hiding behind lets wait for all the facts”. I guess fairness is just out the window. Hopefully these posters will never be accused of anything. That way they won’t have to deal with the attitude from others that you are guilty until proven innocent.

  134. Tab, I struggle with the Blackhawks letting Kane take the ice on Banner Raising night if the outcome (settlement) appears suspicious but still legal. I don’t think it’s a “no brainer” for mgmt either if that’s the outcome. Maybe there’s a x game suspension by the NHL for personal conduct (like Roethlisberger). His suspension was shortened and he’s still on the Steelers, so there’s a little something for everyone!

    But Kruger $ weren’t coming from Kane anyway, so that still requires another solution.

    Pete, I’m not going to be deciding what happens, and this is not a courtroom, so being fair is enviable but I don’t think it’s required for posting an opinion here.

    But for many of the posters who say “let’s wait for all the facts” the only outcome for which maybe they’ll take a position on what the Hawks should do, is if Kane is charged or found guilty(!!).

    My suggesting what the Hawks should do if this all gets dropped or if there is a settlement or if it lingers as is, is a lot more interesting (as is potential teams and what the Hawks could get in return), than someone saying “let’s wait for all the facts” followed by 152 variations of ” I agree”

  135. Yeah sure, NJ, criticize anyone who says let’s wait for the facts. I for one prefer to not stick a foot in my mouth pontificating what the Blackhawks should do with Kane until I know a little more. You on the other hand seem to be in the habit of just shooting from the hip with suggestions (as Tab has pointed out) which aren’t realistic. I’m sure when it doesn’t come to pass you’ll post 152 variations of “oops” or something else like “but DUDE it’s just a message board, there’s no accountability”.

    I will still wait for more information to come out because we don’t know what Kane did or didn’t do, despite what has been said here. Consider that MY opinion.

  136. You can’t really call Kane a piece of shit because he hasn’t been charged with anything yet. He could be innocent for all we know. Don’t start judging people before you find out the real facts. I agree with tab. If they Hawks trade Kane they are not going to get anything compared to his skill in return. So if you’re a real Blackhawks fan you’d have kaners back until you found out what really happened. He’s won us 3 cups for Christs sake!

  137. Ochoringo the morality police can’t resist commenting on other peoples lives. Its what they do. They won’t let the criminal justice system engage in due process. Its one step removed from vigilante justice.

  138. So Pete, you don’t think Kane’s salary, stature, and being a key face of the Blackhawks obligates him to a higher standard of conduct punishable even if the behavior is not illegal? Or do his stats and accomplishments excuse him from such scrutiny and the target of loyal fans anger for this latest incident? I get the maybe Kane doesn’t care to be a role model, but how the Blackhawks respond, whatever the outcome, will indicate what they expect of him.

    Talented people who are jerks and damage the image or the culture of organizations get fired (not thrown in jail) all of the time; usually with some warnings and admittedly with some hand-wringing by management but it still happens.

    Fans are doing what I assume Blackhawk management has been doing, working through all the what-if scenarios and not just waiting to be blind-sided by more facts (but probably working with more info than the public has). But fans don’t have any control or much direct say on the outcome, so they post their feelings and views on boards like this, so they can hear what others think and because that’s what’s mostly posted here, not the latest facts.

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