Blackhawks Burned By Flames Again
On Saturday night in Calgary, coach Joel Quenneville sat Ryan Hartman, Patrick Sharp and Michal Kempny. The Hawks desperately needed two points in regulation and got… one point in an overtime loss.
On Tuesday night back at the United Center, the Hawks were once again in search of a regulation win. But this time, the scratches were Lance Bouma, Tommy Wingels and Connor Murphy.
Michael Ferland went to the box at 1:56 and the Blackhawks actually took advantage. Alex DeBrincat put home his 19th of the season while on the advantage and Chicago had an early lead.
Jordan Oesterle and Jonathan Toews picked up the assists.
Later in the first, the Hawks had to kill an extended two-man advantage with two defensemen – Erik Gustafsson and Brent Seabrook – going to the box 20 seconds apart. Chicago was able to kill the power plays and hang onto the one goal lead through the end of the period thanks to Jeff Glass’ strong play.
Chicago had an 11-6 shot advantage in the first, and Toews won all seven of his faceoffs; his teammates were 2-9 at the dot in the opening 20 minutes.
Dougie Hamilton tied the game at one only 70 seconds into the second period.
Four minutes into the second period things took a hard left turn. A flurry of action in front of the Calgary net resulted in players all over the ice and the puck in the net behind Mike Smith. The ruling on the ice was that Ryan Hartman had scored for the first time since Dec. 29.
But then the Flames challenged the play.
But then the officials went to the monitor… and announced the league office wanted to take a look at it before the Flames could challenge.
The league ruled it was a good goal.
And then the Flames challenged.
What felt like a half hour after the puck went into the net, the ruling was announced: there apparently was enough goaltender interference on the play that there was no goal. Nevermind that TJ Brodie was pulling Hartman down by the back of his jersey, which caused the contact. So much for that All-Star weekend conversation between the players, officials and commissioner’s office, eh?
Chicago failed on two power plays later in the period and Calgary was unsuccessful on their only advantage of the second as the middle stanza took for. ev. er. to conclude. The Hawks carried a 23-12 shot advantage to the third period, but the score was tied.
The Hawks had 1:57 of a power play carry over to start the third period but they wasted it.
Neither side was able to generate a goal more than 13 minutes to open the period before Hamilton went to the box with 6:43 left in regulation. Early on the Hawks’ advantage both Troy Brouwer and Artem Anisimov went to their respective boxes after getting mixed up between the benches.
Chicago wasted their fifth power play of the night with Hamilton in the box.
With 3:30 left in regulation, Johnny Gaudreau was eventually credited with tipping a shot past Glass and into the net for the would-be go-ahead goal.
The Blackhawks challenged that Stone hit the puck with a high stick. This review took about 30 seconds.
The officials disagreed with the Blackhawks. It was a good goal. And the Hawks were down 2-1 late in a must-win game at home against the Calgary Flames.
Sean Monahan added a goal into the empty net with 1:51 left.
Patrick Kane scored with 6.1 seconds left in regulation to make the score 3-2, but it was too little, too late. And many of the fans who paid good money to watch the game at the United Center had already headed for their cars by the time Kane scored his 21st of the season.
Nick Schmaltz and Anisimov were credited with assists on the goal.
Oesterle had an assist and blocked seven shots in 26:06. Toews won 18 of 26 at the dot and had an assist in 19:43. Glass made 20 saves against 22 shots and took the loss.
The officials will be the focus of many of the comments by fans because they had a direct role in two goals being awarded/taken away – the result of the game.
But at the end of the day the Blackhawks have to win these games at home and they were only able to generate two goals in a game that saw them have five power plays.
time to start looking to needs/trades/ possible draft pick targets…
dump some “core $$$$”– please
Let’s face it-the power play has let this team and their fans down all year.
The Hawks were unlucky-yes, but it’s been a year of excuses. Any hope to make playoffs fading…..fast
A top ten pick is the best thing for this team.
Noonan I agree with you, at this stage the higher draft pick would mean a lot for the future. I don’t understand how you dress Kempny and only play him 10 minutes. I know Glass is a great story and he has played well but he’s 32 Forsberg should have the net till Crow comes back to determine what he’s got. When you can’t win at home or against teams you need to catch it’s time to look to the future. I love the Hawks but this time they just don’t have what it takes to get over the hump.
The pitiful truth is ,.,.,Q needs to go .
He has lost the core , when the core stops working coach change required .
The benching ,line changes ,dog house routine , putter in the blender every bloody game bullshit ,has not worked since game 10 .
Does Bowman have the balls to do it ? Bet not ,.,.,he`ll keep this pity train a rolling ,sucking the life outta every one of our boys .
We have a great group of kids coming up the line ,.,Don`t damage our tender hopefuls .
Hard to accept Saad playing just a little over 7 minutes, Sharp 8, Jurco 9??? This is crazy. If Bouma and Wingels were in the linuep, this coach would have had them play all over 10 minutes. Plus, the Toews, DeBrincat and Duclair line were all minus -2 this evening. Sorry, but Saad plays hard and has not had any puck luck. But to see Anisimov get 19 minutes? At a turtle like slow pace? Saad deserves a chance to get out of this funk. Thus, I believe Q has lost the room and Stan Bowman with his ridiculous signings at the beginning of the year, Kero, Franson, Bouma, Wingels and Osterle has lost credibility. Breaking up Panarin and Kane is the reason our PP is horrible. Toews is a second line centre since 2016. But, having Sharp and Saad play 7 to 8 minutes is a lack of respect towards players who play hard and maybe give you that needed goal. Debrincat (yes he scored but ) was minus -2 but and gets ice time. Saad gets 7 minutes for a so so game in Vancouver? Why?
Makes no sense.
Yes, the PP has been inept all season and it has made a major difference between winning and losing. I’ll go so far to say that despite their other shortcomings, they would be in playoff position if they had just an average PP, versus the clown show that we’ve come to expect.
However, I think the primary reason they are a below average team is their d-zone coverage. They simply can’t or won’t play disciplined structural defense in their own zone. It’s why the other team gets point shots through with such regularity. The Hawk defenders are like headless chickens running around not quite sure what to do. They attempt to double team so often because Hawks players can’t win one-on-one battles which causes a team mate to come to the rescue which starts the fire drill which leads to a good scoring opportunity for the opponent. Repeat multiple times per game.
And what is a post from me lately without some Toews criticism – what exactly was Toews trying to do when he took the puck behind the net and then passed it back toward the neutral zone where Monahan gathered it in and shot in the empty netter to seal the deal for Calgary. Who was Toews passing it to, or did he just plain lose control of the puck as happens so often this season? In any event, Toews wasn’t able to make a play and essentially turned it over leading to the goal against to lose the game.
I still think DeBrincat should play with Schmaltz and Kane. He needs a linemate or two who can play at his level and Kane and Schmaltz are the only other two on the team. Besides getting a team leading 6 SOG tonight to go along with 4 missed shots including one off the pipe, he made several beauty passes that the guy on the other end of the pass couldn’t do anything with.
There has been no consistency no matter who has played or not. So benching this guy again and playing that guy won’t change anything. It’s just one of those years…….. Keep hope alive.
The roster has been changing every game ,.,.,and i don`t mean a player or two ,.,.,Q has had this team spun for a good long time .
Any given game we have 3,4,5,6, different guys in the line up .
I realize we have to introduce new talent but wholly crip ,.,.,we need consistency.
The guy who scored the game winning goal for Calgary was a minus 5 couple games ago v.s. Tampa Bay ,.,.was he scratched,.,.,.NO .he won the game for them
Wall, “dump some “core $$$$”– please” — good luck with that, but yes, “Oh, indeed.”
Hopefully, McMarketingman and Stan B. are not out of touch with reality. They can pretend to keep trying to win/grab that last wild card spot, but play for the draft pick. Also, hopefully, some contenders will OVERpay for whatever the Hawks can move at the deadline…Jurco, Gustafsson, Wingels, Bouma, whoever…Anisimov?
Dickie ,Saad can be moved ,.,.,one of the rare contracts without a n.m.c. Save 6 million bucks and hope he has fun in Colorado . 15 would be another great guy to move , he reminds me of Nash on the Rangers 40 points a year and leave ya wanting more .
We have some great positives coming up and along on this team for sure but Q has not got the ability to manage them .,.,.,not even close .
Close the book on the Q chapter .
The future is hopeful .
If the die isn’t cast already, it will be in another loss or two and then we can get our mindset straight and use the rest of this season to get ready for next season.
First, open up 3 roster spots by getting rid of Sharp, Bouma and Wingels – they have zero worth for next season. Trade them if someone is willing to bite, else send then to Rockford. If you can trade Anisimov before the TDL – do it. That’s 3 or 4 roster spots to use for young players to see how they play in the NHL. Save one spot for Sikura but use the other spots for Hayden and Highmore. Then let them play to see what ya got.
Hinostroza-Toews-Duclair
DeBrincat-Schmaltz-Kane
Hinostroza-Kampf-Jurco
Hayden-Hartman-Highmore
oops – Hinostroza on the 3rd line was supposed to be Sikura.
Hinostroza-Toews-Duclair
DeBrincat-Schmaltz-Kane
Sikura-Kampf-Jurco
Hayden-Hartman-Highmore
Didn’t see game. Tried something diff for good luck. Didn’t work.
League Refs instant replay officials still try to screw us on every replay they can. Remember a couple yrs ago Hoss wind touched goalie and they waived off a good goal. Game 3 NAS we win for not bumping into Crows leg/arm which is fucking goalie interference.
Everytime they can because they can.
It makes you wonder if refs/linesman blow the fucking whistle against TB for hand pass out of zone and icing against TOR for blatant black/white checker board rules and regulation (not judgment do I feel like calling or letting team cheat penalty type calls) of the game. We win those 2 games and are +7 and then we prob win some of these 3 games we were up 1-0 in where around +10 and tied with the other teams.
No not this yr. Everytime they can.
For the coming yrs we are going to have better roster with upside so we can win when they try to screw us and they know it. Like we did on most yrs from 2009-2016.
We deserve a top 8/9 pick with the bounces and calls/blown whistles we got this 82 games. They better not try to take that away from us.
Noonan, I think Bowman and crew will make the right moves again. Draft well get good fa/ufa again. We do almost every yr. No need to get crazy its a fine line but we can take advantage of a bad situation and bad luck and turn it into good thing if were creative deadline wise. It almost sort of seems like it happened for a reason so that there wasn’t any question. Sellers market and we have the goods the guys understand. 57 and 17 and others played well and theres no blame to anyone person PP sucked more then usual but not only thing. It really is just planned to get a top 10 pick/maybe trade up as well have 2 1st picks to go along with Jokeru. Reload and do it strong no fucking around rid the big wave coming for us.
Lol. 2 months ago I said dump the contracts. And now some of u are realizing that the super stars got old and complacent !! Here’s the absolute worse thing of all. We traded Panarin and now there’s talk of moving Saad. I was done with this team after that move !! Every year this team loses a solid player. This team got worse ‘. Dump 30 mil in cap now that u can add Saad in the mix of the veterans! Grab young free agents at the end of season ! It’s time to face reality!
Q pulled Glass too soon. No consistency in our play. Let’s chalk this season up to getting our youth used to playing an entire NHL schedule and used to playing NHL hockey. Let’s make a few moves, get Crow back healthy and see where next year takes us.
Pitchers and catchers report next week!!
The superstars did not get old (many a pro NHL player in recent years have performed well, and well into their late 30’s); they (physically and/or mentally) allowed the ever-evolving game to speed past them over the last 10 months. They’re not alone. The relative speed increase in the NHL game happened very, very quickly. They’re retooling nicely with youth/speed IMHO, and the high paids need to man up if they are physically able, which they should be for the most part, sans #7. Of course, we heard that from #19 last summer.
Don’t blame the Refs, or “Bad bounces”. Those sound like Bill Wirtz era excuses. This just isn’t a good team this year. Regardless of who is playing on what line, and what D-man is sitting, the Hawks have been unsuccessful. I don’t know who could be moved, especially with the no trade clauses. Some of these guys the Hawks will have to hire a Hit Man to get rid of. I agree with an earlier poster, let’s just play Forsberg in goal as much as possible. Let’s find out if he can be a legit NHL goalie.
Bryan Bickell was on WGN radio the morning of this particular game, talking about his foundation. When asked about the Blackhawks’ woes, his exact quote was;
“It’s tough. These guys are getting older. They’re getting older and they’re not getting faster. The game is all about speed now.”
I don’t think Bickell has anything against his old mates. I think he’s just telling the truth.
Not wanting to be Debbie Downer here but with these continued losses, 28ish games left and the all important need to win games in the Western Conference, it is looking like the Hawks are going to be mathematically eliminated from the playoff hopes soon.
The rest of the NHL has caught up to the Hawks play style. Youth is good but our highly paid players aren’t producing, making lack of focus mistakes and many are getting long in the tooth and can’t keep up.
Sorry, but I am still upset that Panarin was traded. That was a BIG mistake – and don’t give me the cap issue crap.
Losing Hossa to LTIR is probably the most heart breaking and significant loss – his quiet leadership on the ice and in the locker room, two way player, etc. He is surely missed.
Bowman’s promise at the end of last season, hasn’t panned out.
We are done for this season. I am probably going to sell my last game ticket I have for this season. Not worth paying to see a team looking like this.
Not blaming tbut there was a lot more then normal this yr and it added to what we already had going on. It was a big part in it. Going forward for coming yrs no excuses we wont get the short end like this on that stuff. Its against the odds.
Hope the draft pick makes this better.
Reg-I’m with you on the nicer weather and baseball-
with the Hawks I think it was ER that talked about there poor d-zone coverage-is some of this the youth, 2 and 7 losing a step or two, no 4, and no Crow to stabilize things-yes, but it has to run deeper than that-structure, practice, coaching…
3 things will be critical to win in the future-great team defense, speed and really solid goaltending.
I think getting a goalie to replace 50 is crucial-IF he comes back and gets back to his old self (which was MVP worthy) he will be too old, already 33 to count on in a couple of years. If they like Forsberg enough he can be the back up of the future.
Can they luck out and find one?
I love the concept of Kane and D-Cat together, with 8 in the middle-but worry about the lack of size-actually of the top 6 presented– I hope hey have a top six guy, or get/draft one that has really nice size and strength but can play—like a Stone , Simmonds, E. Kane or Benn.
I know that’s dreaming..
I still think they’re missing a little nasty to their game
Ok I will say it. The Hartman goal disallowed was ridiculous. It’s a goal on the ice, the ref goes to center ice saying it’s a good goal, and then all of a sudden it’s league reviewed goalie interference call that stands to wipe off the goal. What did all of this take time wise? I’d say 10 minutes of looking at people sitting around you saying WTF is going on. Even at the UC we got to see an actual replay last night in live time that clearly showed not only was Hartman pushed into Smith, but Smith actually pushed Hartman away! Then Smith falls down and rolls on the ice! Have we seen this picture before!!!!! Hawks don’t get the lead, the air sucked out of the building and we dance around into the 3rd period. Anyone’s game for the taking. We know the result.
Never mind the Flames stick above cross bar that got Johnny Hockey the go ahead. That ref crew last night was another shit show of NHL officiating. They better get this goalie interference rule sorted out in a hurry or we will see the Cup won or lost on one of those crap baffling decisions.
I have pretty much thrown in the towel on the season regarding playoffs, but will keep going to the games. SOOOO many games lost that could have been won. Points gone by the way side. Complete opposite of last year when they seemed to pull games out of the fire at will with comebacks in the 3rd. We all know the list of reasons these games are not being won. It has been sad to watch, especially players like Toews, Seabs and Keith. Quick note on Seabrook. Did anyone else notice the horrifically bad 3 passes in a row he made in the 1st period. Not even close to intended targets. How can that be apart from a lack of concentration?
Core guys play has fallen off the cliff, young guys showing they can play. Teams need both to succeed. Back at it tomorrow night in, yes another game they need to win.
Lets Go Hawks!
Phil- well put ” Core guys falling off a cliff” !!!!
And- with all of SB’s NMC/gifts (SB- hands those out like Trophies to the 8 year old’s at local YMCA- for participating!!!) …. I don’t see how Hawks get out of this in near future???
SB last off season can be summed up in one observation. 4th line of Saad, Sharp and Jurco with 8 min of ice time.
D-kat should line up with players that have the skill level to play with him. Toews is not improving his line mates. D-kat should be on the Kane line. The remainder of the year should be spent developing the young players.
Speaking of Q’s line up decisions, WTF is his problem with Kempny. Is it that he has such confidence in Keith and Seabs that Kempny only skates 11 min. Really? You are stuck with Keith and Seabs, scale their minute back to 18 and get quality not quantity from them. Let your young d-men develop with playing time. If Q can not figure this out he needs to go sooner than later.
Hawks outhit last night 32 to 7. Pathetic!!
re: NMCs – just a reminder that those can be waived – and are all the time (see Campbell, Brian). The Rangers asked Rick Nash for his list this week.
If you’re complaining about hit totals your fandom is misguided.
Manson – agree re: Kempny, he will be a solid top 4 D man someday soon — just not in Chicago. What a waste of a talented player Bowman found.
Speaking of Q (why did Kempny play only ten or so minutes, ask Q), he seems resigned to the Hawks’ fate. When the Hawks have been wronged in the past on video reviews, Q usually has been highly spirited (i.e. pissed off) on the bench and post-game. Last night, he was as calm as he’s ever been discussing same.
Someone posted re: Q’s time being up here; who knows –hate to see that. As he loves to say, we’ll see.
There’s no way you fire Q at this point. Just last year we were first place with 109 points and winning close games. This year with SB’s knee-jerk reaction to getting ousted in the 1st round he makes some bad moves (Hjalmarsson trade???) I’m resigned to not making the playoffs, just make good moves before the TD and get more draft picks to rebuild. Yep there is some decline in our veteran group but you need balance to win championships, don’t go with youth for the sake of getting younger guy’s. I’m really not sold on how good SB really is, the core we have have is still more of Tallon’s doing that SB’s. Guess we’ll see soon enough what SB is made of has he now has the task of getting us through this on his own.
Q will be fiercely loyal to guys like Duncs, Seabs, Toews, etc because he got to where he is, 3 time Cup winner, because of them. He did bench Seabs, so he sees what we see, but when he looks at his other options, he understandably is not hopeful. I agree there should be more balance with the D minutes, but at the same time, their D core lacks talent. No way around that. We are short probably a top pair D man and at least one second pair dman. You can’t coach around that kind of deficiency in your roster.
I agree with the posters saying that d zone coverage, or lack thereof, is killing this team. Eddie O went on a rant the other night saying the same thing. Winning teams in the NHL don’t give up the type and quantity of chances this team does night after night. Is that Q’s fault? Q’s teams for the past eight years at least have done much better in this area. To me this comes down to personnel and experience. Everyone has to be thinking the same way and know where to go to defend at a high level. I don’t see that with this team at all. And as exciting as the young players are, they have not had to defend at this high of a level before and they are on a learning curve.
I think the vets slowing down won’t hurt as much if you can surround them with fast, dynamic, GOOD young players. This team needs an infusion of talent. A high pick, along with moving some players and picking up a couple 2nds at least in the draft, would help. Don’t think they Hawks are getting a first at the trade deadline, NHL teams stopped giving out 1st rounders in trade deadline deals a couple years ago. It is rare now and we aren’t moving anyone good enough to warrant it.
I hope everyone can appreciate how LUCKY the Hawks are that Dcat was able to make the jump from Junior to the NHL in his draft year. VERY rare for a 2nd round pick. How much worse would we be without that kid? We need to get lucky like that again next year, and the more picks we have, the better our chances. We got Hino in the 6th round so I’ll even take low round picks for guys like Bouma, Wingles.
@TAB
Certainly hits are not directly indicative of a good hockey team, reference Blues during the Backes years. However I think it is an indication of a teams enthusiasm toward the game. If playing with speed and desire you will run into people on the ice. One of the bloggers coined the term “human pinball” for this era’s hockey which I tend to agree with.
The Hawks avoid contact at all costs now. I refer back to Sedin’s goal a week ago with him standing in front of the net un-checked with Keith standing off to the side. Sedin is not known as a brute but still he is left unchecked. I know it is only one play but its a Sedin sister. Hawks may not have the wheels and skill to keep up but show some heart. The lack of physical play certainly is another symptom of the Hawks issues and fans have noticed.
Go Hawks
Someone brought up Foley the other day. I hate the excuses that have been coming out of his mouth lately. Bad calls are going to happen. Hell my kid is a squirt and almost every game has horrible calls. Good teams over come. Then the post game crew gets out there more bitching and moaning. Talk about a bad listen. They scored 1 goal in 59 mins not enough period! Toews give away to Monahan was brutal. Qs lineup brutal. Next 2 games are telling. Even if they win both (they wont) they are still in trouble. They have about 5-10 L left before it’s over.
One thing I heard was part of the Hawks puck possession philosophy is that hits are not correlated to winning. You often see the team with the most hits lose because they don’t have the puck. Also, you risk injury. So they have had designated roles for certain guys to do most of the hitting, while the skill guys don’t. Byfuglien, Ladd, Brouwer’s roles became Bickell, Shaw, etc. They would wait till the playoffs and amp up the hitting to soften up the other team’s d core, but still mostly the responsibility of those select guys.
In front of the net, some teams have the philosophy of moving the screening guy out of the way. The Hawks feel that if you try to move him, you have two guys blocking the goalie’s view, not one. They may try to position themselves to tie up a stick to prevent deflections, etc, but lots of times it seems they are leaving the guy there so the goalie can have a better chance to see the puck.
I know, doesn’t always work, but it depends on what your philosophy is. I am sure there is a lot of work done to study stats and things to determine what the best approach is. But these things are not new to the Hawks this year. They have been doing them all through the Cup years too.
How did the league not catch the goalie interference when they reviewed the Hartman goal the first time and confirmed the call on the ice? Do they not look at all criteria for overturning a goal when reviewing goals? If you are not going to look at all aspects of a overturning a goal under review why bother doing it at all? It is a complete waste of time to look at a goal, make a determination, then look at it again with a different set of criteria to make a second determination. The league looks like an idiot for saying, “yup refs were right, that is a good goal, oh wait, my bad, there was interference, no goal.” Morons.
Trades for immediate or and/future help can be made AA , Saad and Murphy moveable and nmc with control over where they go if needed. Possiblity of a very high end no. 1 pick who can help as early as next year. Ability to sign free agents who can help, 6m give or take without moving any cap hits. Probably be able to have ability to use most of Hossa’s ltir next season if situation calls for it. Lots of doors open for a fairly quick turn around here.
I was trying to figure out how this train came off the tracks. Remember the first game of the year? I watched the game and then told my wife to get ready for another Stanley Cup parade!! We had everything going for us…….size, speed, skill, goaltending………we were AWESOME!! Remember the game against Columbus when Panik knocked Seth Jones into next week, stole the puck and scored? I kept thinking that THIS was the team that we had hoped for.
Was Tortorella right about Saad? Does he really play like a guy who is 5′ 8″ and 160LBS.? Was the biggest knuclehead behind a players bench actually right about Brandon Saad?
Where is our Johnny Toews? Where is the leader of our team? Is he really feeling the effects of 2 bad concussions or is his time really over?
Where is Duncan Keith? Is the guy who barely missed a shift when he lost 7 teeth a distant memory in Hawks folklore? Where is the fleet footed Michigan State Alum?
Lastly, where is my wife’s “dream boy” Brent Seabrook? Did the guy who scored so many big goals in his career and who told our captain to get his head out of his butt, check out of this season back in October?
Where are these guys????
The players that I knew FOUND A WAY TO WIN!!
Where did they go?
Watching Anisimov try to keep up with Kane and Schmaltz reminds me of Handzus trying to keep up with Kane.
Reg, you know the answer. It’s all about Father Time. Some great players have lost 2% of their speed and reaction time. Meanwhile, the league is 2% faster than a few years ago. With the parity in the league, that is all it takes.
I think they still have good games and great plays ahead of them. Unfortunately, too few and too far between.
I just hope the Hawks don’t get stuck as a middle of the pack team for 10 years. Management is the key now. Based on the decisions over the last few years, I’m not confident with SB bringing this team back.
Nothing left to do but try to dump some salary and keep depending on youth and speed. I do not agree with moving Murphy or Saad. Anisimov is another story.
We have to rebuild, and it won’t be easy because we need to do it while Kane still has some gas in the tank, as he seems to be our only remaining core member (except for Crow) who still seems capable of playing to the pace of this league.
And hereismike is right about Dcat. We are lucky he has delivered more than any of the naysayers predicted. Maybe we’ll get lucky again with Sikura, or Highmore, and let’s not forget the potential that Duclair brings. I expect great things from him.
Excuses about calls and all the rest don’t work. Nobody in the league is shedding tears for the Hawks. Let’s just hope that SB is able to remedy this fast or else we are in for another long drought.
I think a more even distribution of minutes to bottom 2 lines and 3rd D pair and allow the core players more controlled minutes, hopefully leading to more effective play out of them and not wear them down. With maturity of the younger guys who are here for long haul and the right adds through different avenues available, outlook could be alot brighter than it appears right now.
Are Kane and Toews tradeable? In other words, would they agree to a trade?
I don’t believe the Hawks can rebuild in time to take advantage of Kane while he is still a star. Toews, on a real contender could put them over the top as a 2nd line center.
In return, a solid young blue chip defenceman, a first round pick, a few top prospects and cap relief.
No, it doesn’t make the Hawks better over the next two years. However, it would (should) pay off over five years.
My concern is that this approach didn’t work for the Oilers. I guess it boils down to luck with how the prospects and picks work out.
For those who think trading these two is a non starter, get over it. I would rather watch them win a cup with another team than die with a mediocre Hawk team.
@ BLS2
Tradable players in my opinion in order based on age, position, stats, and contract
Crowford-if healthy
Keith
Kane
Saad
Murphy
Anisimov
Kempny
Ruttu
Toews
Seabroke
Iceman you and I agree re: Kempny and I would add Murphy to the list just to give the D-men a breather. You need to be playing your younger players as much as possible. Forsberg should have the net till Crow comes back if he does. Glass is a nice story but he’s 32 and not the teams future. I’ve said this before if there are players in Rockford who deserve a look bring them up and play them. If your going to play Osterle 26 minutes you could drop some of those minutes to Kempny and Murphy. I’ve always been a Q supporter but I don’t understand some of his personnel decisions this year. You could even cut back some of Keith’s minutes to keep him fresh. If you can trade Bouma, Wingels, Anisimov or Sharp do it and use this season as a wash and a look to the future! If you can move a core player for the right deal do it like Tab said SB did it with Brian Campbell’s contract. Love the Hawks but I want them to be proactive roster wise.
Tony- I like your 3rd paragraph…
Re: Sikura- at Camp… he was head and shoulders more skilled skater/stick handling/vision- than all other prospects… Dcat- makes passes/shots at quick speed (but really doesn’t Carry it well)… Sikura had that Kane-like ability, albeit– Versus other prospects to skate/weave/and dangle the puck with his head up the whole time…
we shall see how Sikura- NHL translate
When you look at the lack of urgency to try to a?dress issues this season before Crawford s injury. From not addressing needs on the ice from lack of faceoff center behind Toews to Keith having sub quality partners, no shutdown ability on defense. Through the coaching approach and lack of urgency in veterans, it seems like assessing what parts are there is the main concern. No doubt the play of some players and lack of pp among others were disappointments. But unloading Panarins and Hammers contracts for locked in deals has allowed Bowman the ability to be in a good position to address what is lacking this off season.
Whether right or wrong and time will tell but i believe that was intentional and a complete dismantling is probably not be in the plans this off season.
The Saad trade was a solid gamble. His career was on an upward trajectory the past 5 years. How could SB or anyone else know that Saad would have a down year.
Mike R- The 88/15/72 line was the best in the NHL last year. Several people on this blog questioned the Saad/Panarin trade immediately when it was made for the following reasons- 1- The chemistry between 88&72. 2- 72 had elite offensive skills. 3- Saad was a good skater but does not have the shot, hands or vision of 72. 4- Saad will not be as offensively productive as Panarin AND the loss off 72 will impact Kane’s production. The Saad/Panarin trade was terrible. The results of this trade are not a surprise to me.
What could you get for 19 in a trade?
Manson – good point re: Oesterle and the heavy minutes he is playing. He is a decent D-man, 5-6 pairing at 14-18 mins per game, that would be ideal for him.
Every D-man (even including Franson until he got hurt) has been allowed to “run with it” so to speak, play a steady 10 to 20 games in a row (excluding Keith & Seabrook who are in a special category) except for Kempny. He has done absolutely nothing that we all see during the games to warrant being treated like a vagrant by Q for hockey coach – hockey player purposes.
There has to be something personal that transpired b/w Q & Kempny that has led to the unfair treatment of Kempny from a player-coach standpoint. Q is not stupid, he can evaluate who can play and who can’t play; that being said, he has a stubborn streak, and we’ve seen that with other players in the past.
The catalyst for this crap of a season was the 72 for 20 trade , when i heard about it on the radio i was disapponted because it was so much fun watching Kaner and the Breadman do their magic. it was the same punch in the gut as the Byfuglien deal. we all know the Hawks or any other team cant be expected to win the cup every year in the cap era , angst about the teams situation, would be a lot less if they were an exciting bunch , just think about the teams mentality , knowing theyre not out of any game as long as 88 and 72 were on the bench. excitement breeds winning, yessir
I am not sure if we have ever outhit the other team, even in our 52-22 2010 and are 21-0-3 start seasons.
Phil, feel the same way. Not blaming refs/instant replay officials/linesman but there bullshit has cost us a lot of games we would have won. As well as the things we didn’t do good and are not good at. Need to get better. Keep improving. We make the right moves to get back to top 5 team.
I know core guys have been through more then any team in hockey history. Just cant believe their that off. Somebody get them the coolaid. The good stuff to. Some of that Kaner colar bone medicine. Hoss is a big team player.
Wall keep posting about the prospects you know a lot good info.
If 72 was that big a deal we can get him back when hes ufa or a big ufa center number 91. What do we need. A top pair Dman.
Ian what ufa top pair D guys this summer of next summer. Defensive defenseman.
Ian your right we can add a lot depending on what we do. It does seem like we were taking our hit at once then add big with young guys upside every yr. Seemed like what we did in 2011.
Tony and Ian I donot think we need to panic and trade those kind of players. We can always do that later if we need to. Lets add at draft/summer with the loads of space were going to have and go from there.
I bet our core guys want a chance to redeems themselves. Whether that’s now or more like the season coming up when we have a deep roster.
If Capitals don’t reup John Carlson he would be my pick. Could really solidify things back there. More of a shutdown type so he would fill Hammers spot. Talk is he would want 6 to 6.5 per year to sign somewhere. Haven’t heard they are talking yet but some think he will stay with Caps.
I’m intrigued by Max Domi being available after this year. He could be a terrific addition to the youth-speed transition, plus his familiarity with Murphy and Duclair. A three year pro at 22, can play center or wing, is tough as nails. His contract is still entry level so doable for us. Probably would have to give up too much to get him, though maybe not. I would love to see SB try another deal with our trading partners in AZ.
Carlson also brings alot of offense too Mo, just meant strong in own end.
I questioned if Panarin trade was a good one or not too. Schmaltz has 15 g and 4pp goals this season to Panarins 13g and 5 pp goals. Now what his numbers with Kane would be who knows. Kane though on a pace for his 3rd best year of his career in goals and points, just been a puzzling streaky year for him. So losses may be minimal with Schmaltz developing into a top 2 center of future. Saads filling the void Hossa left has definitely missed the mark and that has hurt. Maybe the bright side is to be is the draft lottery gives Bowman the 4th or 5th pick, can you say Brady Tkachuk.
I like those ideas. Bowman can be creative like that and not just have to only do draft where people say hes done poor and we have no cupboard good prospects.
Trade add assets and get ufa for free. Use assets and get guy like Domi.
The Saad trade looked good when we made it because of the long term money and the playoff intensity difference between the two players (a small sample size, no doubt). Granted everyone was a bit upset after we got clubbed out of the playoffs last year by Nashville, but the sentiment seemed to me to be basically in favor of the trade for those reasons. I was for it, though a part of me was nervous. I’m still for it, because no matter what we know now that we didn’t know then about the seasons our teams would be having, it’s irrelevant. Stan made the right move, and maybe he was so shrewd that he planned to get Panarin back when he becomes available in a year (which I would love, and everyone on this chain would, too), but I doubt it. I don’t think anyone anticipated the drop in Saad’s performance. But he will recover. He is young and motivated and he’s just having a bad year. We just got him back, and he was inserted into the chaos of our transition, and it’s been tough on him. He’s a pivotal piece here and if we give up on him now, we’ll be sorry.
Looking at CapFriendly.com, of the 23 players currently on the roster, only 13 are under contract next season – 7 forwards (19/88/20/15/64/8/12), 4 d-men (2/7/5/82) and 2 goalies (50/31). Plus they still have Hossa who would still need to be put on LTIR so that his $5.275M cap hit is off the books. With Hossa on LTIR, the Hawks have about $58M tied up in those 13 players. If the Cap goes up to $78M, they will have about $20M so sign the rest of their roster – RFA’s Duclair, Hinostroza, Hartman, Jurco and Gustafsson. The UFA’s they may want to keep are Rutta and Kempny. If they sign all of them, the roster would stand at 20 – 11 forwards, 7 d-men and 2 goalies. The still need either 3 more forwards or 2 forwards and 1 d-man. Sikura may take one of those forward spots.
But then … we have pretty much the same team as this season – where’s the improvement going to come from. Inexperienced players should get a little bit better – but is that enough? Probably not.
sheesh … what to do, what to do?
They said cap might go way up 82. 82 80 or 78 possible. I still looks like we ll have a lot because we prob make a move/moves to besides just resign guys and have same roster.
At 20m to sign 9 guys (13/7/2) resign 5 of those guys for 1 each.
We have 15m to sign 4 guys that’s good. At 82m that’s 19m to sign 4 guys.
How is having 20m for 9 guys not a big improvement. 9m for 9 guys would be not be so hot. Cap 82 that’s 24m for 9 guys.
Say 5m for 5 those 1m type contracts leaves us with a whopping 15m for 4 guys.
That’s four 4m players or (at 82m) that four 5m players.
Saader is having on off yr just like every core player did during their prime of prime yrs. Each guy had one. Hes to good and one of the best two way players in league when he plays as good as he really is. Hes got as many prime yrs left as 72 does. Having an off yr for him might be a good thing. Now he will be pissed a little. And playing good again when it matter more/when the younger guys are better.
We know what 20 has done in playoff style hockey. 72 hasn’t yet. I like both guys.
During the first couple of weeks of the season this team looked great. Guys were around the net, goals were being scored, the team seemed to have an attitude that the playoff debacle of the past season was behind them. They looked pretty solid. The Saad trade looked like just what the team needed. He was everywhere.
Ever since then, though, this entire season has just baffled me.
Yes it was encouraging-and every so often you see little 5/10 minute signs of that great start in certain games.
But the older players who have been there-done that, lack the motivation and fitness to play that way day in day out and the young guys lack the seasoning and been there already to know what to do–as someone on TV in Canada said–they have young and old, no in between due to the cap realities of their great run and contracts.
I marveled at Saad in the OHL even before he was drafted and then when he was–he was a Man-Child with great speed and power. He would start at his own blueline and every so often run you over if you got in the way. And the next time just buzz by right to the net
Looking back on the Saad trade I still think it was the right move. SB is looking at playoff success and Saads 2014 & 2015 playoffs was about as strong as anyone had. Some guys play bigger in the playoffs. Saad is one of those guys. If SB can some capture both a 2nd & 3rd round pick for someone on the team I’d be pretty happy. Bottom line this team is not 1 or 2 players away from a contender. They likely need 2 or 3 defenseman. 1 or both which can QB a PP. I think they need another top6 center. I prefer Schamaltz on wing. They probably need another top 6 winger so they can move DuClair to the 3rd line. I think DuClair is a guy who can probably play top 6 but on a cup team is probably a 3rd line player. I’ll be curious to see how active SB is around the deadline.
Saad has 24 points so far this year, 8 of them (including 6 goals) came in the first 6 games. He has only 12 points since then Coach Q has him riding the 4th line so clearly the coach thinks the issue lies with the player. I am not sure what he was doing differently those first 6 games, but my bet is that he was hanging around the front of the net a lot more than he is now. Unless there is an undiagnosed illness or injury that is preventing him from being that physical presence, I have to think that this is correctable on his part.
16, not 12, math is my strong point don’cha know?
My point though remains. In 6 games he scored 8 points. It took him 45 games to double that amount. This has to be correctable on his part.
Ian- besides Tkachuk… that Zadina/Czech kid- Gonna be a Hell of a player…
Hope hawks can land that kid in draft… fast/with great shot /release, decent size
As we begin the weekly crying about players who have left (btw Marcus Kruger is on waivers), let’s also remember the context of when the Saad-Panarin trade was made. Because it’s important that we view the trade for when it happened as much as the results since then.
The Blackhawks felt they had a dynamic winger coming in Alex DeBrincat who would, eventually, play a comparable role offensively to what the Hawks got from Panarin. To date:
Panarin – 53 games, 13 goals, 29 assists, 42 points – age 26 – cap hit: $6.0M
DeBrincat – 53 games, 19 goals, 15 assists, 34 points – age 20 – cap hit: $778,333
The Blackhawks also knew they needed to replace Marian Hossa. It’s easy to see how they could think that was possible based on Saad’s past play here and in Columbus. What Bowman didn’t / couldn’t anticipate is that Saad would have some of the best puck possession numbers in the NHL but couldn’t produce anything offensively. Chicago needed a young power forward to step into the role that Hossa had played and it made sense to turn (back) to Saad – at the time. Also, remember that Saad is still younger than Panarin as well.
Yeah him and Dahlin likely go 1, 2 say Dahlin franchise type Dman looks like top pick. There’s alot of top end potential talent available in first 10 or 12 picks.
We have been making the right moves. Do not stop.
We deserve one of those high end prospects after the crap we had to deal with this yr which led us to record wise. We should get rewarded accordingly.