Blackhawks Acquire Zack Smith
The question of how – or if – Artem Anisimov fit on the 2019-20 Blackhawks roster has been answered.
On Tuesday afternoon the Blackhawks announced the team has traded Anisimov to Ottawa for forward Zack Smith.
Smith, 31, had nine goals and 19 assists in 70 games with the Senators last year. His contract has an AAV of $3.25M and runs through the 2020-21 season.
Smith is a left-handed shot listed at 6-2 and 208 pounds. He was credited with 136 hits, 27 blocked shots and 42 takeaways. He also won 49.1 percent of 820 faceoffs last year. Smith averaged 16:21 on the ice, 1:49 of which was short-handed.
Let see what will hapen next..
Zack Smith ….?
Have no clue if its a good trade .??
Can he kill penalties successfully? Has he been on Ottawa PK?
He has a better offensive skill set than Kampf. Kampf is 1000% not a third line center, and to be an effective 4th line center he’s going to have to kill penalties a hell of a lot better than what we saw last year.
Lot of competition for bottom six forward slots compared to the empty cupboard Q was saddled w last year. Speaking of, Martinsen signed w Anaheim, Bob Murray back on the bottle again.
See him play multiple times !!!
Great PK guy… Bring caracter and leadership, a team player, block shot. Good on forecheck
Great News… A perfect Botton 6 player
Some grit will be provided, but more of a 4th line guy/penalty killer anymore. Character!
Surprise it runs through 2 years. Must of been hard to get rid of the AA contract.
Pk guy take big fos pkay wing 3rd line good pickup
Good call Craig
Theres your Burr Eags Frozal we were talking about the other day. We need guys like this. 64 doesnt have to take faceoffs now.
Bottom 6 looking stout with another good role player.
Craig – you da man … or, your guy is da man.
Would have liked to have gotten a little more than $1.3M in cap relief but I like Smith and think he will make the team better from a grit and PK perspective.
Happy to not have the sword of Anisimov hanging over us anymore and to get the inevitable behind us.
Still doesn’t alliw alot of wiggle room if Perlini gets 2m range. Good chance he is still moved. Smith with 3.25m caphit makes next summer alot more interesting
A slightly more productive version of Andrew Desjardins at 3X the cost.
Thanks Ian and ER,
Cap relief for sure.
From ESPN:
Follow the money on this Artem Anisimov trade by the Chicago Blackhawks. They shed his $4.55 million cap hit through 2021 by shipping Anisimov, 31, to the Ottawa Senators, a deal made possible by his trade protection lapsing after July 1. The Senators only pay him $2 million this season, after the Blackhawks paid his $2 million signing bonus for 2019-20, and $3 million next season. Zach Smith, the 31-year-old winger the Blackhawks acquired in the deal, has a $3.25 million AAV and is owed $6.5 million for the next two seasons. The Senators get a larger cap hit and save $1.5 million in real dollars. A very Ottawa move.
Definitely a one year roster. Toews, Kane, Saad, Shaw and Smith 34.15m. The defense 26.5 to 27m if Gus not extended. Debrincat and Strome 12 to 14 m. 7 to 8m for goalies and still 7 spits to fill. Be alot of changes.
Good point Tab
Would Edmonton do a Perlini and Dahlstrom for Puljujarvi?
I think the Defensemen we added arnt staying long, at least not all of them. I wouldnt get scared of the yrs on contracts. Crow stays could be around 2m. Lots of difference ways to do what we need. And were adding young wave players, which everyone of them will be elc caphits.
We good.
ER, what lines you got. Talk about having fun after two transition yrs, that brought us a top 3 franchise player.
82 19 88
12 17 92
20 65 77
91 15 40
64
Best to Artem!
You wore the Indian head very proudly, my friend.
Steady as she goes, sir, you are a class player!
If getting Smith means an improved PK (along with other acquisitions both FW and D) and it should then it’s a good move – this puts the pressure on Kampf IMO because Smith seems like a great 4th liner along with Cages and Carpenter
Maybe he plays some 3rd line depending on whether players like Dach, Nylander and Kubalik make the roster or not
And the Hawks got a little harder to play against – also a good thing
Also I’m thinking he’s a better and father skater than AA
Guess you call this a hockey trade. Smith was put on waivers last September and was unclaimed by any team.
Smith career CF%: 49.1
Anisimov career CF: 49.9
Smith averages a point every 3 games while AA averages a point every 2 games. Smith played on a vastly inferior team.
Lol
This is great.
Smith has a summer place at the Sask river near my Aunt.
No more Russians. Extra bonus.
Another crap move by bowman. No cap space! And adds another average player to log jam our young forwards
Smith is not going to prevent Dach or Nylander (if that’s who you are referring to) from making the team
I think that the puzzle is taking shape- you really have to have a list of all current & future players in the left hand column, and the next 5-8 seasons across the top and I think we will see that the 28-33 year olds will be hashed out as the 19-24 year olds gain traction in the NHL…. it would be great to see the “master” plan but let’s all hope that there IS one!!
Wonder how inspired AA will be going to a team you just know was on his no trade list before July 1st.
Arty prob played on better teams his whole career. One yr with OTT last yr vs. two yrs with Bread Man and Kaner can blow up % s.
Arty is better at OFF.
Smith is better at DEF and a little faster and 50% faceoffs.
This isnt against what your saying Original, I think trades do not have to be equal in any one trade, just use whatever trade pieces we have to get what we need or want.
We win some and not some, we get the roster loaded again. I do not care how or who we do it.
Arty prob wishes it was a Olympics yr now. I would have like to see him go to NYR but then we wouldnt have a good PK player and a hard player and hitter.
Good luck to Arty. Although loathed by some, I always liked his game. He’s a slower guy, but he went to the fricking net when a lot of others wouldn’t. Needed some cap relief so I can understand. As I’ve said before, more competition, so that’s not a bad thing. Radio report was that Smith was above 50% on FO’s. Don’t see that in the stats Tab posted.
I always noticed how Arty was last guy in the line as the team went off the ice after a win. He and Toews seemed to have a good relationship. Hopefully this guy is a good team guy, which he should be as someone who’s worn the “A”.
Go Blackhawks!!!!
@Big – the stat I saw was that Smith 50.9% or something like that for his career FOs
Last year I think he was 49.7% or so
What could we get in a trade for Bowman? It’s obvious he knows he skating on dull blades…As Dan Jiggets used to say, don’t confuse activity with accomplishment!
One thing i loved, old school when playing man to man, was keenan put deny as spy, told them zone and dont lose your position, deny can out skate anyone on the ice, if he comes w speed he can cross ice and cover him, back skate, just hold your position…
Not that anyone suks…(they skate way better than me) …but why not hire dennis savard as skating coach?, this dude was the best ive ever seen this side of guy lefleur, ,or peggy flamming
Flammming, and invented ‘spin o ramma’
Soupys not Savy but hes there teaching the young Defensemen things tips.
Of Smith,Kampf and Carpenter, Carpenter has played mostly at wing so his fo% is not likely against the better fo guys. Whereas Kampf and Smiths will be, so they are the more likely to get more time at center.
22 is a right shot to.
64 play center
15 plays center lw
Craig – you oughta start charging for the inside info!
Keep in mind that Marc Crawford was interim coach in Ottawa last year and apparently had great things to say about Smith. This seems like a straightforward deal – save a few cap dollars, improve P.K. and add some sandpaper to the bottom six. Regarding Perlini I can’t see paying him $2m. He doesn’t have much leverage so I would wait him out (assuming JC even wants him).
Yea when we trade caphits are what they are. When we sign resign players it should be fair amount for like rfa not ufa overpay fair amounts. What they should get in rfa status.
Being good at something and being good a teaching that same skill are not the same thing at all. Savvy was a natural…no gauantees he could teach others to do what he did.
If Dach makes the team:
Nylander-Toews-Kane
DCat-Strome-Kubalik
Saad-Dach-Shaw
Caggiula-Kampf-Smith/Carpenter
@ER – and if Perlini signs (I think he will) then he’s likely the 14th FW – Sikura starts in RKF
That would be an exciting team – Nylander, Dach and Kubalik are all big ifs and probably not at all 3 are going to pan out as hoped at least not this year (maybe in subsequent years)
Still it’s exciting that the future may be arriving as soon as October and if not likely in full force the following
…and let’s not forget about Boqvist – he could also be the opening roster if de Haan is on LTIR
Ok sign Perlini now. Scary to hear Bowman talk about Zach Smith (on waivers last season) as a possible 3rd line center. He is a 4th line left winger.
Perlini Toews Kane
Saad Dach Nylander
Dcat Strome Shaw
Smith Carpenter Caggiula
Keith Gus
Da Haan Seabs
Maatta Boqvust
We said a yr ago, were deep in 2 yrs. Were going to be very deep and good starting 21 season. We ll be good this yr, just think were even better with more of the young wave.
sweaters from juniors college levels
40 Lehner, Carpenter bes classy and says
22 Carptenter
15 Smith
92 Nylander
82? Kubalik
What I like about anybodys lines is we deep and versatile, by having that many match up options.
Hull, strong lines again. I like the 12 17 65 for a line. Shawzer brings pop to the line, more pace.
You think Kubalik with being shooter he could be good with them but we need someone to be good with 19 88. Kubalik is a top 9 player. He puts puck in the net I think he on one of those lines.
ER, I am liking 82 with 20 77 82 if he can cycle good enough.
I mean whos better for Kubalik 19 88 or 20 77?
Arty was classy and I liked him, just more when Bread Man and him were here together. Thats where he was an ideal 2nd line center, like Hands was. With the right linemates.
We all have good ideas, i really like ms take on this one…
And if it were me
Kub toews kane
Dcat strome shaw
Saad smith nyland
Cagg carp kamph
Youve got grit and d forward on every line
Speed and two centers on 4th, smith is rough, nyland is a ? Dach may even get a go from what ive seen..no way kamph makes center, but the guy has break speed, but then again so did sikura and kahun and we need pain in thise corners…
I just dont see it in perlini, not for more than 1 at best or package him and dahlstrom for a pick…we got younger, hungry young prospects that would beg for a 13 forward cup of coffee..if he thinks he’s all that…show me…
Perlini, league min, two way at 25o ahl…let em have em or package him now with that chump dahlstrom, krys is already way better and is 4th in line..did anyone see this fkrs moves?and we’re not yet at training camp, krys and mitch…dahlstrom, and sooo glad they dumped forsling…we can do better back end too…fk perlini
Just sayin, watch this guy krys in development camp, and we’ll see in training or at least at prospect invite…
I seem to like players that have a mean steak…
Folks, I want Nylander to be a find as much as you but isn’t it is a little soon to pencil him in to start? In three years he hasn’t shown much. Lots to work on. Probably in RFD for a while.
Like Bobcat, have been hoping to package Perlini with Dahl. A medium to high 3rd rounder is probably the best you’re going to get. Make room for our young talent.
Perhaps the hardest thing for a GM to achieve these days is to get an opposing GM to take a bad contract. There a bunch of examples.
Toronto gave up their 2020 first round pick, just to wipe Patrick Marleaus final year off the books last month. As we all know, Stan lost A 75 point forward in Teuvo to rid the albatross contract of Bickell.
Anisimov is a class act, but the Hawks could no longer pay a 3rd line Center who is not a superb penalty killer $4.5 Million for two more years. The rest of the league knew that. To save $1.3 Million per year and get a serviceable penalty killer and character locker room guy in Zack Smith is decent.
Once again, Colliton was already on the phone with Zack Smith talking to him about what his role will be. Much like Lehner. Listening to these guys talk, there is complete “buy in” by these new players to being a Hawk. Should be great for team chemistry, especially when you add Shaw to that mix, as well as Carpenter.
In so saying my bro EY, couldnt, (although we’ve been looking at smith 2 years now)..couldnt we have done better on a package with perlini, delia (they need a goal tender) for for kyle connor and and maybe a 3rd for 5th…and then deal aa for smith straight up of ottawa as well?..and ps..dump delia, perlini, and dahls cap before we have to send them back on waivers..and pss…fk perlini for thinking he’s worth a million dollar ferrari…get the f outta heeear..
Im sorry, but if you’re a top 20 pick for the fkng nhl, these days, and dont do everything to thank those that got you here, you dont deserve it, your lazy, or your’re getting high on new found wealth…
Craig – Good points.
I believe this is a good move – Anisimov *was* good with Kane and Panarin – without, not so much. The Hawks get a $1.3 mil. cap plus and a pretty good PK guy. Overall, Stan B. has upgraded to depth and addressed the PK, which sucked. I choose to be “half-FULL” looking forward.
Ps..ebony, sorry about my grammer and spelling ;)
Yeps..totaly agree diky, craig, morri and ey…though..(it were me)..
Would realllly like to make a steal on this kyle connor kid though…he’s up and we have assets they would find attractive,
Ps…assets we are’nt going to protect in expansion..so dump them before you must for nothing…
That there was lession 101 G.M. from 2010 and 2013 cup run…we over extended our wealth, LA. same, Boston, same, Deeetro…(sorry its hard to say that word without urge to…) but St. Lou did it just this year, (Pat maroon is their biggest unsure), Pitt did it, Montreal did it many x in a row, not just today, not just yesterday, and tommorow is everday on the field…so today then… is ours-g.s.patton
Big cat, 64 only plays center I think so I think Carpenter is RW and hes right hand shot.
Nylander, yea if hes ready more like 2nd 40 games and maybe prob same for 77. So we might have those 4 checking players in to start.
Ian, can 77 play 9 games in first 20 games and then go to juniors until that season then be back for playoffs ahl and nhl. Then 77 and 92 could get 9 games each in first 20 games then go from there.
Dach can’t play in the AHL in 2019/20 because he won’t be 20 by December 31, 2019 and because he doesn’t have 4 seasons in the CHL/WHL.
I’m not sure whether he would be eligible to play in the AHL in the 2020/21 season because he still won’t be 20 by December 31 of 2020 (he turns 20 on January 21, 2021) – but he may be eligible based on having played 4 seasons in the CHL/WHL – it depends on whether 19 games played in the 2016/17 season can be counted as “1 season” in the CHL/WHL.
BC, grammatical competence not required, phonics encouraged and malaprops accepted. We aim to play nice here. Wouldn’t you agree?
Mo, to what you asked the Blackhawks signed Philip Kurashev over the winter who was too young to play in Ahl last season. After his team was eliminated early he played 3 games for Rfd before their season ended and could though but unlikely return to juniors for another season still.
The 2nd part is because he is a signed prospect and not eligible to be on Rfd roster at tdl he isn’t eligible for their playoff roster. Only unsigned prospects on an ato can qualify outside that window. Also Dach is not eligible for Ahl because of Chl agreement to play full year in rfd the following season either.
EB once their junior season ends the Chl agreement doesn’t prevent a prospect from playing with his affliates or Nhl teams, unlike Ncaa.
I’m with you Wrap. Nylander, Dach and Kubalik are big question marks. If none of them pan out this year the Hawks will have serious problems. I’d be thrilled if two of the three are really good. Also hoping Strome’s season wasn’t a one off and he continues playing well.
In the end it will come down to system and chemistry. Look what Vegas was able to do. Played as a team and went far.
Kubalik maybe a Kahun in he plays one year and moves on. Being an rfa who can go to arbitration, might be more than can Bowman can sign. Cagguila in same boat but Bowman liked him coming out of University and tried to sign him, so of the 2 if one us kept would think its Cagguila. Posssibly lower resign too.
Nylander may be more important next year in filling Kubalik void on a cheap contract than he this season, with a year or part of one anyways in Rfd.
Ian, that applies for AHL too? I didn’t know that. Thanks for clarifying.
The special teams and D are being shored up. At least #15 is now available. What? Too soon?
“Colliton was already on the phone talking with Zack Smith about what his role will be.”
I know this would happen all of the time and I’m not so sure that I agree with it.
So much for actually having to make the team. You get a player like a Zack Smith who has played in the NHL who is automatically given a spot? Why?
Please don’t tell me Marc Crawford…lol
Hopefully another forward that can play up top on the PK, be great to give 19 some relief.
It would be good if we kept a Kenpny Rutta Kahun Kabalik more then a yr. These guys do not grow on trees, or do they. Kubalik looks good so lets keep him for yrs. I know about salary cap stuff but until we have enough drafted or trade drafted players that are good and stay longterm, lets at least keep Kubalik if hes that good.
It does make sense Kubalik this yr until Nylander is ready and is good to. When it comes to the 4th line checking players, yea 1 m caphit is better then 2 or 3. For when we have to.
You know, something else I’ve been wondering about is Versteeg. I know the intention is for him to play with Rockford, but is he worse than Carpenter/Smith/other bottom 6 forwards with less experience and hawks chemistry? Does he factor in to the bottom 6 in any way?
Seems highly unlikely Versteeg would make the team out of camp but maybe a call up if he performs well in RKF
Stape, re: conversation between Smith and Colliton. That’s a standard discussion and it’s Ok if they’re assuming a roster spot for Smith. He still needs to keep the spot….big difference.
I agree with Ray Haz. Trade Bowman. He has traded or let go half of the team from last yr, so he must believe they were no good, yet blames Q and fires him. Rather have Q then Bowman any day.
Has everyone forgotten Alexi Sarella?
Better minor league numbers than most names tossed around on the board here. And he is only 22.
Sorry, Saarela.
@slovak think that he is definitely in the conversation. Camp should bring about tough competition for those bottom 6 spots.
Slovak agree on Saarela he could be dark horse to make team. Even if he gies down to start he has that low $750,000 range like Sikura that can play in Rfd and be recalled for a top 6 or 9 role without using up little capspace if their operating on the bubble of the ceiling which it looks like they may.
Listening to Bowmam interview today, saying talks will pick up with Perlini now after latest trade. Then said there is more work to do around cap space yet, so not sure if that means he is still trying to move Peerlini or another what would have to be 7 figure contract.
Sounds like Boqvist and Dach are going to have a real shot to make the team, no surprise really. Selling high on Nylander trade without any resl projections of where he fits though is how i took it.
Yea Sarrela could be ready before Nylander and Dach, to play 40 games.
Makes sense he be Rockford because, we can, and then when those guys play 9 games depending on things then he plays games.
Thats why the forst 20 games could be fun because these guys could play up to 9 games or longer but play.
@Ian – it could mean trading one of Dahlstrom or KK – they’re probably not going to carry 8 D men to start the year and no one is waiver exempt so if you don’t trade one you could lose them on waivers
So either by waivers or by trade one of those two likely won’t be on the opening roster freeing up close to $1 million more in cap space
Wrap agree, if they dob
Don’t see Koekkoek in future plans likely be him. Be either him or Boqvist filling in for Dehaan to start most likely and Dahlstrom be the 7th guy, is my thoughts.
Saarela and Kubalik are the two guys whom I am hopeful will surprise to the upside. Later in the year, if all goes well for them in the Rock maybe Kurashev and/or Entwistle get a look.
I doubt any of the Russians (Shalunov, Altaybarmaykan, or Kayumov) ever wear feathers and Soderlund has kind of flatlined, so not counting on him either. None of these latter guys are trending especially well and their window is getting smaller.
Has Soderlund showed up at prospect camp yet – or is he still having visa problems?
I don’t know the circumstances of Soderlund’s visa problems so maybe something happened that is extreme or unavoidable … but … I would think that someone who knows ahead of time they will be traveling abroad would have completed all the requirements with enough spare time to handle unforeseen issues. I’m not putting this on Soderlund because almost certainly he has an agent who is supposed to handle this kind of stuff, but it’s a bad look for a guy who is already fading from managements view. Too bad.
Jordy in Bowmans interview he basically said i thought anyways that Shalunov and Nalimov aren’t prioroties any longer and Altybarmakyan hsd to show more. Kayumov seemed to be only one he had interest in now.
Soderlund gets a year maybe 2 to put up or its over right now. He seemed pretty impressed with Entwistle too, probably more of a bittom 6 project.
This was posted on “The Athletic” today. According to the author Hawks don’t look too good in contract field management in the salary cap era.
https://theathletic.com/1078201/2019/07/17/by-the-numbers-grading-every-teams-contract-efficiency/
What Kool Aid is everyone drinking??? Dale Tallon built the team that won the first Cup. But who was the assistant GM? Bowman. Are you telling me that Bowman didn’t know about these RFA signings and the significance of getting them in to the league in a timely fashion, or did he ignore them to trip up Tallon to make him look bad? It’s documented that McDonough was envious of the publicity that Tallon was getting for his efforts. If you’re the assistant to any supervisor, aren’t you going to help them to make sure they look ? good, which in turn will make you look good, unless you have ulterior motives? Yes, Tallon gave out some bad contracts, but the hard cap began the first year he was GM. There wasn’t anybody doing work as capologist then, since it was a new position that was necessary to be created, Can anyone name a team that was able to successfully navigate those waters??? Please name the team. But can anybody explain to me why we are still hearing that the hard cap is still an issue that is still going on FOURTEEN YEARS LATER now with the Hawks??? HOW MUCH LONGER will we hear this crap???
Hmmm… Interesting isn’t it??? I’m not the only one that believes that Bowman has not done the job as a GM in the salary cap era…Daddy (Scotty) can’t help you all of the time…sounds like that Q wasn’t the problem…but the ironic thing about all of this was that the drunk son (Bill Wirtz) was the proponent for the salary cap…you can look it up, it’s a documented fact that the second generation of any family business, always manages to crash it 2/3 of the time…https://fowmedia.com/generation-businesses-fail/amp/
It’s funny how many people still think Tallon built the 2010 team and continue to shit on Stan. Stan rebuilt after Dale had some absolutely awful foresight. Oh and Dale is on the hotseat in Florida.
https://www.dailyherald.com/sports/20190413/rozner-ex-blackhawks-quenneville-tallon-form-interesting-pair
And … we’re still discussing Dale Tallon.
OK, I’ll join the discussion – I loved Dale Tallon in the broadcast booth. Engaging personality and great sense of humor. He and Foley were an outstanding team. I was sad when he closed that chapter of his life.
It’s amazing how people can’t read the facts…my first Hawks game was in ‘66 against the Bruins…http://www.chicagonow.com/one-goal/2010/05/the-2009-2010-blackhawks-dale-tallons-team/
“Chicago insiders say it wasn’t GM Dale Tallon’s fault that qualifying offers to the club’s restricted free agents got bungled, leaving the likes of Kris Versteeg(notes) (a former Bruins draft pick) and Cam Barker(notes) potential unrestricted free agents (pending a grievance filed by the Players Association). The offers, though mailed on time, didn’t reach all recipients by the June 30 deadline. Why? According to one source who has regular dealings with the Chicago front office, club president John McDonough had a hand in delaying the mailing of the offers. Meanwhile, Tallon offered himself up for the blame.”
Ray, if you want to absolve Tallon of some of those deals like Huet and Campbell (who made more than Seabrook does now a decade and 25 million more in salary cap later), like they did in your linked article…then don’t you have to assume the 2 worst contracts handed out in Bickell and Seabrook had the same oversight from McDonough? Im not saying I like the trades. But let’s at least see if they work out rather than putting our foot in our mouths. What’s done is done. If they don’t work, someone is getting fired.
Here we go, Tallon, again. We may as well discuss Pulford, Keenan or Ditka for all the good it does. Here’s an observation and I challenge anyone to provide an argument otherwise. No one in Florida is going to erect any Tallon statues either. Someone go ahead and make the case. Whether it’s business or sports, the guy sitting in the chair is the one that’s going to get paid. Stan gets credit for 3. That’s life.
Looking at this roster, this is a significantly improved roster vs last year. I think Stan had enough cap space to over-commit in a couple areas of weakness (D, FO, defensive forwards, depth), he changed the toughness of the team, he had flexibility to respond to a blue-bird (Lehner) which may have huge long-term implications, he reduced the wear and grind on his star players (Toews in particular), built C depth across the organization, he added offense (Shaw) and largely left flexibility to support signings for next year. This was a hugely active transformation. Admittedly, not every trade is a 49-0 win where some are more incremental (AA for Smith), but this roster is built to take and give a beating, good enough to win a series. Oh, by the way, many on this site have shared that the skills camp has more talent than we can remember. We have significant talent throughout the organization.
Sure, continue with the brainless Tallon vs Stan bleating, but, just know it’s mindless bleating and nothing more.
If it was as is right now, i would go
Saad Toews Kane
Dcat Strome Shaw
Smith Dach Kubalik
Cagguila Kampf Carpenter
Quenneville
Toews taking the top line fos and a righty/lefty combo for fos on other lines
Strome/Shaw Smith/Dach Kampf/Carp
On the blueline
Keith Gus
Boqvist Srabrook
Maatta Murphy
Dahlstrom
De haan on ir. Fits in under the cap 80.8m roughly. Use De haan ltir if he going to be awhile and send Boqvist to Rfd when he returns and have room for a callup, with full roster.
Kudos Aurora. All of it. Well stated in my opinion.
Ian, yea on that stuff thinking he really likes the guys who are essentially the Four Horsemen and franchise guy. Nothing against the others but these 5 guys are just that good and it shows, big time. So like Jordy said about those guys there 2nd? in line behind the Four Horsemen and Dach. I guess someone stepped into a Horsemen, because we still have 5 or more blue chips coming. Nothing is changing that.
ER, you know what they say about Kings. They are Flatlanders. Tallon is a King to these people. Bowman is a prince. Thats the only thing that matters.
Unless its King adjustable reservoir custom valved shim stack shocks. It aint shit shovel shut the F up.
I would take a true Saskatoon boy over a pre madonna spoiled brat anyday.
Silent Aurora, you guys make good points.
Yeah Mo if Vlasic can be a shutdown force with Murphy if still around or someone else and Beaudin, Boqvist and Mitchell can form the other pairings with Keith and beyond, defense looks fine going forward, if he doesn’t trade them away. Gus just doesn’t seem long term to me, but time will tell on that too, hard to let him go also.
My frustration is why are they considering a contract extension to a GM who has missed the playoffs 2 yrs in a row. He panicked after loosing in round 1 to Nashville by trading Panarin and Hammer. To give Bowman all the credit for 2 cups is not right either. A great core was already there. Plus the 3 great D, Keith, Seabrook,Hammer like Montreal had in the day with Savard, Robinson, Lapointe.
I agree with Ray. Rumour has it Scotty did some back stabbing in Detroit to become the GM, and the same for Stan in Chicago. So let Stan prove his worth . If they don’t make the playoffs this yr, he should be gone.
Bravo Aurora
@Ian – I see the roster the same as you and I don’t have a problem with that line up although I’m sure it’ll get shuffled around
The wild cards upfront are Nylander, Perlini and Sikura – can any of those crack the top 9?
Nylander and Sikura are exempt from waivers so they could easily start in RKF and Perlini could be the 14th FW if they have the cap space
The Tallon vs. Bowman thing is sooo old and soooo tired for all of us who have been here (lurking or otherwise) awhile.
It’s been beaten more than a dead horse.
No matter who’s camp you’re in, you’re NOT going to convince the “other side” that you’re right.
JUST STOP.
P.S. Detroit still sucks.
For Frustrated Hawk Fan,
Whether it’s a Corporate environment or a Sports Management environment, it’s competitive and people gun for each other. It’s part of the territory, it’s accepted and everyone knows it. If Stan influenced Tallon’s demise, then it’s obvious Tallon didn’t look over his shoulder well enough. That’s part of the job too. Frankly, it’s immaterial.
Per Suntimes all 8 D’s have one way contract. Unless it’s incorrect kk and CD are in the line up unless there is another trade. The following yr both Quennville and Sikura have one way deals. I guess more trades are coming.
And, I think Stan needs to make the playoffs to keep his job, unless extenuating circumstances arise.
One way contracts only mean they get paid full salary if sent minors, two way they get about $70,000 in minors usually.
Love the flexibility and options we have this year. There are several guys to watch and several more than can pop. Think if things break right, we could be looking at the PO and not just a qualifier. Love the added toughness, defensive options for our forward group, FO and PK upgrades. Think we will also see a bit of a renaissance out of our older stars as the load spreads out. I’m optimistic, if you’re not, piss off
Step, yes.
Waiver exempt prob for everyone that can be so we keep the most players.
Playoffs have to remember were in, by far, the hardest division. When you look at it yuo could take the top 7 teams in East conference and they would Equal the central division. While the west division has an easier sch to pad record and could be tuf for a team to get 5 seed. When the west division no way in heck deserves 5 teams.
Hawkone, do not know how anyone could be unhappy. What did they want Bob for 10 m and 7 yrs. Getting a overpay ufa was going to say hey wh got a star now Bowman did good? By not getting any overpay ufas, even last 2 yrs, and getting good ufas this summer when it was the right time to do it, is what matters and is good moves.
It was wise to not get good players last two yr, otherwise were picking 15-20 in both drafts. By doing what Bowman did, that specifically, got us two top 6 skill players with on being a franchise player. Now, then, was the time to get good ufas and trade for good players in spots we didnt have filled, with good enough players.
People can think what they want, but I am going with Bowman was waiting for the right moment to add good players with caphits not higher then 4m, so no overpays.
Hes not loading up now because of job or something.
The team didnt tank, but Bowman and crew got tank ufas and that is the biggest reason why we have two elite players for the next 10-15 yrs. Its the best way to reload. What good would it have done to make playoffs, get two 15-20 picks and get blasted by two top 3 teams in NAS and WIN last 2 yrs.
Its better to win in playoffs and have a full roster to do it, then try to play with 1/2 or 3/4 a roster against top 3 teams like that.
Now that those two top 3 teams are not as good as before with losing players to salary cap, we are on our way up and have a wave of good young players coming. To me it looks like Bowman timed this out and did very good with the timing standpoint of this.
Whether you call missing the playoffs 2 years in a row unacceptable – it’s inevitable in a salary cap league that designed to level the playing field and make it near impossible to stay at the top of the league indefinitely. The Hawks under Stan have done better than most teams at staying at or near the top for an extended period of time and are positioning themselves to get back into the playoff hunt within the next couple seasons. Expecting more than that is unrealistic. Look around the league and count the number of teams that have done better over the past 10-12 years.
Whine about what hasn’t happened all you want but I prefer to appreciate what we’ve been given and look forward to more exciting things ahead.
^^^
?????????
I agree with you! I made a comment criticizing Bowman and someone had to get defensive and bring up Tallon. What I get tired of hearing about is Cap space issues! Are we the only team in the NHL that every year, now going on for a decade that has Cap space issues??? Just for one year, I’d like to hear people discuss what we have with the dollars we have! How have other teams remained in contention when they have the same cap space??? Can I get an answer to who was the GM that signed all the current players to no trade contracts which are an albatross to the team???
I’m not a Stan apologist. I readily admit that hindsight has proven he has made some bad choices, but he has also made some good choices. I believe he should be judged on the whole rather than on individual moves and it’s my opinion that he has done well on the whole and the results support that position. Only three teams have won more than 1 Cup in the past 10-12 years and the Hawks are one of those teams.
@STEFANIE, Absolutely correct!
Not getting into it now, but no other team had a dynasty. Its one thing to win 2 Cups its another thing to do it in 2in3 and 3in6 yrs. Bookends do not count.
When I typed, Step I meant Stef.
@Ray – not getting snarky with you here so don’t take this the wrong way
Bowman is fair game for criticism as much as anyone else but unless I’ve missed something it was you with your post on July 17 5:28 pm who brought up Tallon – just saying
And I agree with Stephanie as well
That’s fine. I’m too busy to read through all of the threads for those details of who said what, when. But I’ll reduce it as simply as I can, based upon performance, I’m willing to wager $1,000 that the Hawks don’t win a Cup in the next 3 years. That’s not being negative, that’s looking at the reality of their situation.
I would say we got better chance winning Cup in 21 or 22 seasons, then after 2029 season when 19 88 are retired.
The real window is 2021 to 2029. Then after 19 88 you need two super stars. We do have one already though and his name is KIRBY DACH.
It doesnt matter to me what yr in the next 8-10 yrs we win another Cup.
DET sucks and it took them 10 yrs to get 4th. Were going to do the same.
Thing to remember is we do not have to win another dynasty to win another Cup.
We only have to win one Cup to get 4th with the bulk being dynasty Cups.
For as dominate the 2013 Chicago Blackhawks did, what a once in 750 yrs thing for stats. There were lots of people here and elsewhere saying we wont win the Cup on that yr because if this and that. and that was one of the best teams in history of sport, stat wise.
Ask TB how that works, being the top team and still winning with every team bullseye playing there hardest against us. Ref letting DET get away with 40 hook holds and interferences per game. Calling Saad for 2 min for getting pushed into bench and then the Flatlander dragging his skate across his helmet before he got up. TB may be the top team last yr but they are no dynasty Cup, go through that like we did and still win.
TB has no heart. Blackhawks are dynasty Cups heart.
I do think though we ll have as good of chance, be even a better team when 19 88 are 35-40 then when they are 30-35 because the Entire young wave will be in prime of prime yrs. So we got 9-10 yrs to win some more Cups with this core. Not 2 and 7.
In my view, the two most consequential off-season moves so far are:
Andrew Shaw
Alex Nylander
Shaw has become outstanding in his combination of toughness with much improved skill since he last played for us. Very versatile. But, is injury prone, has three years left on his contract, and we gave up 2nd and 3rd round picks for him. He will be a major contributor as long as he can play.
As for Nylander, not much more needs to be added that hasn’t already been stated. Bowman keeps parting with 1st round picks. If he eventually makes the team, great. Otherwise, a step backwards.
@Original
Good list although I think I would add Lehner to that list
Not only will there be no appreciable drop off from one goalie to the next this year (basically two #1 goalies which should mean extra regular season points) but CHI could well re-sign him and have their post Crawford #1 goalie and if they are to win a Cup again with T and K quite possibly their next Cup winning goalie
Have no idea what the Bowman/Tallon talk is going to prove, it is what it is and people will see what they want. Agree as a longtime Blackhawks fan the last have number of years been alot of fun, hopefully more fun years coming.
Fact is Bowman is Gm and was durung the cup era . I question his mileage he has gotten out draft picks, especially 1st rounders, didn’t particularily care for how he parted ways with Q either, but other than that pretty satisfied. Yes he could’ve done some things different. Waiting for 3 cups to be delivered and then rewarding for the players delivering them seems to be more successful way of doing business than anything else i saw yet. Could’ve not made certaim trades and made others, but every action has reaction and no guarantees the results would’ve been the same, i ll take the 3 cups, seeing how i waited 45 years before for the 1st one
Good post Original 6. I would add Robin Lehner.
The Hawks stole the heir apparent to Corey Crawford on a one year deal. Huge coup as the Crawford era winds down.
I hope these posts are correct. However saying we have 2 superstars in waiting is a little premature. According to the so called pros neither Dach or Boqvist were unanimous choices. So we will have to see how they develope. The salary cap is very difficult to manage. Look at the contracts given out. If cat has another good yr he will want 8 to 9 million. Same for Strome.
Who’s Tallon? Never heard of them. Is it a band or something?
Ray, you brought up Tallon. I provided some links so we don’t revise history.
@Ray. No way anyone takes the $1000 wager of the Hawks winning the cup in the next three unless you were going to give odds of about 150/1 at least.
Realistically it’s going to difficult to just make the playoffs.
Lot of teams are getting better not just Chicago.
Maybe it’s me. And, I’m perfectly willing to admit it might be me; however, I just don’t see how Stan has put the Hawks in “Cap Hell.” I just don’t. I’d like someone explain how spending up to the limit specifically the way Stan has done it is “Cap Hell” and I’d like someone to explain how it’s impossible for Stan to make moves next year to support the necessary signings. Explain it. For all the things Stan does and doesn’t do well, managing the Cap is his overwhelming strength as identified by a number of GM ratings. Stan works the numbers as well as anyone. So, once again, explain it.
Stan has 2 objectives: win another cup now while we have a few players still within their peak windows AND sustain. To me, it feels like he’s doing both, responsibly. That’s probably another thing that should be noted: FA dollars this year were silly stupid. Stan kept his powder dry, not overspending, while making huge upside and low/medium downside moves. It was a great off-season in that regard.
He gets one maybe two more tries. Though, this team appears to have both high-skill talent and heavy, heavy players who can both take and deliver a beating. This team is built to compete with both the Blues and the Avalanche next year.
Stan isn’t perfect and he has some doozy moves, but he’s better than most and has done much more good than bad as GM. I think he’s the right guy for the job.
I pretty sure said one superstar already, DACH and that we have two now 19 88.
Yea, a good 5 teams got better. Also though the top 5 teams all got worse. Now they were better then everyone else and are still top 10 teams but not the top 5 anymore.
Were in by far hardest division and thats why its still tuff for us to make playoffs. One of STL, NAS, WIN might not make it, if DAL and COL and us play good. It will be very tough but we have a much better roster because its full again.
I think this Tallon fellow was a crooked cop or bank robber in a John Wayne movie or something. His name sounds familiar.
Lehner prob is goalie for another Cup, unless Crow stays for decent caphit like 2m. Then they both are.
I think were going to be really good this yr but most important is getting valuable experience as a group and for the guys who havnt seen it yet. Then we ll be good for yrs.
Lots of good times coming, again.
Aurora, I’d explain it to you if I could but I can’t because, like you, I think Stan has done a pretty good job despite some missteps, common to all GMs.
Of course, I know you were being rhetorical because you know as well as I that any explanation offered would be from a perspective that is nonsensical to those of us that look at the situation more optimistically than those dissatisfied with the current circumstances. Over simplified – half full / half empty. I’m glad I’m a “half full” and I suspect you are too.
1-Kane, 2-Toews 3-deBrincat 4-Strome 5-Saad 6-Shaw 7-Caggiula 8-Z. Smith 9-Carpenter 10-Kampf 11-Kubalik 12-Sikura 13-Quenneville 14-Nylander 15-Sarella 16-Nilsson 17-Wedin 18-Highmore
Man, that’s a lot of forwards and I’m not including Dach in here.
If I’m Perlini. I’d try to get a contract done with Bowman ASAP because the train is leaving without him.
Sorry, I should have said most consequential trades, not moves. Was focused on what we gave up with our trades. I completely agree with you about the Lehner signing and was wrote how thrilled I was. By Feb., if his sv% is around .920, Bowman better be prepared to offer him 3-4 years, around $6M AAV. I think he will be our #1 most of the year.
Try this again:
Sorry, I should have said most consequential trades, not moves. Was focused on what we gave up in our trades. I completely agree with you about the Lehner signing and wrote how thrilled I was. By Feb., if his sv% is around .920, Bowman better be prepared to offer him 3-4 years, around $6M AAV. I think he will be our #1 most of the year.
On that note, Original 6. How about this. The Hawks are humming in late February, with Lehner having another stellar season. Montreal is desperate to get into the playoffs and as usual Price gets hurt.
Bergevin calls Stan and offers a 1st round pick in 2020 and a 3rd round pick in 2021 for Crawford. Do you do it ? Or do you keep Crawford around for the Hawks impending playoff run ?
Thats tuff because theres a 50/50 chance if Lehner is the future goalie, it makes sense but you have that two good goalie tandem that we had in 2013 and 2015. Darls was wicked in 2015 when Crow was off a little but we win with Crow. Now it might be Lehner but might need two good ones like 2015.
If Crow doesnt stay for 2 more yrs around 2 m, then I guess you could say whats the difference this yr and the coming yrs when were actually deeper.
19 FW with Dach, what I see there is nice balance. There is a few or so of each kind of player. So if anyone is out for a little bit, we have back ups in every position. Were deep in every position.
I love the Crow but am stoaked about Lehner being a top goalie for yrs and doesnt have the heslth stuff like Crow or Rask.
Good things happen to those that Do Not tank on purpose. A top 3 draft pick and a top goalie with Lehner.
Lehner is good and younger. 6m at 4 yrs.
Craig i think Lehner plays alot to keep Crawford fresh and healthy for playoffs, like i mentioned before how the Islanders did with Billy Smith in their 4 cup run, Resch playing the majority of games during season and sat for the proven money goalie in playoffs. So don’t believe it happens but never know.
Aurora don’t know what cap hell means, but this years team is definitely a one year load up. Could be just a couple of moves made if cap dumped or alot of changes, unless other options come in to play to free up space but can definitely be done.
Craig you pull that trigger with Montreal. When Spencer Knight is ready for FL you get Bob and another #1 & #3 from FL with FL paying 1/2 of Bob’s money for 3 yrs.
Craig, that’s a toughie because if the Hawks are “humming along” I wouldn’t want to take a chance on torpedoing that momentum and trading a key long-time core member could definitely change the dynamic and vibe of the team.
Plus, isn’t the draft in Montreal next year? If that’s correct I doubt Bergevin would trade their #1 pick – especially if they are a bubble team and could miss the playoffs and have a chance at winning the lottery … Alexis Lafreniere would welcomed in Montreal like a conquering hero ala Julius Caesar entering Rome. No way Bergevin blows that opportunity.
Not thinking its a one yr load up. More we wanted to have a, Full, roster and with quality players. Thats just the caphits they had.
After this yr, yea we cant keep every one of these guys because of 12 and 17. Not saying its a tryout but we do not keep Maata and Haan, we keep one of them and theres 4m. Same with 65 and 15, we keep one and there 4 or 3. Prob do that with those kind of guys and caphits. So, you see what I mean.
So in terms of not keeping them all yea but I see us keeping most of them and not the ones we cant, so its more of a lets have Leads and Rozy at 2 and 2.2 when we can and then when we cant we trade one and keep one kind of thing.
Mo the point is this roster will have some changes. Have some decisions around rfas, 12 and 17 seemingly obvious resigns. Not so Gus Kubalik and Cagguila maybe someone else too by end of season. Do you resign fwds move Gus or vice versa, resign none or all and move contracts. At least one contract will have to be moved for bonus overages before next July. Do you keep them to end of season and make a cap dump or make moves earlier and get more return. If bringing back salary means mors moves needed, if for prospects or picks then maybe not. Funny thing is if its a good decision gets forgotten pretty quick, if its a bad one read about it daily forever as it grows in size how bad it was.
After watching the scrimmage today and seeing the clips from the camp earlier in the week – any concerns I had about Dach’s skating have been totally erased. I was concerned that Dach would be similar to Strome in that he has everything to be a top line center except his skating was sub par. Dach’s skating will not be a limiting factor – he’s about as nimble on his skates as a big man can get. Very impressive.
Just watching some highlights of today’s scrimmage from Powers
Dach and Boquist are featured and looking great – also nice assist from Nylander
I hope Beaudin-Boqvist are paired together in Rockford – really like the way they played together in the scrimmage.
The scrimmage had a little too much dipsy doodle, which is kind of expected, so I’m really looking forward to Traverse City where some of that fancy Dan stuff gets left in the practice sessions.
Yeah agree this camp for show, hard to make to much of it non contact. Gotta remember Nylander has 3 years pro experience, most of these guts have none. That’s on small ice suface too so be a bigger concern if he didn’t impress out there.
Could see Boqvist get a limited amount of games early and get a regular spot if a dman moved around trade deadline too. Keep him under the 40 game plateau.
Craig maybe moving Crawford at tdl has some merit too as it could help in other ways also. If Saad not going to play a top 6 role, gotta wonder after acquiring guys lije Shaw and Smith for a lot less of a caphit both for 2 more tears also if he is someone who could be moved too.
If Lehner is able to put a second consecutive year of above average play together I expect he’ll be re-signed and CC to be gone and Delia (or Lankinen) as back up
I think it’s too early to tell much regarding Saad’s future with the team – it’s not just his play that will factor in but the play of younger players who might replace him in the line up and thirdly what his ask is on a new contract
Having said all that I think it’s about 60/40 that he’s traded sometime in the next 2 years
@Craig July 19, 2019 at 1:33 am
Craig, no disrespect for Crawford, who we all love, and who anchored the greatest Blackhawks team in history, but I would take just a 1st round pick from a bubble team like MTL. If the Hawks are humming with Crow playing great, no way would Bowman disrupt that. Agree with ER, after learning from him that the draft will be in MTL next year, they will not part with this pick.
Crawford will be 35 midway through the season. Hopefully, he will stay healthy and give us a good year. At the TDL, if the Hawks are not looking like a playoff team, they should shop him. Am somewhat ashamed to even say that.
JR, terrific and humorous post about the Bobrovsky contract. With all of this comparison stuff of Tallon and Bowman: For those who miss Tallon, name one fa signing as insane as what he gave Bob? Especially after drafting Knight at #13? Tallon just puched his ticket to be a marginal playoff team at best along with being in long-term cap hell. If FL doesn’t make the playoffs in two years, he will be gone.
Ian, yea your right about what you were saying, as was I. Wasnt going against your thought, just my first thought in the way that it wasnt a add 5 players and they 5 leave after this yr.
I guess what is better deal for us, in terms of what we do for those possibilities. The guys that have yrs would have to be trade and wouldnt make sense to take caphit back. So that can be, like that, in trying to trade a player a 4m. Well we added those guys for full caphit so someone would.
I think Lehner has ahd 4 good yrs in a row now?
Players like Saader are hard tom come by but if we get someone else from within. Dach cant count here, hes our franchise player and that is for future longterm wise. It has to be someone else, Entwhistle?
I am for trading Crow Maata and others if its good return, only because we have as good and yonger guys here now. Would it make that much a difference between deadline or draft summer, with those trades.
Ian…Saad is a top 6 forward …what you smoking ?
2010 checkout where Colliton played him last season, where were you.
Saad is a great asset to have but I think his strengths mesh better with some players and in some styles of play than he does with others. He was a perfect fit to play with Toews-Hossa because his straight ahead speed and power game complimented how that line wanted to play. He is more of a north/south player than an east/west player and as such he isn’t the best LW to play opposite Kane who is one of the best east/west players in the world. Kane could adapt his game because he’s that talented – but is that best for the team?
So if DCat is one of the top-6 LW’s – and he is – and Kane is playing with Toews on the top line – that necessarily puts Saad on the 3rd line.
Now, if Toews and Kane are separated – then absolutely plug in Saad with Toews with Shaw or Kubalik or even Caggiula on RW with Saad-Toews – that would work well I think.
What if Dach makes the team? How about this lineup:
Saad-Toews-Shaw
Nylander-Dach-Kane
DCat-Strome-Kubalik
Caggiula-Kampf-Smith/Carpenter
ER, good post and Ian on other options for keeping the ssalary cap.
ER, like those lines. Everytime I do lines the most balanced is that 20 19, 77 88, 12 17 kind of setup.
I think Shaw gives the 12 17 line pop, but
I really like 20 19 65 line. It has pace.
Thing is we prob have to wait for 77 to be able to play to roll those lines. Then we can have 3 scoring lines that are that good, and thats by not spreading it our over three lines.
Those pairs are stout. We always has the big 4, then 20, and they were 88 81 not on same line. 10 19, 10 88, 19 81. So the pairs your saying is balanced, but its not spread out.
Looks like the white team was up 5-2 and let up? Ties 5-5 and stretch pass goal with 7 seconds left?
Everybody saying very good things about Boqvist and Dach. Also that Mitch Vlasic Kurachev and Nylander some look good to. They should they are top 6 skill players.
Your talking two elite players and maybe 4 very good players right there.
I would say Vlasic make the Horsemen, Four Horsemen again.
Whats nice with a 20 19 65 line is we have two checking lines then and can match up that much better then with just one.
I thought it was indicated, not totally sure that to start the year 19 and 88 would stay together on one line and 12 and 17 together on another line.
@ER – love all the optimistic speculation about Dach
What’s not to love about this young man and his abilities and personality (check out the Dach mic’d up video on Hawks site) but if he were to make the team I don’t think he’d play with Kane – at least not right away
I think Ian is right that JC has basically said he’s going start with 88 and 19 on a line together but regardless of that I think putting Dach with Kane as an 18 year old rookie puts too much pressure on him to produce right away plus he would then see a higher quality of competition playing with Kane
3C seems the perfect fit for Dach if he makes the team – someone posted a possible 20-77-65 line – that sounds like it could be an awesome 3rd line and good line mates for Dach
Of course lots of things have to fall in the right way for that line to happen such as other players like Nylander, Kubalik or even Perlini playing well enough to fill FW spots on limes 1 and 2 but its fun to dream
I really don’t like the idea of putting Kane, Toews and Debrincat on separate lines. Which one of those guys do you want playing third line minutes? I can’t see any of them getting 10 -12 minutes per game. Even if you spread the load, that reduces your best players minutes.
That makes sense for 1st 40 games or so but at some point they are ready. Even at first it makes sense to not do 77 88 right away but again not too long before we do.
Not dreaming these lines will happen. For Dach, Nylander we have to see.
No question 11 91 82-kubalik if he can score can all play on 1st and 2nd line, so 65 doesnt have to and can have that 20 ? 65 line. Which one works better with 19 88 and 12 17 is interesting.
Well when we have those 3 lines, were rolling 4 lines and those guys you mentioned are PP. Its that or 77 plays wing 1st line.
20 19 77
12 17 88
20 19 88
12 17 77
Prob more of a 1, 2a and 2a lines then a 3rd.
82 19 88
12 17 11
20 77 65
Thats the way we did it in 2013, with Saad or Shapry on 3rd line. Bicks was the benefish. Need a dude liek Bicks to make it work.
to start
82 19 88
12 17 11
20 15 65
91 64 40
when Dach Nylander ready enough
20 19 65
82 77 88
12 17 92
91 15 40
64
Wrap, good point about the elevated QOC Dach would face if playing with Kane.
The word “predictability” was one of Q’s favorite words – he wanted to know what he could expect from every player and he wanted to be able to count on it. While there are always a few players who are either unpredictable or unknown – it seems like most of the team would not qualify as predictable for one reason or another going into this season – at least the forward cohort.
The only forwards who would fall into the predictable category are Toews, Kane, DeBrincat, and Saad. There are legitimate questions on every other forward – which is not to say they will turn out in the negative – only that we can’t say with certainty they will turn out one way or the other.
Looking at the rest of the forwards:
1. Strome – will he continue on the pace he was on the 2nd half – get better? get worse?
2. Shaw – will he stay healthy enough to be a key player?
3. Kubalik – rookie unknown.
4. Perlini – the poster boy of unpredictability.
5. Caggiula – probably falls just short of the predictable category.
6. Sikura – will he get off the goal scoring schneid early enough to not be “a thing”?
7. Kahun – predictable except Colliton seems to think he has more offense – does he?
8. Smith – is he a washed up player or can he play well enough to be a regular?
9. Nylander – look into the crystal ball on this guy.
10. Carpenter – not sure what to expect.
11. Quenneville – 1st round reclamation project – status pending.
12. All the rest – who knows?
Edit to post above:
#7 is supposed to be Kampf – not Kahun.
7. Kampf – predictable except Colliton seems to think he has more offense – does he?
ER – good breakdown
Based on early evidence it seems Dach will soon fall into the predictable category
I’m not betting against him making the team
If he does someone will sit or be traded – Caggiula? Perlini? Carpenter? Kampf?
Its easy to write Nylanders name in the top 6 but have yet to see any reasonable argument as to why he is expected to just be there. Personally i feel if he is counted on to be top 6 winger out of camp this team is in a world of trouble, i think this roster is stronger than that. Maybe he can become a decent Nhl player but counting on him to be a top 6 in October, yikes!
EB why do you question the if Smith is washed up, he is only 31, had one of his better point production ywars of his career, he had 3 of his best point years were in the last 4. His pk is solid, fo% is good, possession numbers don’t jump out at you, but if you look at the team numbers his were among the best on Sens last season.
If you mean the end of training camp publicity stunt of waiving him last season, the Sens ownership and management were roundly criticized for knowing there was zero chance he would be claimed and making an example out one of their more respected players.
Let’s start out with:
Saad Toews Kane
D’Cat Strome Shaw
Kubalik Dach Nylander
Carp Smith Caggs
Nothing wrong with the 4th line guys splitting games to stay fresh and energy.
cant stat how huge of a difference it makes to roll 4 lines and have a checking line. Look what happened when 64 was out for a bit, that was the only time in games 30-80 we didnt do good. We now have two checking lines if you do 20 19 65. We did 20 19 88 last yr for some games and they wernt that dominate.
I think now, with full roster, rolling 4 lines will make that way better. They now can play as good as they really are, as a line. If they do not I like 3 very good lines instead of two maybe better. If a 20 19 88 line kicks ass with having roll 4 lines, sure.
This is how huge of a deal it is to get Smith Carpenter, and Caguluga last yr. We now have 5 guys counting 65 that are those kind of players instead of just 64. Major difference.
You have trickle down effect, there trickle up effect.
@JR – like your top 2 lines but I’m with Ian – I don’t think Nylander makes the opening roster – he still has a lot to prove – I could see him being called up and maybe sticking later in the year
to start the year after your top 6
Smith Dach Kubalik
Caggs Kampf Carpenter
That’s a pretty good line for Dach to start on and Kubalik too for that matter
Ian, I have liked Smith for years and I know the reason he was put on waivers so that didn’t influence me at all. The reason I didn’t put him in the predictable category is because he’s missed games the last few years and from comments on the Ottawa site that indicate he’s slowed down and wasn’t the same player last season as he was a few years ago. Maybe that’s wrong but it put a question mark next to his name for me.
What does Dach need to do in camp to prove he deserves to be on the NHL roster?
I suspect the Hawks will be a little conservative with him and won’t have him start on the NHL roster unless they are sure he won’t regress and need to be sent back to his junior team. I am not sure if him being an ELC slide candidate will affect their decision at all. Maybe it shouldn’t, but it is a nice thing to fall back on if he is not ready. I like the idea of his ELC expiring the same year as Toews, Kane and Keith rather than the year before that.
For me, I hope he shows in camp that he can do what DeBrincat did his rookie year: 1) Not be intimidated by the physicality of the NHL.
2) Always be consistently defensively responsible.
3) Play within his means and not try to force plays.
If he can do that, he probably will not need to play a year against his peers in junior hockey before hitting the NHL.
I’m with Ian and Wrap concerning Nylander. Has not proved anything in three years that indicates he is ready for the NHL. Ian is right that the team is in a “world of trouble” if he is expected to start. I have posted before that I expect him to start in RFD. Would be satisfied if Nylander needed a full year of development before being ready for the NHL. Just read comments by several experts that he avoids contact and going to the net. No checking, fighting for the puck, or defending. Terrific speed and playmaking ability. Will hopefully build on these skills.
With all of the off-season changes, including trading for players who are injury-prone, we are not there yet, particularly on D. How can anyone have confidence that we are now a playoff team?
Bowman…well,..the proof remains no dman since he took over as GM… No goalie…Since Saad, only one winger named Dcat… And the trades that destroyed our depth are a plenty. But, the Bowmans are in with Wirtz so let’s see what happens in December. Dach can make it or break it for Bowman. Scotty? Well, after Dale Tallon’s father saved his life and got a young Scotty a job as a scout for the Montreal Canadians, Scotty turned back and helped get Dale out of Chicago. That is all you need to know about the great coach Scotty Bowman…not the greatest GM…or person but a great coach. And firing Mike Kitchen, Joel’s best friend for over 40 years was one of the lowest things I had ever seen done by a GM in sports.
DACH, SAARELA, BOQ, MITCHELL, KURASHEV, SLAVIN, HAGEL, FROMM and SKOG looked good yesterday. Beaudin as well. Nylander? Well, obviously he weakness is engagement or lack of intensity. Hopefully he finds some urgency and grit in his game otherwise….? Vlasic…? A little soft and slow…. Not sure he has that Parayko or Pietrangelo or BUFF edge that is needed to play with that size. But, let’s see how he develops. He can be a force if he can play that type of game.
Sign Perlini. Sign Perlini.
Let’s Went Hawks!
Let’s talk about Tallon some more!
Original, think same as that and others on Nylander. For us being playoffs is basically we were 9 seed, essentially, last yr and the roster now is way better but more deep and full roster then last yr. Thats with spotting the other teams a -9 25 or so games in. Doesnt mean were 8 seed or higher for this yr but thinking that we are from that.
Think its better for Nylander to do Rockford and play 2-10 games this yr, when hes ready hes ready, 2nd 40 games? or spring or 21 season, thats cool.
77 and 92 play some games this yr. 9 games somewhere in first 20 games for 77 and somewhere for 92.
We had two transition yrs, Tallon was bound to come up. Once we get into this yr and are really good team, we wont hear Tallon again for yrs, again.
On Nylander. It was a last minute invite to Prospects Camp. He flashed some skill and got solid reviews until the scrimmage on Friday, which was just that a scrimmage. Dach, Boqvist starred which is fantastic.
Let’s see what he does in NHL preseason games when it’s an actual audition for a roster spot and if he has to go down to Rockford to prove himself worthy of being on the Hawks then so be it.
But to me the big picture is this : a year ago the only forward most were talking about as a rookie with skill was Sikura and to some degree Fortin.
This July we have Dach, Sikura, Nylander and Saarela with Quenneville pretty much replacing Luke Johnson as the potential #13 forward coming out of training camp.
Bowman did as good as any one could this draft summer and last yr around game 30 roster adjustments.
Manning Cagiluga
Rutta KoKo
Schmaltz Strome
– Perlini
Forsling Maata
Knutz Shaw
Krugs Carpenter
Animov Smith
– Lehner
From a yr ago.
@Craig – I’d love to see Nylander make the team out of camp but realistically I think he’ll start in RKF – if that’s the case then as you said so be it
I’m still think he can be a contributing player for the Hawks eventually
Nylander is one year removed from being the better prospect than HJ. Similar to Schmaltz and Strome in that Schmaltz started his NHL career faster and leaped ahead of Strome, until Strome came to Chicago under Colliton.
Separate note out of Prospects Camp :
Hagel, Kuashev, Slavin, Entwistle appear to have legitimate chances to make the NHL as forwards. Should be a fun year to follow Prospects including Evan Barratt.
Did I read this correctly Saad and Shaw had the same amount of points last year ?
Wow. One guy gets $6 Million. The other gets $4 Million.
Shawzer only played 60 games, better ppg then. Saader still scored 25 mean goals though.
I suspect I am older than most of these fans. I assure you, the Zach Smith acquisition is critical to the Hawks for the same reasons that Shaw, Carpenter and Quenneville were important pick-ups. Why? We have improved our scoring. We have improved our defense. We have improved our goaltending. With the addition of folks like Smith, here’s what happens. Teams show up at the rink knowing that playing the Hawks will no longer seem like a day at the beach. There will be hitting, checking, boarding, chirping, slashing, etc. That’s only the psychology consideration. Strategically, opponents might bench a skill player or two in order to address the Hawks newfound chippy attitude, thereby slightly shrinking their talent level. And the Hawks have achieved this toughness while, at the same time, improving their penalty kill and faceoff win percentage. Never been a huge Bowman supporter, but he has been shrewd this offseason. He has definitely earned a stay-of-execution from me. I just hope he just grips it and rips it regarding Boqvist and Dach. Yes, they are young! Yes, they will be burned sometimes. However, yes, they will definitely be two of our best players. They need to be in Chicago – not Saskatoon or Rockford.
Lots of good points truth in there.
Looking at we have, now, is also we have a good 3? of each type of player. So when someone is banged up for a wk wks we have the same exact kind of player right there ready to roll. Instead of having someone else different skill set fill in, like last two yrs for that. So even with some injury recent to some of these guys we got, we have more then one of them.
Just do not be hurt at same time, please.
We have seen 4 line hockey in 2 yrs. That is about to change.
OMG, I thought I was the only person who saw and called it the way you do when it comes to Bowman. I was eviscerated the other day by all the Bowman apologists for reminding them it was Tallon who built the core that won the Cups for us…and questioning why we still have salary cap issues after Tallon has been gone for a decade…and questioning who was the person that gave out all those no trade contracts…it must be the ghost ? of Dale Tallon!
Like the additions of Shaw, Smith and Carpenter. They give some leadership, grit, hard to play against and character to forwards. If they get the mileage that hoped for out of any or all Nylander, Saarela and Quenneville that could be a huge bonus too.
Throw in guys like Cagguila, Kampf and Dach and 3rd and 4th lines should have a big improvement. Plus guys like Highmore, Entwistle and Johnson, who can bring physical play combined with size or element of greasy play with them for callups if needed.
First time in recent memory i can recall where the ability to recall top 6 skill and bottom 6 grit along with elite defensemen and capable backup goaltenders from minors is at their disposal, that to me may define this team as much as anything this year.
Our two top prospects – Dach and Boqvist – are at similar points on their path to the NHL in that they both need only one thing (two if considering physical maturity that only time will provide) – experience. They are both extremely talented but neither has played against pros/men.
Boqvist can get that experience by playing either in the AHL or NHL. Dach, on the other hand, only the NHL as the WHL will not provide that level of play. That’s not to say playing in the WHL would be a waste of time for him because a player can always work on his game to some extent – but he will need to make the leap up in competition at some point and that will not get done in Saskatoon.
If de Haan is not ready to play on day#1 of the season, I wouldn’t be surprised if Boqvist starts with the Hawks out of training camp, but once de Haan is ready to play Boqvist will most likely head to Rockford because there’s really to spot for him unless Stan trades a d-man. Boqvist will benefit from playing in the AHL almost as much as playing in the NHL so his progression and preparation to play in the NHL moves forward either way.
I think it might be overstating it a bit to say there is a gaping hole at 3C because there are several players who could slot in there that won’t be “terrible”, but they probably won’t be more than serviceable either. So, unlike with Boqvist where there isn’t an open and obvious spot in the lineup for him, the 3C spot is sitting there waiting for Dach to claim it. The conservative/cautious approach would be to send Dach back to Saskatoon and have him one year older and more physically mature when he starts his NHL in 2020/21 – but that only moves the leap to pro play back a year which means his stride and comfort level playing in the NHL is also moved back a year.
And therein lies the real question of what to do about Dach – Will the Hawks be ready to make a legitimate Cup run in 2020/21 which would require Dach to have NHL experience by then to be a key contributor – or is it more realistic that they won’t be in position to be a Cup contender until 2021/22 so Dach could delay the start of his NHL career until 2020/21 and still have a year experience by 2021/22.
Not saying we win this yr but we can play with any team now because of deepness. The 21 season were deep and quality deep, So each yr should get better 21 were better then 20, 22 were better then 21 and so on. I think were going to be really good this yr and can do what STL did but do not think we ll do that, but STL didnt think they could as well. Still.
The 21 season were just going to take it to another level with Bo and Dach settled in.
20- really good but still
21- yes
22- even better yes yes
EB just my opinion, but think Colliton has who he wants to fill 3c role if Dach goes back to juniors, which i don’t expect to happen. If he isn’t ready, i think he feels he has the options he needs to fill the role adequately available, at the very least until one can be acquired. As we have seen a quality defenseman can be valuable trade chip during the season.
I guess what i mean is why not wait to see how Dach or whoever is there works out, when having the assets to acquire if needed are available.
Well yeah – the point I was making is predicated on Dach not stubbing his toe and proving himself not ready through training camp and preseason. I’m not advocating to just throw him in there based only on team expectations – he has to prove it in training camp and preseason games.
I realize that, my point was it seems Colliton is comfortable with options available behind Dach right now or Bowman would have brought in someone else.
Ah – gotcha.
Agree Ian – JC might be looking at Kampf if Dach needs to go back – I’d prefer Shaw but whatever I think you’re right that JC is comfortable with available options
I like Dach’s chances of sticking with the Hawks (all year) and agree ER with Boquist
When de Haan is ready Boq will likely be in RKF – I’m sorta hoping that he’s not ready right away so Boquist gets some NHL games and proves himself the heir apparent to Gus on the PP (especially) and then Gus can be moved at TDL and Boquist recalled from the AHL for good
Until Dach play 3rd line center, wouldnt 64 be better on 4th and Smith or Shaw be the better 3rd center. Those guys score a lot more then 64.
It seems Colliton has a higher opinion of Kampf than I do and I suspect most others do. He coached him in Rockford in 2017/18 so he certainly knows more about Kampf than I do from just watching him play 10-12 minutes per game for the Hawks last season. Therefore if Dach doesn’t make the team I wouldn’t be surprised in the least if Colliton puts him at 3C.
Forgot about that, I was going by faceoffs and scoring goals, not assists points. Both being good checking line players and for short term on this.
Most like 65 on LW or RW and Dach at center, like 64 at center and Carpenter at RW.
Unless something has changed with him, I don’t think Shaw is a good option at center (especially defensively). He is at his best when he is cut loose to stir things up. Playing center places more emphasis on discipline which is not exactly his strong suit.
With Shawzer I am only going with that because he was center for the 12 13 14 15 16 teams. Different players and we do not have Hoss a wing and have Dach a center.
Which would make more of a fit, for those guys in there natural positions.
Dach could be like Hoss.
If Colliton wants to free up Toews for a more offensive role as he put it himself last year. He liked the Saad Kampf combo on what he termed a matchup line. May see that again. Could let Kubalik start on 1st line with 19 and 88 like happened with Kahun last season and Shaw and Dach if he stays or someone else if not, with 12 and 17 or 20 and 64.
Still leaves Cagguila, Smith, Carpenter for 4th line pisssibility.
Yea, its interesting who works better with who and have two lines going good not one, a little better. Both going.
82-Kabalik get goals with the passing of 12 and 17 and opens even more space for 12 once thats a pick who you want to get beat by.
or 82-Kabalik compliments 19 88 better. What players worked best with 19 88. Shapry and Bicks, so a sniper or a beast. That sounds like Kubalik.
82 could work well with 12 17 but Shawzer brings pop to that line. Might be good might be not what you want to do.
Anyways when were deep by adding a deadline FW, on yrs we do. Then Bolly and Shawzer were LW with 16 and 67/11. That would be 64 and 40 or 15 and 40.
I like Kampf. He has good speed , goes to the dirty areas, responsible defensively and with better wingers (than Kunitz) will show his worth
I like Kampf for all the reasons noted above too but not as 3C unless he shows more of an offensive touch which so far he hasn’t
Maybe with better wingers….? I’d love it if he did develop a bit of a touch around the net but until he does he’s a very good 4C IMO
Looks like summer is here, now. There isint going to be anything to talk about until the training camp and scrimmage games.
We had to take the last 2 yrs, of transition. Now the transition is over and were back. Starting this draft, be a fresh air for the summers again, because we know were going to be good every yr and be fine-tuning the roster each summer. Along with watching the young wave be NHL ready and make the roster quality deep.
Lots of blue chip and Two top 6 skill Players on the way.
Thats Hockey. Bayybayyyyy!
Plenty of interesting and entertaining comments here. I read them everyday so thanks to all for the entertainment.
Question – how will the Seattle expansion draft affect our use of some of the young prospects in the system? We have some with no NHL experience (Dach, etc.) and others with some games under their belts (Nylander, etc.) Surely that will impact how quickly we give some of these guys games on our roster.
Might I pump the brakes on center depth. I hope Strome is the real deal at 2c but let’s remember how small our sample size was. We can hope that Strome fills our our second line but it’s premature to expect it. So while we can debate who is the best 3c option, we might also need another 2c option in case Strome regresses.
Also have we improved our defense? Our PK is certainly better and our forwards are defensively better, but I’m not convinced that our blue line is improved over last year. We gained De Haan but lost Joker. Maatta is not the answer.
Not trying to be a Debbie Downer as I agree that we are better than last year. Probably a playoff team. But I don’t see this team finishing higher than 3rd in the central unless we get some breaks or surprises.
Smitty, Seattle expansion draft takes place in 2021. Teams can protect 7f and 3d and 1 g. Or 8 skaters and 1 goalie.
All first- and second-year NHL players, and all unsigned draft choices, will be exempt from selection.
So Dach, Boqvist, Kurashev,Mitchell, Beaudin…any player without current NHL experience is exempt.
Nylander I think it depends on how many games played this year and next if he’d be eligible. Something like 40 this year, 70 total. So I’d imagine he’d have to be exposed. At least you hope he hits the games played threshold. Jokiharju would have been exposed fwiw.
Depends when you sign your first contract, if you slide in juniors it doesn’t count.
Nylander, Sikura, Strome, Debrincat, Perlini along with Toews and Kane 0lys anybody who played in Rockford are eligible.
Travis i mentioned that awhile ago about Strome, however Colliton said Debrincat and Strome would start year on 2nd line is what i’m going to start the year.
Cagguila and Kampf eligible too
Shaw, Carpenter and Saarela too sorry not with it.
Thats why Jordy said Strome doesnt need higher then 3 or 4 m caphit right now and at like 2 yrs bridge.
Murf is better then Manning.
Haan is better then next guy out.
Defense is way better then first 30 games last yr.
The group of FW is way better, but deeper and deep at every position, so that in its own will make team defense better.
The FW we have now, and having a full deepness, might make team defense better then the defensemen we got themselves.
Yeah ,and Saad is a top 6 forward …at 6 million a year ….you kidding me ..Collition needs to play him in an offensive roll .
A rfa still needs protected, bridge won’t help for expansion draft. Saad, Smith and Kampf all ufas in 21 could be resigned after draft and not need protected because if picked they can sign anywhere a weeks later after dradt on july 1st.
2010 – line combinations shouldn’t be determined based on salary or scoring numbers – they should be based on how players fit together for the best overall effect. If Toews and Kane play together, and I believe Colliton said he prefers that, then the LW on that line should complement Kane’s offensive game and Saad isn’t the ideal LW for that. DCat plays LW with Strome so the only spot open with them is at RW and Saad is a natural LW. Therefore the conclusion is Saad will play LW on the 3rd line. I believe some of the fancy stats show Saad played better on the 3rd line when he was the primary driver than he did on the 1st and 2nd lines. Where Saad shows up on a lineup chart is not important – where he shows up to best help the team win is important.
I should have added this to my previous post.
I think Saad would be a good LW to play on the top line with Toews provided Kane isn’t playing RW on that line. The old Saad-Toews-Hossa line was one of the best lines in the league back in 2014/15. Having Shaw or maybe Kubalik play RW on the top line with Saad and Toews would be fine by me.
Rusty the 40 and 70 game your refer to is what each team is required to be complient. Teams have to make 2 fwds and 1 defenseman available to Seattle who is under contract for the 21-22 season who played 40 games the previous season or 70 games the previous 2. With players like Shaw, Carpenter, and Murphy, Dehaan, that shouldn’t be an issue as more are resigned also. Delia or Lankinen if still around would likely make them complient in goal.
Bicks was what 3rd highest caphit LW in 2013. Well maybe same as 20 then.
It was Saad who had to go to 1st line with 19 81 to stop ans then shut down BOS top line that no East team could handle.
ER, that 20 19 81 line was prob best line in last 10-15 yrs. It shutdown BOS top line in 2013, when no East team could even contain it. 20 19 81 not only shut that line down it still scored more head to head. Now those lines were two of the top lines in the last 10-15 yrs. Maybe the two best.
Thats why I like, when Dach is ready and establised, to see those unless a 19 88 line on wicked.
20 19
77 88
12 17
We need a Prospects Camp thread going.
Having to make players available, exempt, and protected are different. The question is Nylanders status. Let’s assume he plays half a year in Chicago and then a full year next year. Is he exempt?
Wouldn’t Saarela also be exempt? For the same reason Hartman was. They go off of NHL experience. Player needed more than 2 years NHL experience.
“All first- and second-year NHL players, and all unsigned draft choices, will be exempt from selection.”
On that, Saarela would be exempt.
Aurora, isint this prospect thread.
Ian and Ernie know that stuff to a T.
We already had a bunch of Prospect Camp talk but now that we’re in the summer wasteland for hockey – I’m all for more Prospect Camp talk.
Dach, Boqvist, Kurashev, Mitchell, Nylander and Beaudin have gotten plenty of attention, but one guy who wasn’t one of the star players but really impressed me relative to expectations was Brandon Hagel. He had a very good year in the WHL so he was on my radar but he was an over-ager so that almost certainly played a big role in his success last season. The other over-ager in the WHL that was getting a lot of attention was Brett Leason who was taken in the 2nd round by Washington. Leason missed some time but ended up with 89 points in 55 games (1.61 ppg). Hagel ended up with 102 point in 66 games (1.54 ppg). The biggest difference between them is Leason is 6’4″ 200lbs whereas Hagel is only 6’0″ 160 lbs. So I was not expecting a whole lot figuring he would be a nice little player with emphasis on the word “little”.
But, Hagel was pretty impressive. He seemed to be everywhere – always around the puck. With a motor like that and a good enough offensive game to score 102 points, even as an over-ager, maybe he has a chance at an NHL career at some point. Definitely a player to keep an eye on in Rockford.
Rusty anybody who is under contract and has played their first pro season in Ahl or Nhl already is eligible. Only way your exempt is to be a first or 2nd year player. Boqvist for example had a slide year in juniors so doesn’t lose his exempt status. Hartman had a slide year in Rfd so t counted towards his because it was in Ahl. That makes Saarela eligible.
Meant Saarela acquired from Canes in De haan deal not one just drafted.
Nylander is definitely eligible for expansi9n draft and a chouce on whether to protect him or not needs to be made.
Rusty if you reember the 3 players the Blackhawks protected who didn’t require it from their contract clauses in 2017 were Hartman, Panik and Jurco. Panarin was exempt on 2 year rule because Ahl and Nhl only pro leagues that count against eligibility.
Ebony…you are right ..Hagel and Johnson where on the same team and are really good players who can be a surprise in a few months or years ..
Hope Hagel gain a 15-20 pounds .. then he would be a good test in Rockford.
Jonhson was Captain for the Rebel and he is a warrior and might be another surprise .
Wish i could see a ordinary prospect make the team and stay a Hawks . A kind of Patrick Sharp …who was a real steal from Phil…he was at the time a ordinary prospect who became a HUGE part of the 3 Stanley cup
July is the month to dream about surprise prospect. ?
Blackhawks will have 29 fwds under contract if Perlini signs, so 15 or 16 will start year in minors. Rtd has at least 6 fwds under contract for next season to compete too.
14 D under contract with 4 or 5 more under Ahl contract.
4 G under contract 2 under Ahl deals.
14 unsigned fwd prospects, 7 in Europe, 5 in Ncaa and 2 in Rfd under Ahl deal.
8 unsigned D prospects, 4 in Ncaa, 2 in Europe, 1 in Chl and 1 under Ahl deal Rfd
4 unsigned goalie prospects, 2 in Europe ( 1 unsigned as yet) 1 on Chl, and 1 Ushl ? still unsettled for certain.
Not all Ahl contracts considered prospects.
Starrett and Olofsson rights expire August 15th not included.
Ncaa
Wise F, Barrett F, Teply F, Foo F, Slavin F, Mitchell D, Vlassic D, Shea D, Ess D,
Europe
Altybarmakyan F, Shalunov F, Kayumov F,
Nordgren F, From F, Saarela F, Ejdsell F, Galvas D, Laavainen D, Peeters G, Nalimov G (unsigned).
Chl/
Moberg D, Gravel G,
Ushl
? Basse G still not 100% certain
Ahl with Rfd
Ramsey F, Coughlin F, Ryczek G
There’s been talk about Mitchell going back to NCAA when perhaps he’s ready to even play in the NHL and people wondering if this is best for his development
Remember Toews went back to North Dakota for another year (albeit only his second while for Mitchell it’s his third) when he also probably was ready for the NHL and it sure didn’t hurt his development
Of course I’m not comparing them as hockey players but just their circumstances and Toews was younger – being just 18 his second year at ND
Wrap i think Denver lured Mitchell back with chance to captain and quarterback a possible run for the Ncaa title. At that time his prospects in Chicago looked bleak for next season with Jokiharju looking ready to step in and Boqvist hopeful of maybe doing the same.
He figured at that point it would be a better year in Denver and committed, to his credit he is sticking with his committments.
@Wrap: Mitchell has been quoted a number of times saying he wants to be a difference maker every shift (or words to that effect). He has a good attitude. I saw him a bit last year – mostly WJC and NCAA playoffs. Based on what I saw he still has a long way to go to reach that goal. He competes and is positionally sound, but he doesn’t stick out and I think he has a ways to go before he is a consistent catalyst on offense. He’s light too. I don’t know who’s saying he’s ready, but I don’t see it. I think another year in Denver is exactly what he needs.
Jordy it was Bowman and Colliton who said they feel he is ready now, but stand by his decision.
Ian, without guessing reading thinking, would Joker been protected. If hes was and Nylander isint. Interesting.
Also pretty dang smart to be able to get good players from Euro when the, buy your championship teams, are stealing established NHL players from teams that have paid their dues for decade or longer. That Bowman and crew are wise to scout and get because our Organization is worthy, good players that are protected from the buy your championship teams auctions.
Ian, the many posts you do on rules and team and organization roster stuff is really valuable to see and know.
We do have a good amount of good players, maybe, coming from college now. Wise Barrett Slavin Mitchell Vlassic.
Wrap, Bowman made a good point that Mitch would be even moar ready in a yr then he is now. Hes not the kind of player Vassey or others was. Hes better.
We do not need Mitch this yr. It makes him a better player and develope better then hes doing the better thing way.
Wheres that goalie who is really good in World Juniors, like Panarin was at World Juniors. Hes Finland league?
We do not need Mitch this yr. It makes him a better player and develope better then hes doing the better thing way.
Wheres that goalie who is really good in World Championships, like Panarin was at World Championships. Hes Finland league?
Kevin Lankinen…should be no 2 in rockford or maybe with the Hawks later in the 19-20. since 16 he has an average under 2.25 with a .920 in more then 110 games include 20 games in Rockford and another 20 games internat.
But still a 24 y o kid.
Don’t get this one. Toronto acquires Clarkson’s 5.25 mil and a 2020 fourth from Vegas for Sparks?
I’m guessing something like they LTIR Clarkson so they can go over the cap to sign Marner…that’s my best guess
Crafty move by Toronto. All they have to do to get under the cap is send sent Travis Dermott to the AHL, then put Clarkson and Horton on LTIR on Day#1 of the season and they would have over $10M of LTIR cap space to sign Marner.
Any of those Russian forwards drafted by Bowman ever make it to North America and the NHL? Doubt it.
Wow been a wk since 15 for 15 trade.
Dog days of summer for sure when the last piece appears to be what Perlini comes in at.
If Caggiula makes $1.5, Perlini and his agent must asking for at least that based on his goals scored at the NHL level. The thing is Perlini has no leverage. Stan can let him sit until training camp. Sikura, Nylander and Kubalik will be chomping at the bit to be on the wing with Strome and D-Cat.
Perlini would be wise to take a one year deal and bet on himself. He has skill, skating and a tremendous shot. If he ups his goals from the 14 to 17 he has scored per season in the NHL, to 20 or so, he will get a nice contract in the summer of 2020.
Thats funny dog days of 82 games and summer are exact 6 mths apart.
Leafs can use off season ltir on both Clarkson and Horton, no probability to return and exceed cap +10% limit by amount of ltir. So sign Marner this summer and build a roster as close to 92.05m as possible for opening day.
Craig seems like that is what Bowman wants from Perlini. Giving him too much makes things too tight to fit right.
Wondering if a team has the ability or stones to give Marner an offer sheet at 12m plus and have Toronto over a barrel needing to match it in 7 days. Columbus? Could save some face with the fans.
12 million+ per and give up 4 first rounders? That would be beyond big stones.
McDavid at 20 yes, can’t think of another player.
And does Columbus actually have draft picks left?
@Ian – here’s a question
LTIR is a complicated tool – what I’m not clear about is whether a team can accrue cap space with players on LTIR (in this case Horton and Clarkson) while operating above the general cap limit
Do you know how that works?
No Wrap not while using ltir cap space. They do a formula which basically team cap with ltir minus the player on ltir hit. That is number you have to be below to acrue space.
Say cap is 81.5m team has a 5m ltir with cap hit of 86m allowed to have up to 86.5m with extra 5m. 86 -5 =81 m accrueable limit. Which for rest of season the team wouldn t accrue cap space if over 81 m in that formula. The 81.5m no longer applies. So usually teams don’t but can if ltir used temporarily. Pretty sure thats same regardless when ltir used. So actually using Dehaan ltir space ould be tricky i guess.
Meant to say 81,5 m ceiling no longer applies as long ltir used
Is this why do you think that Vegas traded Clarkson’s contract? – so that they didn’t get stuck not being able to accrue cap space
Otherwise why would Vegas not use Clarkson on LTIR themselves to sign Gusev
It’s the Vegas end of the transaction that I haven’t quite figured out but this is probably the answer
If a team say Vegas can’t accrue cap space they’re not going to have room to add at the TDL unless they trade a roster player or two – amirite? or even enough room to bring people up from minors if someone is injured and only on IR not LTIR
If this is all true then are the Leafs really boxing themselves in regarding in season moves?
Remember when LTIR couldn’t be used until the season started?
Vegas wanted a better backup goalie and to shed dollars. Not just cap space as that’s essentially immaterial. Clarkson’s contract is insured. But they still have to pay the insurance on it and it’s incredibly expensive. Just trimming the bottom line and getting a backup goalie.
“The LTIR relief pools are calculated as follows:
AAV of LTIR player is $5M
Cap space = $69M – $68M = $1M
ACSL = $69M – $1M = $68M
LTIR relief:
Base salary relief pool: $3M
Performance bonus pool: $2M
Once the team operates above $68M, they have $3M in salary relief, and $2M in performance bonus relief pools. ”
“Once the team exceeds their ACSL, they start to use their relief pools. They can exceed the upper limit until they have exhausted the necessary relief pools. A rough estimation is as follows:
Exceed value = ACSL + salary relief pool – league upper limit
*It is notable that this estimation does not take into account the performance bonus pool: if the team were to recall a player with performance bonuses and did not have a suitable amount of space in their performance bonus relief pool, they would have to use their salary relief pool to make up the difference. An example is presented below.
Can LTIR be used in the off-season?
Yes, LTIR can be used in the off-season while the 10% off-season cushion is active. LTIR in the off-season is calculated using the basic equation outlined above, which permits a team to exceed the off-season salary cap. To use off-season LTIR the team must provide doctors proof that the player in question will continue to be injured at the beginning of the regular season for 10 NHL games and 24 calendar days.
At the start of the season the teams LTIR relief & ACSL is recalculated when the 10% cushion is removed.”
I think it’s best not to ponder these things and just be thankful it’s not really a Hawks issue.
Wrap no ltir is better than having restrictions associated with it, so VGK like you said can operate like other teams accrue and add at tdl. Leafs in a bind feel they have some flexiblity next year and saw a one year way out with ltir, it appears and sacrificed the tdl this year to get Marner done.
Also Leafs have no performance bonuses that create big overages because ltir doesn’t cover them, so that allows them to go this route this year. Every other year Leafs caphit was low enough that the ltir didn’t put them over the ceiling and .bonuses were ok.
Wrap, yea thats why people always say here need to save a little or have a little in cap space during yr so we can bank space. TOR would be doing that to themselves.
Thanks Ian and Rusty – it’s enough to make your head spin
No wonder GMs have full time capologists
Here’s a good explanation of the trade from both the TOR and VGK POV
https://theathletic.com/1093195/2019/07/23/mirtle-making-sense-of-the-bizarre-trade-that-sent-david-clarkson-back-to-the-maple-leafs/
Can’t read it Wrap, don’t subscribe.
Yikes Sam Bennett got $5Million for 2 years in Calgary. Perlini has similar numbers and was in the same draft class. If Perlini’s agent Is asking for that type of money, I think Stan tries to wait him out until training camp then force Perlini to make a decision:either accept a one year “prove it” deal for $1.5 Million or sit at home.
Also, I just read the Hockey News analysis of every team’s draft. Wow. What a good read on the importance of the draft and building a base of talent. Teams like Columbus, San Jose and the Islanders went home with such slim pickings you wonder how their scouts felt about not being able to select guys in the top 100. Brutal.
As A rabid Hawk fan, I love the way our scouting staff hunts talent, talent, talent.
Dach = 1st line Center.
Vlasic =2nd pair steady defenseman.
Boqvist=Power Play QB, 50 point defenseman.
Beaudin = cerebral puck mover with good edges.
Mitchell=#2 defenseman. 35 to 40 point defenseman who will likely defend well.
Kurashev = 1st round talent. Great hands. Tremendous edges on his skates.
Barratt= great mix of hard work, desire and skill.
Those guys along with depth players who almost certainly will play in the NHL like Gilbert and Lucas Carlsson show why drafting is soooooo important.
Thankfully Stan gets that !
I would have liked to have 5 really good Defensemen, but
Now that I see what were doing, I like getting Dach better.
Maybe why we trade Buckaroo, with Mitch being as good or better then him and Vlassic is like same as Buckaroo.
Mitch is a #2.
Man these guy cant get her fast enough. Were loaded, again.
Mo just noticed your comment about Jokiharju, he was definitely pegged as being protected. Thats one thing i noticed, all the acqusitions are not the type of player who stands out today anyways as somebody you need to find a way to protect.
Craig agree scouts are finding decent talent, they just gotta find a way to convince Bowman to keep it and not trade them.
Meant this summers acquisitions.
Ian did you notice Strome as a candidate for regression this year in Tulloch’s athletic article? Hawks shot 12.5% 5v5 with him on the ice. Unsustainable.
He’s gonna regress unless he drives possession better. So will Dcat.
Andrew Shaw was number 1 on the list. Lehner too. Not good. Not good at all.
No i don’t subscribe to Athletic, i noticed though his higher than normal shooting%, the fact he joined his best friend on a new team with boyhood idols on pp. Makes being a point a game guy tough to repeat.
Noticed however he has been doing an off season program with Blackhawks trainers to improve his overall game. So if he improves his defensive support and possession nos and helps reduce high danger scoring chances against that can offset a dip in offense and makes me less concerned about his impact ability.
Agree. Also happy Stan hasn’t extended either Strome or Dcat after they posted unsustainable numbers last year. See if they can drive possession for a full year before paying them big boy bucks.
Also happy with Lehner’s term of 1 year.
Ian – one thing mentioned in Mirtle’s piece from the Vegas end was that a team can’t use LTIR for bonuses – any bonuses achieved while the team is using LTIR above the cap go onto next year’s cap
Vegas wanted to sign Engelland (which they immediately did) to a performance laden contract and didn’t want those bonuses payable next year (if he achieves them) which they would have been if they had LTIRed Clarkson this year
So they traded Clarkson’s contract
I’m going to go out on a limb and say Hagel and Versteeg make the team
Regardless what the guy writing the “regression” article states – it’s just his guess. That said, I think it’s likely all the Hawks’ top scorers score less next season because they all had career best scoring numbers. Kane, Toews, Cat, Strome and Gus will probably not match their 2018/19 numbers, maybe the exception is Strome who didn’t play the whole season with the Hawks so I wouldn’t be surprised if the ppg he had in the 58 games he played with the Hawks was a little lower but his total points scored was a little more because he will probably play 20+ more games with the Hawks this season than he did last season.
The biggest variable will probably be the PP. Most of the top scorers in the league score a huge chunk of their points on the PP – so if the PP is good those 5 players will not regress too much, if at all, but if the PP regresses than almost certainly those 5 player’s scoring will regress accordingly.
Apparently Panarin had some things to say about Russia’s goal scoring sensation and head honcho Vladimir Vladimirovich. He’s got some balls.
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/what-will-be-the-backlash-from-panarins-unprecedented-putin-comments
Good point on contracts for 12 and 17.
I thinking Strome could sustain and have a higher shooting % every yr because of this. In the highlights of 12 and 17 in juniors Strome and 12 scored a lot of goal in close, especially Strome. He makes those in tight passes around the net area and gets more goals from there then elsewhere. So based on that and prob doesnt take as many shots from other areas. thats why hi shooting % is higher like that?
12 and 65 sure they prob shoot from all different areas. I mena sometimes Debrincat takes shot from places, your thinking huh, and then he scores. and your thinking yeah. Its sort of like the wizardry that Teuvo scored goals like that, from odd places and times, goalies are not ever seeing shot from there and then.
ER, yea just because 19 18 and other who had top 5 career stats, do not score as many points on yrs coming up doesnt mean that were not going to be as good. Were actually going to be better, a lot better. We have to remember those guys did those stat last yr, with half a roster.
This yr we have a full roster. 21 season we have more quality deepness, even better.
Stick taps for the Bread Man.
Disagree ER. The author of the article makes his predictions based on statistics. In particular, statistics that may have high variance over an 82 game sample size but eventually regress to the mean over multiple seasons. E.g. shooting pct and save pct.
That’s the beauty of stats. Doesn’t matter who the author is. I’m a professional statistician. This is my field. The guy is right.
Wrrap yeah kind of figured VGK had some bonuses pending but wasn’t sure, when mentioning Leafs had none and allowed them to use ltir route easier.
Wonder how Bowman will deal with Blackhawks bonus overage potential. Be close to 3m with Debrincat and Strome. Dach and Boqvist could add over 3.5m more of they remain on roster. Might have an influence on their chances of sticking.
Not quite as much as i said there, Strome and Debrincat about 2.5 m and Dach doubles it to 5m and Boqvist 0.85m makes it roughly 5.85m possible performance bonuses available that may need addressed.
I wonder how achievable Strome’s bonus are? I gotta feeling they’re going to be hard for him to attain
DCat doesn’t have much in the way of bonuses
Maybe Dach’s include winning the Calder or leading rookie scoring or both?
I agree it will be a problem if they all max out but the chances of that would be pretty slim – more likely the Hawks incur 50% or less of those bonuses
EB agree and said that too the potential for teams offense to drop off is there, just that the circumstances around Stromes season give even more than potential for his dropoff to occur and possibly a bigger one.
Ian, 5.85 is that. What is our max so we donot have any left overs.
Mo 6.115 is 7.5% of the cap ceiling, which is what is allowable to be pushed out for bonuses and not count against daily caphit.
Yea can you list the bonuses of each player and the max for the team, so we have no left overs. The 21 season is important to have no player bonuses from the past. Thats the yr we need to bank space. We can this yr but we have the depth in every position to not need to add at deadline. After 12 and 17 and other we might not have the depth we ant and will add at deadline every yr starting with 21 season.
Do we have any left overs going into this season. Thanks.
No there was no carry over from last season, enough capspace left to absorb them.
Mo the ones that could impact tge roster most are.
Dach 2.5m
Strome 2.475m
Debrincat $32,500
Boqvist and Nylander $850,000 each
Kubalik $182,500
Saarela $87,500
Wetin $132,500
Others on elcs run from $107,000 to $132,500.
If more than 6.115m in potential performance bonuses carried on roster it starts to count against daily cap and there won’t be room to do that.
Kubalik shoukd be $850,000
So basically if Strome, Debrincat, Boqvist, Kubalik, Dach and Nylander are on oening night roster, thats just over 7.55m in performance bonuses so be close to an extra 1.5m over the 6.115m limit that would need to be included daily caphit, not likely to happen.
So we can do that, ahve the 7.6 over, but it will only count against cap, if the get those bonuses or counts no matter what.
We do not want left overs after this 82 games for 21 season.
Theres 6.115m is pushed out and still needs addressed before next July 1st though or it carries into next year.
Travis, I understand statistical regression to the mean and acknowledge it is a legitimate metric – but it’s not purely a mathematical formula because there are variants that are as much a guess as anything else. And yes, those variants are smoothed out over a period of time but the period of time is not equal for all players, nor are the variables such as injuries, line mates, etc. It is not an exact science and his picking out of players with the most probability to regress does not take into account the things he doesn’t know because there isn’t a history to draw upon – such as Shaw possibly playing with Toews and Kane and on the PP versus playing on the 3rd line with no PP time. He’s guessing what will happen with how Shaw is used by his new team and then applying statistical projection. He’ll probably get some right and some wrong – but there is guess work involved.
Thinking about lines again and what seems to have the right kind of pop and chemistry I like this. It has good flow.
65 19 88
12 17 82
20 77 91
64 15 40
Had the Kabalik number, its 8 not 82.
Had Lehner and Carpenter right. With Carpenter being cool and ok with Lehner doing 40 and going old school with 22. Mayers Jammer 4th line with style.
Yikes. Evan Rodriguez got $2 Million in Buffalo, one day after Sam Bennett got $2.5.
Perlini does not have the leverage they did when it comes to going to arbitration. Unfortunately their stats are similar which means Perlini’s agent has to asking for a contract in that range.
Arbitration is huge leverage which Perlini doesn’t have
He either signs or doesn’t play which wouldn’t be good for his career – he may have to settle for a 1 year say between 1.5 and 1.75
Not worried – the Hawks have lots of options if he doesn’t want to play
Player numbers announced:
#6 Maatta
#8 Kubalik
#15 Smith
#22 Carpenter
#40 Lehner
#44 de Haan
#65 Shaw
#92 Nylander
Perlini shouldnt whine or ? over .250 .500, when he can be on a top 10 team and be a complimentor. That would help him and team. When was the last time a player wnated more then they were worth. Stats shouldnt declare caphit. Its the overall play of the player, not just the stats. We usually sign guys to whats fair, so this to me seems like he didnt want to sign what was fair to team and wanted stats caphit.
That smells Rangers to me. Hayes.
ER, I had 40 22 right. Thought Kabalik would do 82, he took 8.
Sign Perlini. Nylander might be another lazy player who has been a bust so far. His worth ethic is suspect to say the least.
If 77 and 92 arnt ready for this 82 games then sure sign 11.
Anybody else ready for another trade.
When we had Breadman AA Kaner together we had a sniper, a playmaker and net front presences. So why not a line 8-19-88
12-17-20
91-77-65
22-15-92/64
Thinking putting Nylander with on the 4th line might teach him to work for his goals.
Guess no. 28 nit off limits yet, Saarela going to wear it i guess. Too bad.
Mo like your lines, to start season though wouldn’t be surprised to see Kubalik and Nylander in Rfd, has stated he wouldn’t use his European clause. That way you can stay under bonus limit if Dach gets a few game tryout and Boqvist up for Dehaan, who could be back quick or miss 20 to 25 games depending on his recovery.
When one if them goes down or back to juniors, Kubalik recalled. Could see for last 3 fwds at start Dach, Quenneville Sikura or maybe Saarela caphits play a part. If Dach stays one of the others likely moved to make room for Kubalik, Hard to see Perlini caphit working over the long term this season, with current roster as it looks.
To start
91 19 88
12 17 65
20 77 95/28
15 64 22
47
2 56
Bo/68 7
6 5
63 44 ir/ltir?
Putting Nylander on the fourth line would be totally senseless.
Twenty one year old kids need to play, develope their skills and gain confidence.
If Nylander is not going to get playing time in Chicago I’m sure he will get sent to Rockford to get lots of ice time and develop his game.
Yea that makes sense. Thats what I am seeing, 65 on 1st or 2nd and bringing pop. I mean more pace and making space not hitting pop.
Not sure why 20 19 88 didnt play that many games last yr, prob because we needed a checking line and only had 1 maybe 2 kindof players like that. Now we have 4 specific checking line kind of players. Would that have 20 19 88 then. or by having 20 with those 4 thats 5 of 6 right there for two way and checking line.
Just being deep and at each position is so key. FULL roster. Like Colitian said we didnt have guys who wanted to PK last yr. Now we are deep in that position.
Colitan also said it will be hard to make roster, so Nylander yea but Kubalik in Rockford is ineresting. I think Kubalik could be really good, this yr.
Perlini skates fast and can shoot. He does nothing else. He has size, but doesn’t use it. Hes not hockey smart. Not a playmaker. Has less Defensive acumen than Kane. He’s useful yes. But not in the bottom 6. And not for 2m.
Mo, it’s not that i don’t think he will be good, just that if Strome, Dach on opening night lineup, after looking at bonus room onky one of Kubalik, Boqvist and Nylander fit under the limit, with no capspace to absorb the rest. If Dach goes to juniors room for rest is there, Nylander could very well be a late season or next year project anyways. Boqvist fills in for Dehaan and Kubalik gets a short adjustment period in Rfd. When time is right he is recalled, with bonus room quite likely mostly resolvcd at that point. Imagine if Kahun another 2.8m in potential bonus to account for was still on roster, be a real nightmare.
Ian – are you saying there’s a cap on how much bonus $ you can carry on the roster?
Wrap after it gets over 6.115 m or 7.5% of cap it must be counted against caphit and can’t be pushed out. So 12, 17 and 77 arecroughly 5m, actually just slighly over. Kubalik, Boqvist, Nylander 0.85m each. So with 12 and 17 givens, 2 of the last 3 with Dach would be 6.7m or another $600,000 against cap with very little wiggle room. May not want to do it. As season goes on and bonuses may not be achievable, those numbers should drop but to start season they’re all achievable.
Yea I knew know, just was saying I thibnk 8 is going to be good player.
Its good that your posting this stuff with the bonuses because most people do not realize that stuff and it does have a lot to do with certain moves.
Ian – thanks for being the expert on these rules. I wasn’t aware of the details yet it appears they will impact the final roster to start the year.
It was good to trade Kahun for those reasons and because we got Kubalik. Like you want to keep more of the draft picks we have traded, I want to keep 8 and not keep on trading so many Euro players. At least keep 8 if hes really good. The others I understand.
The other possibility is Boqvist starts year in Rfd with and Koekkoek and Dahlstrom fill the Defense role and one of Kubalik or Nylander starts out on Blackhawks roster, if Dach stays for a few games or more.
Dach should only be on the opening night roster if he clearly blows everyone away in preseason.
Boqvist should at least start in Rockford. He’s not even 19 yet and his defensive game needs refining. Nothing wrong with spending the year in Rockford where they wouldn’t have a single right shot D without him. Spend the year there, let the contract slide. Let Koekkoek fill in for DeHaan. Why else have Dahlstrom and Koekkoek if you’re not going to use them when you need them.
8-19-88
12-17-20
91-15-65
Wedin-22-64
2-56
6-5
44-7
68-63
Dach is that good so I see him playing up to 9 or more. Which means he would be here for first 10 games about. These other guys could get a couple games right after that or duing that to and Dach doesnt stay more then a couple or 9 or more. Like you said Kabalik should be good and might not start until after the first 5-10 games because of thsese guys. I would say Dach only, then 8 is ahead of the others.
Dach likely gets a few games at least, may be less than 10 but still be there opening night unless he really looks out of place, which is doubtful.
If you have a better defenseman available in Boqvist obviously thats why you would use him if Dehaan out a bit. He was good enough that they considered him for a 9 game stint last season so good chance he can be better than Koekkoek or Dahlstrom out of training camp. He possibly may go back afterwards but not a given.
Good points by both you guys.
I think I read 64 can only play center, not as good at wing, where 40 is good at RW.
Not sure about 20 on RW, just not sure not that he cant be good there. Otherwise I like 8 there. 12 17 8
So why did the Hawks apparently talk to London about turning Boqvist into a forward?
Ian – so if I understand you correctly the maximum potential bonus for any player is the number used when calculating if a team’s combined bonuses are above 7.5% of the cap or not
So if that’s true why would that number for combined maximum bonuses come down as the season progresses as you suggest? Does the league look at what bonuses are achievable and what aren’t and then adjust the team’s combined maximum bonuses number?
Rusty – I hadn’t heard that about Boqvist possibly being a FW at London
I saw him play for London and I thought he was underrated defensively – he can still be outmuscled of course (although that will improve) but he’s smart and quick with a good stick – not unlike the way Keith plays defence
I read something about Boqvist playing forward but I think it was just a question Hunter of someone in London posed to the Hawks like – “hey, did you ever consider converting Boqvist to forward?” and the answer was a quick “no”. I got the sense it was more about his offensive prowess than his defensive deficiency. I think if there is any truth that – they made the right decision and the improvement he made defensively throughout the season supports that decision. Not great defensively yet but he improved and given the circumstances he did about as well as can be expected.
I think it means you just have to cover it. Once certain player bonuses cannot be reached, then that overall number goes down and your good. We could be over the 6.1 during the 82 games but when we are it counts agasint cap, and then theres less to bank space. And if any left over after 82 games it goes on 21 season cap and were not doing that. That is the first yr, if not this yr, were adding a good player at deadline again.
So its a matter of not being over 6.1 m in the first part of season, then once were cleared of some of the bonuses we can have different players on the 23man, when it doesnt add up to more then 6.1 m. It would be alright if were a hair over this season for part of season, just at 82 games do not have any left overs so were going forward for using full salary cap to stack roster, again.
Bowman always stacks roster when we can and when were deep and then were quality deep. Bowman and crew do what we have to, pay our dues, all at once like after 2010 and 2015 or 2016 because its the best way to reload and because we have to. Like trading Shaw and other because of cap.
Speaking of Shawzer, sure some players are imjury prone, more, then others but who Fukking cares.
Shawzer brings back the swagger we had during those yrs. We have that Swagger again now.
With defensemen being FW unless its a player like Buff that has net front presense and size in that kind of way. Its better to have sick skills from the defensemens position because its not normal for players in those spots to make plays like that. Its unique and rare and only so many can do it. When you have guys like Karrelson and Gustafsson you use that advantage, not put the player in a spot where hes only an equal to other that normally play that position.
PP yea.
From a Charlie Roumeliotis story in December. By the context it would appear London was the ones posing the question not the Hawks.
“There have been conversations between London and Chicago about whether Boqvist may be better suited as a forward, according to a source, because of his forward-like instincts and defensive inefficiencies but the Blackhawks view him as a defenseman and believe he can be a franchise-changer on….”
Mo your right on there with bonuses, as season goes getting under the limit should become less if an issue as a bonus tha5 can’t be earned isn’t considered potential caphit at end of season.
Rusty glad you posted that didn’t think Blackhawks wanted to make him a forward, maybe Hunter trying clear
a logjam on blueline for London or something too.
Agree less skilled defenseman who are physical presences adapt to winger easier than skilled ones changing there view of the play, it seems more often
When I saw Boquist play live for London it was clear that Hunter didn’t trust him on the D end but based on an admittedly small sample of one game I didn’t see it that way
In fact in the game I saw (playoff game vs. Guelph) once London took the lead early in the 2nd Hunter cut Boquist’s minutes way down and double shifted Bouchard (Boquist’s regular D partner)
This is where the game turns in Guelph’s favour IMO – I thought Boquist was playing well at both ends (clearly driving play offensively and doing an perfectly adequate job when he had to play defence) Bouchard was not playing any better D than Boquist and without Boq on the ice as his partner to drive play Guelph just kept coming
Once Guelph had a two goal lead Hunter started playing Boquist more again but the damage had been done – Guelph ended up winning that game and then the series in the next game
At the time I thought Boquist had fallen victim to a stereotype about what makes a good D man – a big brawny type like Bouchard but it didn’t play out that way
Just looked up Boquist’s birthday to remind myself and it’s Aug. 15 – he’s still only 18! Him and Dach just dominated the prospect camp both at the age of 18
In fact he’s only 5 months older than Dach and like Dach he’s threatening to make the CHI roster this year and whether he does or not hopefully will get some NHL games this year (as hopefully Dach does too)
I’m excited for the future with these two players
Yep. Boqvist was a month from being a 2019 draft eligible player. No reason to rush him.
Wrap, you wonder if the Hawks saw the same thing you did. With that and what sounds like a coach or management that at least wanted him to move to forward and a coach that doesn’t trust him (unless he was playing hurt). Perhaps that seats there decision if there ever was a question to where he plays. After London’s season was over it sounded like going back was a legitimate option. Not anymore.
Yea we were saying that last yr, that Bo is like Teuvo. Hes really a 19 draft player. So we really got two top 6 skill players. For all the complaining about roster not being good, should have signed this guy and that guy as ufa in summer last two summers and we could have signed this guy and that guy and that would have made a difference, nah.
What will make a difference is having these two elite players and not Skinner and whoelse with crazy caphits. These guys will be that good for elcs for 3 yrs.
I would strongly doubt Hawks management would draft a guy (Boqvist) and within a matter of months entertain converting him to forward. Maybe others would but surely the org that scouted and drafted him would be a little more firm in its conviction.
As well, how often is that actually done (let alone successfully) on players that are already drafted. Sure sometimes between wings and centers but seldom between defense and forward. I’m no seeing it with Boqvist (and Stan was actually quoted at length recently about how he needs to use his stick and positioning to be an effective defender so it seems he has a clear picture of where Boqvist is going).
It seemed to be Boqvist’s desire to turn pro that was the reason on him not going back to London. As Q used to say we’re in the business of winning here. This definitely seems to be win and get in playoffs year for sure. So i don’t believe that if Boqvist is available and the concensus is they have a better chance of winning with him in the lineup if Dehaan out awhile it will happen. Risking missing playoffs over it be quite a gamble.
If choices are needed for bonus room, maybe having a European fwd on roster who will need some adjustment will be considered more beneficial, or maybe Nylander surprises and he stays.
I am sure 77 and 27 are going to get 2 games. 77 number is 9 and 27 number is 41.
Dach is close to ready at training camp, how much would he benefit by playing the 82 games more then if he was juniors for season then is more ready/better in spring. Hes more important for spring and on then these games 10-82.
Was looking at our additions vs our subtractions that NHL Tonight showed and came up with wins losses or ties from mpov.
Carpenter vs Kahun even maybe a loss
De Haan vs Joki loss
Lehner vs Ward win
Maatta vs Forsling win
Nylander vs Kruger win
Quenneville vs Kunitz win
Shaw vs Hayden win
Smith vs AA even
Like what Tazer said, going to push him and see what hes got. The look in his eyes hes ready at training camp, he stays.
Mo thats where Colliton has to earn his stripes, he’s got his players, the core guys saying they are buying into his system. Now a good coach lights that fire in his group, like Berube with Blues, Sullivan a couoke of years ago with Pens.
Last years 2nd half improvement was expected and talked about the softer schedule after December before Q fired so that played a big part too. Players have a responsibility but winning coaches can light a fire in their teams and thats something i’m looking for this year.
Roman, when I did that a wk ago this is how I see the side by side compare. Night and Day. I would say Buckaroo mean of the Four Horsemen plus Vlassic, Vlassic takes his spot as a Horsemen. So we still have Four plus Nylander.
MORRISON
July 20, 2019 at 9:41 pm
Bowman did as good as any one could this draft summer and last yr around game 30 roster adjustments.
Manning Cagiluga
Rutta KoKo
Schmaltz Strome
+ Perlini
Forsling Maata
Knutz Shaw
Krugs Carpenter
Animov Smith
+ Lehner
From a yr ago.
I wouldnt put Haan down like that. Hes a much better Defensemen then Buckaroo is now and for some yrs coming. In 5-10 yrs sure Buckaroo is better then him, but Vlassic is ready soon enough and prob better Defensemen then him. What ever way people look at it, we have a Full roster again.
Thats what it takes to win and being good cap wise for a few yrs to add add add add add quality deep.
The guys at the convention are stoaked about having two good established and experienced, in the right way, DEF Defensemen. Which gives of 4 or 5 instead of the 2? we had last yr.
People think the core scored that much, cant contain regerssion to the mean. So what. Thats with half a roster. With a full roster having the deepness will make more then regression gap and then some.
Yea we mentioned, you and me, about the buulshtt sch last yr during the 1st 40 games and the 2nd 40 games was a normal sch. The sch. makers try to screw us every yr with crazy sections of the sch., not new. So last yr that was the area of 82 games like that. I do think however that it wasnt mostly the sch. It to me was 25 or 50% of it. The bulk of why we played as good as we really were, 26-15 the 2nd 40 games is because of the roster adjustments around game 30.
Manning Rutta Schmaltz Knutz
Cagiluga Dals Murf Strome Perlini
Thats a huge difference, but mainly was going from 1/2 a roster to 3/4 roster made us a -13 (6-2-2 to 9 under overall at game 30) to +5 and tied for 7 and 8 seed with 10 or so games to go. You just cant epect any team to go 17-2 the last 20 games and we almost did, I think we start that like 12-2, thats just impossible. Unless your TB with deepest roster, last yr, and play in weak division like they do (3 of bottom 10 teams in league to pad stats).
Now were going from a 3/4 roster to a 4/4 FULL roster. This will be night and day. Not totally 82 record wise, we still play in hardest division. I said that wks ago it was since before realignment and Bowman said it at convention for last 10 yrs at least and still is. So when you thin about it 7th place in central is like 7th seed in East conference, per say.
You really could take top 7 teams in East and they would be equal, per say, to the 7 teams in central. Extremely much more difficult to make playoffs in central then any other division.
Anyways we know this stuff. Whats exciting is that we know we have a Full roster again and the Calvary is coming, again. The young wave is coming. Thats why BOS is good again, there 5 good young players. We have 6 and only one of them, 12, has played so far. Just wait until they are ready.
Playing more yrs in college and two being top 6 skill players. They could be that good right out of the gates. Not banking on it but the skill is there and with an already deep roster and Full roster to just add to, theres no pressure on having to carry. Just be stacked and keep good players coming in.
For the last two yrs of transition, it was worth it because now were goind to be deeper and keep on getting better as these top 6 skill and the blue chip Horsemen we have coming. It was worth the wait, to be better for the 5-10 yrs coming, then eggs in the last 2 yrs when we couldnt load up as much.
I know it was Tazer and Burr. Seeing Tazer and Shazer together got me thinking of dumb and dumber. They get those tuxes out of the cedar chests.
https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s–xj6RAx4h–/c_fit,f_auto,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/18j5hp0t167cxjpg.jpg
Kubalik and Nylander are question marks. Perlini is a safe bet to play for now and if he plays for a contract knowing others are pushing for a roster position, maybe he turns it around. He has the tools to play a third round role or spot a few shifts in the top six. I rather see him than Sikura, hands down.
Everybody seems to be ignoring the concept of “Harder to play against.” I liked Anisimov, but so did our opponents. “Please,” “thank you,” “excuse me,” “yes, sir.” Zach Smith on the other hand? Good faceoff guy, will score a dozen goals – might score 15 to 20 if you pair him with offensive players … hits 130 people a year, blocks shots, kills penalties, etc., and, oh yeah. If one of our players gets checked one nonasecond after the whistle or 1% rougher than needbe … that culprit becomes Zach’s punching bag for the next 30 to 60 seconds. Smith will even tell officials to delay dropping the puck so he can shift over and line up with whoever is bullying our players. I’ve seen him send Matt Bradley to the locker room with a need for severe stitches. He’s like a modern day Keith Magnuson. He also does community work exhaustively. Good man. Great teammate. At this point in their careers and considering what the Blackhawks need, Zach is vastly more valuable. I won’t say he can whoop Wilson or Reaves, but he’ll take the bullet so that our stars don’t have to. GOOD PICKUP!
I too want to see more of Perlini; not because I think he’s outstanding or a better option just yet. Instead, if your talent development and talent pipeline strategy is to identify poorly launched 1st rounders and reclaim and rehabilitate them, well, then you need to see it through with Perlini. There’s almost nothing worse in business or anything else than poorly executed strategy. Even bad strategy well executed is significantly better.
So, I say follow-through with the strategy. We’ve seen glimmers and basic cognitive recognition from Perlini at times. His reclamation timeline may be slightly longer and, admittedly, I’m not even sure he’ll even breakthrough. Some won’t, but that’s already baked into the ROI of this sort of strategy. Let’s give him another half-season just to allow the strategy to be fully executed. It’s not a bad one, if you believe your talent development organization is a good one. Dv
Aurora, “There’s almost nothing worse in business or anything else than poorly executed strategy.” – true. The question becomes his “reclamation timeline” and the cost required to extend that timeline. If he were under contract there’s no argument that the glimpses he’s shown would be enough to give him more time. The problem is that based on his “comps” he is due a $2M+ AAV for at least a couple years which could end affecting other areas in the lineup with little or no payback.
I hope Perlini agrees to an under-market “show me” contract and the reclamation project is extended.
I meant to also include that Perlini shouldn’t be shown a blank check to return, either. I do think the Hawks have leverage to get the right deal done. Meaning they should remain patient, not bail on their leverage and push Perlini to acceptance by waiting him out.
Perlini was a through in Bowman held out for to basically to get Strome for Schmaltz done. It was known to bith sides he needed to earn a new contract this summer, did he earn 2 or 3 yrs at 2m aav, not in my eyes, but something closer to 1 m than 2 m for a year certainly.
I’d say one thing worse than a poorly executed strategy is not using your leverage when you have it. The Hawks have leverage over Perlini. Just because Artturi Lehkonen got 2.4×2 doesn’t mean he should. Lehkonen, according to Hockey reference is the most similar active player. Jared McCann is another similar player and his contract pays 1.25×2. Plus/minus is the only category really different, with Perlini really far behind.
http://hkref.com/tiny/NMqYx
The only leverage Perlini has the threat of an offer sheet and I highly doubt that’s happening. What else is he going to do? Not play and not get paid anything all year instead of 1.5. Time to play hardball…for once.
Only real option he would have is to go play in Europe, not sure how much he’d get to go there either.
With time till training camp, neither side must do anything immediately. Waiting for someone to blink is the game. As every person has said here, Stan has leverage and doesn’t really need to sweat it, whereas Perlini has 4 sides closing-in.
Nothing against Perlini and his representation, they’re doing exactly what they’re supposed to do to drive a good deal for themselves. Stan has the leverage and knows it.
Perlini is a question mark. Does he feel like playing or not. He’s inconsistent. I don’t think anyone except Hall65 would miss him. Let’s went Hawks!
Waiting until season starts means pro rating the contract to a full season which could make caphit bigger next year if that happens. So signing before season starts would be better if they are not moving him.
@Ian – maybe that’s Perlini’s game – to wait until the season starts and see if the Hawks flinch for the reason you stated above
I doubt however that this happens – Perlini has to know that this year is critical for him – if he plays hardball with the Hawks they’ll just move on – they have a number of wingers already competing for spots without Perlini who has yet to show he’s the best option amongst them
For the sake of his career he needs to play and play well in the NHL this year
Maybe he would prefer to be traded and is trying force a trade but he runs the risk of just sitting if he’s playing chicken with Stan and I don’t think he can afford either that or to go play in Europe if he really wants an NHL career
Allen, yes it be interesting what line 15 is on. 4th maybe thought of most but if we need a wing or center 3rd line then he could be there.
Wrap, good post on 11.
https://www.secondcityhockey.com/2019/7/27/8930097/nhl-20-ea-sports-video-open-beta-chicago-blackhawks-collar-change-jerseys-2019-20-nhl-season
This is the sweater update?
The old look (no white collar), the current look (white collar around almost whole neck), and now the proposed new look (while collar around back) – in all three cases the Hawks have the best jersey in sports … so how much does the collar really matter? C’mon.
We all saw Perlini play great, albeit for only about a week or two. Being optimistic, what would it mean if the psychological gears between the ears locked in and he played at that level consistency – it would be HUGE! He would be a legit top-6 winger to go along with Kane and DCat. It would be 3/4’s of a legit top-6.
Parlaying the optimism – what would it mean if Nylander suddenly woke up (figuratively) and played with a level of consistency, on all areas of the ice, to where his considerable offensive skills made him a legit top-6 winger – it would be HUGE too. The Hawks would have a very good top-6 able to compete with any team in the league.
That’s probably more optimistic outcome than one team is allowed – so I’d be happy to settle for either Perlini or Nylander “getting it” this season and ensconcing himself into the top-6 for the foreseeable future.
In the Finnish league the top paid player a few years ago made under 400k USD. In Sweden the top salaries are 250k…but apparently the employer pays the taxes so it’s the equivalent of about 400k USD.
I’d think a 50% hit rate on reclamations would be considered exceptional. If we had breakthrough performance from Perlini or Nylander, I would think we’d be happy. My sense is that Nylander might be the guy, not Perlini.
Obviously, hoping for both.
From Aurora and ER standpoint its worth keeping Perlini. Caphit should be closer to 1 then 2 m and 1 yr.
Nylander I think is going to be good, just not sure when. He could play good in this system and that could be key.
The white collar around neck on jersey is terrible. At least its way better then it was now. It does make a difference to the look, nothing will ever change the overall look of the sweater with having the Indian head. But that white collar sure tries to, its when you have close ups of the players, it just make us look like Pilgrims. Thank god they made it better.
Now it looks much better from the front, good enough. And actually looks ok from the back. Seeing that Wide white stripe in front was the problem with it.
I admit I am jaded, but I’m hard-pressed to recall instances of “floaters” flipping a switch and bringing their lunch pails to work on a sustained basis. Both Perlini and Nylander are floaters so I’m not optimistic on either.
It reminds me a bit of Kyle Beach (although he was an asshat as opposed to a floater). Some fans kept expecting him to suddenly drop the clown act and play smart. If anything he became even more stupid over time. I guess there are exceptions, but for the most part these guys don’t change and before you know it their windows close.
Goal scorers can sometimes look like floaters because they are generally looking to find open space where someone can get them the puck in a shooting position
Obviously there’s a fine line between being a real floater (someone who doesn’t realize there is more to hockey than scoring goals) and being a goal scorer
It can sometimes take a while to figure out how to get into a scoring position particularly at the NHL level and even then some players who aren’t floaters but are goal scorers can get the floater label from fans
Going back to my youth I think of the Big M (Frank Mahovolich) – if he wasn’t scoring fans were on his ass for being lazy
Or more recently Brett Hull had a similar rap
Currently Phil Kessel is another one who comes to mind
Granted neither Perlini or Nylander have shown that kind of potential goal scoring ability but my point still stands – they have yet to figure out the balance between floating into a good scoring position and just floating cause they’re lazy
Agree that I’m more optimistic about Nylander but I’m not ready to jettison Perlini either – but he has to sign for a reasonable number and eventually I think he will
…and IIRC there were some in Kane’s early years who were quick to label him a floater
Would you trade Perlini for Puljujarvi? Had heard Holland would take a 3rd line player for him.
Puljujarvi is exhibit A on why you don’t rush Dach. Development has never been ruined because a player is over ripe in junior. 38 goals in 133 junior games. If in doubt… Send him back.
Having seen Perlini play a bunch of games for the Hawks last season, I think I have a pretty good read on him. I haven’t seen Nylander play enough to have first-hand opinion on him so I’m relying on the little I’ve seen him play and the comments of others. It seems likely they don’t have the same shortcoming(s) in their games.
The problem with Perlini seems to be a lack of focus or awareness or hockey IQ which results in him wondering around rather than being where he should be during the flow of the play. It seems to be less an issue with being engaged and effort and more an issue of not processing the game quick enough to know what he should do as the play unfolds. If that’s accurate, then it’s either not fixable or he needs to learn how to slow his emotions and thought processes down and find specific things to key on during the play and maybe that fixes his issues.
Nylander, on the other time, seems to be exactly lack of engagement and lack of effort except when the puck is on his stick. That’s probably easier to fix because it doesn’t require his brain to process information faster than it’s capable of doing (possibly like Perlini). He needs to buy into a 100% commitment to playing the right way, including physical engagement.
I think Colliton’s “man and a half” system is going to require a more cohesive 5-man effort which will ferret out the players that either aren’t putting in the effort to play within the system or those player incapable of playing a more structured and disciplined game. All 5 guys on the ice need to play on the same page which will require effort and understanding of the system. I’m looking forward to it.
Considering Anisimov had been relegated to being a healthy scratch, teammate protecting, shot blocking, penalty killing, hitting (130+/yr.) faceoff wining Zach Smith is clearly an excellent return. I think we’ve forgotten how important it is to have a tough player who does al the dirty jobs. Also note, the one season where the Senators put Smith on a scoring line, HE scored 25 goals. We desperately needed Smiths, Quennevilles, Shaws, Carpenters, Caggiulas, etc. Finally, we are tough to play against. Opponents might even refrain from dressing a skill player in favor of a physical option regarding healthy scratches, which, in itself, can create a win.
ER, when reading your post about those players thats what I thought of before last thought. The new team system being needed to be able to do that by the player.
Nylander needs show he can be a good Ahl player first, he isn’t going to learn in Nhl, he will earn a spot in Ahl first. This team is built to compete every night not develop. Perlini if he can’t stay lineup, will need to use practice time between games to force his way in. Dach and Boqvist stay if they are ready and can help, won’t be there if not. Same fir Sikura and others, its win first this year and develop in minors.
Brad – completely agree with your post. I don’t know much about Smith so hope that your observations become reality – that would be an important piece for us.
Yeah agree on Smith too, have made a few posts since the trade on the value he could bring, certainly someone who can step in and impact right away.
Just a quick comment on 15. I watched a clip from the convention where Shaw is talking to to JC. Shaw says to Colliton that”Smitty is going to be good too” Colliton then asks “why do you know him”? Shaw replies “no I played against him a lot, we went at it a few times”.
Coming from Shaw, that pretty promising to me.
Yea thats waht Collitan said were going to have extra players in Rockford and the ones that need more development until there ready. Then were going to have guys come in who are ready and can contribute and not just fill a spot for a couple games. When you think about that its like every deep roster we have had before. We basically have 5 FW lines and some extra D when needed.
Remember Tazer saying there were guys that could play elsewhere and they were scratches 5th line players on our team because we and they wanted to be that deep.
Yes Yes. Said the same about 15 as well, not as good or know as much as Allen did does. Smith is going to help.
Its like having two Shawzers, for the second time.
Ian, Your comment about Nylander needing to prove himself in Rockford first and not learning in the NHL is confusing to say the least.
Dach and Boqvist stay if they are ready and can help?
Shouldn’t you be using the same logic with Nylander? If Nylander is ready and can help he plays in the NHL. Or at least the same logic with Boqvist needing to prove himself in Rockford?
Do you really think that a young kid will not learn while playing in the NHL?
If Nylander can’t learn anything at the NHL what would be your logic for Dach playing in Chicago this year?
Wouldn’t necessarily call Sikura or Quenneville tough to play against.
Zack Smith was under 50% at the dot the last 2 years. But looking at handedness splits tells a story. He was 53.8% vs left but only 40.9% vs right. Shaw on the other hand was 52.7 and 56.4% against right shots the last 2 years.
I don’t believe Anisimov was ever a healthy scratch. He played 78 games missing a few due to a concussion last year. Sure his role diminished with Strome emerging. But let’s not make things up.
I do agree they needed a little more snarl. Why I think having him and Shaw on the same line would be entertaining.
When I looked it had Smith above 50, like 51 or 52 and Shaw around 50. They are both 50 or higher and we need that. Every yr we were deep we had 3 guys, and didnt get the 3rd guy until deadline except for Madden. 26 and 80 were deadline. We now have 3 again before deadlines. I just love that we have 3 good faceoff guys again, that are 50 or higher. Who what lines they are going against can make a difference in % though.
Smith and Shaw prob go against other teams top lines with us, thats whay 19 16 were so incredible being 57% and against other teams top center faceoffs guys.
Not sure how good a skater Smith is. Having 65 and 15 to me is like having Shaw and Bolly back.
Stape point my i was making was it’s a win first year. If Nylander suddenly becomes a Nhl player as i stated before and surprises he stays. Strome went to Ahl once and put up good numbers, it was apparent he just needed to find his game at next level, Dach and Boqvist may be in same boat, time will tell. Nylander after 3 years in Ahl has only shown he is an average Ahl player at best to date, if he needs time as a reclammation project it won’t be jeopardizing the Blackhawks chances to win any more than Dach or Boqvist will if they need more developing before being Nhl ready. I just feel this year there is a good chance that Dach and Boqvist are better than other players in the mix and can help. I don’t see Nylander unless he somehow has a complete miracle turn around with his attitude and finding his skill game, in the same light.
Bowman said of the importance of 6 or 7 guys who can play center. Which is why the fo issue will likely be righty/ lefty fo guys on each line, except Toews, mentioned that in another post, so the nos for Smith play right into that.
Thats why I think 15 could be 3rd line, to start. With Kampf faceoffs being, Carpenter faceoffs good for right draws.
In terms of faceoffs, even though I like 65 on 1st or 2nd line, you have
19
17
15 65
64 40
Could have 17 65 and theres your Shawzer on 1st or 2nd line.
Having plenty of centers and faceoff guys means we can roll 4 best lines and not worry about only faceoffs.
Batman
17 65
15 77
64 40
That works Mo, also guys if guys like Sikura or Saarela called up, they gave played C and are used to fos, not sure how strong but be ok on strong side maybe.
In the 2017-2018 NCAA season Dylan Sikura played in 35 games. He took 11 total faceoffs. Winning 5 and losing 6.
What did he do in his other 3 years in Ncaa. May be an option may not,
You get your Mark Messiers too who were all star left wingers and took hardly any fos in Nhl before being moved to middle and becoming hall of famers and strong fo guys. Numbers don’t tell you everything.
SB Nation website has a “top-25 under-25” article/poll where they list all the players under 25 in the Hawks organization and there are 55 of them. Probably the top-11 would be fairly easy to list, but then it gets a little more difficult.
I think the top-11 would include DeBrincat (21), Strome (22), Dach (18), Boqvist (18), Beaudin (19), Mitchell (20), Nylander (21), Kurashev (19), Sikura (24), Kubalik (24), and Perlini (23).
Now pick 14 more out of the 44 that are left – Wise(19), Quenneville (23), Kampf (24), Barratt (20), Entwistle (20), Dahlstrom (24), Krys (21), Nordgren (19), Carlsson (22), Soderlund (21), Hagel (21), Kayumov (21), Al Saarela (22), Johnson (21), Altybarmakyan (21), Basse (18), Ejdsell (24), Ess (20), Foo (21), Fortin (22), From (21), Galvas (20), Gilbert (22), Gravel (19), Hakkarainen (21), Highmore (23), Knott (22), Laavainen (21), Lankinen (24), Marchand (23), McLaughlin (24), Moberg (18), Moutrey (24), Noel (22), Osipov (22), Peeters (20), Ramsey (22), Ryczek (21), An Saarela (18), Shea (22), Slavin (20), Teply (18), Tuulola (23), Vlassic (18).
No way would I put Perlini or Barratt behind Sikura. Perlini has shown inconsistency. But that’s still way more than Sikura.
Numbers don’t tell everything. But please don’t tell me you just compared Sikura to Mark Messier. Messier had 2 100 point seasons before he was 24. Sikura is MAYBE an NHL player. And that’s a stretch.
Mark Messier? Where did that come from? It certainly wasn’t me comparing Messier with anyone, let alone with anyone on the list of under-25 Hawks players/prospects.
The list of the top-11 players weren’t necessarily in sequence of best first – it only started out that way because they were the first and most obvious players to fit the criteria – but I happen to think Sikura is a pretty good player and I think he is better than Barratt and possibly Perlini. That’s my opinion whether you agree with it or not.
I do not think that was his point. No worrys.
ER, even though were not keeping everyone after this yr we have a lot of good players for the 23man this yr and extras in Rockford.
For the young wave coming we got about 6 good players and maybe more that can be good. Of the 6 blue chips, I got the Four Horsemen with Vlassic now and Dach. Debrincat being the 1st of the 6. There are a bunch of others that could be good, have to wait and see how good they are. The 6 we have is sort of like BOS 5 good players that got them back. Except we have a top 3 stud coming, they do not.
For this season we have the established players Maatta Haan Shaw Smith and full roster. I think going forward we trade one of each, maybe, have one goalie, that and cap goes up covers Debrincat and Strome. Theres different ways we can do it but I think we trade one of those established players and keep one goalie and have some on elcs insetad of players like Perlini at 1.5 or 2 m. We ll just have elcs for those spots.
Please no more Sikura talk…he is an AHL , ECHL player.
And 2nd round pick Vlasic….. SOFT & SLOWWWWWWWWW, cut by USA.
I like Shawzer staying and as the Horsemen come in we just trade a Defensemen one at a time and still stay deep. I d like Smith to stay to, not sure how we do it. The Horsemen, Dach and others like Kurachev will make it work.
They said Debrincat after world juniors cut, was a novelty act.
Our 6 good players coming
Dach (18)
DeBrincat (21)
Boqvist (18)
Mitchell (20)
Beaudin (19)
Vlassic (18)
Count Strome in the young wave
Think Kurashev (19) and Kubalik (24) could be good not sure about Nylander (21)
Like the Shaw Smith Bolly Krugs, like, centers we have coming.
Mo the thing i like and may be a difference maker is the ability if injuries or someone struggling is the ability to callup a replacement, if you need elite D or capable backup goalie, bottom 6 grit or top 6 skill, it’s there this year. The opportunity for so many to step up is really something we haven’t seen lately for sure.
Ian used Messier to show how a player can go from wing to center. Has it happened this millennium? Phillip Danault was more of a wing when drafted but he took a ton of draws. Sikura is 24. He is what he is and center even in a pinch ain’t it. He’ll take a draw when someone gets tossed. That don’t count
Bottom line is there are a lot of FW options – guys who have yet to prove themselves (including Sikura) so the competition for FW amongst this group at training camp should be intense
Hopefully a couple of these guys step up
Nylander, Kubalik, Sikura, Perlini, Saarela (the elder), Quenneville possibly Kurashev
At this point it’s open race – should make for one of the most interesting story lines in camp and exhibition games
Hull, you say “no more Sikura talk” and yet your hatred of Sikura compels you to talk about Sikura more than anyone. Hilarious.
And, by the way, what you or I think about Sikura doesn’t mean squat – he will succeed or fail on his own merits. I happen to think he has a good chance to be a productive player, hopefully for the Hawks, but if not – so be it. I have no personal stake in the matter. I see the talent and work effort and he reminds me of Teuvo who started his NHL career in much the same way as Sikura has started his. I wouldn’t be surprised if you were writing off Teuvo early in his career too.
Thing is in last gew yrs we havnt had that good of prospects, in terms of several of them. There was some here and there but not this many. Its been building for awhile and the payoff is coming. 2-3 yrs is good for the draft to be playing. We didnt have 15 and 16 picks. Debrincat was a steal, like Saad, a little in 2nd round. I know we traded Buckaroo but the draft 17 18 19 are coming. 14 draft is 8 for 17. So this is the wave, the Calvary we have been waiting for, to be deep again.
I think it was smart to load up with established players before the wave gets here. That way as we need salary cap wise, we trade or not keep someone and have an elc young wave player is ready. Which are coming no matter what. Like others have said as good as the Horsemena re going to be until there in there for a bit there still green. So haveing these Maatta Haan to go with Murf and others is important to have, every yr we can cap wise, so we have a full 6 or 7 NHL established Defensemen.
I do not believe in they 19 88 window shtt. I do think they have so many prime yrs left and then 35-40 are good yrs. They are still going to be good enough to play the whole way to 40. 19 88 2 can do this, 51 10 7 cant. Thats the difference. Thats with a younger age league now, 10 yrs ago 51 10 7 prob could still play when 35-40.
Starting with this season were deep, some yrs more then others but, deep in every position and have lots and lots of good players coming. 4 blue chips 2 top 6 skill elites and how ever many goods. I know we had to do it but. Even though it was only 2 seasons, its about time and feels right.
Although it has nothing to do with a winger maybe being familiar enough to take some draws on the his strong side as was my post.
To answer about converted wingers this millinium. Keith Tkachuk, Patrick Elias, Joe Juneau, Mats Sundin, Dave Andreychuk etc. all converted to C in their careers in 2000s. One of smallest Bkackhawks ever and greatest centers, who teammates said never weighed more than 160 lbs, Stan Mikita was a converted winger.
Sikura in 16/17 won 17 draws and lost 28 in 38 games.
In 15/16 he took 2 total draws
In 14/15 he took 5 total draws.
In 4 years he took a grand total of 63 total faceoffs. I hope for his sake he succeeds. It’s just not gonna be at center.
Why is there a debate about Sikura taking draws and/or playing center – he is and has been a winger. Adam Gaudette was the top line center at Northeastern for the last 3 years Sikura played there during which time Sikura played wing. Period. Taking a few faceoffs was probably due to Gaudette being thrown out of the faceoff a few times. Let’s not make a big deal about it. I like Sikura as a player and think he has a chance to have an NHL career – but as a winger, not a center.
Somebody twisting words to suit themselves isn’t a conversation.
Q had just about every LW and RW play center at some point. Thats how you find things, trying something thats weird and you see other things you wouldny have in doing so, when doing something else intended for.
Hopefully Dach makes the team and makes it moot.
Some guys are light and still flourish — Gaudreau is a good example. What allows him to survive is that he is both shifty and fast and those things combine to make him elusive. Sikura is shifty but not fast and as a consequence he is not especially elusive. From what I saw this year, he really needs eyes in the back of his head to protect himself out there.
I think Sikura is a very good hockey player but physically he is simply not NHL material. I think he will have a nice career should he choose to play in Europe.
I should add, Gaudreau struggled against Lanch in playoffs this year when the physical play ramped up. Maybe that was a one-off but it was noticeable.
“guys like Sikura or Saarela called up, they gave played C and are used to fos”
Not trying to be a dick. I just see places like capfriendly and elite prospects list Sikura as a center and I want that debunked immediately. It’s like the 2 weeks they tried Kane at center. Capfriendly also listed Jokiharju as a LD.
I have no problem with the bottom 2 lines alternating who takes draws. Especially if Smith and Shaw are on the same line. Smith was 53.8% against left. Shaw was down to 52.7 from 56.4 against right.
FWIW, Reese Johnson was 65.3% at the dot last year in the WHL. Had the second most faceoffs won. Won 972 Lost 516. Leschyshyn had the most draws won, but was only 56.9%.
Dach meanwhile…took 1147 draws winning 473. Good for 41.2%
Johnson and Leschyshyn were actually teammates in midget hockey, wonder if the other team ever won a draw. Johnson led the team in points. Even with the gaudy faceoff numbers every place still lists Reese Johnson as a wing.
Johnson and Leschyshyn were actually teammates in midget hockey, wonder if the other team ever won a draw. Johnson led the team in points. Even with the gaudy faceoff numbers every place still lists Reese Johnson as a wing.
Going back to 17/18 Johnson won 777 of 1381. Good for 56.2%
Dach was 275 for 669 that year. Good for 41.1%.
3rd line could be 20 15 65.
Dach makes roster then 65 can be on 1st or 2nd and
3rd line
20 15 77
Actually seeing that I like a 3rd line of
20 65 77
Dach with 2 goals and an assist in Canada 4-1 win over USA in World Junior Summer Showcase
His assist to Joe Veleno on the PP was particularly sweet
I used to go to these world juniors in lake placid. Be better if they were still there so I could go during the summer break.
Looks like Dach put Canada up 2-0 with primary assist on 1-0 goal, and scored the 2-0 goal. Then when game was 3-1 scored the put away on the 4-1 goal.
USA goalie didnt play so prob playr on SA. The last couple days are the main event, really SA because you know every teams rocord and whos really playing for gold silver and bronze by then.
USA Canada on SA will be the game to go by.
Dach might be the most dominate player there since Teuvo. Thats what the scouts said in 12 and 13 when Teuvo was there to me, that he was the best player there since Kaner.
From the highlights it didnt look like the pace I saw in 10 11 12 13 14 15 in lake placid. The F and SA games should have the pace.
Dach primary assist and 2 goals looked to easy and every one was right around the net area.
Boy I miss getting drinking with the scouts during the wk nights at world juniors. Still the SWE scouts coaches were the most fun to party with and get with girls.
A proposed lineup I saw on a different website:
Saad Shaw Kane
DeBrincat Strome Dach
Z Smith Toews Kubalik
Caggiula Kämpf. Carpenter
Perlini
I have to tell you – I don’t hate it. It’s a little “out there” but I find some of those line combo’s interesting, in a different kind of way. Maybe more than anything it says the Hawks now have enough good players that line combo’s can be constructed by picking names out of a hat … or maybe I’ve seen so many proposed lineups that I’ve lost what little sense of propriety I once had, or maybe I’m experiencing early stage of sleep deprivation and I should lay my head on my pillow … ah, yeah … I’m going with the last one there.
I actually thought of those the lines the other day. Didnt have 15 on 1st but same concept. It was based on the 20 65 88 line. I think I had 77 on 1st not 15.
8 19 77
20 65 88
12 17 11/91
64 15 40
Theres good chance that a couple of the up in the air forward spots in the season opener will have different bodies playing there at midseason and lines will likely change alot first part of season.
11 19 88
12 17 65
20 77 92
91 Carpenter Kubalik
Yea I can see 77 8 92 95 getting games and which ever stay stay. While guys like 64 40 15 91 will play every game until some of the skilled guys get situated.
Will Butcher =3.7Million; Samuel Girard =$5 Million. That’s the market. So what is Gustafson worth ? He’s UFA next summer so Stan pretty much has time right up until the trade deadline in February.
When Boqvist is ready and 56 traded? at deadline what would we be looking at in return. Thats prob your most ideal return, time to do it.
Would we add a good player at deadline and do that, to get a good player for more then a rental. And so were still as deep for playoffs, this yr. Boqvist is ready by 2nd 40 games and is similar kind of player, then you add another good player and maybe for more then rental depending on caphit and how good.
Your going to get the most out of 56 because of ufa caphits then we could do that.
Getting a top 6 skill in Boqvist is really good.
Just cant state how good and important it is to get a franchise player like Kirby Dach.
I mean we were getting a 12th pick kind of player and that would have been good.
Seriously Bouchard and Velino or Boqvist and Dach. I am laughing.
Don’t think you can put 88 with a center that cannot receive a puck or pass a puck with easy. 88 with 19 or 77 or 17 in the middle.
8 19 88
12 17 11
20 77 65
64 15 91
What would it cost if we offer sheet Lemieux 3yr 6m or 2’m a year for 3yrs.
I think the course of action on what to do with Gustafsson has already been established and it’s essentially to use him this season and then let him walk away as a UFA. While there is still a slim possibility the Hawks will trade him before the season starts, it’s unlikely because most teams are pretty much done making roster changes and like the Hawks no longer have much cap space to do so.
The choice was to either maximize his trade value before the frenzy of the free agency period subsided or use him for the 2019/20 season and get nothing for him in the end. They chose the latter.
I doubt the Hawks would trade him in-season. The only scenario I can see that happening is if the Hawks are out of the playoff race but Gustafsson is having a good enough season to be an attractive trade acquisition for another team.
I suppose there is the hope Gustafsson signs an extension with the Hawks for a VERY team friendly deal, but … that’s probably not going to happen.
Jr like those lines. NYR just bought out Shattenkirk so maybe signing Lemieux now maybe.
Depends on health of blueliners what happens at tdl. If Boqvist shows enough and dmen reasonably healthy, could see where they might swap Gus for future help or young fwd who could help right away and beyond next year.
Boqvist would need to show he is ready to play in the NHL in training camp in order to make the team but then he would have to continue to show he deserves to stay in the NHL for some number of games before the Hawks can know he can effectively replace Gustafsson in the lineup. But then the question is – why replace Gustafsson – why not have both in the lineup? If the Hawks are in the playoff hunt at that time – wouldn’t it send a bad message to the team to trade a key player? If Gustafsson is having a good season – they shouldn’t want to trade him, and if he’s not having a good season – they wouldn’t be able to trade him for anything significant.
Send the 18 year old to Rockford and let the contract slide.
Girard and Butcher were both RFA’s without the production Gustafsson had. Depending on how Gustafsson does this year his number will start with a 6. Another year like last and it’s probably closer to 7.
If a team on the playoff bubble offered up a 1st round draft choice for Gus at the TDL the Hawks would probably take that especially if they think Boquist is ready to step in to run the PP
Combining all those variables makes for an unlikely scenario admittedly but still one that could happen
That’s an interesting scenario Wraparound. I think Ebony nailed it though. The decision on how to proceed with Gus is already established and has been planned out by Stan and company.
In reading, the McDonough interview with the Athletic’s Scott Powers, the mantra seems to be **just get into the playoffs and anything can happen**, so if the Hawks are anywhere near the 8th spot come late February, I doubt they are sellers at the deadline and I doubt they trade their power play d-man.
It will be interesting how this particular story line plays out this season.
56 get 6m or more, trade me right fuccing now. And then hang up/get good return.
I would rather have both. Think Boqvist could play as much as Buckaroo did last yr but he wont keep playing is hes really not ready with Colliton. Wouldnt want to trade 56 unless it was like a Hartman trade steal. Do not want him to leave for nothing but we can keep Haan or Maatta. I like Haan.
With the Horsemen coming and thats what we do 56 cant stay I guess. Matta Haan Murf are DEF Defensemen, so they have chance to stay as we go along.
We are deep but prob only way we win this yr is with 56 and having good PP and PK.
Then its the Kirby Dach leading the young wave coming.
With respect to Gus, I lean in a different direction. I think they trade him at the deadline or sooner. The teams most interested in him as an UFA will make a move to get him before the auction starts to affect a playoff run, provided he’s still an ascending player. If a team truly wants him, they’ll want to jump to the front of the line. I think there’s zero chance the Hawks let him walk without getting something for him.
Regardless of when is Gus is moved, as he seems like a cap casualty that Boqvist can seemingly replace. I tend to agree he is moved rather than just let him walk, when trading from what should be an area of strength. If Boqvist playing in Rfd, it’s wiuld seem unlikely his slide year is in the picture, be the 40 game window towards ufa if anything.
Those are options coaching staff and Bowman can let play out as they want to. What will need to happen is 3m to 6m in cap will need to be moved before next July 1st to prevent overage carryover on next years cap. Is it better to do it now, unlikely. Early season when other teams dealing with maybe long term injuries to start year, at tdl when more teams interested to peak return maybe or after season in what could basically be a cap dump from a weak negotiating position.
Also who, defence most obvious, which caphits, 2 with nmc play into it. Throw in a fwd ? Which one again nnc play a role.
If Lehner looks like future, Crawford during season or tdl a possibility, if Lehner struggles then what ?
To me i would target tdl and if any to good to refuse offers come up earlier in season jump at them. If this season it all comes together as a team, what then, where a lenghty playoff run is a possibility every move will be criticized or praised.
Clarification needed: is ELC slide year possible if player plays in AHL? I thought slide year was no possible if player played professionally in either NHL or AHL – is that incorrect?
No a slide is possible in Ahl too, Ryan Hartman had a slide year in Rfd.
Beaudin is also eligible fora slide year too this season in Rfd.
Slide yr is just the 10 game thing, right?
Less than 10 games Mo, thats right. Means more if going back to juniors usually. Does happen in Ahl although most Gms will say if they want a look at a player in Nhl games it is not even considered in final decisions pn either account.
Actually say you give Dach 20 games, send him back to juniors, he burns an Elc year and one less year of big bonus potential off the books, may get a little depending on bonus structure but a fraction of 2.5m potential. Plus he wouldn’t earn a year toward ufa status. If he is thought of as ready and can help next year its all a moot point, just deal with the bonus and early ufa, which if as trends today, lock up young and long term to big contracts may not be a major issue anyways.
If Dach plays 3rd line minutes like everyone seems to agree. I doubt the high dollar bonuses are attainable.
We need a new post- this one is over two weeks old.
Dach is top 6 talent and will get a chance to be no.1 C some day. For now Toews is no 1 for foreseeable future and if Strome hokds on to no.2 spot, Dach will play top 6 in another way for time being. He may start year at 3C but sooner than later he will be in top 6 if he sticks. Still think with the way people in and around organization think 9f Jamof he gets a shot at 3C. If Dach plays top 6 wing on one line, that leaves Saad, Shaw and maybe Kubalik this year as other top 9 wingers, one as a top 6. Unless someone like a Nylander or Perlini steps up then things could change, and Kampf is 4C likely.
Should be Kampf at 3c
I get that Dach is top 6 talent and eventually he’ll play there but if he played all year at 3C with say Saad and Shaw that’s really a 2B line
here’s my most optimistic FW top 9 with actual line combos up for debate
Nylander Toews Kane
DCat Strome Kubalik
Saad Dach Shaw
Could easily see that 3rd line being more productive than the 2nd so maybe the order is reversed there
If everyone is playing the way that they can (ideal I know) that’s a very good top 9
Smith Kampf/Carpenter Caggiula – something like this for a 4th
I’m not as high on Kampf as JC seems to be
I think we all know we will be on D except for whether or not de Haan starts on LTIR or not – if he does Boquist probably gets some games
Wrap, switch Nylander and Kubalik. I know the age difference is minimal but let’s see if the younger guys can gel and then keep that line together for a while. Depending on speed of the skaters throw out an all speed line. Late in games throw a DCat Dach Kane line or a Nylander Dach Kubalik.
I’m also not as high on Kampf.
Based on faceoff numbers in the WHL alone, I’m not sure Dach can play center. Can you have a top 6 center with a sub 40% faceoff percentage?
I think 12 and 17 need a player that can bang, that is defensively sound to make up for defensive their shortcomings. Saad’s best year came with a guy like Strome (Wennberg)who could dish.
Smith and Shaw should be on the third line together with Caggiula. Talk about piss and vinegar!
I think Kubalik should play with 19/88. If Dach shows he has enough to be up then put him as a winger in the top 6.
See Mcdavid for someone who is top center and low fo % . Usually fos aren’t worked on with top centers until they get to pros so wouldn’t go there yet anyways until we get a better sample.
Like your piss and vinegar line has spunk, find another bottom 6 line to go with them. Think Kubalik gets a shot with 19 and 88 early part of year to see what he brings like Kahun did.
Not that we need to worry about this yr or 21 season. Dach is a franchise player, thats when we cant cant keep someone to do this caphit.
Another thought, about that speed line, did we get faster as a team or stay about the same. Knutz Hayden Krugs Anismnov arnt that fast. Shaw Smith Carpenter Kubalik or Nylander, must be faster then last yrs group.
Not sure on Carpenter, Kubalik showed very good speed at worlds, Smith no speed burner but plays a type of game needed to compensate. Shaw can get it done, overall seems like forward speed improved, not so sure blueline did though, an area Boqvist would help for sure.
Nylander fast but knock is he doesn’t use it to his advantage enough, especiallly without the puck.
And there’s actually debate that McDavid might be better off on wing. Sort of like Kane. Center from the wing. Either way, it’s safe to say Dach isn’t Kane. Faceoffs are a little overrated. But still, if hes ready what’s the harm in putting him in the top 6 on the wing? If he’s with Strome they can split draws.
As far as a 4th line. I’d probably lean towards Wedin as we’ve heard he’s responsible defensively and was told he’d get a shot at bottom 6. Then Carpenter and Kampf.
Or if Dach is a top 6 wing drop Saad down to 3LW and Caggiula to 4lw.
Only problem would be Dach probably has a higher likelihood of hitting those bonuses as a top 6 wing than a 3c. And I don’t know how keen the Hawks would be potentially stunting his development
Dach as Strome’s right winger works for me. Never heard about making Mcdavid a winger, dominates in middle and very responsible defensively, be a controversial move i would think.
Wedin is somebody Colliton knows and seemingly wanted signed. Kind of wonder what his presence will be. Good chsnce him and Saarela are 2 that may start in Rfd and see alot of time with Blackhawks by seasons end.
Dach and Strome are both right handed and not good at faceoffs – so from a purely faceoff perspective – no one on that line will win faceoffs and since they’re both right handed you don’t get the left/right strong side duo.
But, faceoffs aren’t everything so if they can generate more goals for than against – it would be good.
Strome shots left .
Scott Powers reporting that Hawks and Perlini might be about $500,000 apart.
If I were Perlini, I would take the Hawks offer of about 1.2 Million for one year, try to make the leap into the 20 goal category then file for arbitration next off-season. That’s called betting on yourself.
Right now he has no leverage and as training camp approaches and guys like Sikura, Saarela, Quenneville, Nylander and Wedin are chomping at the bit to prove they belong in the NHL, laid back Perlini becomes an after thought.
How in the heck did the top line in league of 72 15 88 in 16 and 17 get the puck, they didnt win faceoffs with 15.
Laid back and afterthought are words I do not like about hockey player.
Get out there and stick, eh.
Good point Mo, fos don’t always paint a clear picture of whats happening.
Look at Strome last season, if you just judged by stats alone and looked at his possession nos, you would think he was having a career year in 1st 20 games in Ariz and his year dropped off after the trade. His numbers before trade 58% fos, over 52 corsi for 1st time in his career and the lowest o zone starts of his career while doing it. After trade his o zone starts jumped up 58% from about 52%, his possession nos, nose dived to 46.6 corsi and his fo nos fell from 58% to 48%.
So it really can be a misleading and over rated stat, especially when you have a Toews taking by far the most, certainly big majority of important fos and one of the best at it.
Gotta admit the thought of a top 6 for next few years of
8 /92 19 88 Nylander next year maybe
12 17 77
Looks pretty good.
Add a bottom 6 to work off of and go from there on:
20 65 15
91 64 22
In a matter of a few months the forward prospect pool went from barren with Barratt and Kurashev being the top players. To possibly not even having a spot for Perlini this year.
@Ian – that does look like a pretty good top 6
Obviously to play 77 as a winger a lot would depend on if he is as productive from wing as centre – he seems like a classic big man centre to me (and why would you mess with that?) but maybe I’m wrong
Another question with that top 6 is Strome – is he really a 2C? I want to see a full year of him before stating he’s a 2C
If he is a 2C then in the long term you also want 77 (long term) in the top 6 – so that would mean as a winger presumably under this scenario
But I could also I could see a scenario by 20-21 where 17 becomes the 3C and 77 the 2C
Should be interesting
Fos are crucial when killing a penalty. How many draws were lost last yr on the PK that led directly to goals. A lot. Toews can’t take all the draws. Same for the PP. draws determine whether you have the puck in the O zone or have to go 200 ft to retrieve and try to re-enter the zone
Having 77 on RW then its 2nd line, and which ever guys works well with 19 88
8 /92 19 88
12 17 77
Yea a 3rd line of, keeps looking ideal
20 65 15
4th line needs to be able to checking line, 3rd can to
91 64 22
If I was SB I would tell Perlini’s agent that this is a final offer and he can take it or leave it. I am intrigued by Saarela – he has put up impressive numbers in the AHL and has decent size. He knows he has a great opportunity so I would expect him to run through a wall to make the team. I can’t say the same about Perlini although I believe he does have talent.
Ian, thanks for the correction – don’t know why I was thinking Strome was right handed.
Regarding Dach playing wing – I’m curious if it would hurt his development to ultimately be a center, which I think is where he should play. If playing wing for a season would not hurt his ability to play center in the future – than why not play him at wing if it makes the lineup work better – but will it? Toews, Strome and Kampf take 3 of the 4 center spots – but who plays the 4th center? I prefer Shaw at wing so that leaves Carpenter, I guess, which means Kampf is the 3C. I don’t like Kampf as the 3C. So, I’m back to playing Dach at 3C.
In projecting both Strome and Dach, I think most likely Dach is the better choice for a top-6 center role because he skates better and plays better defense than Strome. Does that move Strome to wing or possibly makes Strome a nice trade chip next summer? How long can Toews continue to play top-6 center? Probably for at least a few more season – correct? Which means we will have Toews-Strome-Dach as the top three centers for the next few years. Is that the best use of our assets?
ER – with the right pieces around them having those 3 centres 19-77-17…
…well you could win a Cup with centre depth like that ; )
What’s wrong with Shaw and Smith Splitting draws on the 3rd line and Kampf and Carpenter splitting draws on the 4th line.
Toews- 1880-56.3%
Strome- 659- 44.9%
Kampf- 609- 45.3
Smith- 820-49.1 (53.8%left 40.9% right)
Shaw- 384-47.1 (45.4% left 52.7% right)
Carpenter-306- 52.6
6 guys right there that took quite a few draws. Kampf had a down year compared to 17/18 when he was 53% with 549 draws. His TOI increased last year. But his draws per game were down by 2.2. Not sure if that’s Colliton vs Q or just personnel. If you add Dach that’s 7 guys with good faceoff experience.
I don’t think Kampf has shown enough of an offensive game to be a 3rd line player because I think the 3rd line needs to be a consistent scoring threat for the team to be successful. Having Shaw and Kampf split draws probably helps that line win more draws but Shaw isn’t really an offensive player either so that means 2/3 of the 3rd line wouldn’t be offensive generating. Saad would probably be the LW and none of those players are playmakers of offense drivers. Maybe a Saad-Kampf-Shaw line would be better than I can envision – but I’m not seeing it.
Thats what i was thinking to split up the draws between a righty/lefty combo throughout 2nd to 4th lines.
Wrap agree Strome has to show his worth again and progression in all areas of his game. Working with Blackhawks trainers all summer to ensure that happens, us s positive step. Hard to see 12 and 17 split up or both on 3rd line if their chemistry continues, that being said, agree with thoughts Dach would seem to be the better long term option at 2C.
Have to think Bowman waits out Perlini, he either signs for what he is offered or is moved when he is ready to trade him. Could be to regain a pick, or a player who he sees mileage in or in a package. As depth for tge right price he certainly could be an asset though.
Wrap, at first it doesnt matter to me where Dach plays, what makes roster better and lines deeper to roll 4 line lines.
Once hes gets established say 2-3 yrs in or less then hes a center hes a center. Doesnt matter to me if 17 is an ideal 2nd line center or not. Theres nothing wrong with the 12 17 line being the 3rd line. People might say 19 wont be 1st until hes 40 but I think he is most of that.
So, I would have Dach anywhere were it makes the 4 lines better and stacked. Then when Dach is too good of a center have him at center and adjust lines from there.
When everyone posts faceoffs % can we include the source. Where getting different numbers and I am not sure which is correct.
Rusty, having two faceoff guys on each line could help each players %. Thats ideal to have 65 15 and 64 40 on each line.
ER, yea 64 should be 3rd line, 15 is better. Shawzer can score and so can Smith, like in the way the 29 65 25 line did. A 20 65 15 could be very similiar in scoring like them and better defensively. Plus you now have another line again that can cycle which we havnt had since 2015.
4th line of 13 16 67 or 13 16 11 didnt score that much. Did at times so they wernt shooting blanks. So 91 64 40 wedin could be similiar. They have to be good checking line, PK, and faceoffs % enough. When needed or planned have 15 and 40 take PK faceoffs not 64.
This is another thing were back to 2015 quality status in, PK and PK faceoff % with the guys we got now. Night and Day.
I love Stromer because he works very well with Bob lee swagger cat. Like Jordy said hes hasnt earned a higher caphit or more longer then bridge in yrs yet.
I want to love 17 long term. So hes got to get better the more yrs he plays to get that 5 yr or longer contract. Think he could be very good so he should have enough yrs to show he is going to be that good, by the time 77 needs higher caphit.
64 should not be 3rd line center.
Wrap one other scenario for Dach is put him with 19 and 88 and over next couple of years he becomes 1C with Toews moving to wing and taking alot of fos, in an effort as Mo stated to keep 19 a topline player by reducing some of his load that way as has been suggested before by Eddie O and other hockey people. Kubalik maybe fits with 12 and 17 then.
World juniors at 4. Canada only played top players in game 1 and 4. Dach with 3 pts in 1 game. Played there top D guys in game 2 and 3?
Both teams playing top goalies and players. Gravel playing.
http://www.leaguestat.com/whl/whl/en/media/index.php?step=4&sub=30&format=&limit=100&menu=Players&goalie_order=games_played&player_order=faceoff_wins&season_id=266
That’s the WHL faceoff stuff. I use Puckbase for all the NHL faceoff numbers.
Just had this thought. Let’s say Nylander got his shit together and plays with 19/88. Buffalo reporters said he bulked up and took the off-season seriously.
Lineup with draft position
8-3-1
39-3-3
43-79-139
UFA-UFA-UFA
12
54-93
22-20
12-14
10-51
52
46
Thanks. Having the right and left % is nice to see. People havnt posted that before. Which they had a vs what line of other teams / competition level but that prob too hard for stats beaner counters. Thats prob the difference we saw in Animisov and now Strome, like Ian said. Was going up against 3 or 4 line, now Stromer agasint top teams checking line.
Thats why with a 1st line thats stout, 19 88 with a complimenter not a bangher. With a 12 17 RW line. Now which line is other team going to have there checking line because they cant have it against two lines. Now we have the faceoff advantage or least equal. So same with speed from last couple yrs, league got as fast and faster then us, 2008-2015 by 16, then we got faster. The faceoffs since Krugs cheapshot pansys, we wenrt what we were, then we got faceoff guys again now.
So I agree with dude that said faceoffs are important and Ian where it can be misleading, like the Animisov and Strome and others difference because of 2nd line or 3rd line other teams centers. So having this right left hand faceoff numbers is nice. I will follow that this yr.
I imagine our guys could do better then those numbers they did recent yr because of the stronger handed faceoff thing. That we now have the flexibility to do that.
I need to go up to the booth and slap Button in the side of his head. He ripped on Dach for heeling the 5 on 3 shot. Then Gravel for giving up a PP goal between his ear and top of head in the top corner. Then back Knight for a goal, review, before review, then says whats taking so long for this review common.
Let me slap him once or twice and knock some sense in this fellow.
Button didnt come to lake placid because he knew I was there to keep him, on the line.
Top line of Canada and Dach do not look as good. Both teams playing top players, except Canada doesnt have D guys in. Besides that playing game 1 day 1 Canada and then not until SA playing game 4 day 5. It looks like it made the top line rusty, sync.
What I mean is US played there top guys game 2 and 4 so in rythem. Where CAN did game 1 and 4 so too much gap. Now its looks like mid 2nd the CAN top line Velino Lafv Dach are picking it up.
Like to see league make a 2nd run into goalie a 5min penalty and if done by same player, ejected. Has no right to play after a 2nd goalie run over.
Well that was a good game until, they allow the same player Walburgh to run into the goalie two times and thats it. Instead of CAN scoring on those PP or not and still being up 3-2 or 4-2 US ties later after at 3-3. With getting away without two goalie interference. Needs to be ejection if done by same player and 5 min.
That changed the game and gave it US, otherwise CAN up 3-2 like deserved after 2nd.
Wernt hard hits into goalie or anything, just cant have rules like the way they are, just encourages teams to plow over goalies anytime because they know it, could, make a difference in game. Just like doing one of those 5 min fights to change momentum.
Which when two players start a fight, it always needs to be still 5 on 5 and the two fighters need to stay in box until next whistle.
Its too much of a shithow that changes messes up a game, when it should be alter by good plays not fights and goalie run overs.
This isint WWF. What the Fukk.
That top line Leno Dach Lefrenyah looked like shit. Must have been playing game 1 and 4 with too many days in between. Even though CAN should have been up 3-2 after 2nd.
Walhberg run into goalie two times and that won the game. It tied the game for US and gave them a chance to played tied or ahead, when they deserved to play from behind.
Hey not looking to far ahead, when is Seabs caphit end and what yr is Dach up. Dach is up for the 23 season. Is Seabs 7m up by then. That would be good.
2024 on Seabrook.
Depends when Dach’s ELC clock starts. Could be as soon as 2022 or as late as 2024 if he stays in junior this year and next.
What’s more likely is the league or PA opt out of the CBA and they agree to bring back the compliance buyouts. Even if its given to the teams that didn’t use both last time around. They could then trade to a team with a buyout remaining if Seabrook agrees. Or he agrees to waive his NMC during the Seattle expansion in 2021. Regardless, no way Seabrook’s deal is still around when Dach needs new paper.
Thought BOS had 5 good young players. They only have 4, 2 of the 3 picks they had 13th 14th 15th only Brusk is good, what happened to the other two. With Carlio they had 6 good players and 4 are good. They have 7m in cap space why are they dicking around with Avoys contract, just pay the guy what he deserves. Same with carlio.
Yea, whats good is basically every established player we got this summer or recently are up for 23 season like Dach. So that will help with him and the Horsemen. Were good.
Looking really good because we have a lot of good players coming. Man were going to be good for the coming yrs.
Wonder if were able to land a top pair Defensemen to go with what we have assembled. Could get one at deadline like Mcdoungh.
Watching Oliver Wahlstrom play with intensity every shift, skate and with an elite shot….oh yeah we drafted Boqvist….And then there’s Joe Veleno…oh yeah we took Beaudin? Where is Beaudfin at the Summer showcase and Vlasic? Let’s hope Dach works out because after that, not much up front….
https://youtu.be/ujBjn1qeCLs
The same Oliver Wahlstrom that was BARELY a .5ppg player in college?
The Joe Veleno that put up 2 assists in 5games at the WJC?
Not much up front? That’s rich. We know how you love highly drafted Canadian Junior players. How about Alex Nylander or John Quenneville? Both 1st round picks. Then you have Entwistle. Brandon Hagel was 4th in WHL scoring.
ufas
Lindholm 23
Brodie 21
Faulk 21
S Jones 23
Brodin 22
Josi 21
Vatanen 21
Pietrangelo 21
Rielly 23
Muzzin 21
trade for
Hanafin
Josi looking good ufa top pair dude. Theres a good amount of top pair D ufas in summer of 21. Pay the caphit get a top pair guy.
Wahlstrom should have been ejected after 2nd run into goalie. Otherwise sure.
Those are some rules that would clean up the game.
-2nd run on a goalie, ejected and team 5 min penalty.
-No fighing matching minors, to get momentum. Its 5 min each and still 5 on 5. -Fighters must stay in box until next whistle.
-Has to be two seperate penaltys at different times to be 4 on 4. When refs call two penaltys, one to each player. Same thing still 5 on 5 and players stay in box until next whistle.
-instant replay on every puck over the glass.
Those are things that would help game for better.
Knock a year off all those players Mo. Josi, Pietrangelo, faulk,etc are all UFA’s after this season.
Would rather have the next Getslapped and Larsson then Rick Nash and Flippula.
2018 mock draft on Veleno
Dallas needs someone behind Tyler Seguin. Joe Veleno doesn’t project to be more than a 2C, but behind one of the best duos in the NHL, that’s perfectly fine. Veleno can be a two-way presence as well, the natural next step after Jason Spezza.
2018 mock draft on Bo
5. Arizona Coyotes – Adam Boqvist, defenseman (Brynas, Sweden): Boqvist is part of the new breed of smaller, faster and creative defensemen that are now getting selected near the top of the first round, and are expected to make a massive offensive impact quickly. The Coyotes have stocked up on traditional, big-bodied young D-men over the last couple of years, but Boqvist is the kind of player that could really add a different element to a team that needs to play with the puck more. He’s only 5-foot-11, 170-pounds and may not be able to jump immediately to the NHL based simple on his size and the need to get stronger, but NHL teams are now paying close attention to back end players that could wind up being the next Erik Karlsson-type impact D-man. Boqvist has a chance to be that player. Who knows? Perhaps his presence could also energize a player like Oliver Ekman-Larsson, that has developed some bad habits during his time in Arizona.
We would have to trade some players to add a top pair guy. Worth it though and for free being ufas.
Mo after the 21-22 season Seabrook would have 2 modified years left at after his bonus paid on july 1st, a team could have his full caphit for 2.75m actyal salary each year. Even if retained half be 3.4m cap room and team could have 3 4m hit 1.375m cost. But thats 3 more years yet.
The Seabrook contract. 2024…a hockey lifetime away.
Not a single person of right mind and spirit didn’t gasp when the contract was first announced. Even now, it’s just so stunning to read the cap-hit ends in 2024, which leads me to believe this contract has more to do with Rocky Wirtz than Stan and McDonough. Even if you thought Stan was a poor GM, he’s not an imbecile. And even if you thought this contract was 100% Stan’s idea (meaning you believe he’s an imbecile,) organizationally a review process of checks, even just “hey what do you think,” would exist to ensure someone above Stan has an oppty to bless it. That would seem normal.
2024!! Someone well above Stan’s and McDonough’s pay-grade drove the idea of this contract. That’s my guess, since I doubt anyone from hockey operations would have loved this idea.
Hard to know and hard to imagine a collective loss of judgement resulting in a long term contract for a fading player.
I wasn’t alone when I decried the Seabrook contract as being a reward for past service rather than an equitable agreement based on projected future service. I lauded the Hawks for their fealty to the player who was arguably the heart of the championship teams … but I acknowledged it was a bad business decision. You can’t run a successful business by making bad business decisions based on heart strings and good intentions. They did a similar rearward looking “job well done” contract with Kruger, although that one wasn’t nearly as impactful as Seabrook’s.
I kind of think the same as Aurora that the Seabrook signing wasn’t exclusively Stan’s decision and probably not even his idea, mainly for the same reason – Stan doesn’t seem like an imbecile to me either and from a purely hockey perspective the contract is indefensible. This was done based on loyalty to a good soldier – not on a good business decision.
Yes Seabrooks contract seemed excessive at the time and continues so today, true. Hard to say that rewarding players for delivering is a bad concept, though. Really would sooner have 3 cups in 6 years and suffer through a few lean ones than not have the cups have cap space to burm now. Or be teams who been close but never went all the way and in cap hell to boot. If all these guys were locked up earlier to big deals would that fire to win those cups been the same, maybe but would they been able to stay together long enough to put the needed teams on the ice to win 3. Can’t say it wouldn’t have happened but i like the success they had this way.
Ian, thats another way of doing it no one has thought of yet, or said it. Thats interesting and more realistic, in terms of what you see teams normally do. The CBA could help with one free buyout, I mean they are robbing every team one established NHL player for expansion, they should let every team have one buyout for the cba.
Like your thinking on the Seabs contract Aurora – makes sense
Seabrooks deal seems like it came from a guy with a marketing background…
We’ve been on this Zach Smith thread for so long that seeing his picture every day kinda makes me feel he’s part of my family … may have to set a place for him at the Thanksgiving Day table.
Getting Shawzer back is like having a family VFW back home.
Being on the same team as you is all the padding I need Rozy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-K990t7qFM
Joe Veleno scored over 100 points last season. He was not on the 1st line last season at the world Juniors. Very high IQ!!!
Joe Veleno scored over 100 points last season. He was not on the 1st line last season at the world Juniors. Very high IQ!!! He will be this season if he does not make the wings. By the way, Byt the way, Nylander, Queneeville, Entwhistle and Hagel, not drafted by our guru Bowman. DCat, Saad, Shaw (back), and Dach or Boqvist are the only GM drafted players on this team.
Let’s see what happens swith Dach and Boq!
Wow! 100 point season and couldn’t make the 4th lowest point team in the NHL?
Boy do we need a new topic-Tab?
Iam Laughing.
http://sportsmockery.com/2019/04/blackhawks-land-3rd-overall-pick-in-2019-nhl-draft/
Bowman must have another trade or 2 left in him this summer lol.
Z Z Z Z Z Z Z . . . . is it September yet?
Wake me up, when September ends.
I’m looking forward to the Traverse City tourney. I think college will be back in session so our NCAA players like Mitchell, Barratt, Wise, etc., probably won’t be there and I wouldn’t be surprised if the guys that are a little older (Wedin, Kubalik) or have a few pro years under their belt already (Nylander, Sukura, Fortin) won’t be there either. But a lot of good prospects probably will be there, like Dach, Kurashev, Entwistle, Hagel, Johnson, Saarela, Boqvist, Beaudin, Krys, and others.
Looking forward to it but it’s still a month away!!!!
Yea this is about 2 mths, besides that traverse.
Have to feel reeeeealy good about everything we have done since draft lottery after a good 2nd 40 games, with those roster adjustments around game 30.
Bowman has 19.58m or 24% of cap space in 4 defensemen who quite likely won’t play top pair minutes: Maatta, Dehaan, Murphy and Seabrook. 5m more, now 30% of cap, in Lehner who begins the year at least s backup goalie.
Then you have 3 fwds Smith, Saad and Shaw with just over 13m making that over 46% of cap space tied up in those guys. Now Shaw and Saad may be used to fill out top 6, especially early on but with the possibilty of development from guys like Dach, Kubalik, Nylander or maybe even Sikura or someone else, its possible that 46% of the cap space is taken by 8 players who aren’t playing top 6, top pairing or no.1 goalie minutes.
Obviously filled the voids that organizati9n felt needed addressed the most but still alot of cap space devoted to lower half of he roster. Granted having that kind of depth could be and quite likely will be a huge part of the story this season too. One thing having competitive meaningful hockey for a full season leading to playoffs will be fun to watch again.
Not going away from your thoughts. I would stay away from top 6 stuff and lower half or more like when people say 3rd line players at 3-5m only because depending on the yr and whrere guys are at contract wise is different then the makeup of the roster. I see what your saying. I would look at it as, the same way you are, without labelling top 6 lower half or like others 3rd line players.
Can play a 3rd line player like 15 at 4.5 because hes 3rd line now. Doesn even matter if he is now, based on team needs and better 4 line rolls. Its about who we have overall. When we had Handz we were one of best teams of all time and he was 2nd line center. 3rd line players were getting higher caphits.
What I mean is we really should go y overall and not narrow it to lines or halfs because that not what were really doing. Caphits are what they are and they are not based on lines or halfs. This is not agasint what your saying or you or others, and I know you guys know that.
So I would go by contract yrs more then lines or halfs. Then were talking about longterm salary cap and rolling the roster, cap wise. Like having a 3rd pair of Leads and Rozy at 2.2 and 2. It was ok when we could then we won the Cup and had to do no way 5m for a 3rd pair Defensemen when it was crunch time, not because he was ‘playing 3rd pair and reliable Rozy.
We did .650 and no way hosay for a fast OFF defensmen whos not playing when it really matters.
You know more then anybody or as much about the roster stuff.
I am just stating Way I look at it. I am thinking we just trade any caphits we need to when needed and keep the wheel rolling salary cap wise.
Were on the same team baaybaaaaay.
Get out there and stick em! Blackhawks.
Sometimes it’s more about the way stuff comes about than the execution of carefully laid plan. I’ve never been a Stan basher but there are times when I’ve been critical and a couple of those times has been when it appeared Stan waited too long to make off-season moves and ended up with scraps and trade deals that may have been better if he’d been quicker to pull the trigger. From that perspective, I’m pleased that Stan was more assertive in going after what he thought was needed rather than sitting back and waiting for the perfect deal to land in his lap.
Would Stan have acquired Maatta if he knew he would acquire de Haan? I don’t know but he went after Maatta when the opportunity was there. Would he have acquired Smith if he knew he would get the opportunity to use $5M cap space to acquire Lehner? I don’t know the answer to that either but the point is that acquiring Lehner was a good move due to the uncertainty of Crawford’s health.
I doubt the path that Stan took the Hawks down this off season is one that he had mapped out specifically but I think he did a good job of addressing the most pressing needs and now we’ll see how it all works out.
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again – the biggest thing we need to go right (other than the obvious good health) is for Colliton’s system to be effective and result in keeping the puck out of our net much better than last season. Almost all the newly acquired players should be able to use their veteran experience to grasp and execute the system and if they do the Hawks will be an improved team and Stan will have done a good job.
I think Bowman did it this year, because he could. With 12 and 17 still on elc as are 8, 92, 77 if they are part of roster. Gus at 1.2m for another year allowed him that leeway. I mean all the cap troubles and now this year to have ability to add this depth, hard to imagine. As we said before be turnover of roster to some extent next summer again.
I think Maatta for Kahun was a trade that benefitted both teams. Pens needed cap space and a cheap top 6 fwd option. Bowman needed a stay at home shutdown Dman and some bonus room. It probably was a trade that likely had to happen.
For the record and for Ian and ER, I on your side with things. Just Word it differently and because I do not speak English properly or politically correct. Do I give a shit, just want you guys here to know waht I mean.
Yea thats the thing. We had to wait because we had no choice and were under things. This really was the first time we could and Bowman and crew Pounced. The top 3 pick to go aloooong with the Pounce. When we were siting here talking about Pounce and stuff, we wernt thinking top 3. Whala.
With the top 3 pick, we are still under this same ‘word’ of this and that. I think that ‘word’ got a diffferent Meaning when we got another 19 88, per say, really a top 5 player from last 2 drafts. Only 10 teams get that kind of player every couple yrs and there not top 5 teams. We are.
Couple of dates to keep in mind. The Nhlpa can opt out of current agreement on Sept. 1st 2019 and owners can opt out on Sept. 15th 2019. Could have impact on this season or next if either side chooses too use their option and it is a long drawn out negotiations.
Gotta feeling that if anyone opts out of the CBA it’ll be the players – I think the owners are generally pleased with how its going
Issues for players could include escrow and Olympics
I was looking at Perlini situation and i wonder iff Stan really wants to give him a shot…iff this guy could be more consistent he would be a good signing. At what Price …2-3 Millions .
I wonder why he is so good one day and not there at all the next game . Attitude or lazy or ?
Iff Gus continue this year like he was last year maybe they should try to sign him for a few years at 3-4 millions and see what they can do later .
I’m pretty sure if Gustafsson has a season anywhere close to the 60 points he got last season he will command a whole lot more than $3M-$4M. He would be looking at somewhere around the $7M range, if not even higher.
With Perlini I think it’s just his opportunity. Look at his style. He skates fast, can shoot, and has zero defense. So how many of those goals were breakaways where he was at the blue line when the puck somehow popped out of the D-zone. He could use all his tools and be a better rounded player. But he just doesn’t. At least he hasn’t with the Hawks. But that’s why he’s streaky. He doesn’t create his own opportunity or create for others, as evidenced by assist totals. That’s part of the reason why I’m glad Caufield wasn’t taken.
As far as Gustafsson…his ask should be 6m right now. If he puts up another 60point season he’ll ask 7m.
Look at Keith Yandle. He got paid after his age 28 season. Gus will be 28 in March. Yandle has never had a 60point year. But he was always heavy offense, suspect defense. He got 6.3 per.
Gus will likely come down to how much he wants to stay and how much Blackhawks want to keep him. If both sides gave desire to make a deal something likely be worked out, look at Karlson in Vegas took less for long term security to stay there. Thats possible for Gus if both teams want it. A shorter term dair market deal be pretty steep if he has another good year.
Wrap escrow is a big issue with players. Scaling back the salary cap from 83m to 81.5m was to address that. A similar cap hike is consideref likely next year. A controversial solution for players as it allows the players who have big contracts now their cake and eat too, paying less escrow with theur deals. Players looking for their turn at big deals have less cap space in which to get them, plus lower end contracts stagnate and create a divide amongst players.
I like signing 56 for fair caphit of around 4m. Not saying he wouldnt get 6m as ufa overpay contracts do a lot of the times but the 60 pt thing prob doesnt happen again but sure he can do 40-50 every yr. We just had a top 5 OFF team that didnt play defense and you have stats like that sometimes. Not saying he wont do 60 every yr though and until hes good at D he should get more then 4m, if he was a good two way Defensemen and not a OFF defensemen sure 6m like Seabs was in prime yrs.
Like Jordy said about Strome I feel same with 56, they should be doing fair caphits this time and then do a larger one later. And go by OFF and DEF how good they are not just one. Only Kaners do that.
Nothing agasint 56 but if hes 6 or 7 or anything more, forget that. Now if he learned to play D and gelled in Collitans system so he was that kind of player and we traded Seabs contract, sure.
I would like to see how many pts 56 gets, when we play Defense as a team and not OFF oriented kind of a team. What did Travis say last fall, fukk it just go go go go go. This is fun to win. Do you want to that again, yes win, not play D no. So were going to not score as much overall I think by playing a better team D structure and still have the same OFF firepower but more controlled overall stats wise.
I would say 56 get 49 pts this yr, from the Hockey Gods so he can be decent cap hit, fir this bridge deal.
Hard to figure why Perlini would be balking at a contract. He has no resume’ on film, or in the stats category, to justify anything more than maybe $1MM or a little more. He hasn’t earned a payday yet. I’ve liked his play at times, but it is not consistent. Where is he going if the Hawks don’t sign him? I can’t imagine too many takers, especially with him wanting more than what Chicago is offering. Seems strange to me. Sign a damn contract, get into camp, compete, win a roster spot, and then build a resume’ for a future payday. It won’t be easy, but Stan and the boys are right for not handing him money.
Big Indian the agents have alot of control over these guys. Their feather in their cap for getting a better deal than expected is at stake. If he is listening to his agent instead of telling him what he wants, that could have alot to do with it.
Perlini’s agent is the same as Marner’s agent – Darren Ferris
He’s is playing chicken with Stan and Perlini could get burnt – ie. traded or forced to sit or play in Europe
I doubt that happens to Marner although Ferris is playing a similar game with Dubas
Perlini would be smart IMO to sign before camp and I think he will – otherwise he’s gonna be on the outside looking in at the Hawks roster
Players artificially make the cap higher due to their escalator clause. Then they bitch because of escrow. That’s how it works boys. You negotiated for 50%. You get it. If the league makes more than 50%, you get your escrow back and then a bonus on top of it. That’s what happened post 04/05 lockout.
Most fans, at least most of the fans that participate on hockey blogs, don’t have a realistic understanding of how players salary is determined and hence balk at a player holding out for what the fan thinks is more than he deserves. While, it probably wouldn’t be described as an exact science, there is some rhyme and reason used in determining the salary a player should get … and whether you agree with it or not – Perlini’s comparables put him at about the $2M AAV range. Whether or not Stan should sign him for that is a separate issue – but that is what the market says he’s worth.
Perlini’s already on the outside looking in…at least in m opinion. I’ll use JC’s healthy scratch after a 3rd period benching in late March as exhibit A. This was 2 weeks after he was 2nd star of the week.
The market is what someone is willing to pay. Unfortunately as an RFA a player has a very limited number of potential suitors, especially this late. And going off to Europe is really only going to net 250k.
A player like Perlini has to scratch and claw for everything. 100k difference on a 1-1.5m contract is a good percentage.
Artturi Lehkonen got 2.4×2. Lehkonen, according to Hockey reference is the most similar active player. Jared McCann is another similar player and his contract pays 1.25×2. Plus/minus is the only category really different, with Perlini really far behind those 2.
Artifically inflated is misleading, there is a number both sides are aware of, that the cap should be to keep system running smooth. The owners can low ball on that nunber and come in calculating how much under they need to be so the for the players to use their escalator it will negate their share of revenue in escrow payments to keep cap up. Alot of owners want it up too, but forcing the players hand this way is kind of a win win. Negotiate revenue shares then force the escalator, raise escrow payments for players or weaken on ice product with a lower than should be cap ceiling. Helps financially weaker teams survive short term anyways.
@EBONYRAPTOR …… thanks for the info on the comparables. It’s hard to see how it would stack up to that much dough, but I’ll take your word for it.
And the talk of outside influences (i.e. agent’s involvement/reputation/goal), and perhaps other players or player association, reminds me of something that happened with a MLB player several years back ….
There is a guy from my hometown who was a journeyman pitcher in the major leagues. He spent time as a starter in Cleveland as a young player, and eventually became a middle reliever, and then over the years became pretty much the last pitcher kept on the roster. During his last season he was offered $600,000 by a team as an end of the bullpen middle reliever. He took the offer. He was lambasted by other players and the MLB players union for accepting that deal. He came back with essentially a line of how I just described him (and I’m paraphrasing) …. “hey, look, I’m in the last stages of my career, I know my place on the roster, and if someone is going to offer me 600K I’m not going to turn it down and then end up going home to Missouri and then probably sell cars”.
I think I have better perspective on the Perlini situation now that I’ve had input from others and have thought about it more (but he ain’t worth $2MM).
I agree Perlini is not worth $2M based on what he has done so far. But then I also think there are many other players overpaid for the value they bring to their team so, in other words, I don’t have a handle on NHL player worth either. Plus there is the “common Joe” factor which is basically it’s hard for common Joe’s (like me) to relate to the amount of money professional athletes (and entertainers) make – it all seems way too much to me. It’s almost like thinking about it like Monopoly money where it’s not part of the real world. But I also know professional athletes have a different perspective and I’m sure I would think the same way if I were one of them.
So, w-h-a-t-e-v-e-r , I just want to watch the Hawks play better than last season and have a shot at making the playoffs and doing something when they get there.
Big Indian- Nick markakis did the exact same thing. Granted he’s made a good bit of money. He asked his kids and they wanted to stay in Atlanta. Plus Atlanta has a pretty good team. So he took a lesser deal to stay where he was happy. Writers gave him hell for not taking more and hurting players he’s compared to.
I see Perlini near 1m or maybe 1.5 but not 2m. In terms of play with us. We could do 2m for this yr but he aint staying after this yr then.
We have 3.3m right now.
Would we rather have Perlini at 1.3m and 2m prorated for deadline or only have 1.3m prorated at deadline.
Have to pay every player bonuses this yr, we want no left overs, so we can max the 21 season salary cap.
ER, were going to be really good this yr. The roster is so much more full now then it was two yrs to game 30 and games 30-80 last yr.
So much. We are deep again. Then when young wave players and Kirby Dach come in we wont have so many extra veteran players but these young guys are going to be better then them. So we wont keep some of them to have the younger guys caphits but once the young guys get established, were even better.
That $3.3M cap space is with only 10 forwards – so even if one of Dahlstrom or Koekkoek is removed from the roster and that cap space is used for a forward – we still need two more forwards and some cap space for in-season moves. Adding a 12th forward would reduce the cap space to around $2.3M. If Perlini gets signed – he has to fit in that $2.3M and leave at least $1M for in-season moves. Ergo – the most he can be paid is $1.3M – plus that means the Hawks would have to go with a 22 man roster rather than the typical 23 man roster – 13F/7D/2G.
I think what it comes down to is this – pick three from this group: Kubalik, Dach, Perlini, Nylander, Sikura – they will be the 11th/12th/13th forwards.
As for Perlini, the hawks don’t need him. The player should be telling the agent what he wants and not vice versa. If he doesn’t realize he has no leverage he will be sitting out in the cold. As for Marner, he will be signed on the first day of the regular season once their two LTIR go into effect.. the future issue for GM’s is the young stars don’t want 8 yr contracts but 4 or 5 yr ones so they get two big pay days during their career. Aka Mathews 5 yr contract
Forgetting about Quenneville and Saarela? Both have shown more than a few you listed
Bobby, LTIR doesn’t work the way a lot of people assumed. Marner can sign now.
Quenneville: 33 NHL games – 5 points.
Saarela: 0 NHL games – 0 points.
Nylander: 19 NHL games – 6 points.
Sikura: 38 NHL games – 11 points.
Quenneville and Saarela have shown more than which players? Surely not Nylander or Sikura. Dach and Kubalik haven’t played in the NHL – so it can’t be them. Perlini probably isn’t worth what he wants but he’s played 199 NHL games and got 72 points so I’m guessing it isn’t him either. Help me out here.
I would pick 2 of those 5 for for 11th an 12th fwds. Perlini may be moved yet, too. Then one of Saarela, Quenbeville or Wetin as the 13th fwd., the first 2 have put up good nos in Ahl and press box time less likely to hinder their development, whereas players like, Nylander, Sikura and Kubalik would benefit more playing regular top line mins, in Rfd vs part time in Chicago.
What about the difference between Haan on ltir and who we would have until hes ready. Then we would have to, but until then maybe were good.
I was thinking the 4th line would be a rotation from among these 4 players: Caggiula, Kampf, Smith and Carpenter. The 6 top-9 players locked in are Toews, Kane, Cat, Strome, Saad and Shaw – that leaves 3 spots to be filled in the top-9. Those 3 spots will probably be from the 5 players I listed earlier: Dach, Kubalik, Nylander, Sikura, and Perlini. The 3 players selected would not be in the press box rotation.
ER – good breakdown which I agree largely agree with
However I’d add a couple of things – if the training camp performances of those 5 players doesn’t yield a clear winner for 1LW I could see Caggiula at least starting the season there – it’s not my preference and I do think someone else will grab that spot but it could happen at least to start
Also while I agree that the 5 players listed will definitely be in competition with one another don’t sleep on Kurashev – a dark horse admittedly but someone who could surprise and make the roster
Also wouldn’t be surprised if Perlini makes the team as a 13th FW – so he out of those 5 could be in a press rotation to start anyway
Was talking AHL numbers
Carpenter and Smith were brought in to fill a void, so in my opinion it wasn’t void in the pressbox, so they play every night first part of the season anyways. Cagguila is likely a regular and the fo and coaches seem to hogh on Kampf so don’t see him sitting much either. Thats why i think one of the 3 i mentioned will do the pressbox alot early on unless there is injuries.
Think how they see Dach will make a difference on Perlini’s situation. They have the depth that unless Dach and Boqvist show they are ready to play a significant role, they don’t need them surviving on Nhl roster they can go where they will play a significant role and get more Nhl ready. If Dach is not staying then Perlini becomes more useful. Thrn again you never no when Bowman might pull a Perlini for Pulijijarvi type deal either.
Thats why I think 15 is 3rd line center unless 91 is 1st line. Then when guys like 77 are ready the 4th line is stacked with 15 on it. Whcih might not be until deadline. Having Smith could be our deadline add, already, by having one of the young wave ready and playing top 9. What matters is were deep enough to do it lots of ways.
It is important to get roster stacked like that but have to wait until some guys are ready in order to do so. Kind of like having 36 on 4th from deadline on and 65 on 4th from deadline on.
I really like this guy Kurachev. We got in the Hartman fleece trade. Guys like that could be ready for the 2nd 40 games and then were talking.
Kind of like when Hammer was ready, just another good player key player to add to an already deep roster.
If all 4 of Caggiula, Kampf, Smith and Carpenter are in the lineup – and Dach makes the team – then only one of Kubalik, Nylander, Sikura, and Perlini are in the starting lineup and the other three are probably in Rockford because as someone said – we don’t want any of those 3 to be press box fodder.
Wow…546 post here now…will we reach 1000 ?
Prediction…Dach …going back to whl .before nhl season start ..like Boqvist last year
Now that was said I doubt it gets to 600.
Dach didnt express me at world juniors. Training camp and scrimmages and first 10 games is a long ways away, nhl ready wise, for a top 3 skill player.
To me the beauty of all the forwards listed above is that Colliton will be the Judge. He will have training camp and preseason games to figure out who he wants.
So at this point when it comes to Sarella, Quenneville, Wedin, Nylander, nobody is ahead of anybody. They have not set foot on the ice in front of Colliton.
Kubalik is on the team. Stan has pretty much stated that.
Colliton knows Sikura and his game. So he has a good chance.
Perlini is an NHL player. Period. You don’t score between 12, 14 and 17 goals in the best league in the world before 24-years-old and get sent to the “A”
The question is this : can Colliton coax a free spirit like Perlini to focus and become a 25 goal scorer ? That’s the challenge. And it’s also a challenge of these abilities to be a communicator that Colliton puffed up to be.
The onus is on both.
Btw, enough with the talk of Carpenter and Z. Smith being scratched. Not happening. Unless either is nursing an injury.
Just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks … but what if Dach is kept on the team for the hidden agenda of replacing Strome in 2020/21 so the Hawks don’t have to pay him big bucks and should be able to get a nice return for him in a trade?
While the 2020/21 cap situation is hardly in focus right now, the best guess is that Cat and Strome will get paid handsomely and the Hawks will be right back in the familiar spot of having to subtract good players from the roster in order to make the Cap work. A good year from Cat and Strome only exacerbate that situation, not only in terms of what their new AAV will be, but potentially in bonuses accrued in 2019/20 season as well.
One potential move would be to have Dach have a years experience under his belt and be ready to take over for Strome as the 2C making Strome expendable and the Cap situation much more tenable. Ideally, Strome and Dach would both be on the team but I suspect something has to give and this would be one option.
Course, it all depends on what kind of season both Strome and Dach have but if Strome is near to a point per game center – he will command big bucks and the best move the Hawks may have is to get a very good player back in a trade. And of course it depends if Dach is capable of playing top-6 center in the NHL … so still much to be determined, but … just seeing what sticks.
Acquiring guys like Shaw and to a lesser extent Smith with term left, plus drafting Dach and Teply with 2 of the 1st 3 picks and Entwistle almost Nhl ready. Have to wonder if Saad and his 6m cap hit, especially if he isn’t playing alot of top 6 minutes will be considered as trade bait to make some caproom. Moving D is an option but need someone ready to play the role too. Should be in couple of years but too much turnover on blueline again next summer could be a step backwards too.
Craig being the voice of reason! Now go on cap friendly and talk some sense into those that think buying out/burying Smith is a logical idea. They’re the same ones that think buying out Seabrook is fiscally more responsible.
Using just ballpark numbers: Our total goaltending cap hit will probably go from the $11M this year to about $8M in 2020/21 figuring Lehner at $7M and Delia at $1M – so that’s a net or $3M. Saad being traded nets another $6M, so now we’re up to $9M. Gustafsson is probably gone s0 there’s another $1.2M and let’s say the cap goes up $1.8M. That totals up to $12M in cap space – but Saad has to be replaced and Cat, Strome, Caggiula and Kubalik have to be re-signed.
Can Cat, Strome, Caggiula and Kubalik be re-signed for an additional $12M over what they’re getting now? The point is that even with subtracting Saad’s $6M cap hit there will need to be other moves made to make it work in 2020/21.
I know … we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it. All the more reason to enjoy 2019/20 – “The Season We Had And Used Cap Space”.
Exactly my point moves need made next summer, is doing it all on D the wise way. If Boqvist can replace Gus, Saad is playing 3rd line and hit is moved maybe Nylander makes Kubalik resigning a moot point and your basically where is needed with least amount of impact on roster. Plus no need of cap dump to get there.
Tab told me first hand that he won’t be running the blog anymore so don’t expect any new posts.
Also Maatta can be bought out very cheaply IIRC – that’s close to $4 million saved
Others like Smith or Murphy could be traded to free up more space
In the cap era NHL each team gets to varying degrees re-done each year to be cap complaint – if the Hawks want to keep Strome along with Dcat they’ll find the cap space
If Strome has a good year and then you add Dach (at the latest by next year) on an ELC plus you have Toews then that’s the recipe for a Cup run as far as centres go
So Tab isn’t going to be running this blog anymore? I don’t know how these things work – but isn’t there some cost in having and maintaining a blog? Will this blog just disappear one day? What is the expectation?
Craig, love the beauty of the whole thing.
Tab is on a beach lawn recliner chair somewhere in the islands. Enjoying reading this conversation.
EB could be fake news.
Señor Raptor – Where did Crawford went?
Anyone with the handle Benoit Hogue has to be considered with some suspicion – no?
Benoit had 54 goals one year in the Q and 543 points in the NHL-some respect please.
If Tab is still on the beach he will need some more sunscreen-it’s been almost a month.
Not going by position D or FW wise. I would think we added the four players Shaw Smith Haan Maatta with the idea not all are staying. Have the four when we can then keep some of them. Know this is different system and league wide speed. When it came to Saad or last time, we kept Saad and traded the Leddy type player.
Wrap, thats what I am thinking. We added those 4 with the idea of not having to keep them. We can pick and choose. Sure Saad and Strome are options. I would rather keep the better ones and we have more depth to trade from. The interesting thing is who we keep out of everyone and I think that takes care of itself by how good the players become, not just caphits.
Where is Tab? We need the Tab.
Wrap, every yr we were deep we had good centers and that was adding a center at deadline two times. Like 2009 2010 this time we added during summer.
With Shawzer and not even counting Dach we have good depth, added during the summer.
Sure Tab is fine and just not needed to start need thread every day. Its fine to have the same thread go on for days wks. We always talk about a bunch of different things Blackhawks. Do not need a new thread every day.
Good point Mo. Even when Tab starts a new thread it often turns into an open forum pretty quickly anyway so that’s basically what we have now. Besides there’s nothing really new during this time of the off season anyway.
Mo, guess my point on not being in a rush to move defensemen, is outside of Boqvist, who seems almost ready, not really sure if in another year the rest of the young dmen will be ready to play big roles in Nhl or need more time. How they progress this year will determine alot. Maybe a blend of D-fwd turnover might be best idea next summer.
Yea we could by whos ready or ready in a yr based on position. Having those 4 players 2 of each FW and D gives even more options. Just like having Dach and other FW like Kurachev and the Four Horsemen with Vlassic being part of that now. We have sort of equal balance for who we have coming and can go which way we need to.
What I really like is we have not just good prospects coming, we have franchise player, 4-6 blue chips and then ‘normal’ good prospects coming to take spots as we go along. So once these guys get established were even better. So to me I like that we can do it any way, per say, and have lots and lots of fresh hungry young wave players coming.
Pretty much unlimited from here on out.
I really like this blog for getting my Hawks news and commentary. I hope Tab is going to keep it going…
Did someone say something or is it just because Tab hasnt started a new thread for a bit. Doesnt he have a twitter, has he posted there since this thread started.
https://twitter.com/The1Tab?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Says hes one baseball vacations.
11 19 88
20 77 92 or Kubalik
12 17 65
91 Carpenter 92 or Kubalik
(extra: Kampf Saarela)
SIKURA swiss league.
Be interesting if the 1st line is a 91 19 88 or 65 19 188 or 11 19 88 kind of line. Your looking for a player like Bicks. Who else worked well with 19 88 because we didnt do it much before. 10 19 88. Main reason why was Hoss worked well with 19. 12 and 17 do not? So were forced to play 19 88 on the line.
11 plays like Bicks did, he could be very good. Remember people questioned Bicks at times during regular season and was a playoff style of player.
Sikura’s ,75m caphit could make him valuable as someone who can be called up in top 6 skill replacemant role if needed.
To resign next year 12, 17 and Lehner your looking as of now 20m next year and Kubalik, Gus and Cagguila be another 10m likely, thats 30m to resign those 6 if they perform how we hope they do next season. So having players of Sikura skill under contract for team friendly hit next 2 seasons to fit under cap when needed could be huge.
So if you do the math and 30m is ballpark resigning those 6 plus 21m for 19 & 88, then 13m owed to 65, 15 and 20 plus 25 m for big 5 D contracts owed. Thats
30
21
13
25
–
89m
For 1G 6D and 9 fwds so need to lose at least 12m and hope guys on elc contracts like Dach, Boqvist, Nylander, Sikura etc. can step up plus grinder fwds, to make next season work.
Players like Kubalik, Caggiula and Gus will find themselves squeezed by the cap next year – that the Hawks could bring back all 3 for 20-21 seems highly unlikely
But that’s next year – it’s one year at a time in the cap era NHL
Undoubtedly there’ll be changes next year to clear cap space and some who are here now won’t be then but there are options
I think the Hawks can retain the key pieces but not everyone else
Wrap agree the only impact this year is that those numbers, it doesn’t include bonus overages, which will need assessed and addressed, when and how could have big impact next year.
If it ends up being in the 5 to 6m in bonus overages needing addressed vs in 2.5 to 3.5m range needed, again Saad could be most disruptive solution.
Realistically what are the odds even half of those bonuses get charged?
Not going agasint others caphits. I am going with Lehner plays good because he is good and does the contract he wanted with Islanders but because they dicked around with him, like Boston is doing with two of there young good players, he left and told it how it is. So I am going with Lehner doing the same contract here he wanted and deserved there.
6m for how ever many yrs.
Crow stays for low caphit like 2m or doesnt stay and we have one of the younger guys at 1m.
So to me goalies are 7 or 8 going forward, not 12. Thats 4 or 5 m right there.
Time will tell, 2.5m definitely good chance with Strome and Debrincat. One of Boqvist, Kubalik or Nylander getting their.85m pretty fair chance. If Dach stays ot will be tp play a prominent role and his 2.5m will ccrtainly be in play then, not as much of a reach as you think.
What are DCat and Strome bonuses for? points? All Star selection? trophies?
just curious
on any yr we are loaded or stacked deepness wise, we always have to not be able to keep everyone. Lucky we have a dang good man with Rocky.
Thats cool because we not only have lots of options and at each different type of posiotion of each position FW D G, we have a very good young wave coming. That will be just as good and better at elc caphits, once established-for some.
So yeah. If anyone would have said 3 yrs ago we could keep Shawzer at his caphit he was going up to 4m, get a player just like Frozal at similar caphit of Frozals 3.5m, get a top 4 DEF Defensemen with Haan, get a potential top 4 or ‘one of those’ OFF Defensemen like Leddy or Gus but in a DEF Defensemen form at 4m-with a low buyout caphit.
We would have said F Yes. Then know we cant keep everyone of the 4 for longterm but we always have to reload after every Cup in salary cap. Unless your Yankees or Canadians in first 50yrs of hockey with first top 10 picks in draft every yr or Red Wings with 95m payrolls in mid 90s, when every other team was what? Spincter says what?
Ian, you posted the amount of each player the other wk. Where can we get the exact player bonues for each guy, like bonuses # 1 2 3 4 and each amount for each one, info from.
Debrincat has 32,500 in possible bonuses this year.
Strome has 2.475m in bonuses
“A” Bonuses are worth $212,500 each, to a maximum of $850,000 (maximum 4 achieved). They are achieved by each of:
-20 goals
-35 assists
-60 points
-Top six in Time on Ice among forwards on team (minimum 42 games)
-Top six in +/- among forwards on team (minimum 42 games)
-0.73 points per game (minimum 42 games)
B” Bonuses are worth a maximum of $2 Million, and the full amount of the bonus is awarded if any of the following is achieved:
-Top Ten in NHL Goals, Assists, points, or points per game (min 42 GP)
-Win any of the following trophies: Hart, Selke, Richard, Conn Smythe
-1st or 2nd team All-Star
Let’s assume Debrincat has an A bonus. He probably hits that.
Strome probably hits the 20g 35a and 60p threshold as well as toi. So assuming that’s how his bonus schedule is set up (pretty standard) he’ll max out his A bonus. The B bonus, I think those are probably all out of reach.
Depending on where you slot Kubalik and Dach, assuming they both make the team would affect their bonus. Kubalik probably hits 1 or 2 of the A bonuses. If Dach is a wing he probably hits a few of those. If he’s a 20g 35a player as a rookie, he deserves a roster spot and probably maxes out the A bonuses. Doubt the B’s are attainable, at least as an 18 yr old rookie.
Dach and Strome only ones who are eligible for B bonuses the big ones. Strome 1.625m and Dach 1.65m. To earn them they would have to finishi top 10 in league in any of goals, assists, points, pts per game, +-. Win a major trophy Hart, Richard, Art Ross, Selke, Conn Smythe may be others too, not sure. Be picked to 1st or 2nd all star team. Both doing that part may be a stretch but one cerrainly could have year that they do one of those things.
The A bonsuses $850,000 max for them are alot easier to attain by any one of. Being in top 6 of team fwd minutes, 20g, 35A, 60 pts. Top 6 on team pts per game,+-. Certainly doable plus same for Kubalik and Nylander for them. Boqvist A bonuses for D men change, not sure of specifics for him but be achieved if he stays most likely. So 4m+ is certainly possible.
So looks like 12 and 17 get those bonuses. Strome prob doesnt get B which is good. Only bread man got that. Would Strome have got B bonuses last yrs stats.
He prob wont do higher then last yrs stats by much, that would be more then pt per game. Think even with bread mans stats he squeaked in a 10th of the top 10 stuff. Still adds up some with these players.
Thats 900 for 12 and 17. The others are, possible, A.
Maybe we donot sign 11 then.
Kabalik looks like hes better then Kahun but that doesnt mean he gets as many pts or othes as well. We are going to a team that is better team game overall and have even moar fire power then last yr, along with a decent to good Defense now. So that equals to a lot less GA but prob less GF, with a much larger goal differential.
Also see PP and PK differential 1000% or more improvement.
Can we please stop with the four horseman BS please. Odds are one of the four will NEVER be on the team. In fact this has already happened. The phrase four horseman on this site is so incredibly annoying.
Absolutely correct. Now that Jokiharju has been traded – we need to change the phrase “four horsemen” to “three horsemen”. Being incorrect is soooo annoying.
Unless … we want to include Alex Vlassic in the stable of horsemen which would take us back to four horsemen … but then why not include Chad Krys which would take us up to five horsemen. Hmmmm?
Yeah, I think it should be either the three horsemen or the five horsemen but not the four horsemen. There … that settled that. ;=)
And the odds all of Dach, Kubalik, Nylander, and Boqvist are on the roster long enough to get even those A bonuses this year? Probably less than any one of them getting a B bonus.
They have enough guys on the bottom 6 they don’t need Dach or Nylander to play that role. And imo, they shouldn’t. Those 2 need minutes. Dach because he’s 18. And Nylander because he’s been injured and was jerked around in Buffalo. 105 professional games the last 2 years.
If you can slot Kubalik in the top 6 that probably only leaves one spot in the top 6. Unless you bring Saad up into the top 6 as well, the. Move Perlini to 3LW.
With the forward additions of Saarela,Nylander, Quenneville and Kubalik you have guys a few years older that have been playing professional hockey for a few years. Its pretty incredible how quickly they were able to stock Forward depth. Granted none have the ceiling of Dach.
Rockford’s roster should actually look pretty good. Especially if Boqvist is down there and Dach up with the big club.
Thats why i saud assess, as said if Dach stays its to play significant minutes, seems like he will get that shot, dimissing it as not happening is silly. If he does he earns the first $850,000 “A” bonuses quite likely. Same with Strome, if Kubalik is playing top 6 mins too thats gives 3 “A” bonuses of $850,000, if injuries play a role on defense as very possible, dismissing Boqvist as Ahl is premature to sat the least. Theres up to 3.4m plus if Strome or Dach have a big year, quite possible ones earn their B bonuses, thats 5m in bonuses that have potential to be in play at least. Everybody gave Panarin zero chance of hitting his bonuses right up to last few weeks of the season too.
I’m not dismissing him. But Id be shocked if he starts the year in Chicago, even if DeHaan isnt ready. They have 8D without him. If he’s in Rockford for any decent amount of time I think those A bonuses probably aren’t attainable.
Just looking at recent history. How many 18 yr olds hit b bonuses? Let’s just say Dach has a Brady Tkachuk or Nico Hischier rookie year this year. I’d be pretty pleased with that
How many 18 year olds have the potential to play on a line with Toews and Kane or Strome and Debrincat. Compare apples to apples, most are drafted to depleted teams and expected to drive the offense.
If Boqvist is ready and best option he will play, winning this season is a priority, slow starts and missed opportunities could cost them a playoff spot which they dearly want this season.
18 year olds who with big bonuses who can make Nhl team i meant.
Rusty and Ian – thanks for info on bonus structures
I didn’t realize that there were standard bonus structures but of course, it only makes sense
I’d be surprised if Boqvist plays enough games this year to hit bonuses (although injuries do happen so not ruling it out)
so if you leave Boq out of it then the likely worst case (regarding bonuses) would be Strome, Dach, Kubalik and Nylander all maxing out their A bonuses
So that’s $850,000 x 4 = 3.4 million if my mental math is correct
It’s possible that the above could happen but probably not likely that all 4 max their schedule As out – however it would be prudent to have a plan a place for roughly a $3 million bonus overage on the cap next year
Hischier had Hall…just saying
Vlassic takes Joki spot as a Horsemen. Still have 4.
I guess there was Four because they were 1sts and one early mid 2nd. Vlassic fits that description. Have high hopes for them and there better then most ‘usual’ prospects.
Do not know then now or yet but I have feeling about them. Building from within or draft to reload with another wave of core players. They might not be Four core players but I think 2 maybe 3 could be core players, not just good players.
Dahlstrom was a 2nd as well as Krys. Who cares where they were drafted. You over look a guy like Lucas Carlsson who had a really good year in Rockford having never played on small ice.
Wrap don’t disagree and not gonna cherrypick what suits, but we want these guys to succeed and be all that, if this year is going to be as successful as we hope, good things happen, price to pay comes with it. reality is you don’t pick and choose who does what, they need who gives them best chance to be their best players period, it’s a wait and see game, assess then react to whatever happens. Personally, i hope to see them need to pay those bonuses and have to deal with that problem, because it means this season will be fun and successful. Worst thing that could happen then would be get caught with a big overage and need a big cap dump, being prepared is alot better.
Wrap, yea I asked for that info so thanks guys for posting it in detail like that.
Good posts and knowledge of how player bonuses work ad what ones we have.
Thanks guys appreciate that.
Agree Ian. Like when Stan talked about the Toews and Kane Bonuses in 2010. Or Panarin more recently. You don’t look at them like a hindrance. They’ll gladly pay that money because it means they’ve got a player that deserves them and exceeded expectations. Deal with it if and when it comes.
If they’re a fringe team with some of the bonuses possibly hitting. I could see them trading Crawford. Future assets and breathing room. And still have a vezina caliber goalie if they make the playoffs
Treliving saying Flames looking to trade fo left D help, wonder if Bowman will be in on potential talks.
Didn’t see the left specific part. Valimaki tore his ACL and happens to be a left shot. But the Flames have Giordano, Brodie, and Hanifin all left shots. Brodie is kind of weird in that he prefers to play on the right side. But the Flames really only have 3 right D anyway.
If the Hawks are in on any trade there it’s probably not a big one. Both teams are tight to the cap after Tkachuk signs.
We sign another defenceman.
I believe Philip Holm chose Vancouver over the Hawks and a few other teams two years ago. So he’s been on their radar for a few years now.
It looks like a depth move but you would have to think Holm plays in the top four in Rockford.
Anyway we trade Perlini to CAL with that Defensemen thing.