Report: Brent Seabrook Declines To Waive NMC

During Saturday night’s “Headlines” segment on Hockey Night in Canada, Elliotte Friedman reported the Blackhawks asked Seabrook about waiving his NMC for the right situation. The veteran defenseman reportedly declined.

Earlier this week Duncan Keith’s name was brought up in trade rumors. He responded by telling Chicago reporters that he hadn’t been approached about his NMC and didn’t see a reason to leave Chicago.

Our good friend Dave Pagnotta at The Fourth Period confirmed the report and added the following:

According to Pagnotta, “a few teams have inquired about Keith and informed the Hawks if they are in a position to move him, and he’s willing to move, to call them.”

163 thoughts on “Report: Brent Seabrook Declines To Waive NMC

  1. I dont see Seabs going anywhere with the amount on his contract. Who has the space right now?

    If he goes at all itll be summer when teams have more wiggle room.

    Its a bizarre thought to think of trading Keith and keeping Gustafsson.

    Altho im guessing Gustafsson will stay as a fillin until Boqvist hopefully starts rocking it up statistically.

  2. Regarding these NMC’s and NTC’s I would not take anything that happens three weeks before the trade deadline as the definitive final word.

    Things can change, and often do.

  3. Apparently I’m in the minority. I’d rather have an aging and slower Seabrook and Keith on my team than to NOT have Seabrook and Keith on my team. Most teams would kill for a Keith/Seabrook pairing on their blue line, even if they don’t have the speed and skill they did 5-10 years ago. At least one is a future hall-of-famer.

    Maybe they’re more D2 now (while still playing D1 minutes), but there’s also something to be said for veterans, clubhouse guys, leaders and faces of the franchise — you still want to have that kind of player on your team.

  4. I said weeks ago there is no reason for Seabrook or Keith to waive their no movement clause. Neither of those guys have anything to prove. At this point in their lives stable family life is probably more important than another Stanley Cup.

  5. Hard to know what it means until you know for sure why they asked. Was to try and accomodate him if doesn’t want to be part of rebuild. May be reason why he said no so quick. Agree Seabrook not a rental contract so unlikely to happen at tdl. Keith with a more friendly contract has apparently drawn some interest, obviously. Don’t see Keith going unless it is to accommodate him too.

  6. Bowman is probably telling the teams that they can have Keith, but they have to take Seabrook too.

  7. I wonder if Seabrook might follow Jonny’s lead and come back lighter and leaner next year. That along with playing fewer minutes, playing PK minutes where open ice speed matters less, and good line matches could help his effectiveness. The NMC is what it is and I doubt he can be traded for now. The trick is to find ways to maximize his usefulness – he may be a bit slow but he still does lots of things well.

  8. You’ve won 3 Stanley Cups, your family is anchored in the city and you have more money, endorsements and relationships than you ever imagined- Why would anyone WANT to move?? AND you are playing 20+ mins a game, expectations aren’t nearly as high as a decade ago, and your credibility is high vs changing teams, teammates and coaches! WHY would you waive a NM or NT clause? To make it “easier” for management? Seabs and Keith didn’t put themselves in this position- Management did!

  9. I think you win the Cigar, Glennhall61. Totally agree. One would think (though you never know) that the other “core” guys who will stay don’t want to see him leave either.

    Interested in other peoples’ thoughts here …… What teams, and on what terms, would be interested in taking on Seabrook right now (or Keith for that matter)? I’m certainly no expert on how contracts would transfer, and I’m not sure what the Blackhawks would get in return for guys with the age of Seabrook and Keith.

    Hell, it’s hard to tell if the team wants to be sellers or buyers at this point (I guess Seabrook and Keith could fall into both scenarios). I didn’t buy the “playoff team” mantra after Q got let go, but the truth is that they are not that far out of the race the way the teams are stacked up in the Central.

  10. So I yell at the tv a lot when he screws up or he skates slower than Rosival. Only difference is Rosival didn’t smash Bakes or beat the redwings in overtime. Either of those things don’t happen we don’t get either of those cups. So he got paid and the contract looks horrible and that’s on Bowman not Seabrook. The actions of Seabrook over the years create a legend in Chicago hockey so don’t forget them….Enough on the Seabrook contract was he supposed to say no????? One last comment if bowman trades away dcat or makes no moves at the trade deadline can we fire him already? I wonder how far this team would go with a 4-5 million dollar defenseman and a panarin?????

  11. Don’t blame the hawks for asking and don’t blame Seabrook for saying no.
    Things can change quickly but my guess seabs stays for the rest of the year and then maybe he considers waiving.

  12. Seabs won’t waive it. And NOBODY other than Dale Tallon would take him for what, the next 5 yes at 7 mil. If the cap keeps getting higher, and we get rid of AA and Crawford, that frees up 10 mil in cap space…..we can keep Seabs and Keith, let them teach the young guys. Plus it’s no guarantee that boquist , beaudin, or the other D prospects will pan out with immediate results.

  13. One vexing question. What are the Hawks going to do with Corey Crawford. He played 25 and 23 games respectively over the past two years.
    So will he come back ? For how long ? Until somebody buzzes the crease ?
    At this point, you have to move forward without him. But what about next year ?

  14. Trade Debrincat. Say what.

    De bob lee swagger cat aint going anywhere longtime. He the Sharpy of these 10 yrs.

  15. Crow comes back and is just as good as he was before he got hurt the first time. Thats what you expect the second time. The only question is does he resign in 2 yrs and if he does prob lees caphit and maybe 1 or so yrs. He could retire then. Until then though theres no reason to say/do anything about it because of ltir.

    Crow can stay for rest of contract and see where he is at then, play games next yr and doesnt get hurt. Play like 40 not 60. We cant bank on him playing 60/yr anymore, that doesnt mean that he cant. We really just have to wait and it doesnt effect the salary cap because ltir.

  16. @ Craig Nigrelli

    Good topic, fairly straightforward answer as strange as that may seem.

    They take his health as it comes and proceed accordingly. If CC is healthy and wants to play, he will. They will undoubtedly lighten his load if that’s what happens. If CC decides he can’t / shouldn’t play due to the concussions and retires, the Blackhawks proceed accordingly. As I understand it, if CC retires he forfeits $6M and I don’t see that happening. Other option for CC is going the Hossa route.

    They (both Blackhawks and Crawford) have no choice but to take things step by step as they come.

    The frustrating thing for fans is there’s no timetable. I’m sure for CC and Blackhawks too.

    Personnel wise, if CC is still in limbo, they bring in a veteran goalie for at least a year to pair with Delia. Not to mention they’ll have a better idea on Delia at year end. He could progress, regress, things happen.

  17. One issue with all our core players, aside from the NMCs is their contracts are very front-loaded line Hossa’s was. If they retire early, as I understand it, even if we trade them, the cap recapture penalty blows back on the original signing team. (Does anyone know the formula for calculating that? Curious because I dont know how significant that is.)
    At any rate, it behooves us not to post them off because they might not play along with a “medical issue” like Hossa did.
    I could see Keith and Seabrook with coach Q in Seattle…2 BC boys and their old mentor…

  18. Ian had posted the numbers and there not good.

    Good thing is were good with cap space for these yrs right now, really until young wave starts to need bridge and first full contracts, salary cap wise.

    Crow, I know people who know his family. Run a rink in Chateauguay. I like Crow and have his back whatever he wants to do. I feel he will play again, if hes good to health wise and wont until he says hes ready to. When he got hurt first time, organization wanted him to play before he thought he was ready. So I think the Crow will return and be just as good. Who knows when though, no rush for this 82 games, so prob same as last yr.

  19. Espo Keith is only contract that penalty follows him if he retires on another team. Any contract signed after 2013 was limited in term and average caphit applied. If Keith retires with one year left on his contract the blackhawks penalty is 4m for that year and about 3.4m for 2nd last year. His contract from now on has his actual salary less than caphit so no benefit is gained from this point so Blaclhawks get the full recapture penalty. If you subtract actual salary from caphit you get a goid idea of the penalty.
    If 7, 19 or 88 retire their remaining caphit is responsibility of team they are playing with, not a recapture on them. Agents like to get front loaded contracts because it makes buying out a contract the last couple if years not very attractive because of how its calculated.

  20. Craig i think there is a chance if Crawford is unsble to play next year, then Delia with a low priced backup maybe a Nalimov or a Reimer type if bought out by Florida as has been speculated, possibly Ward again even. Crawford go on ir, if its for the rest of year then his ltir space could be used to acquire a goalie during the season if situation calls for it.

  21. So were going to add Franson and Dzingal for decent caphits/yrs or what. Not thinking you can just draft, a core/mid core players we have, the rest of roster. Were going to have to add about 2 good FW and 1 Defensemen threw ufa/trade. Anyone think we wait until summer of 20 to add these ufas and get another possible top 6 pick 3 times in a row.

  22. Thanks Ian. Do you have a place where john Q public can look at the CBAs? They seem to like to make it obscure…or maybe they figure nobody’s a geek enough to care. Grin.

  23. Espo you can google the nhl cba, a tough read though and certain parts or all of it. Capfriendly has alot of info around caphits and contracts and seems pretty good at giving explanations to peoples questions.

  24. Every ranking has
    Hughes
    Kakko
    Podkolzin

    Sporting news (4-5)
    Turcotte
    Boldy
    19 Kaliyev

    NHL-Kimelman Morreale Lepage (4-7)
    Turcotte
    Cousins
    Dach
    Zegras
    12/20/not 1st rd Kaliyev

    Full press coverage (4-8)
    Dach
    Cozens
    Boldy
    Broberg
    Turcotte
    24 Kaliyev

    draftsite.com (4-6)
    Cozens
    Dach
    Boldy
    14 Kaliyev

    tankathon (4-6)
    Dach
    Cozens
    Boldy
    20 Kaliyev

    Mymockdraft (4-6)
    Dach
    Byram
    Cozens
    13 Kaliyev

    Interesting, some of them have moved down and some have gone up for mid season from training camp/beginning of yr time.

  25. Combine every mock this is order

    Hughes
    Kakko
    Podkolzin
    Dach
    Cozens
    Boldy
    Turcotte

    Kaliyev averaging pick 17.0

  26. looking ahead to next year at least one spot has to be opened for Joki to join the roster and two if say Boquist or Mitchell is ready but even getting one spot open makes things interesting

    One of the current 7 D one would need to go – I guess they could just not re-sign KK or re-sign him and try to put him through waivers – then if they moved Forsling to 7th D Joki slots back in to the top 6

    Or they could trade Forsling and keep KK as the 7th – a more likely scenario

    Or Murphy gets traded or Dahlstrom (neither of which I would be in favour of unless it’s an offer too good to turn down)

    Gus is probably staying – if he were to be traded at some point it would probably be next TDL when his contract is almost at it’s expiry date and his value could be even higher than it is now

    Let’s assume 2 and 7 are not going anywhere yet (if at all) – if Seabs wouldn’t waive his NMC it seems unlikely Keith would

    So who goes? I keep coming back to Forsling although maybe they should wait until the summer – hopefully increase his value if he plays well to the end of the season and get an NHL ready prospect – I don’t think a 3rd or 4th rounder for Forsling at this year’s TDL is going to help the Hawks much in their attempts to build a contending team while Toews and Kane are still rolling

  27. I wouldn’t count on Strome or Debrincat going anywhere; they are best friends and should use this as leverage for thier next contracts. Blame Bowman for the Seabrook contract. I would have hated to see Seabrook go, but I wonder if there was a team in the league at the time would A. could have given him that much. B. actually given him that much.

  28. When Bowman handed Seabrook that high-priced contract with all that term I said that he is now almost untradeable, assuming he would waive his NMC. The focus should be on several others at the TDL. Would not exclude Gus if a team is willing to ante up a great return. Or Forsling, if he could fetch a mid 3rd rounder. Help at the back end is coming the next couple of years. I hope they give KK and fair tryout.

  29. @Wrap I like your take on the blue line. But I have one dissenting opinion on Gus.

    I think the fact that the Hawks are NOT motivated to move Gus now means they may actually be able to get more for him this TDL than next season. I think his very team friendly contract next year could be plus for a prospective trading partner right now. My thinking is that it gives a team two chances to use that player for a Cup run. The typical rental player is one and done. Gus is a rental+. If you fall short this season, you can afford to keep him and try again next year. I honestly think that works in the Hawks favor. The trading team gets more value than a playoff rental, so giving up more is not as painful. If the Hawks feel they are not getting enough value for letting him go, they keep him like they probably want in to do anyway.

    That said, I think they probably move Forsling as you predict in the offseason and not at the deadline. Though I hope they move him sooner rather than later as I would prefer to see Koekkoek get the lions share of starts here on out to get a better idea of what he is.

  30. Whats an example of getting more this deadline then season 20 deadline. Would we get anything like the 38 trade for 56, if so.

    Not saying trade just want to know what, more, would it be this deadline

    Even though the Four Horsemen are coming, and so far first one we know is going to be good. Say the 4 of them are good, you still might have 56 as part of the group of 6/7.

    Who cares, per say, if hes a good caphit. We want the nest 6/7 guys we can have at once, within cap.

  31. I thought it was interesting the picture Tab chose for this post that shows Seabrook’s “7” and Kieth’s “2” – “72” – which is what the Hawks would need to trade to get “72” back and not end up in cap hell within a couple years.

    Putting aside the emotional tease of this 4-game win streak, trading Keith is a symbol of intent. It symbolizes the Hawks have decided to cut from the past and actually jump full into the retool/rebuild. Not trading Keith doesn’t necessarily mean the opposite because Keith controls his destiny, but trading him tells the world the the Hawks have officially hit the reset button and that is an emotional hurdle that, if taken, sets the course rather than drifting along into certain obscurity. Either be bold and chart your own course of let the winds of chance decide your future.

    That goes for both roads before them – if they win another couple games and the idea they have a chance to make the playoffs and win a round or two takes hold – then do something to make the 2018/19 team better down the stretch. Or if the decision has already been made that 2018/19 is a write off and the retool has been started – then do something about it. But don’t “do nothing”. Just floating along is a non-decision that is the worst decision to “not make”.

  32. Yes they have got to get Slater KK in the lineup fairly consistently and soon to gain a clear understanding of what they’ve got in him. Somewhat surprising he didn’t get into either of these last two games. Maybe tomorrow vs. Edmonton.

  33. @Mo, I am not sure what the market is for Gus so I can’t say for sure what it “looks like”. My thinking is simply that since the Hawks aren’t motivated to move him (like they may be next year if they don’t plan on resigning him) they can afford to try and get more for him since not making a trade isn’t really bad for them. The key is not to move him unless you are getting so much more in return for him that it makes sense to do it.

  34. I have said before and others mentioned it too, why not try to give Seabrook a look up front. He could maybe fit in with Kampf and Saad on the matchup/ checking line or even play a Buff type role on the wing with Toews and Kane.

  35. Ian I think that Seabrook’s inability to skate quickly or for very long eliminate his ability to play a forward position right now.

  36. Silent he still plays close to 20 minutes a night, quite a bit more than most forwards. I doubt AA or Strome get up down the ice any quicker so don’t buy that argument even a little.

  37. Silent – agree on Seabs not skating well enough to be a FW but I have been in favour of giving Gus a try at forward but probably not going to happen

    Miroslav – my thought on Gus getting more at next year’s TDL is based on him repeating this year’s offensive performance – if he can establish himself as a consistent offensive producer over most of 2 seasons I think he’s be very attractive to many teams especially those struggling to score

    By that time hopefully Joki or Boquist is ready to take over PP1 however if Gus is able to improve on his D game while maintaining his offensive production then the Hawks can sign him themselves but if he doesn’t improve defensively in the next year I don’t think he can be a top 6 D on a contending team IMO and the Hawks can probably afford to trade him at that point

    Think Mike Green as another example (especially when he was younger) of a good Offensive D man that never had a deep playoff run partly because he was not very good defensively – just saying no contending team thought about adding Mike Green to take their run at the Cup

  38. Didn’t say it would work putting Saebrook upfront, hence the word try, A wise man once said you never know until you do. As far as skating the thought is, AA is being moved and he is no faster so not changing the look of the forwards and may give defensemen people want playing a chance to get in lineup.

  39. Wrap, Gus reminds me of Larry Murphy who made a hall of fame career being an offensive only defenseman who always was a liability defending.

  40. Don’t agree on Larry Murphy – he was much better at D than Gus

    Gus should aspire to being Larry Murphy – good to great at O and average at D

  41. Agree on the great at O part but not so sure on the good at D part. Even when picked for hof some questioned his selection because of that even with all his offensive and longetivity accomplishments.

  42. I like a lot of the comments on Gus. I was surprised when he was signed to a 2 year deal. At the time, there was no justification in his play to warrant it.

    Now, it looks like a great move. Line up the top scoring dmen in the league and their cap hits, and Gus is probably the best bargain outside of the guy on Ottawa that took over Karlsson’s role. You don’t trade out of an asset like that unless someone blows you away, which, someone might try to.

  43. Ian I love your posts but I have to respectfully side with Wrap here on Murphy. I followed his career in Washington when they had him and Scott Stevens, and then with Pittsburgh where he won two Cups. Earlier in his career he was very offensive but he became more than servicable defensively over the course of his career.

    I doubt very severely no matter how well Gus continues to develop anyone will consider even putting him on a ballot to see if he gets in the hall of fame. Big difference

  44. Fair enough, not going to debate Murphy liked him as player also. The lack of D label followed him and there were disenters at his hof selection due do that though. Honestly though other than a tendency to pinch too much and get caught a bit i don ‘t remember him being really bad. Just a style comparison with Gus more than a ceiling of ability was what intention was.

  45. Seabrook after practice denies he was asked to waive the NMC, the comments afterwards were interesting.

    A reporter asks him what he’d do if asked. Seabrook says he hasn’t thought about it, he’d deal with it when (then he quickly said if) that day comes.

    Personally I think he’s telling the truth but a game of semantics is going on. On one hand I’m sure some informal conversations have taken place, probably with his agent. Which is probably where Hockey Night in Canada got their intel.

    Let’s not forget being asked to waive a NMC is not an informal, pass you by in the hallway and ask you type of thing. Waiving the clause is a legal document which must be presented through the agent and signed off by the player.

    So Seabrook is more than likely correct in his words this morning. Not only that, no one (Blackhawks, Seabrook, agent) wants this situation hanging over the team the next three weeks before the deadline. It was addressed this morning as most of these situations are / will be addressed around the league.

    Meaning, until the framework of a deal is in place, the player is not “officially” asked to waive (sign off on) the clause.

    That’s why I say a game of semantics is going on.

  46. I guess you never say never but the notion of trading Seabrook is either in the far fetched category or the stupid category – far fetched because with Chiarelli out of a job there can’t possibly be a GM that would touch Seabrook’s contract with a 10 foot pole, or stupid because Stan would have to be stupid to incentivize the trade to the extent it would take to pull it off. It would take much more then including Teravainen to get Carolina to take Bickell for a team to take Seabrook.

    So let’s get back to the real world and discuss trading Keith who probably won’t get as much as we want but it the right move to make if the plan is to rebuild the team to be a viable Cup contender for longer than the next 2-3 years.

  47. Maybe his agent was approached with an idea of leaving #7 unprotected for the expansion draft…?

    He would need to waive his NMC for this to happen, yes?

  48. Corey Crawford was on the ice taking shots again today – not in official practice mode but still it’s a positive sign that he is feeling well enough to hope he can resume his career. While that’s good for Corey – is it good for the Hawks? I don’t mean does it mess up the lose for Hughes stuff – I mean from a moving forward standpoint – can the Hawks rely on Crawford to be their starting goalie when they are back in a position to challenge for the Cup? Wouldn’t there always be a niggling feeling that the team is one Malkin elbow away from having their chances diminished? Especially because the last two times Crawford had his brain scrambled it was a lengthy recovery period – the first time was multiple months and while we don’t know how long this time will end up being – it’s certainly longer than it takes to play a 7-game playoff series.

  49. I thought that even when Crawford was playing, in post game interviews he spoke so slowly and haltingly that I wondered if there weren’t lingering effects from head trauma. I mean he must have passed the protocol’s to play again, but I’ve seen him talk before, and it sure looked like it took him longer to work through his thoughts that it usually does, and he is not a fast talker to start.

    It’s a tough call. On one hand, the nature of this injury, even when he is ‘healthy’, he is more susceptible to additional concussions. On the other hand, he is the only goalie in the entire system that could backstop you to another Cup. So if you get rid of Crawford, you might as well trade Keith, and whomever else for futures, because Delia, while young and improving, is not going to backstop you to a Cup just yet, if ever.

  50. With Crawford it pretty much is what it is. If he is healthy he is number one, this season Delia goes back to Rockford, next season he’d be backup, maybe playing alot of the games. If Crawford not able to play, this year is status quo. Next season a low cost backup. Not sure if Lankinen be ready, Forsberg not sure if the confidence in him there, Nalimov supposedly Bowman agreed to give him a shot next season, so possibilities there. Maybe Ward resigned or somebody else. Then when time comes that a cup run is coming a decision on what they have vs what they feel they need will be made. If it happens next year is all in time for a run then either Crawford is the man or in worst case if needed his ltir space for a rental would be available. After next season his contract is up and decisions can be made either go with whats here, or acquire a goalie.

  51. Option for a backup at tdl next year for insurance if Crawford is playing would be something that could be looked at if called for too.

  52. Given the circumstances I think it’s only fair to Seabrook and Keith they be asked if they want to be moved. It’s business but it’s also somewhat of respect to the players in that maybe they don’t want to be part of a declining team with no chance to win. The prospect of winning a 4th cup could be on their mind. However when I read rumors about where players will sign “the chance to win a cup” comes up often. I have to believe there are plenty of players out there who are just as interested in a big contract. Wouldn’t you be?

    Anyway; Seabrook’s contract is basically untradeable. I’m not saying “he’s done” or anything like that. I love Seabrook, but that contract is long and expensive. Keith. I could see a lot of NHL teams wanting Keith on the team. Especially if there was some kind of agreement for Keith to return to the Blackhawks after going for the cup. If such a thing was possible and Keith was okay on the initial trade (with no 100%guarantee of a return) then I would think most of the playoff of teams would definitely be interested. A team hard up against the cap that wants to go for the cup (playoff revenue) might do it. I’ve never heard of this happening; and I’m not sure a team would risk it; but the Jets are perfect for this on all counts.

    I would like to add that these hockey writers have jobs….and I’m of the opinion just like the “real world” press they tend to make stuff up, run with rumor, print likely scenarios, and outright lie. If they didn’t all they would have to type about is the play on the ice. I’ve read some sports writers work online; take yahoo for example; and I wonder if they even watch hockey. I mean….some of the things they write about a game are not what I saw having watched it-and I’m not even talking about thing they get outright wrong like who scored etc etc-I’m talking about abstract parts of the game, oh but that Kane rape story….they could write about that all day!

    My initial feeling on the Keith rumors was a Canadian press writer hoping to influence Keith to a beloved Canadian team to help bring the cup back to Canada. Whether they were hoping someone on the Blackhawks or a Canadian team were influenced by it….hey it worked right? We have our local press asking Keith and Seabrook right to their face about it!!! I guess when you’re a press writer you can do the same thing as a forum poster, Just have a bigger audience and less dialogue with the readers.

  53. The return for a Keith trade I think would need to be greater than either Muzzin or Hartman to name two players traded for 1st rounders and those returns were pretty good.

    Keith has 4 more years and stays in great shape – he’s no longer a Norris contender but could play effectively until his contract expires

    In addition to a first rounder I think his return should come with an top NHL ready
    prospect or even a roster player, not a B level prospect a la Edjsell

    You don’t want to trade Keith and be thinking ‘the return was a bit skinny wasn’t it?’

    He’s a heart and soul guy who even if he goes for a really good package (of course he was to be willing) it will be an emotional punch in the gut for the remaining core players

  54. Wrap, what about Gustav playing the Leads role. Sits the bench during most of 3rd and contributes during every game with what hes good at and purpose of guys like Rozy.

  55. Thats the prob with the general public. More then half the people in world thought Kane and Paterno did/was a part of and when the truth came out, both guys did not have anything to do with it. Nothing should be made public until over, because the general public cant handle it and assumes it.

    Both guys are very good people and are Legends, forever.

    This aint no church choir. This is a mens hockey club.

  56. Toronto-as an example seems to be wanting to shed some salary, if they take on a salary like Gudas/Keiths’-reasonable salaries but still enough to stretch their limits in future-the name being thrown around is Zaitsev (age 29 and his 4.5 million for several years) Who would take all that on?
    Ahhh., no one!!
    So they would like someone to take on part of his salary, then give a nice return. Like one of their young excess forwards (Kapanen/Johnsson?) and pick-picks. (not a first) With Kapanen perhaps just one pick. Personally they would be crazy to give up on him, but money pressure talks and he will be paid in a couple of years.

  57. I have avidly followed this site and enjoyed many of the posts. I have not posted before this moment but, due to comments about Joe Paterno on a Blackhawks site, I thought I would. Joe Paterno’s lack of responsible action allowed a child predator to remain on his staff or affiliated with the Penn State football team for decades. Paterno’s lack of will to place child safety and decency above his determination to protect his precious football program, directly contributed to the sexual abuse and/or rape of an unknown number of children. Paterno’s legacy is not his being a “legend” but rather his turning his eyes away from the suffering of helpless children so that nothing would tarnish his football team’s record. Those actions and non-actions make him complicit in his assistant’s crimes and wipes out anything that mere accomplishments on a football field could ever count for. Shame on those site contributors who praise such a man.

  58. I personally know people at Penn State and Paterno told his boss, the athletic director and chief of police everything he knew and that was people got touched, he did not know people got raped. Therefore he did everything he was suppose to and why the judge cleared his name of any wrong doing.

    Not going to argue on this as I did yrs ago and the general public just does not know the truth, with the Paterno part of it. I am related to Shultz, the cheif of police and my fraternity brothers best friend from high school is Spanier the college President for those yrs/decades. I know things general public doesnt.

    Peace be to all.

  59. More and more I’m thinking the plan moving forward needs to be more clearly defined – specifically is the focus a 3-4 year plan or a 5-8 year plan. Any moves done at the TDL and this summer should be geared for the shorter versus longer plan. Keith could work in the 3-4 year plan but not the 5-8 year plan. Is the objective to take another shot at winning with the remnants of the old core or to build a new core around T&K?

  60. Those kinds of thing happen at every college in country. Whay make a big deal about Penn State, because Penn State and Paterno are those kind of people, Legends. Good people. Same kind of stuff happened at Duke, Syarcuse, Michigan St. It happens everywhere. I am not happy with it at all. Just that I know information the general public doesnt and that FBI guy lied about his findings and the public believed him for two yrs, until judge said he wanted to see everything he had reported and it showed that guy lied and what he based Paterno, did not prove he was part of it.

    People can think what they want. Thats why I think nothing should be made public because they cant handle it. They assume.

  61. I am not going to talk about this again on this blog, unless people tlak about the Kane rape thing because both guys were made to be looked at badly and didnt really do anything wrong. Half of what is in the newspapers, about everything, is false.

  62. If management believes that the time horizon for the Hawks becoming a serious contender is two or three seasons from now, then I believe it makes sense to attempt to trade 35-year-old Keith now to receive maximum value. Disagree with Wrap that Keith would need to bring in a greater return than Muzzin (6 years younger) or Hartman (11 years younger). Realistically, something comparable to the other trades is the best case scenario.

  63. It shouldnt matter if its a kid, high school person, college student, someone between 22-45, 45-85 rape is not cool and its the same for anyone at any age. Its wrong. What the general public should pay attention to is how good the school and community did after that happened. They did the right thing, as much as they could to help the people involved.

    How would any of us or Blackhawks people feel/think if Kane got a bad image like Paterno did, and wasnt allowed to play hockey for two yrs. Then fins out in court, when judge said he wants to see everything. Then verdict is Kane is 100% clean and can play hockey again. Thats what happened to him.

    Anyways, its anyones opinion on these different colleges having these same thing happen at them but it happens everywhere. You only hear about it at the good places, because people want to hang the Jesuses of the world.

    gday.

  64. Nobody turned eyes with that. After Paterno reported, everything he knew to his bosses, the college fired that guy. Officially resigned. How many times you hear that, officially resigned, it happens everywhere.

  65. If the judge didnt clear Paterno 100%, the ncaa would not have apologized and returned the wins and sanctions they did, which should have been out of their jurisdiction, after the truth came out in court two yrs later the public had their minds made up in the first 6mths of that.

    Paternos family is sewing the ncaa for damage o him and their family. It was handled wrongly by college initially and by ncaa when the public knew 7 yrs after they fired the guy who did it.

    Kane and Paterno are good guys and I ll have words with anyone in parking lot.

  66. ER, it has to be the 5-10 yrs plan. We ll be deep again in 2 yrs. Maybe really deep in 3 yrs, so it makes sense that its the 2/3-10 yr plan. Otherwise we would have added not traded away the last two deadlines and not added elite ufas. We traded for younger and faster and did tank ufas last two summers.

  67. Question on the subject of Seabrook and his NMC…….. can the Blackhawks send him down to Rockford if he refuses to waive his NMC……. I know his numbers do not come off the books, but maybe if he realizes he will be riding buses with the rest of the Ice Hogs maybe he’d be inclined to waive this clause to get back to the NHL……. I know this sounds backstabbing, but watching Seabrook trying to skate is like watching moss grow on trees…… unforgettable….

  68. Seabsy boy aint going anywhere like that. To much respect for a guy, regardless of past prime yrs or other blimps on the radar.

  69. Seabrook’s NMC is just that, a no movement clause – that means no trade as well as no moving down to the minors

  70. Greg Romancek: So very well stated. It was proven that Paterno and others in the organization knew what was going on and looked the other way. He may have been a big winner on the field, but tolerating child abuse to further his program made him a criminal and big loser in life.

  71. The only thing that a team can do without a player waiving his nmc is buyout in the summer. Those numbers are not good as far as saving cap space in Seabrooks case, unlikely to happen.

  72. Guys, c’mon. We don’t need to be discussing Joe Paterno or other non-hockey related stuff. on this hockey website. Please. Responding to others who say something you disagree with regarding non-hockey related topics is being part of the problem – just ignore it.

  73. ER, your right. Only stated it because of someone posted Kane rape thing accused and did not do it. In the college thing the others did it covered it not him, he reported what he knew. People can believe/think what they want. They only know whats in the newspaper. We know people who know some of those people so have information public doesn’t know about. Public cant handle it and it does happen everywhere, rape type things.

  74. So Craig said the organization was going to trade to get picks/prospects at deadline and draft. There going to do that then we trade more then 16 and 15. You guys think we trade any of 56, 2, 20 or just 15 and 16.

    I guessing we trade 16, 15 and others stay. 56 might get more/same next deadline or he stays to be part of group. Otherwise we get good return for 56 and rely on blue chip defensemen we already have coming and a ufa at some point. One thought is why add middle area picks 3-5th round for guys that establishing themselves like 56. Its the 1sts and maybe 2nd that are worth getting in trades.

    I guess it depends on the return for 56 if hes traded this deadline or next deadline.

  75. What gives Hawks fans. Trade this or trade that. We are 5 points out of the playoffs and at the most 8 if St Louis wins the next 3 (FLA, TBL, NAS, NAS,

    In fact St Louis has a brutal schedule in March and April with 3 back to back games with 5 of the six on the road.

    Anyone want to see a horrible schedule. Look at MN’s March to April games. WTF, the commish must hate them.

    I did not look at COL but the Hawks have an incredibly easy schedule until April. See my last post on the previous blog. We should be talking who can the Hawks add to get us into the playoffs. And we are not even discussing Corey returning.

  76. We had a terrible sch the first 40 games. The 2nd 40 games the sch is normal for us. Even though the points are close like that, we need to get to 5 over .500 to be there. So were not that close.

  77. Stopped being lazy. I just looked at CO for Feb: 13 games only 2 against Non Playoff teams: VAN the last game and the Awesome @Hawks on the front end with the backend @NASH.

    The Hawks next 13 games only 3 playoff teams: @BOS, Home against CBJ and DAL Can we get out of the doom and gloom lets get the #1/#2 pick and make the playoffs. I guess most of you like the Herm Edwards quote “Playoffs” “You Play to win the game”. Hawks win 5th.

  78. Hawks in TX, do you really think the Hawks can beat Winnipeg in a 7-game series? Or Nashville? Or San Jose? No, no, and no. Therefore, even if the Hawks find a way to jump over 5 or 6 teams and get one of the Wild Card slots, the best that can be reasonably hoped for would be to win one series, and maybe not even that. The result of that means the Hawks draft position would be somewhere in the 16-24 range AND a trade chip like Keith would be one year older and not not worth as much, AND the Hawks will be mired in mediocrity for another season of Toews and Kanes prime years. Making the playoffs shouldn’t be the objective for this team – it should be winning the Cup and the Hawks are not good enough to win the Cup. So it’s better to suck for a season or two and get higher draft positions so in couple years the Hawks will have more high caliber players surrounding T&K and that’s when we make a push for the Cup.

  79. Hmmm. You mean Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Saad, Kruger (2-3 Cups each) think they can’t beat any team in 7 games. These core guys with all these cups should just throw the season away because Ebonyraptor thinks they can’t win. I thought you played games to WIN not lose. I do not know if you played any sports in your life ER, but I would never lose for the sake of losing. Where is your competitive nature? You think for one minute Kane, Toews and the rest aren’t hungry to win and are embarrassed they missed the playoffs last year. These guys are some of the best Pro’s a team could want to cheer for. Hearing Chelsea Dagger get into the other teams head. Add a top 9 forward or a top 4 defender, maybe a bottom 3 and you will be singing Chelsea Dagger as well.

    Holy cow, some of you need to go root for the Bulls because Forman/Paxson, those guys like losing, as for me and the Hawks. I love winning from a fan who watched the Hawks for the past 30 years. Make it 5 tomorrow.

  80. We/all of us want to win, badly, to. Were just not have a deep enough roster to compete fairly against those top teams. We will in 2yrs, even better in 3yrs. Not yet though. I love beating the top 10 teams this yr when we have, which I think is more then half of the games. We just simply need more deepness, 9 top 9 players, more established top 4 Defensemen. These guys are coming, but were not there yet, deepness wise.

  81. Ask Tom Brady if he would lose a few games because no one, and I mean no one (except Boston fans) had the Patriots winning the SB this year, to get a better draft pick. NE retools every year and gets to the SB. Tom Brady, WTF, how dare you win a Super Bowl with Tom Edelman as your #1 receiver. ER, common man. You can’t be serious in asking Toews and Kane and crew to lose games. It is not what they do, it’s not what stars do. VGK made it to the finals. Do you think those guys would trade the #1 pick for a chance to win the Cup?

  82. Happy to hear Seabs and Keith both declined to waive their no trade clause. They both deserve to retire with the Hawks with the opportunity to someday work for the organization as well. Every game they give 100 percent of fearless committment on the ice. I don`’t think there is anyone better than 2 & 7 to hang around and teach the future undersized dmen of this roster to play big. One is a Hallof famer and the other a Hall of fame leader!
    Well done. How ignorant of Bowman to dismiss this fact. He should focus on trading AA , Kunitz, Davidson, Forsling, Kruger, Martinson, Hayden, Sikura and Ward.
    DON’T TOUCH 19, 88, 2, 7, 50 (All players drafted by the Hawks and you know who?)
    Go Kane, Go Hawks!

  83. Chelsea Dagger hasnt had that feel to it last/this yr. It will at times next yr. When I hear Chelsea Dagger at the start of the 21 season it will be chills again.

  84. Hull65. One day Seabs and Keith maybe our 5/6 pairing. Could be as early as next year and probably the year after that. I still think Sikura will be a good player. Forsling and Hayden would be tough to depart with but someone has to go. I would laugh if Kunitz scored the winning goal in Game 7 of the Cup. Maybe like Bolland did.

    Who would be your target for a top 9 OFF or a top 4 DEF.

  85. What if Bowman did something crazy and got Panarin away from Columbus. I bet the majority of you would say screw the #1/2 pick. Let’s win the cup.

  86. We would take Bread Man in summer ufas and/or sign Franson and Dzingal. Those are the guys people posted about.

    Why would we waste any assets trading for them, when we can get them for free.

  87. 18 draft- lots of defensmen
    19 draft- lots of FW

    19 summer- lots of FW
    20 summer- ? of defesnemen

    Get best when available.

  88. Hawks in Tx,
    Kunitz has had a great career (thx Sid) and if he scores the winning goal in game 7 this year, it may happen only if he joins Washington or San Jose?
    Otherwise, he could be a college scout in the new regime next year in Chicago.
    As far as free agent targets:

    Forwards: Panarin, Skinner and Stone (all 27 years old and in their prime) Honourable mentioin to Dzingel and Donskoi.

    Defencemen: Karlsson, Myers, otherwise nothing much out there.

  89. Hawks in TX – I want the Hawks to win as much as any Hawks fan but the truth of it is most of those players you listed are not as good as they were when they last won the Cup in 2015. If you think 2019 Keith is as good as 2015 Keith, or 2019 Seabrook is as good as 2015 Seabrook, or 2019 Kruger is as good as 2015 Kruger, or that the Hawks have anyone on the roster to replace the 2015 Hossa, or that the Hawks have anyone on the roster to replace the 2015 Hjalmarsson, or that Crawford is even going to play again this season and if he does return from the concussion if he will be able to play all the way through the season and playoffs.

    To make a case that Tom Brady can win at 40 so why count out the Hawks is an absurd argument. The Patriots don’t have a whole team full of 40 year olds – they have a whole team of young guys and one old guy.

    If you think it’s just EbonyRaptor that thinks the Hawks aren’t good enough to win a playoff series against the best teams, let alone 4 playoff series to win the Cup – then you haven’t read the opinions of many many Hawks fans.

    They have 4 wins in a row and all of a sudden dreams of playoff success is dancing in your head? What is the weakest part of the Hawks game? Team defense. The Hawks have given up the most goals in the league – there isn’t any other team worse defensively than the Hawks. Let that sink in. Why have the Hawks given up the most goals you might ask? Because their d-men can’t handle an aggressive forecheck and the forwards don’t play good team defense so they constantly don’t clear the puck and leave opponents with wide open shots in the slot or put backs goal scrambles because to don’t clear the crease or win stick check battles. Those shortcomings don’t show up against other bad teams but they sure as hell will against Winnipeg, Nashville, San Jose, Calgary and the top teams in the East.

    Simply making the playoffs isn’t good enough anymore. The objective s to win the Cup and they aren’t good enough regardless how much you or me or other Hawks fans wish they were.

  90. Seabs and Keith are going to stay. Agreeing with Tex that they will be and are the best teachers for the Horsemen. ER there is no athlete that loses on purpose besides are very own Black Sox.

    The way I see it playing out is we have Seabs until Seattle takes him in the draft. Didn’t see the angle if Q is there then he might go sooner. He will be wearing the C for them. A year or two after that Keith goes to an East playoff team at TDL for something we need for our playoff run. At that time the Horsemen can play and the other two Dmen are Murphy and Gus/KK.

    The playoff scenario I see is we play and beat Cal. The other wild card beats the Central champ. While seeds 2 and 3 destroy each other in round one we then play a tired Vegas team. Now after we beat Vegas we can wish to play the other wild card team for the conference. Continuing our march to the Stanley Cup that’s where anything can happen.

    Can’t wait for those famous words. Game Seven!

  91. The Hawks have scored the 9th most goals in the league. Scoring goals is not a problem for the Hawks, especially now that the PP is clicking. Adding Panarin almost certainly results in even more scoring. Adding Panarin does nothing to improve the league’s worst defense. When was the last time a team won the Cup with the league’s worst defense? Or even a defense in the bottom third of the league?

  92. Where have I suggested the players should lose on purpose? I have never suggested that and I don’t think the players would ever do that – at least the type of players we want on our team. But the front office can affect wins and losses to some extent and unlike a few years ago when I was a proponent of spending future assets to go all in and win now – the situation is different now. The Hawks aren’t a Vermette away from being a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. Spending future assets to make the playoffs and maybe win one round is pissing away the future for not much in the present.

  93. Great posts by ER. Don’t have time to add to his detailed analysis, other than to say I agree that if the Hawks become buyers just to make the playoffs, they hurt their long-term prospects. They are nowhere close to making a deep run this year. The defense is weak, although there is good talent in their pipeline. 2 and 7 are aging. Upfront, they have 4-5 high-quality players who account for nearly all of their offensive scoring. And finally, HELP WANTED: Two centers and long-term franchise goalie.

    If Bowman is smart, he will be selling for picks and prospects in the next few weeks.

  94. I guess the Blackhawks are where the front office feels they are. Agree with the “you play to win the game attitude”. With the favorable schedule and weak west conference, playoffs are a possibility. Getting these young guys a taste if playoff hockey and a feel of what it takes to win there is as important step as any to get them back to the top again.

  95. @ Hull65

    Time for your daily thrashing.
    Your quote:

    “Well done. How ignorant of Bowman to dismiss this fact. He should focus on trading AA , Kunitz, Davidson, Forsling, Kruger, Martinson, Hayden, Sikura and Ward.”

    You know for a FACT both Keith and Seabrook were asked to waive their NMC’s? Interesting. They both came out in interviews saying they hadn’t been asked. Did those two guys share their inner most thoughts with you as Kane apparently did last week when you said he’d want to be traded to Buffalo?

    It is now less than three weeks before the trade deadline. No doubt Bowman is focusing on trades just like the other 30 GM’s including and maybe especially your GM buddy Tallon who is looking to do what he does best, throw money at his problems because he can’t figure out how else to get anything done down there in Florida (2 playoff appearances in 8 years).

    You really have a hard time following along, don’t you? And how are you coming along answering the many questions posed to you, like … how is that letter to Rocky Wirtz doing? Why have you not written it yet? Are you afraid of something? If so, what?

  96. @ Hull65

    Another thing you got wrong …

    “DON’T TOUCH 19, 88, 2, 7, 50 (All players drafted by the Hawks and you know who?)”

    You DO know Keith (2) and Crawford (50) were drafted under the regime of Tallon’s predecessor in Chicago, right? That Tallon was not the GM? You pin ALL draft choices on the GM at the time, you do that constantly with Bowman. Sorry, can’t have it both ways.

    Although your error this time was probably not intentional in your bias toward Bowman, simply a lack of knowledge. Which you exhibit daily.

    You lose.

  97. If you are saying we are two centers and one depth defenseman away of being a good, contending team, isn’t that what TDL is for? I believe we have an advantage. I hear all the “why trade for him when we can get him for nothing later “. Well I believe going to get a Duchene in trade without giving up a ton would be advantageous. Let him get a taste of playing alongside Kane and Toews and DCat. He might like it. Then sign him long term.
    If possible trade for Jeff Carter at a discount rate and you have two centers. Or you trade for Brian Boyle for an run at it. Maybe possible to get Cody Ceci for your depth defenseman.
    Now you have the pieces you say we are lacking. Let’s make a run!

  98. Hawks in TX-the Hawks lost in the first round when they lead the league in points (109)-they are getting some points in the dog days of the season against teams playing tight. (I’m not saying they aren’t playing better-they are-and it’s much more fun to watch) But
    that is still a stretch to say this is a playoff ready team-they have an aging goalie who any rationale person would say is in decline, an unproven but promising rookie and a guy with two significant concussions in the last two years as their goalies. A weird miss of young d, offensive d (Gus) and older past Champs that may not be able to hold up to the pounding that will happen in the playoffs-heavy, fast hockey.
    Oh and a great center, a superstar and a sniper-but other teams have that.
    A REAL stretch. Things will happen as they happen, and players won’t go down without a fight, but this isn’t a true Contender.

  99. Fantasyland.

    Guess I need to resurrect my 5 top 35 picks we get at the draft who will all be traded to Pittsburgh theory. Think about it – 11 cups in the next 12 years!! Happy Hawks fans again! Who needs patience when there is a simple plan ready to go?

    We can stop calling the west the stronger conference and the central the strongest division. Just look at Hawks records and breakdown of wins this year. We are 10-4-3 against central and 1-10-3 against the pacific.

    ER – take the day off from the board. No need to defend yourself here. We know who the people are that understand the game, and you certainly are one of them.

  100. Jr and Tx good points, the years that the veterans can contribute to a contender are wasting. Sitting in a “field of dreams” world of build it and the cups will come isn’t that simple or realistic as some believe it to be. A decision to go all in has to happen sooner rather than later if the goal really is to win again with 88, 19 and the rest.

  101. Just a follow up on Hull65’s assertions that Tallon drafted both Keith and Crawford:

    Here from Dale Tallon’s Wikipedia page:

    “In 1998, Tallon joined the Blackhawks front office as director of player personnel, a position he held until (May) 2002. After then serving as assistant general manager, beginning on November 5, 2003, he was named the Blackhawks’ eighth general manager in team history on June 21, 2005, succeeding Bob Pulford.”

    The page also says Tallon went back to a broadcasting role for the 2002-03 season, which I recall but had to check the dates.

    Now, on to when Keith and Crawford were drafted.

    Keith: June 2002
    Crawford: June 2003

    Hull65’s mantra is to give credit / blame for draft choices to the GM (especially credit if it’s Tallon and blame if it’s Bowman).

    Tallon was NOT the GM when both Keith and Crawford were drafted.

    Hull65, can you get ANYTHING right?

    For the record, I am eternally grateful for Tallon’s contributions in helping build the 2010 Stanley Cup team.

    But Hull65’s clueless revisionist history needs to be challenged.

  102. This quote from Bowman from the Lazerus article on the Athletic titled “Lazerus: Should the Blackhawks have fired Joel Quenneville sooner?” I think gives insight into what Bowman’s plan is:

    ‘He said the Blackhawks had been in “maintenance mode” for years during the Stanley Cup era but that they’re now in “building mode.” He said that returning to elite status doesn’t happen in one deadline, one draft, one free-agency. He said everything is a process.’

    Two things of note about the quite, 1) Bowman made a distinction between the Cup era and now (ie, the team is not in the Cup era anymore) calling it maintenance mode -vs- building mode. Not sure if building is the same as re-building, but in Stan’s mind the Hawks are not in the same head space as they were during there Cup runs. 2) He gave a sense of time indicating that the work could not be done soon, it “doesn’t happen in one deadline, one draft, one free-agency.”

    What the quote doesn’t indicate is how far away from elite he feels this team is. Which would have been a nice follow up question from Mark.

    So in the GM’s mind he is in “building mode” and returning to elite status “doesn’t happen in one deadline, one draft, one free-agency.”

    Later in the same article, Bowman does indicate that he thinks the team would be much better even if the same team was brought back (which he assured is not going to happen) so maybe this is a clue that indicates how close the team is to being competitive or “elite.”

    Not sure how to interpret these little crumbs of information. I think it is VERY telling that Stan makes does not see the team the same way as he did the Cup contending teams. I wonder when maintenance mode ended and Building mode began? Was it being swept from the playoffs in 2017? Was it Hossa “retiring?” Was it the Panarin trade? Was it missing the playoffs last season? That would have been a really nice follow up question from Mark.

    I am not sure if this information necessarily conflicts with the statements made by McDonough that this team is a playoff team. Being a playoff team does not necessarily mean you are elite, so I don’t think Stan is lying about anything. But I can think of a lot of questions I would ask about building mode…

  103. I should clarify, it wasn’t a direct quote from Bowman, rather, I was quoting Mark Lazerus who in his article was paraphrasing Bowman. Sorry for the confusion. I think Bowman actually used the terms “maintenance mode” and “building mode” since Lazerus put them in quotes. But the rest of it was paraphrased.

  104. One thing I think that bears clearing up in the endless Hull65 RowA debate is Tallon’s role in the drafts. Before becoming general manager he was assistant general manager to who? Bob Pulford, who took over (out of semi-retirement) for the fired Mike Smith. During that time, Pulford was not the guy running the drafts, Tallon was, as that was his area and he was being groomed to become the GM.

    Mike Smith was fired in 2003 and the 2003 was the last draft he ran. In 2002 he drafted Keith in the 2nd round, in 2003 (generally regarded as maybe the greatest draft in the history of the draft, certainly the modern history of the draft, look through the first few rounds) he took Seabrook in the first round and Crawford in the 2nd.

  105. So guys like Bolland, Bickell, and Hjarlmsson were drafted by Tallon running the draft for Pulford during the 2004 and 2005 drafts before Tallon was offically made GM.

  106. I have a tendency to dig my heels in – to be strident in my beliefs. That’s all well and good in matters that really matter but opinions regarding what a sports team should do or not do … well, maybe I’m being a little too strident. Especially when I can’t influence the outcome of any of it. I know this is what message boards are for – arguing opinions, but I’m going to try to be more open minded, at least until I’m not.

    So, how about those playoff bound Hawks. They have been playing better lately and it’s been more fun watching them play. Hell, maybe I should take a more myopic view and want as much success now as possible because none of us are promised tomorrow and I could be playing a harp in the clouds by the time the Hawks 2-year retool is complete.

    Yeah, let’s go out and get a couple rent-a-players and ride this puppy. We may not be as good as we once was but we’re as good once as we ever was … or something like that. I feel like being Slim Pickens riding the atom bomb like a bucking bronco in Dr. Strangelove – YEE HA!

    We’ll go get all the best UFA rent-a-players available now – Stone, Duchene and Dzingel from Ottawa, Simmonds from Phily, and Panarin and Bobrovsky from Columbus,

    We’ll trade all the players not listed below in the lineup, as well as Jokiharju, Boqvist, Beaudin, Mitchell, Kurashev, Entwistle, Barratt, Sikura, and as many 1st round draft picks as it takes for Stan to make this all work.

    Panarin-Toews-Kane
    DCat-Strome-Stone
    Dzingel-Duchene-Simmonds
    Saad-Kampf-Caggiula

    Keith-Seabrook
    Dahlstrom-Murphy
    Koekkoek-Gustafsson

    Bobrovsky
    Delia

    We’ll beat everyone 12-11. Yeah baby! YEE HA!!!!

  107. @HereIsMike

    Of course, you are right, anyone who knows how the draft works, it is not just the general manager. But Hull65 has this habit which I challenge. And that is, Tallon gets the credit for ANY draft choice that turned out good if he was even anywhere around the team. Bowman gets blamed for ANY draft choice that turns out bad as long as they were drafted during his tenure.

    Double standard and that’s what I object to. Obviously I know Hull65 doesn’t truly understand the game, his rants are based on personal biases and grudges without consideration of the complete picture. I have always challenged those types of things.

  108. Roman, I would like to get a Douchknee, Bread Man, Stone player to. If not then I want two 4-6m/whatever the caphit would be are kind of players like, Franson, Dzingal playes. I just think if we want to load up best way possible is to get those guys for free as ufas, not trade assets for them.

  109. @ Miroslav

    Thank you for bringing that article up. I think Lazerus referred to a follow up article so maybe some of those follow up issues you correctly define will be addressed.

    Regarding the “switch over” from maintenance mode to building mode:

    Clearly when Q got fired and Colliton promoted. Although I believe they (front office) were discussing it and pondering it for a good 12 months prior. They decided to ride with Quenneville to start the year. The timing can be argued no matter where you stand on Q but the timing on firing a sure HOF coach is never perfect.

    Best statement you made:

    Being a playoff team doesn’t necessarily mean you’re an elite team.

    Whether they claw into the playoffs or not, the team will still be in building mode with an eye toward the future. They have to.

  110. MIROSLAV, to me Bowmans saying it was when we traded Hammer. Even though he was battled and been through that the way Hammer does he was still the kind you need to win the Cup. And then when Hoss had his thing. Bowman and those guys knew about that so it just happened sort of at the same time.

    I do not think it had to do with not beating NAS in 17, that should have been 2-1 games. Still they had better playoff roster and we needed to transition to younger and faster. Really faster, as the whole league got faster, while we were you know, winning a dynasty Stanley Cups.

  111. Mo, I believe we will be signing Breadman as a free agent because he has played with Kane so no trades needed for him. Like to give Stone or Duchene the same medicine. Again not giving up much because Ott know they are going to lose them. Just a bit more than someone else does, again if it’s not too much.

  112. Thanks Miroslav, not a subscriber so didn’t read article. To me maintenance mode would be struggling to stay competitive and being able to get under the cap at the same time. Last year and this be considered build mode to me. The main goal this season is to be a better team at the end than last year. Thats why the return to playoffs target was put out there to show that intent, how good that can be is unknown yet . I do believe a decision to go for it all has to come sooner than later though, don’t believe wasting the contributions the old core can still give will be ignored.

  113. Expanding upon my facetiousness, I will make amends. Selling the farm to acquire all the rent-a-players will be limited to everything not nailed down, as previously stated, except 1st and 2nd round draft picks after 2019. In other words the 1st and 2nd round picks for this coming draft – trade them (they’ll be #31 and #62 anyway so who cares), but the 1st and second round picks for 2020, 2021, 2022 and so on must not be traded. We shouldn’t let the plan to go all in to win this season totally bankrupt our progeny, and after winning the Cup this season with our super team all those rent-a-players will sign elsewhere and not only will we be bad but our cupboard will be completely empty.

    And that’s when the rebuild truly begins. Top-3 draft pick from now till the cows come home and we have a farm again.

    Git-r-done Stan. YEE HA!!!!

  114. Canucks are a good young team. Petersson is exceptional. Horvat is a solid centreman. I think they will make a good run at a playoff spot and possibly get there. With Sedins, Kesler, and clowns like Torres, Lapierre, and O’Brien gone the acrimony (at least for me) isn’t there like it was in past. Looking forward to seeing them this week.

  115. The Defense core is still a huge challenge for the Blackhawks. We have seen how much better they play once Murphy and Forsling got back from injury and Dahlstrom was recalled. Assuming Keith and Seabs stay, and Gus is running the powerplay again, next year we could see some improvement from Joki getting fully integrated into the rotation and one probably at most of the young guys making the team (it seems inevitable they will push Boquist onto the team out of camp).

    I would still like to see them shed some salary at the deadline with an eye toward adding forward depth in free agency or through trades (taking on salary for teams against the cap for instance, a reverse Teuvo type of trade would be nice). But that may have to wait until the summer.

    Kane and Toews are so good that they will not allow this team to finish bottom 5. They are too good. But as Ebony points out, the problem is still too many goals allowed. Whatever moves are made should be made with an eye toward fixing that problem.

  116. Maybe Boqvist gets the 9 game look but unless he gets much stronger this summer I think he might end up as road kill with the big club. Perhaps Carlsson or Raddysh can be the 7th guy next year.

    Boqvist’s aggressiveness on offence really catches your eye. I mean he probably ends up behind the other team’s red line at least once a period (a lot of guys don’t get there once a year). I wasn’t a fan of the pick, but he is definitely intriguing and does things offensively that few other do. His upside is potentially huge.

  117. I agree Jordy and would love to see that plan play out. Watching him try to defend big guys with the puck along the wall, even at the WJC, was very telling. He is not big or strong enough yet to defend at the NHL level. But he is the complete package as you say on the other side of the ice, for sure.

    With so many other options in the pipeline, it will be interesting to see who leaps on top and gets a crack at the big club next year. Hopefully they make a strong impact like Joki did the first 20 games or so, and hopefully Joki starts playing more like he did when Q was here, or getting the chance to.

    Dahlstrom has been a very pleasant, and very important, surprise for the Hawks this season.

  118. @Mike: For sure on Dahlstrom – he is much improved over last year. He’s had a few misadventures recently, but let’s call those growing pains. If he can get his confidence a bit higher then he and Murphy could be a mainstay shutdown pairing for awhile (definitely not elite, but solid). And amazing how much more comfortable Murphy looks on his natural right side (not that many can play both side seamlessly).

    As for Joki. I think he played far too many minutes too early, and it inevitably caught up with him. Then he had an excellent WJC. I fully expect him to benefit from time in the Rock and be back in the lineup next year. He does not turn 20 until June — that’s a pretty solid year so far for the guy.

    The nice thing overall is that the back line is starting to look like something that makes sense. The reduced workloads and reliance on 2/7, 56 running the PP, the partnership of 5/63; all of those are pluses. Now, if either KK or Forsling could step up and claim that last spot maybe we can continue to compete for the rest of the year. That would be enough for me.

  119. Jordy – Canucks play hard every night without superstars. A lot of credit has to go to Green – when he was hired that roster was ugly.

    Agree with your Boquist comments. I wasn’t sold on the pick but in the WJC I saw skills that few forwards possessed let alone d-men. His upside potential is very high but he needs to physically mature before being rushed to the NHL.

  120. I would really like to see the Hawks have Boqvist and Beaudin paired up and playing in Rockford next season. Let them learn together so they will have some of that “sum is greater than parts” when they make the Hawks in 2020/21. Keep them a pairing in Rockford and then start them out in sheltered 3rd pairing minutes on the Hawks in 2020/21 until they’re ready for a bigger role.

  121. Matthews signed an extension – 5yrs/$58M – cap hit of $11.6M. Look at what Toronto’s cap will look like next season:

    Matthews – $11.6M
    Tavares – $11.0M
    Nylander – $6.9M
    Marleau – $6.2M
    Kadri – $4.5M
    Reilly – $5.0M
    Zaitsev – $4.5M
    Muzzin – $4.0M
    Anderson – $5.0M
    Hyman – $2.2M
    Brown – $2.1M

    That’s 7 forwards, 3 d-men and 1 goalie for $67M.

    They still need to resign RFAs: Marner ($10M?), Kapanen ($4.5M?) and Johnsson ($2.5M?) which is another $17M.

    Add the RFAs $17M to $67M and you get $84M which is over the projected cap for 2019/20. AND they still need to sign 3 forwards, 4 d-men and a backup goalie.

    And, oh by the way, they have one more year of Nathan Horton’s $5.3M on the books.

    YIKES!

  122. Correction to previous post. The total cap hit for the 7 forwards, 3 d-man and 1 goalie is $63M – not $67M. So the total for 10 forwards, 3 d-men and 1 goalie should be $80M – not $84M.

    But still …

  123. I am going to seriously enjoy Toronto being in cap hell.

    A team with cap space should be able to swing a reverse Teuvo-Bickell type trade with them. I hope that team is the Hawks.

  124. Thats the reason for saying Gus would be very attactive to the Leafs at 1.2m next year too. Speculation is Marleau after getting paid 3m signing bonus July 1st his 6.2m+ caphit can be had for cost of 1.275m. So he’ll be picked up by a budget team and still being a productive top 6 on that leafs lineup.

  125. Anything TOR does like the scenarios above which are totally realistic won’t be until after the Cup has ben raised. The Leafs are all in for this year.

    What if the Hawks could get say Kapanen for their 1st rounder? – I think I’d do it.

  126. As you know I don’t bother with Hull65 (Makita21) posts but in reading other posts I see he’s back to giving Tallon credit for players he didn’t draft.

    I tried to lay out the facts for him regarding who drafted who but he was having none of the facts and preferred an alternate reality – that’s what you’re in for if you engage him

    I choose not to

  127. @ Wraparound

    Fair point and I respect your thoughts and decision.

    I am glad to see Slater KK in the lineup vs. Edm. Not happy with the Kunitz in for Perlini call, specifically for “speed” reasons. But the coaching staff may have info we are not privy to. Kunitz is at 996 NHL games played and they want to get him to 1000, it’s the classy way to handle it.

    Not thrilled Forsling is sitting out but there are 7 on D and all have been playing fairly well so its a numbers game.

  128. As we go along in the next few years, you will start to see that the GM’s are getting smarter. They will pull back on the NMC’s and the large contracts to players who are 28 years and over. The Blackhawk problems has opened the eyes of the GM’s.

    But what all this “hard cap” does is put pressure on teams to develop their young players, faster. That could also mean that teams become “impatient” and get rid of a young player before he hits his stride. That’s just too bad for some players who have been injury prone or just developed late.

    Let’s hope that our young players show promise and that our veterans carry the load for another 2 years.

  129. Agree Row A Forsling has played pretty well since coming back from injury and maybe doesn’t deserve to come out but they have to see what KK brings to the team – I’m cautiously optimistic

  130. You’d have to think that Marner signs something equivalent to Matthews – he is their best player after all

    Let’s say he gets $11 Million over 5 years making the Leafs top 3 paid players at close to $34 Million (just about $11 each)

    Toews and Kane had won 3 Cups before they started earning $10.5 M per – just saying

    This could be a year for the Leafs like for the Hawks in 2010 where they know the team won’t be back together in the same form ever again so they’ll be extra motivated

  131. Yes Marleau does have a nnc EB, just a speculation now, would be in summer after his bonus paid.
    Want to see KK also but as said too bad Forsling who had a cou0ke of good games sits.
    Only players who are ufa eligible can have a no move or a no trade clause in their contracts. Rfas and elcs aren’t allowed too under cba.

  132. Wrap – it depends where the Hawks pick in the first round. If the Hawks are in the top-5 or a player like Turcotte has slipped to where they can pick him – I don’t trade the pick for Kapanen, but otherwise I make that trade.

  133. 1.2 m ayear for 4 yrs. Noonan. Marleau it was said has said something about finishing his career back out west or something like that.

  134. Wrap, Row, really? Tallon drafted Kane, Toews, Crow, Keith, and Seabs. (we all know the 2009-2010 roster) He was part of the Staff, Director of player personnel, then GM for a decade while Bowman was in high school….Seriously, do you need Wikipedia? Look it up.
    Bowman drafted his players, some panned out some did not like every GM including Tallon, but to deny what he has done with trades, free agent signings, drafts, and to say he won the 3 cups is a very small minded. But, hey stay the course. Believe in your beliefs.
    Anyone see Carter Hart’s performance yesterday? When was he drafted Wrap?
    Any updates on 2nd rounder Knott and 3rd rounder Iacopelli?
    Beanpot was exciting yesterday. Farabee is Krieder type player! Impressive.
    Looking forward to Kunitz reaching 1000 games.
    91 19 88
    20 15 12
    Give AA some deserved 2nd line ice time with Saad and the Cat to get the Jets to bite.

  135. Wrap one thing to think about, may or may not cone into play. Kapanen is expansion draft eligible a draft pick next summer won’t be.

  136. @Hull65

    The person who needs to look things up is YOU. You wrongly say this:

    “Wrap, Row, really? Tallon drafted Kane, Toews, Crow, Keith, and Seabs. (we all know the 2009-2010 roster) He was part of the Staff, Director of player personnel, then GM for a decade while Bowman was in high school….Seriously, do you need Wikipedia? Look it up.”

    He did NOT draft Seabrook and Crawford, do you not comprehend? Those two players were drafted by Mike Smith, Tallon was a BROADCASTER when they were drafted.

    In addition, Bowman has been an employee of the Blackhawks since 2001, he worked many years in the same front office as Tallon. He (Bowman) graduated high school in 1991. You are wrong again.

    Don’t you get tired of being wrong and being corrected?

    I will be right here to counterpoint every one of your incorrect points.

    As for the Bowman three cups comment, keep going with your alternate reality as Wrap said. You are truly in another world. He retooled the team for the 2013 Cup and then the team won again in 2015. All while your GM buddy Tallon was down in Florida in the midst of his glorious 2 playoff appearances in eight years (and counting). You further incorrectly stated that Tallon “almost won the Stanley Cup” down there in Florida. In what alternative universe is being knocked out in the first round “almost winning the Stanley Cup”?

    Iacopelli, here is an update. He will not make it, got sent down to Indy yesterday. They will not resign him this summer. Wow what a tragedy, a 3rd round draft pick from five years ago that is not going to make it. BIG DEAL. You are the ONLY person who is crying about Iacopelli.

    Carter Hart: Obviously you cannot read, nor comprehend what you read. I spelled out in detail these facts, try to retain them this time: Hart was drafted by Philly in the same round the Blackhawks took Debrincat, who thus far is the best player taken in that round. What is it about this that YOU DO NOT GET? Speaking of small minded, you take the cake.

  137. Following up ER’s comment on B0qvist and Beaudin, a good organization does not rush very young players, especially d-men. They need a lot of learning to defend in their own end, while gaining weight and strength. Most likely, one will be brought up for 2020/21 and the other the following year. The good news is that we have a number of quality d-men coming up in the next few years.

    To those obsessed with trying to tweak the line-up at the TDL to make the playoffs, remember that half the teams make the playoffs. So what? As Noonan said, the Hawks led the league with 109 points and lost in the first round. This team is not ready for prime time. Here’s hoping that Stan takes a major step in getting the Hawks ready within a couple of seasons by making some smart moves (sell high) in the next few weeks for picks and prospects.

  138. If somehow we acquire Kapanen and he plays well enough to protect him – then he becomes one of the protected.

    Speaking of acquiring Kapanen and making it beneficial for Toronto to trade him to the Hawks – trade Keith ($1.5M retained so only $4M on Toronto’s cap) for Kapanen and Horton’s contract (1 more year at $5.3M).

    The $4M for Keith is offset by the $4M+ they would have spent on Kapanen plus they they don’t have to mess with the Horton LTIR stuff so they have more flexibility for other stuff.

    For the Hawks signing Kapanen for ~$5M is only a net of $1M more on their cap. That still leaves plenty of cap space to sign Ryan Dzingel.

    Trade Anisimov and don’t re-sign their UFA’s should provide enough cap space to sign free agent d-man Ben Chiarot.

    Kapanen-Toews-Kane
    DCat-Strome-1st round draft pick
    Saad-Dzingel-Kahun
    Caggiula-Kampf-Hayden/Kubalic

    Chiarot-Jokiharju
    Dahlstrom-Murphy
    Gustafsson-Mitchell/Seabrook

  139. Meant to write: …making some smart moves (sell high) in the next few weeks for picks, prospects, and freeing up cap space acquire veterans.

  140. @ Hull65

    Also this gem in reference to Tallon:

    “…then GM for a decade while Bowman was in high school…”

    BZZZZT, wrong. Tallon was GM from June 2005 to July 2009.

    In what alternative reality is FOUR years a DECADE?

    Give it up while you are way, way, way, way behind because you do not have the slightest clue what you’re talking about. Again.

  141. ER, those lines are why you do not sign 8-10m caphit elite FW and sign two mid 5m caphit players. Still would welcome one of those elites. We better sign two mids if not one elite. Those guys are for free and we still have a Calvary coming on top of that. Right now its anywhere between 3-15th pick for that many teams.

  142. ER – agree with your take on my hypothetical trading of Hawks 1st rounder for Kapanen

    If the Hawks did have a top 5 pick then no or even a chance at Turcotte but I guess I’m thinking the Hawks are going to end up in the 10 – 15 range for the draft and then I think I would trade that pick for Kappy

  143. Wrap, Am I to assume that the 10-15 pick you are speaking about would be after the lottery? 10-15 could equil top 3 pick.
    I doubt teams will line up to do Toronto any favours. To me a mid to high first round pick for Kapanen seem a little steep.
    If I’m the Hawks I keep their own first round pick and try to acquire a second first round pick. What is the point of picking up young guys just in time to pay them 5 million a year?
    Unless you are dumping an old guy making big bucks I don’t see the point…Or…
    Hawks should help Toronto out just like Carolina helped Chicago out.
    Teuvo plus big contract to Carolina for cap space.
    Kapanen plus big contract to Chicago for cap space.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *