Stan Bowman’s Love Affair with the 2013 NHL Draft

Stan Bowman has a tendency to fall in love with draft classes. Over the years we have watched him seem to collect players from specific years with limited success.

Nearly a year ago, we took a deep dive into an apparent love affair Bowman had with the 2012 NHL Draft. In addition to eight players selected by the Blackhawks that year, Chicago eventually added six more via trade or free agency.

With news that the Hawks have signed Madison Bowey on Thursday, a quick look back at 2013 shows that Bowman may have adjusted his gaze to that year’s draft.

Here are the players Chicago drafted in 2013:

  • 1 (30) – Ryan Hartman, F
  • 2 (51) – Carl Dahlstrom, D
  • 3 (74) – John Hayden, F
  • 4 (111) – Robin Norell, D
  • 4 (121) – Tyler Motte, F
  • 5 (134) – Luke Johnson, F
  • 6 (181) – Anthony Louis, F
  • 7 (211) – Robin Press, D

So, like 2012, the Blackhawks made eight selections in 2013. Hartman, Dahlstrom, Hayden, Motte and Johnson eventually saw some action with the Blackhawks; Motte is currently enjoying his time in Vancouver while the rest of the class has been less than spectacular.

Many of Bowman’s drafted classes over the past decade have left a lot to be desired.

However, there were a few good players in the 2013 draft class that the Blackhawks either didn’t get the chance to pick or passed on. And now it appears Bowman has kept an eye on the draft from eight years ago.

Bowey is only the latest player added from the 2013 class. Here are the players selected that year who have, at some point, become part of the Blackhawks organization.

  • 1 (16) – Colorado – Nikita Zadorov, D
  • 1 (27) – Winnipeg – Marko Dano, F
  • 2 (31) – Florida – Ian McCoshen , D
  • 2 (39) – Arizona – Laurent Dauphin, F
  • 2 (53) – Washington – Madison Bowey, D
  • 3 (80) – NY Rangers – Anthony Duclair, F
  • 7 (191) – Los Angeles – Dominik Kubalik, F

That makes seven more players from 2013 who have, at some point, been part of the Blackhawks’ organization. Between Chicago’s owned selections and acquisitions, seven players from the first two rounds of the 2013 draft have been part of the Hawks.

Of the 15 players from the 2013 NHL Draft who have, at some point, been part of the Blackhawks, only two – Zadorov and Kubalik – are on the NHL roster. And Bowey is the third who is still associated with the club in some way.

56 thoughts on “Stan Bowman’s Love Affair with the 2013 NHL Draft

  1. I think more than anything, Stan likes to look for reclamation projects. And I think he targets the top 2 rounds of previous drafts because he feels like the player selected must have had some attribute that stood out in order to be selected in the first or second round that year (whether it was skating speed, a strong shot, etc). I don’t mind the strategy as long as there isn’t an overpay..for instance, Rutta for Slater Koekkoek (a former first round pick) was a low risk trade that actually worked out fine. Koekkoek didn’t develop into a top four defenseman, but that’s ok. He was more than serviceable. On the other hand, a second round pick for David Rundblad (another former first round pick) was disastrous..

    Fortunately, the one benefit to rebuilding is that Stan is actually holding onto our draft picks and young players now..so Hawks fans shouldn’t have to worry about him moving out prospects (Teuvo, Danault, Motte) because he’s loading up for a cup run or trying to shed salary..we’ll actually be able to watch our young players develop instead of selling low on them.

  2. So not one of Bowman’s 7 picks in 2013 really amounted to anything anywhere.

    Yeah Motte is off to a strong this year, but so what?

    Took him 8 years to get to this is point.

    Yet another in a long string of evidence points that the Great and Powerful Oz has no idea how to build a winner.

    But he is damn good at inheriting and massaging one (See 2013).

  3. Not on topic, but is anyone watching the Detroit-Dallas game tonight? You should see the uniforms Dallas is wearing – Black trimmed with neon green. OMG! Highway road crews should wear them to be sure passing vehicles see them. MERCY!

  4. I hope this column isn’t a praise and pat on the head article for SB. He has not had a positive effect on the Blackhawks and we all know it. Should have been gone after last year’s debacle and we all know it. Oh, the 3 cups! Don’t want to hear the Bowman defense BS…we won those in spite of him. We need a new GM. Period.

  5. Next year this will be 2014? Perhaps this has much to do with teams tiring or otherwise unsuccessful attempts at developing players with roster & rights limits along with qualifying offers etc.

    Just look at the past as some are eager to see that third round pick for deHaan. Well, let’s see how he does what is he at game 47 as a Blackhawk. Maybe that third round pick will be a player in 2026

  6. Slayerforever nailed it: “I think more than anything, Stan likes to look for reclamation projects.”

    Stan Bowman has an obsession with underperforming 1st round picks. He probably has a yard full of Mercedes Benz with blown engines that he bought used – solely because they are Benzes. The problem is, he thinks he can fix them when no one else can.

    It tells me he cannot make an assessment beyond what is on paper.

    Furthermore, he won’t admit a mistake and is unwilling to fix it – Nylander is a prime example.

  7. Agreed John Galt.
    When not one of your top 7 picks really makes it, it shows you stink at your job.

    Not one.
    (Motte? After 8 years? Still question mark.)

  8. Hopefully Kubalik around for awhile scoring 30+ goals a year as solid top 6 winger and maybe Zadorov will become a fixture for a few years too.

  9. lol– best player of ALL these guys- was the Lowest pick of all- and NOT originally Stan’s pick

    More evidence that Stan is really below average!

  10. What so now Stan doesn’t get credit for stealing Kubalik from LA but criticized for not drafting him earlier

    What about all 30 other teams that passed on him before round 7 – proof that every GM in the league is below average!

    I’m no Stan apologist – he should be held to account but he has made good moves along with bad and the Kubalik move was a good one

  11. Making the statement “Stan is below average” (one of the nicer ways to say Stan sux) may be true – but do we really know that or is it simply the fashionable thing to say on Hawks message boards? For Stan’s job performance to be below average – that assessment needs to be quantified against the job performance of the other GM’s in the league. Simply checking down the list of the hundreds of things he’s done as the Hawks GM and finding the number of things you dislike is greater than the number of things you like is not the quantitative measure to use in order to assess his job performance relative to his peers. Additionally, moves a GM makes shouldn’t be assessed in isolation because there are countless moving parts and factors upstream before the move and downstream after the move.

    We sports fans are a myopic bunch of fanatics – we tend to view things through the prism of what is near and dear to us to the virtual exclusion of the rest of the league and I suspect other fan bases do the same. It would take more investigative time and effort that I’m capable of or willing to commit to to actually quantify every NHL GM’s job performance and compare Stan’s ranking among his peers – but that would be the fair thing to do before stating he is below average.

    Or … we could just be unthinking fans complaining about the GM because … well … it is the easy and fashionable thing to do.

  12. Ebonyrapotor, be careful for what you ask for. You might not like what you get.

    Bowman is next to last in NHL GM Power Rankings by NBC Sports. Read for yourself:

    https://nhl.nbcsports.com/2020/11/30/nhl-power-rankings-ranking-the-nhl-general-managers/

    From ESPN in 2018, Bowman is at the bottom as a ‘Vote of No Confidence’. Again, read for yourself.

    https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/22466150/nhl-weekly-reader-ranking-all-31-general-managers-tiers-ahead-trade-deadline

    Ironic that you imply that Bowman’s critic here live in an echo chamber when you have made to effort to look beyond it for yourself.

  13. So ebonyraptor, you own grocery store and your going judge your store mgrs performance based on how the guy running Safeway down street? Doubtful! I could careless how Wild GM is doing, my concern Stan has been at this for more than minute, really hasn’t learned from his mistakes, has his job performance improved? Stan took over ( stole ) team that was loaded, he rode that horse till it gave out. Sports is about what habe you done for me lately, this team has been bad 4-5 seasons now. Is this really the guy you want driving the bus? He should have been fired after first round loss to the preds. My guess is his daddy is only reason he’s still around. He has not been great at trades, not been great at drafting, been flat out terrible on evaluating and giving new contracts. He fired best coach team has ever had. It looked like Wirtz figured it out when he fired McDonough but he turned around and promoted Stan, guessing maybe Stan has some compromising pics of his boss? The ship is sinking and Stan needs go down with ship, Hawks are just plain terrible.

  14. Dawgman33, apples and oranges comparison. A more appropriate comparison with your grocery store example would be the owner of a grocery store chain comparing all of his managers against one another. But even then its not in any significant way applicable to managing a professional sports team given the different job requirements of an NHL GM and a grocery store manager.

    Having explained that, my post was a response to the statement Stan is below average. Inherent in that statement is the necessity of a quantitative measurement with which to rank Stan versus his peers. That is different than yours or my assessment of the things we like or dislike that Stan has done. You can hate on Stan but you can’t state he’s below average until you have quantitatively determined what “average” is and whether Stan is below or above that line.

    I see a lot of complaining about Stan but have not seen any comprehensive assessment to back up the complaints relative to other GMs.

  15. Ebonyrapotor, be careful for what you ask for. You might not like what you get.

    Bowman is next to last in NHL GM Power Rankings by NBC Sports. Google it yourself:

    From ESPN in 2018, Bowman is at the bottom as a ‘Vote of No Confidence’. Again, Google it for yourself.

    Ironic that you imply Bowman’s critics here live in an echo chamber when you have made no effort to look beyond it for yourself.

    It took me less than 4 minutes to find out what other professional hockey writers think about Bowman in comparison to others.

  16. I am not defending the Buckaroo/92 trade though getting Suter makes up/equal per say for 92 as being a good FW. Not that that helps the group of young wave D guys.

    Maybe he and crew were thinking have lots of small puck moving D guys lets trade one for a big physical in front of net D guy that we have none of without 27 4 7 32.

  17. Wrap, tahts the thing for every mistake/or miss on some draft picks or trade we should not have Bowman has got to make up/make equal with Bread Man Kempny Ruutta guy before 8/cant remember name Kubalik Suter. Now when looking at those players and caphits of how good they are were left with two good young ones with good area caphits.

    Two good players for young wave.

  18. Hawks are just plain terrible.

    That line is the very best thing for us because it gets us back to top 5 team with top draft picks. Which are extremely important to reload young wave core/depth.

    When you look at d=every top 5/10 team in the league when we were 2009-2016 and the top teams then which most suck now and the top 5/10 teams now. Whats the same thing amounst all of them they started with top 5/10 picks players and got a wave. Then added ufas and whalla its a cycle.

    The omnly thing you donot want is to suck and get lots of top paicks and still go nowhere like EDM/TOR/other.

    We have the wave mentality. Those yrs we drafted/traded players we were on top and wernt allowed to keep too much at once. So bad moves because we were forced. Now we can add and make good moves again like 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012.

    That 27/Oduya trade was fantastic. Thats the kind of stuff I fully expect once were getting good again. When were not good those trade like 65/other donot look good. When were good again those trades like 27 are fantastic.

    Timing.

  19. make up/make equal with Bread Man Kempny Ruutta guy before 8/cant remember name Kubalik Suter.

    make up/make equal with Bread Man Kempny Ruutta Kahun Kubalik Suter.

  20. Looks like Lank gets the start again – I like it – he’s passed every test so far – keep it going

  21. John Galt- appreciate the “stan” assist/facts/links

    I realize GM- is tough job. And Only one team can win SC each year- so lot’s of “losers”.

    But- Most of the SC teams- really not a Product of Stan
    And I give more credit to the scouting system and Hawks “Brand” for landing some excellent Euro talent. Not Stan.

  22. DIdnr draft every players/moves though Bowman is only GM to accomplish a dynasty. A couple teams won twice LA PIT and they didnt deserve to/only once and a team that won once BOS prob deserved to win twice. Point is thsoe are the top teams after CHI in salary cap era.

    Bowman managed roster better then any GM in league to do that. No other GM did it. So maybe not best load roster GM like Tallon but a way better manager once you have the horses.

    Right now we need load. Then though we need manage.

  23. According to young Tab, the purveyor of this blog, Stan Bowman is doing C minus work.

    He wrote that a couple months back,

    So let’s ask the question using the previous grocery store example:

    If your store manager gets a C minus review after he inherited the store that was doing A plus in sales, but has steadily decreased over the last 5 years, do you keep him?

    This is not a tough question that requires paragraphs of babble speak, ladies band gentleman.

    A one word answer is all this question requires.

    Paragraph answers pettifog the issue, and prove you choose not to answer directly.

  24. Trying to minimize the babble talk – your store manager getting C minus review is only relevant if the other store managers are going better than C minus work or if the market changed in one location – like a superstore opening up across the street undercutting prices. There’s more to the story in the grocery store manager example than you want to acknowledge. And again, a grocery store manager’s job is not the same as a NHL GM – as an example, the grocery store manager doesn’t draft or trade employees with competing grocery stores managers. It’s a ridiculous and meaningless comparison.

    I have no feelings one way or the other for Stan. He’s the Hawks GM so I want him to succeed. If he gets fired today it won’t matter in the least to me and I’ll want the new GM to succeed the same as I did with Stan. The only thing I’m wishing for is the Hawks rebuild the team and get back to be a legitimate Stanley Cup contender. Period. Whether Stan is at the helm or Joe Blow I couldn’t care less so long as they do the job that is required.

    The only reason I am seen as a Stan apologist is it is clear to me the totality of his job performance is not looked at thoroughly enough – the moves people don’t like are given more weight than the moves they like which is in keeping with the inherent intellectual laziness of humans, but it’s still unfair.

    Oh yeah, using ESPN for their hockey acumen – not a good look.

  25. All I know is the store manager better have grade A/top notch premium Peruvian coffee beans or else.

  26. You pettifoggers the issue,
    Ebony.

    How a simple yes or no question requires paragraphs for an answer is the stuff of DC politics.

    To paraphrase a current leader:
    C’mon Man!

  27. You pettifogged the issue,
    Ebony.

    How a simple yes or no question requires paragraphs for an answer is the stuff of DC politics.

    To paraphrase a current leader:
    C’mon Man!

  28. I don’t give a simple yes/no answer to a question that can’t adequately be answered with a simple yes/no. How does that make things foggy?

  29. Stepping out of the fog and into a different topic – what the hell is going on with these standing points the Hawks are getting? Did they not get the memo we want to be competing for the bottom of the division – not the top of it? Thank goodness Toews and Dach aren’t playing or we could really be screwing up our chances for a top-5 draft pick.

    I guess the “good” news is the PP can’t continue to be as good as it has been – so we got that going for us, which is nice. With the 0-for last game the PP% dropped into the 30’s so that’s heading in the right direction.

    There is still the cause of concern with the goaltending we’re getting lately. After getting drubbed for 20 goals against in the first 4 games, the tending has been outstanding – too outstanding for my liking. Again – draft position fellas, draft position.

    Obviously the players have to play to win and I wouldn’t want it any other way – I’m just surprised they’re having more team success than I thought they would.

  30. Dont worry EB, the Hawks position in the standings isn’t as robust as you imply. They are artificially higher because Dallas, Carolina, and some others have played so few games. If all the games played were even, we would be second from the bottom.

    As the season progresses, the Hawks will find their level, and so will the others. It is actually a good thing the goaltending has been so good and maybe helping us to a few more points. It might be one less problem to solve when we want to be good again, hopefully next year.

  31. Eb,
    You speak like a defense Atty.

    Simple question…….. but not a simple answer from the esquire…..

    Holy crap. Talk about the layers of grey to a black and white question?

    No wonder there are 50 shades of the damn color when we see answers like the one you just gave.

    Comparing bad work to other bad work?
    C minus to C minus?

    Ever hear the phrase:
    ‘You don’t justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior?’

    You did just that.

    Checkmate.

  32. ER, yea were undefreated in 5 games/2-0-3 and Lankenin is 2-0-2 though want him to do good not better then 15-15 and other goalie 5-15 otherwise yea that could be a problem.

    I mean without 20 50 77 19 and a couple corona players and with 3 AHL goalies if were not bottom 5 record then were screwed.

    So having how many? back to back games should help get other goalies in there more then normal that should help.

    What doesnt help in DET in the division that alone might give OTT 8 more loses and CHI 8 more wins as they are the two worst teams in league.

    Right now were looking good/ok for 3 spot before ping pong balls.

  33. PP – my foggy reference was meant to be funny – although there’s a bit of truth to it.

    Let’s reset the goalposts back to where this discussion started. It started with the statement that Stan is “below average”. That statement does address whether or not Stan’s job performance is good or bad – it only addresses where Stan’s job performance ranks relative to other GMs – either below, at, or above the average GM job performance. My point for starting this kerfuffle is to point out the statement was made without the necessary investigation to prove the statement is true.

    If the league was filled with poor performing GMs, a poor performing GM could be above average relative to his peers. Likewise, if the league was filled with good performing GMs, a good performing GM could be below average relatively to his peers. There are fans of other NHL teams who can make the same “below average” statement about their GM and taken on face value would mean all GMs are below average – a mathematical impossibility.

    Throwing Stan under the bus is done too often without thought going any deeper than whatever it was he did you didn’t agree with – and it is almost way more complex than that. Many Hawks fans think Stan is a bad GM – fine, I get that. But what most fans complaining about Stan haven’t done is study the job performance of the other GMs against whom Stan is held up against and found wanting. There’s a lot of “grass is always greener on the other side” going on here.

  34. Eb,
    It was a yes or no question.

    Simple.

    The problem is when argumentive voices choose to complicate it.

    3 paragraphs again, man?

    Really?

    Like it has been said You do not, repeat, do not, justify bad behavior by pointing to other had behavior.

    Screw the other GMs performance man.

    If they suck, it is on their upper mgmt to do something….and that something is not to compare to how crappy other GMs are doing.

    Sheesh man.
    That is a weak dick argument showing you have no argument….and you are not a weak dick guy, void of lucidity

    Wise up.

  35. PP, maybe you should restate the question to be sure we’re talking about the same question, and then post your yes/no answer.

  36. Eb
    In a nutshell,

    You own a grocery store and your store manager got a C minus review after the store has seen sales drop from A plus performance steadily over the last 5 years under his guidance.

    Do you keep him?

    My answer?
    No .

    Simple. …..and I did not need multiple paragraphs.

  37. PP, so your reason for firing him is sudden drop in sales – no other circumstances are taken under consideration … like the circumstance that a Walmart opened up across the street from your grocery store and siphoned off tons of business. Seems pretty shortsighted to me. Look at that – 1 paragraph.

  38. Not sudden drop Eb.
    5 years, count em, 5 years of decline to a bottom tier.
    And your work had been below average during this period?

    You just retired.
    Surely you know performance was everything.
    No if, ands, buts.

    So yes. Time for C minus manager to go.

    Hey congrats, BTW.
    Enjoy and stay busy and healthy.

  39. PP, thanks for the well wishes.

    I think we may have discovered the difference in viewpoint – the difference was you meant one thing and I interpreted it a different way.

    Specifically – “from A plus performance steadily over the last 5 years” – you meant there was a steady decline over the past 5 years, whereas I interpreted that to mean that there was a steady A plus performance for 5 years, which suddenly dropped in the last year.

    Sorry for exceeding the allowable paragraph threshold – but even now that I understand the question correctly – before firing the manager, I would do the due diligence of understanding what happened and why it happened and whether or not is was entirely the manager’s fault. If it was entirely the manager’s fault – then I would agree firing him is the correct move. If it was only partially the manager’s fault – then I would weigh the extenuating circumstances and make my decision.

    And, that’s the point, both in this grocery store manager and Stan as GM of the Hawks – extenuating circumstances. Those are real and have a significant impact on a manager’s job performance.

  40. Misunderstanding now understood.

    You were confusing the hell outta me with your reasonings.

    Of course everything has extenuating circumstances.

    In this case, Bowman has made way too many mistakes beginning in 2016 and carrying into present day.

    The product on the ice shows it.

    That is why if I was store owner, I would thank him for managing my store and send him packing.

    We do not need another Glen Sather.
    Look what that guy did to the NYR for two decades.

  41. But it didn’t start in 2016 because in 2016, 2017 and 2018 they were trying to get one more run at the Cup with the old core – the old before the T&K window closed. His modus operandi during those years was different than it has been for the last couple years when they are no longer trying to squeeze one more Cup run. Additionally, it may not have been Stan making that organizational call to supplement 19/88/2/7/50 as best the salary cap would allow.

    So essentially there was a reset button pushed and Stan is now in control of the rebuild, and from my perspective the on ice product is reflective the rebuild is in progress and the proof will be in the pudding in the next couple seasons. So far, without Toews, Dach and Nylander, the on ice product is showing positive signs of improvement. I think Stan’s job performance should be judged at the end of the 2021/22 season.

  42. Eb,
    Bowman’s bad trades to chase a Cup in 2016 hurt.

    He traded Saad for Anisimov and promptly overpaid Anisimov.

    He also needed defense that year cuz Oduya left, and they had no #6 defense man.

    He fixed that by trading Daneault for two washed up forwards. (Weisz and Fleischman).
    They lost first round.
    Game 7 bad turnover by rookie defenseman late in 3rd period.
    (So much for addressing the thing you needed to chase a Cup, eh?)

    The next year 2017, he fixed that defense with a used up Brian Campbell and a 2 year older Oduya who retired the next year in Ottawa.

    Result: swept by a quicker Nashville, 1st round.

    He then panicked, sent Panarin packing and traded his best penality killing, shot blocking defenseman for Connor Murphy…
    He also failed to provide a good backup goalie to Crawford when Scott Darling left.

    That mistake glared when Crawford got hurt that year, didn’t it?

    Result: Missed playoffs.

    The next year, 2018, he fired Quennville……and on and on….since.

    Down the dumper the team has gone.

    So I believe I am correct when I say 5 years

    My points of fact above substantiate that.

  43. Your facts are cherry picked, You site the worst moves and ignore the good moves. Plus you ignore extenuating circumstances such as Q wanted veteran hard to play against forwards rather than the inexperienced Danault, Another thing you ignore is salary cap management which is a huge part of a GMs job,

    So you can list lots of moves you think proves Stan deserves to be fired but there’s more to the picture than you’re using in that assessment.

  44. All about the end game Eb.
    And the end game is a decline in the team.

    Nobody wants to hear why you failed.
    The end game is you failed.

    But fair is fair. You state I cherry picked the bad moves and ignored the good moves in 2016 and 2017….
    OK.
    Please name them and tell me the end result…,

    And remember…game 7, first round, 2016.
    The Hawks defense was so stacked with talent, courtesy of Bowman, they had to dress David Rundblad and rookie Gustafson.

  45. Also remember, Bowman got fleeced into giving away Teravainen in order to dump a Bickell contract he himself offered and inked.

  46. Just for an opener – he convinced Panarin to sign with the Hawks,

    But again, back in 2016 and 2017, Stan was under indict to try to win another cup with the old core group while trying to do so within the salary cap when 2 of the players accounted for 30% of the cap.

    But that was then – this is a new day. The reset button was pushed and we focus on a rebuild rather than a repeat. Big difference and judging Stan based on what happened in 2016 and 2017 when he was in essence a marionette dancing on McD’s strings has little to no bearing on that is happening now and over the next couple years.

  47. End game Eb.
    I just proved he failed at the end game.

    Still waiting for those great moves in 2016-18 and their end result from you to prove your point.

    I just named a cluster of dumpster fire moves that say the opposite.

    You don’t buy that McDonough conspiracy stuff, do you?.

    C’mon man.
    Conjecture and accusation with no proof.

    And do you really think Scotty Bowman, the brains of the outfit, with Cups up the wazoo, would allow his kid to get pushed around a marketing guy?

    Really?

  48. The 2016-2018 seasons weren’t Stan’s game – they were McD’s game and he was fired for the end result.

    Stan’s game started last season and the end results won’t be visible for a couple years.

    You can choose to view is as a Stan continuum from 2016 on but I don’t think that’s totally true – I think Stan’s hands were tied to a large extent by his boss – McD. Therefore I don’t put the 2016-2018 seasons on Stan because he wasn’t the final decision maker on everything Stan is blamed for. Q also had more sway in decisions and should catch some of the heat dumped on Stan.

    Stan haters have staked out their position by citing a bunch of prove that doesn’t go deeper than what can be seen on the surface. There’s a lot more going on behind the scenes and under the surface but since that’s difficult and tedious to research thoroughly – it simply isn’t and the judgement is rendered guilty based solely on incomplete facts.

  49. Like I said Eb:
    No flippin’ way a guy like Scotty Bowman with 11 or so Cups, allows his kid to be told how to manage a hockey team by a marketing guy…….

    If you believe that, there is a glitzy town in the Nevada desert calling your name.

    A wise man once said,
    The conservative will believe it when they see it.
    The liberal will see it when they believe it.

    Facts are facts Eb.
    Nothing incomplete here on Bowman, unless you choose to believe it.
    (See above statement.)

    They are there on paper for all to see.

    And the fact that you still have not provided the successes you state I ignored, blows your argument out if water, high into the sky.

    For your consideration: back in 2016, I supported Bowman for his decisions cuz the then recent history yielded much success.

    Others said these decisions are gonna hurt the future.

    Fast forward to now:
    Turns out they were right back then. I was wrong.

  50. In fact,
    I can remember one guy, who posts here regularly, saying Anton Forsberg was a terrible replacement for Darling (Forsberg came over in the Panarin trade).

    Back then I trusted Bowman.

    I was wrong and history proved it.

  51. First, I admit I have some Pollyanna in me that at times can be seen as overly optimistic, but I’m about as far away from being a liberal as you can get.

    There’s a reason why you chose to start with the 2016 season – because if you started back when Stan became GM you would have to acknowledge the end results were quite good. All teams have a limited shelf life and the 2/4/7/19/81/88/50 core group had theirs. And then it was over. It was inevitable, especially because of the impact of the salary cap era.

    Let’s set the record straight – Rocky hired McD to market the team and make them relevant again, which because of a confluence of events he was able to do – those being the drafting of T&K, the free agent signing of Hossa, the maturation of Keith, Seabrook and then Hjalmarsson and then installing a top tier bench coach to herd the cats and make a team out of them. McD’s success was directly tied to the product on the ice – if they weren’t the toast of the town/league, T&K wouldn’t have been on you TV screens hawking Chevy’s.

    You can dismiss the notion that McD held all the power under Rocky but you would be wrong and regardless what Scotty may have wanted done in the organization – it was McD making tons of money for Rocky that stirred the drink. McD’s mantra was the show must go on so he directed Stan to do just that and future considerations took a back seat in the attempt to keep the good times rolling.

    If you want to blame Stan for being McD’s flunky – I’m 100% with you. But he did what the organization wanted done until it became painfully obvious to Rocky that the show was over and McD’s insistence to stay the course was no longer tenable – so McD was fired and the reset button was pressed.

    That’s what I believed happened. You obviously believe differently. And the world goes round. :=)

  52. Eb,
    You are foolish if you think McD had more to say about what was in the ice than Scotty Bowman, who guided his kid thru the early 2010’s..

    As stated clearly earlier, I supported Stan Bowman back then, into 2018.
    That should answer you wondering why I begin at 2016.

    The Wirtz family made fortunes seizing Lake Shore Drive real estate during the Depression.

    They also get a portion of each and every drop of liquor that comes into Cook County. Yeah, that’s right. Each and every drop……..

    Dollar Bill bought local politicians on that last one to get it passed.

    You can look up both points. You will see I am dead on balls right.

    So those points blow your McD bringing money into the picture out of the water….. again.

    So what is your next argument?
    I have disproved each and every one so far, with points of fact.

    Lastly, Dale Talon, not Bowman drafted T and K.

    Dale Talon not Bowman, signed Hossa and Koepechy (sp?)

    Dale Talon not Bowman, traded for Patrick Sharp.

    Dale Talon not Bowman, drafted 2 and 7.

    Dale Talon not Bowman, drafted Hjarms.

    Dale Talon not Bowman, traded for Versteeg.

    Still I supported Bowman cuz he massaged a salary cap well to the tune of 3 Cups, 6 years.

    But he has failed at building a winner since 2016, as clearly proven in previous dumpster fire posts….point by point by point.

    So again….. checkmate.
    Or in familiar hockey parlance…you just got beat 2-0 in overtime.

  53. Might be 2-1 if you ever produce those 2016-2018 successes and their end results you say I ignored.

    See ya on the next thread…….PP out!

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