Blackhawks Fall To Wild In Overtime
The Blackhawks and Wild went to overtime for a second time in three playoff games on Sunday afternoon. This time, the Wild were able to emerge victorious.
Corey Crawford had to carry the Blackhawks through most of the regulation periods, making 34 saves against 36 shots and dealing with a lot of traffic throughout. The two goals for the Wild in the first 60 minutes were nearly identical – backhand shots over Crawford’s left (glove) shoulder – but Crawford was able to stand strong.
In the overtime, Jason Zucker snuck a puck between Crawford and the post to win the game.
For the Hawks, both regulation goals came from defensemen off cross-ice passes from Patrick Kane. Johnny Oduya opened the scoring in the first period, and Duncan Keith tied the game with less than three minutes remaining in the third. For Kane, the two assists give him five through three games against Minnesota.
On the Keith’s goal, NBC did a good job of showing Cal Clutterbuck mugging Jonathan Toews in front of the Wild bench as the two were going off for a change. That play delayed the Wild change, leaving Keith wide open. Clutterbuck targeted Toews throughout the game, and was credited with a game-high eight hits in the contest.
Hitting was made a key for Minnesota by coach Mike Yeo coming in, and the players were on the attack throughout the game. The Wild out-hit the Hawks 34-13 in the game, and took control of the game in a second period that was dominated by the home team. In the middle frame, Minnesota out-shot the Hawks 14-8 and owned every zone of the ice.
One of the players Minnesota needed to improve between Game Two and Game Three was their captain, Mikko Koivu, and he responded. After two tough games at the dot, Koivu won 15 of 20 faceoffs and was credited with three hits. The ref stopped play to talk to Koivu before dropping the puck on at least four occasions, but he was allowed to continue with the draw each time.
Minnesota dominated the Hawks at the dot, led by Koivu. Toews was the only Hawks center to win more than half of his faceoffs (13 of 24 on Sunday), as the Wild won 40 of 72 in Game Three.
The Blackhawks powerplay continued to do nothing, failing on both advantages. However, Chicago’s penalty kill was successful all three times Minnesota had the advantage.
looks like the Wild watched tape on how to beat Hawks… pressure and hit the D-Men behind our net until they cough up the puck…
Hossa is my favorite Hawk- but he really had a bad game- and this was one of my concerns coming into playoffs. Hossa is smart- he knows the hitting/Wild would be twice as aggressive on home ice- (it was!)
The whole 1st line has been pretty much shut down- so PP better step up- or Bolland better be able to play soon – so Q can juggle lines a bit more… Cuz the 1st line has been ZERO- except when Kane skates on it!!!
Smith for Bollig – please- or Morin- and Morin would be an asset on PP- just don’t know if he would be as responsible as Smith…
It seemed like the Hawk’s puck possession game was frustrated somewhat by not holding the puck in the offensive zone multiple times at the blue line. Momentum appeared to be lost after those events. It felt like the Hawks were going to have a hard time scoring when Kane wasn’t on the ice.
Biggest issue with the first line has been Toews. He’s basically been a no-show through the first 3 games. The Hawks can beat the Wild with him playing like this, but he needs to be more involved moving forward if the Hawks want a chance to win the Cup.
Crawford was the only reason they were in it. Probably should have had the last one but Oduya can’t let a guy on his stomach with one hand on his stick center a pass through him.
I don’t think the Wild were more physical, they had just as many hits in game 1. They certainly changed their forechecking strategy and now Q will have to figure out how to beat it.
I think Q should have changed up lines a lot earlier in the game. They were obviously stagnant on offense and Handzus had his worst game as a Hawk. I’ll be interested to see if there are any changes to the lines before Tuesday.
I still think Hawks in 5.
Kudos to CC for playing well and keeping the Hawks in it…and to Kane and Sharp for playing well, but after that, it was a pretty slim list.
Minnesota simply wanted it more than the Hawks, the Hawks failed to answer and the game ended. As Wall said, there is a recipe to beat the Hawks, and its pressure our DMen…Oduya melted under the pressure and gave up the game winner on a BRUTAL giveaway…it is what it is…
Toews is my favourite player…maybe of all time, so it’s hard to critique him, but unless he shows up to play every night, this team won’t win…he is glue that holds this group together, and he’s usually the spoon that stirs the pot. But he hasn’t been this series, and Hossa’s starting to sense it as is Saad. Toews and Co. have to take a day to regain their edge and then come out like gangbusters Tuesday to push this series to the brink.
It’s just one game, but a disappointing game nonetheless…if Toews answers this call, we’ll be fine.
Disappointing game (although we still could have won it.) Minny did what every other team in the league knows, get physical with the Hawks and they are vulnerable- particularly when the refs let cheap shots go (Backes and Thorton ring a bell with anyone?) First, beat on Toews all game. Why? because it neutralizes him and noone on the Hawks does anything about it. Next, Oduya and Keith will turn it over when they start looking over their shoulder. What was up with Seabrook? Talk about him getting cleaned up and off his skates multiple times.. Don’t know what’s happened, but he’s not who he was a year ago..
That said, Minny is a joke compared to the physicality of the teams we’ll see in rnds 2 and 3. StL, Vanc, the Ducks and even SJ are MUCH more physical, bigger and tougher than the Wild. Although I am confident we’ll win this series, we better be prepared for much more pain if we expect to keep the train rolling.. Play like today and we will not progress. I can only hope we have the desire and will to physically answer the bell, it’s only going to get tougher from here..
Ok, before more people beat the stupid drum, Minnesota was well aware of how the Hawks have lost their previous games this season. They actually do have coaches that are aware of these things and coach their players the best way to have success. In fact, every team in the league knows they need to get aggressive with the Hawks. Truth is, not every team can do it, and a lot of times when teams try to do it, they get themselves beat.
There was no lack of WANT from the Hawks. They quite simply didn’t execute. I’m sure they wanted to win, they just didn’t execute or adjust their game plan after Minnesota changed up what they wanted to do.
This was the least amount of hits the Wild have had in all 3 games. yet they were more physical? Ok. Seemed to me the Hawks just kept making bad turnovers because players were flying the zone too early.
The Wild were desperate and played like it. They simply outworked the Hawks, and they could very well do it again on Tuesday if the Hawks don’t match their work ethic and focus.
Before we climb all over the first line, let us remember:
*Toews is 61% at the dot
*The 1st line has combined for 9 hits and 3 blks (both above their combined per game averages)
*That line has been the top Corsi line by far (+29, +26, +21; next best is +24, +22, +7)
*That line has been peppering the net with Saad 2nd, Hossa 3rd, and Toews 5th on the team in shots, those will start going in at some point; the key is that they are getting their chances
Thank you, ‘hawks58
Hawks58, they also have nothing to show for it…but it was just one game, and I am sure Toews and Co. will respond…but you can’t dispute the fact that Wall and Negzz spelled out how to beat the Hawks.
Thank you, JS (at 9:00 pm), EbonyRaptor (at 10:19 pm), and ‘hawks58 (at 10:29 pm) — “I think you really captured the spirit of the thing…”.
(Sr. Brad, “Half-empty” or “Half-full”…I’m just sayin’…)
GO HAWKS!!
As opined after game 1. The Wild are playing there game to a tee. It is the Hawks, as the more highly skilled team, to figure how to get them off their game. Q knows, the answer is not that hard…….get a 2 goal lead and keep pushing. The Wild will abandon their tight checking game. As with all physical opponents, the Hawks have to play with a lead.
We all knew this game was coming. At home MN can feed off their crowd noise from hitting and get their adrenaline pumping. However, I’m not sure if they can repeat the intensity of the second period 9 more times to win 3 out of 4 against the Hawks. They took their foot off the gas in the third, especially late in the game. If I’m Yeo I’m furious that MN doesn’t finish that game. Outcome favors the Wild, but they’re lucky Oduya’s shot wasn’t deflected in on the other end in OT.
Also, pounding the hell out of the d-men isn’t just a recipe to beat the Hawks. That’s a recipe to beat any team. No D-man likes getting hit like that. Only elite D like Keith (and Suter) can consistently avoid hits like that when all Cluttercunt and Setti-fuck-face are trying to do is put you into the third row. However, the Hawks D held up through the game. As long as we hold teams to 2 goals or less in regulation we’ve got the fire power to strike back quickly.
This one didn’t break our way in the end. Be pissed about it through Sunday and then move on. They’ve got another big road game Tuesday.
Hawks58-
Its great that the 1st liners have “All” those SOG… IMO- the shots are of a low quality- and that line has been neutralized.
2nd line without a “true” center (Zus is trying to fill in)- but is not on the same level as 88-10 has been average.
This series is starting to look a lot like Yotes last year hounding the Hawks- In a lot of ways Wild are doing as good or better job… when the Wild Latch on to a Hawk instead of fixing their eyes and bodies on the Puck- they have really frustrated/neutralized the Hawks. If you really LOOK at the goals scored by Hawks- 3 of the goals were scored when Wild weak side were mesmerized by the Puck (if they play the player’s without the puck (like Yotes)- this is going to be dogfight and be just like Yotes series). IMO- our quality of scoring chances was actually better against Yotes-( Smith was better).
Gotta hop on the Wall/ Sr. B train- stats lie. The first line hasn’t been close to putting a hard shot on net or standing their ground. They are losing battles. This in the hawks vs. Wild active stick world championship. One game all year did the Hawks dish it back, against St. Louis in St. Louis, and they eventually dominated the game. Push back is all they need to neutralize the pounding and establish their game.
The Hawks turtle when mugged. Their power play sucks. The two are connected and our skating game suffers and the boys don’t finish.
‘Hawks take the next two games. Minny threw the entirety of their game at them cus they are a desperate team. First home playoff game in a while and needed to show the fans a little something. However, the boys provided a lot of sustained pressure and most times when the puck left the zone it was by our own hand. Minny struggled just to get a one goal lead and then scrambled to keep it. They wilted under the pressure and not once was i nervous about us tying up the game. OT is often a crapshoot and this time Minny got a lucky one thru. Overall a good game from the boys and they did well against the best Minny can bring. No worries… again… good guys in 5.
Through the first 2 games, only one series had more hits than Hawks/Wild and that was LA/St Louis. You guys are really trying to make something out of nothing.
Why is it when they win they are the greatest team in the NHL and when they lose they have so many flaws and they’ll never be able to make it to the Finals? The Wild played the best game they possibly could yesterday afternoon and barely won.
Wall- how were all the Wild goals scored yesterday? On lost checks. This is typically how you score goals in hockey. If players are checked they can’t get open to score goals.
Again, its one game, and the Hawks are simply playing too well to lose this series or likely another game…but they must learn to respond in physical games…becoming soft by not hitting only invites more hitting.
Good things to take from this game Dickie? Yes…CC is on top of his game right now, and our top line has yet to play “well” and they can and will! I am excited to see how the Hawks respond in game 4.
Nice counter punch by the WILD, let’s see how the Hawks respond I’m guessing Toews. Finally gets on the score sheet next game
IH…that’s the best comment yet…all the Hawks need is to push back…and that is essentially what Q said, and why he was disappointed…do it DURING THE GAME and not next game…so come Tuesday, we will see Toews and Co. push back! Great comments as always.
@JS: “This was the least amount of hits the Wild have had in all 3 games. yet they were more physical?”
Um, Box score: Hits: Minny 34, Hawks 13. (Game-1: Hawks 40, Wild 36, Game-2: Hawks 35, Wild 43.) What about Minny playing a “more physical” game is not clear about Sunday’s game? Perhaps I should have said the Hawks were FAR LESS physical than they have been and were dominated by the Wild in that respect? And this fact in context of getting beat in almost EVERY other aspect of yesterday’s game. Putting hits aside, in each of the 1st 2 games, the Hawks had more SOG, more takeaways and were even or up at the dot. Yesterday they were outplayed in every way. SOG: 37-27, Takeaways: 9-2, Faceoffs: 40-32. Bottom line, hitting is a “will” issue that allows you to exert control on the other team. If you can’t answer (or won’t), you will not go far in the playoffs.
As I said, it’s clear to me the Hawks are the better team and will prevail in this series. I’m chalking this one up to feeling too good about the 5-2 game, Minny getting fired up for 1st playoff game at home and the law of averages. Suter played another 30+ mins and next game is Tues, he’s bound to be getting tired as the game goes on. VERY important the Hawks come to play on Tuesday out of the gate and bring the wood (like they did in game-1), to complement our speed.
So after watching the last 2 games on DVR catch up… and let me tell you it was hell trying to avoid scores over the weekend until i could watch them last night… I started thinking how pissed I was that the top line hadn’t been better… and that the PP needs to come around… but then I stopped. We ran them out of the UC in game 2… we played our game, and they punched back in game 3… they played their game. Right now I just want to give that one to Minnesota. They caught some bounces to set up the goals, and to their credit they ramped up the physicality and didn’t let the Hawks gain momentum in their building. They did it right in game 3, I can admit that. But that doesn’t mean much in my head. We are still the better team and Kane is lights out right now. Elite player are elite for a reason. Hoss and Toews will get theirs at some point and maybe it was foolish to think that Parise wouldn’t get his too.
As much as I honestly thought we would sweep, we can repond in game 4 and put it away on home ice.
I look at game 3 in these terms. The Wild probably played as good a game as they can, and they needed a lucky goal in OT to beat us. Good on them. I thought we played well in the first 8 minutes and finished well in the 3rd. Refs let the Wild off the hook in the first. Not that our power play has looked dangerous, but pk’s wear teams out.
Middle sections were stagnant. Handzus for sure had a really bad game, and looked slower than slow. So did Seabs. What’s going on with him? He seems to be getting slower as the season has moved on. First line should breakout tomorrow. Just keep rolling 4 lines and the chances will be there. Doesn’t look like injuries are an issue with the Hawks which is a positive after the first 3 games.
Some bad clearing passes from our own end hurt yest. I don’t think that will happen again to the same degree. Our forwards looked like they were trying to cheat into neutral zone too soon. Q will get this fixed.
Corey remains sort of enigmatic. Clearly he kept us in the game, yet lets a lousy angle shot in during the OT. Takes us back to the PHX series last year. Corey though to his credit was really sharp otherwise and has been very good overall in the first three games. I am confident Corey will take us deep in the playoffs.
The power play just needs to generate more shots to net. This is how playoff goals get generated, from goofy bounces, screens, deflections. The pretty goals will come. I just wish they would keep it simple.
I didn’t think the Wild were that much more physical yesterday, but the pressure on our dmen got them 3 goals. It looked to me like the Wild looked gassed in the last 8 minutes of the game. They can’t run around trying to drill our guys and expect to win in a 7 game series. This is going to take its toll on them as the series moves forward. We can match the Wild in all departments if we play hard and concentrate. I think we win tomorrow and finish these guys off in game 5.
I’m leaving the country for 2 weeks so Slingbox will hopefully be working.
Lets Go Hawks!
JS- I agree about ” lost check lead to goals”… checking/hounding is about will and effort- as much as speed…
but like Negzz has stated… it is about imposing your “Will” – this Hawks team has had a great amount of Sex (I mean success)lol – imposing its will with speed- not so much with hitting (and Frankly- this is why they aren’t as good/diverse as 2010)… but this is Playoff hockey… where like in Basketball (the fastbreaks are minimized by WILL and effort)… and you need to step it up in other areas besides SPEED!!!
So far the 1st 2 lines have been out willed!!! And it is going to turn into “an anyone can win series- like Yotes” if the first 2 lines don’t start winning some battles and Out WILLING the Wild!!!
This is why I love the Playoffs. We could be down a game very easily at 2-1. If Cap’t Johnny makes good on his late rush in regulation yesterday we would be up 3 games to zero. He missed by an inch by doing so. All I know for sure is, if we had a roster full of 19s and they all matched JTs effort everyday, we would have little to fret over. Go Hawks!
All 3 Minny goals started below the goal line, similar to most of the Yotes’ goals last year. Here’s hoping Hawks’ braintrust remembers what didn’t work in that series when the opponent turned on the forecheck. Look for Hawks to win more of the pucks behind their own net while the forwards stay on their checks.
I agree with the earlier comment regarding Smith/Morin for Bollig (I was looking for it as soon as Rockford’s season ended, if not before). Either of those guys hit enough and are huge upgrades over 52 in terms of both skating and ability to play with the puck. Morin has higher ceiling, Smith has shown ability to play his game in the playoffs.
I don’t think you can compare this series to last year against PHO. In my opinion PHO played outside the rules with the Torres cheap shot that put Hossa out of the series while Torres stayed in the game. In fact, PHO went on the powerplay after that 25 game suspension illegal hit. It was and remains absolutely ridiculous and PHO benefitted from that big time. I don’t see MINN pulling that kind of stunt. Clutterbuck hits hard but I don’t think he’s dirty.
People seriously care way too damn much about hits. How many times do we have to call it a useless stat before everyone agrees that it’s a useless stat? And Neggz, one game does not make a trend. Hawks were out hit nearly every game this season, yet still outshot the opposition in almost every game.
Cry physicallity all you want, the truth is the Hawks were not making crisp break out passes which they typically have no issues with. They didn’t adjust to Minnesota’s shift in strategy. When they are playing a trap and only using one forechecker, it’s fine for players to fly the zone to look for a stretch pass. That’s one of the ways you beat the trap. When Minnesota starts sending in two forecheckers, some of the forwards have to stay home and move the puck up the ice slower. Otherwise you get what you had yesterday and a few other times this season. I guarantee if Minnesota comes in with the same game plan tomorrow night, the Hawks will adjust their breakouts or just start chipping the puck out high off the glass and trying to force a turnover in the neutral zone.
And Toews not scoring is a huge problem. Defend him and call him great all you want, but he’s been a no-show in the playoffs since 2010. If he’s supposed to be the best player on the team, he needs to show up on the scoreboard.
Some of the comments re: Toews started to make me laugh… but now they’re just stupid. “he’s been a no-show in the playoffs since 2010” is both idiotic and ridiculous when you remember he had 4 points in 6 games while playing through a concussion at 70% last year. He’s also winning 61% of his faceoffs in the postseason while skating 22:12 per night, the 8th highest ATOI in the postseason. The Wild have targeted Toews/the top line in this series and won’t let 19 beat them. The result: Kane has 5 assists in 3 games. Putting ONE LOSS on the back of the captain is picking on the wrong person folks.
Thanks Tab, some folks should take note.
What magic metric do you use to know he was at 70% health?
And I’m pretty sure every team is going to throw their best defensive players at the top line. For some reason, this doesn’t stop other scorers from scoring. 3 goals in his last 16 playoff games. I don’t remember him scoring in the finals of 2010 either… so 3 goals in his last 20 playoff games.
I’m not pinning the loss on Toews, but if we want to call him one of the best players in the league, he needs to start scoring if the Hawks are going to get a ring.
Boys, before anybody jumps off a cliff……..let’s remember a couple of things: 1. The Hawks won their (2) games at home. The Wild did what they were supposed to do……they beat the HAwks on their home ice. It would NOT surprise me if the Wild win, tomorrow. I expect the Hawks to make the necessary adjustments and beat the Wild, but you never know. #2: The Hawks have home ice throughout the playoffs, so they have the advantage. So far, they are 2-0 at home in this post season. If my math is correct, 14 more home wins and the Cup is ours.
Let’s not panic, boys. Trust our coaches, trust our team and most of all, trust our captain.
@JS – what metric do I use to know he was at 70% health? Pick up a copy of the latest issue of The Fourth Period Magazine to read the cover story I wrote about him. From my one-on-one interview there might be a quote you can use as a “metric”
And Derrick Rose is at 90% and waiting until he’s 110%, because these percentages exist.
Additionally, if Kane’s 5 assists (all primary assists, by the way) are because he’s facing weaker compeition, why are the majority of his shifts against Brodin and Suter? No matter who is on the ice, he is creating time and space and setting up his teammates beautifully. Although, I suppose we can give Toews an assist for distracting Clutterbuck long enough for Keith to get that open.
Do you think the Hawks can make it to the finals with the top line not scoring goals or do you think they have a better chance if they do? I’m not trying to say the Hawks lost yesterday because of Toews, but it would be really damn nice if one of the best players in the league could start contributing more on the score sheet. Yes he is winning faceoffs, yes he is playing wonderful defensive hockey, but I want points. 3 goals in 23 games (I was wrong previously) is not a good thing.
LOL at the DRose comparison… Toews could barely stay awake but led the team’s forwards in ice time per game, and you’re comparing him to the highest paid cheerleader in the NBA. Stop.
When Toews stops doing everything but score, I’ll accept that there’s something to be discussed.
Definitely wasn’t comparing him to Rose. Percentage of health is silly and not quantifiable. I’m glad Toews has giant balls, but if he was still suffering from concussion symptoms while he was playing, he’s an idiot.
I’m looking forward to the Toews hatty tomorrow so I can stop worrying about his point production.
I wanted to post the highlight of Oduya’s goal half way up the comment section of this thread but was late to the party.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuB0zOMpd88
There is a certain captain of a certain team imposing his will in a one-on-one battle.
Tab- as much as I hate to – I have to side w/ JS on the 70% comment… even if is directly out of the Horse’s mouth… we can just say he wasn’t 100% and leave it at that.
More importantly- I don’t fault Hoss- 19- 20 for not playing well… perhaps just like Yotes- they are just playing harder/smarter than us… Wild aren’t scoring… they just are playing boring/playoff/checking hockey (not the fun stuff you see in Ottawa or Pens series) … and in the end- that style (Like Preds 2010, and Jackets 2012) is going to lead to tight games and … a bad or lucky bounce here or there could mean the series! The 2nd game “blowout”… Hawks/Frolik got a couple of gift/bounces!
Speaking of Sens- they are one of the few teams who will have some money to spend next year (if they want to) and could be a very strong team!!!
Speaking for myself, I do not lay the loss of this game nor any past series losses on Toews. His hustle and determination is inspiring to both fans and teammates, even when injured/concussed. That said, he can be neutralized when you beat on him. Opponents know this and have started targeting him after seeing what happens when they do. Other teams NEVER put up with that with their stars. What happens when you target other teams league leaders (like Sid?) Pandemonium and retribution. Message sent- you will pay no matter what. Not the case with the Hawks, we’ll just plan to outskate you. Thornton mugs Toews last year (maybe causes the concussion), and no/little response. Toews fights him this year (gets his but kicked), and still nothing. Backes hacks and crosschecks him all day and after the whistle, and what happens? Bickel talks a bit but NOTHING happens. (Same can be said for when Torres dropped Hoss last year.) I don’t blame #19, I take issue with his teamates and Q for essentially letting it go. Think the 2010 roster of Ladd, Brower, Burish, Eager, Buff and even Versteeg would let that happen? No way. Until you are willing to make the other team pay you will keep getting targeted and hacked. And this is just Minny, wait until you get to the teams that can really bring the wood.
Negzz, I agree with what you said about the Hawks allowing our top players to get beaten on. Some targeted retribution is required, otherwise this will be the formula all teams will embrace IF/WHEN we advance in these playoffs. If you have to take a penalty for dealing out some payback, let our PK boys get after it. It will be worth the price paid being short handed.
The message needs to be sent tomorrow and through the rest of the playoffs. The alternative is to see one of our core guys hurt because of other teams taking liberties. Hockey is a rough game. Intimidation is part of the program, especially in the playoffs. Let’s get it on.
Please not this again. Taking stupid retribution penalties is not the way to win, it also isn’t going to stop teams from abusing the stars. You know what it will do? Make them abuse the stars more knowing someone is going to do something stupid to give them a power play.
After Torres tried to kill Hossa last year, Bollig chased him down and tried to punch him in the face. Torres turtled, Bollig went to the penalty box. That really showed him! I bet Torres will never illegally hit anyone ever again because Bollig chased him down after the hit.
STOP.
The Hawks stars don’t take any more abuse than any other team in the NHL. Take a night to watch some other games and you’ll see this is what lesser teams do to try to beat the more talented teams.
How many fighting majors did the Hawks have in 2010 playoffs?
0.
Put Carcillo on the Toews line for game 4 and Clutterbuck will get his ass kicked. Carcillo is an expert at getting under people’s skin.
@Milton: No.
Carcillo shouldn’t be on the ice for warm-ups, much less shifting w/ 19.
Take that idea, write it down on a piece of paper, crumple the paper up, and throw it in the toilet. Then flush. Twice.
Tab your not commenting on whether Bolig should be out there or not. Do they need Bolig or are they better off with somebody that can skate in that spot like Morin or Smith. To me thats a crucial decision that Q needs to make.
@JS: Funny you reduce physical payback to simply “taking stupid retribution penalties”. Is that all you see as an option when your star is getting beat on all game? And your Bollig after Torres example is BS. Btw- If case you forgot, the Hawks lost the PHO series after seeing Hossa get KO’d and then continuing to get physically out muscled game after game by a team that had nowhere near the skill of the Hawks. (Notwithstanding Crow’s TERRIBLE performance in crucial moments throughout the series.) Like it or not, physically inflicting harm on the opponent, particularly when they are picking on your stars is the way game has been played like… forever. It’s the self-policing dynamic within the game. How to do so without stupidity? One example, if Clutter&uck is beating on Toews all game, then Parise should be shadowed and harrassed and beaten silly every shift. Tis better to give than receive. You simply can’t allow the other team to impose their will on your team.
@McKay: Totally different scenarios. In 2010 the HAWKS were the team handing out the punishment and combining it with skill. The “beat on Toews” strategy had not yet been discovered, and our opponents spent more time dealing with OUR agressiveness than attempting to intimidate us. Further, I’m not an advocate or fan of those bogus staged fights where your tough guy fights their tough guy. What good does that do? The strategy is to physically impose pain on the opponent and make it clear you will not be %$^&^%$-slapped all game.
@Milton: Not sure Carbomb works for me on line-1, but wherever he would play, assigning him role of Parise antagonist is not a bad idea in my view..
How is that example BS? That is exactly what happened after Torres hit Hossa.
Funny story. Hawks are averaging more hits per game so far in these playoffs than in 2010.
And if the Hawks are shadowing Parise and beating him up, how does that stop the other team from beating up Toews? Pretty sure if Toews and Parise are both being harassed, the Wild are still imposing their will on the Hawks. I’d much rather have Clutterbuck shadow Toews and then be late to change shifts and cause a goal against… maybe that’s just me?
Maybe the Hawks lost against Phoenix last year because Mike Smith had the second best save percentage in a series ever?
I think you are trapped in a period of time before the instigator existed. And guess what, there was still plenty of harassing and cheap shots back then.
Actually, after checking. The 2011 Hawks and 2012 Hawks also out hit the 2010 Hawks. That 2010 team was SO PHYSICAL!
It is one thing to take bad penalties with cheap shot plays. It is another thing to make the top players on other teams keep there heads and looking over their shoulders. It can’t be take the abuse all the time, and in the case of the Hawks that has been our history with this group. All I’m saying is play tough and give back as well as what you take. You can do much of this within the rules. In the odd case where a penalty is given up for payback so be it. Sometimes it is warranted.
The deal last year with Hossa was poorly handled by the Hawks players. Regardless, the series changed when Hoss went down the way he did. Of all the hundreds of NHL games I have attended, that was the most gut wrenching moments I can ever recall. The life went out of the crowd and the Hawks. Without a players like Hossa the team dynamics change for the worse. Other teams have to expect retribution. In the Hossa case none was forthcoming. The Bollig attempt was insufficient. The refs of course got it wrong anyway. While it is water under the bridge, Ladd in my opinion would not have allowed the Torres torpedo shot on Hoss to stand. It would have been dealt with appropriately. Ladd is the one guy I miss most from the 2010 Champs. He always stepped up when it was time and other teams respected that.
The bottom line is play the game hard, because after all it is a hard, rough and sometimes brutal sport. I expect our guys to step it up tonight, and hopefully through the rest of the playoffs. The Hawks can be pretty versatile with the talent we have. We didn’t ring up the record we saw this year because we were soft.
Let’s Go Hawks!
@Phil: Agree with all, well said.
@JS: Respect your opinion, simply disagree. Further, you can’t be serious re your characterization of this team vs. the Cup winners (as well as the past 2 seasons.) If you try to use stats out of context o prove the ’10 team was less physical than than the past 2 years (and this squad), whatever. Anyone following the team even for just the past few years can easily see the difference. As you know, it’s never simply the number of hits on a stat sheet (like SOG), it’s quality, comparative #’s to opposition , etc. The topic is our #1 line and how teams are playing us. If teams are going to shadow and beat on Toews, you have to make a decision if you’re willing to allow him to get neutralized. The good news is the Hawks have good lines 2 & 3, and can try to make you pay that way. Regardless, my view, you can’t let that happen and you have to act accordingly. Hopefully, we see more life and urgency from the Hawks tonight and it’s all good. Regardless, Sharks/Blues/LA/ANA will all do the same until you make them stop. It’s a matter of how.
Sigh… what would Ladd have done to resurrect the corpse of Hossa off the ice? What would any player have done to make Hossa’s concussion magically go away? Responding to thuggery with more thuggery isn’t the Hawks way and I’m damn happy that’s the way Q coaches them. There is nothing the Hawks could have done in that series that would have made Hossa come back. The best thing they could have done was win and they failed at that. And the reason they failed isn’t because Andrew Ladd wasn’t there to take a run at someone.
This is the point I’m trying to make. You are talking about how all of these other teams do this to each other. Guess what? The top players on all of these teams are still scoring goals no matter how much they are being harassed. If the Hawks start shadowing Parise, how does that make Toews score more goals? If the Hawks decide to “neutralize” Parise (which they did a very good job of in the first two games), is Toews suddenly no longer neutralized?
If the Hawks can, I would love to see them play more like they did in games 1&2. But I don’t think it was a lack of effort or want, I think they just didn’t make the proper adjustments in time. Tonight, if the Wild are sending in two forecheckers again, I would be willing to bet the farm that the Hawks keep more forwards in the defensive zone to help get the puck out.
And the point of me giving the hit statistics was me trying to say it’s a stupid statistic and you shouldn’t overreact on the numbers from game to game.
Negzz agreed-
You don’t have to hit everyone-everytime… but the sure threat was always there from multiple players in 2010… moreover, they could withstand the hits to make the plays- therefore 2010 was much better equipped to play multiple styles of Hockey.
I don’t see any opposing D-man worried about getting hit by 67-16-65…etc.- now these guys are all good forecheckers- but don’t scare anyone physically/or size wise.
compare that to Buff, Ladd, Eager, Brouwer, Burish.
Lastly, A buddy of mine met Eddie O at drinking function… O voiced that the most missed Hawk was Ladd- could do everything well!!!
in 2010 the hits to pronger from buff changed the series. the hawks went right after philly’s bully and addressed it head on. it was an important statement to make. the number of hits was not something that sticks in my memory. but seeing pronger get punished does.
in this series i believe clutterbuck or suter need to be run the same way. it needs to be addressed for the emotional value effect it will have on both squads. if there wasn’t any emotional advantage to be gained than why do so many people think there is? is everyone wrong?
you face down a bully because they are essentially cowards. our dads taught us this in grade school.
on the ideas of hitting parise: the hawks are the better team when all things are equal. so make the playing field equal. if toews has to deal with the ticky tack stuff, then parise should too. just make it as rough for them as it is for the hawks.
the 2010 team didn’t register a staggering amount of hits because they didn’t look to play that way, but if the other team did they addressed it.
Does the type of forecheck matter if you are still forcing turnovers? A defenseman doesn’t have to be afraid of getting hit to make a stupid play and I think the Hawks have proved that plenty of times this year. Speed and closing distance creates just as many turnovers as physical play.
People LOVE to mention the Byfuglien hit on Pronger. That was in game 5 when the Hawks were already pounding them. But yeah, changed the series. Without that hit Michael Leighton would have learned how to stop a puck! Maybe Byfuglien hit Pronger so hard that Brian Boucher decided he didn’t want to get in the way of any pucks for the rest of the game!
And seriously, the Hawks d-men have no issues with taking the hit to make the play. The problem is, there isn’t anyone there to make a play to because they are flying the zone.
(this website has given me a wonderful distraction at work today, I appreciate it!)
“(this website has given me a wonderful distraction at work today, I appreciate it!)”
I was thinking the same thing!
Let’s Go Hawks!
First, let me say Ladd was one of my favorite Hawks, so I may be a bit biased, but I never saw him cheapshot/run at another player (ala Torres, Backes, etc.) Tough and aggressive is not a “bad” characteristic. In fact, one of my favorite morments from that season was when Vanc’s Kelser publically stated that Ladd was a “coward” after Ladd had layed out a Canuck (it wasn’t yet the playoffs.) When questioned by the press before their next game, Ladd just smiled and said nothing. Once on the ice, 1st shift, Ladd challenges and beats the crud out of Kesler, pointing to his eye as he makes his way off the ice. Next shift, challenged him again and Kesler refused to fight (naturally.) THAT is how you make a statement about what you are made of, no cheapshots/runs required.
As for intensity of hits on opposing D-men, let’s get real, of course who is running you is directly related to the frequency of turnovers and bad exit passes. For example, while Shaw is a scrapper/annoyer, he’s not exactly a freight train you fear when retrieving the puck deep in your zone. Pesky? Yes. Feared? NO. When Eager or Burrish were bearing down on you, you knew it was coming. It forced errors. Hawks need to take a page out of that book and dish more of it out from those big enough on the roster to get someone’s attn (Bickell anyone?).. Unfortunately, we seldom hit like that. BIG difference. Looking for some energy and physicality TONIGHT boys!
Finally, agree that this was a great distration today. Thank you!
Go Hawks..
The NHL network interviewed Corey Perry of the Ducks and asked him about the physical play of Detroit. His response: “Detroit doesn’t put you through the boards, they get a piece of you and take you off the puck”. That sounds alot like the Hawks.
I would hope that most people who comment on this site have skated competitively sometime in their lives. Playing physical doesn’t mean running everyone through the boards. It means taking the body and taking the player OFF the puck. Hitting an opposing player just to hit him doesn’t do a thing unless you get the puck from him or force him to give up the puck.
Watch the Vancouver Canucks. They are the perfect example of a team that hits opposing players with no purpose at all. They hit just to try and intimidate the opposition. The Sharks are taking full advantage of this and skating all over the Canuckleheads. They’ll go down in four games and still not learn their lesson.
I’m all for physical play. I love a good, hard check, but only if it serves a purpose like getting a loose puck or forcing a turnover. Hammers hit on Parise was a great, perfectly timed, hit. We need more of that type of hit in this series.
There’s a saying in hockey that goes, “take a hit to make a play”. To me, that epitomizes what the Hawks do all the time. They suck the opposition into making a hit on the boards and at the same time they move the puck to a skating forward and suddenly they have an “odd man” situation and a scoring opportunity. Any player worth his salt will sacrifice his body to get a scoring opportunity.
Most teams will out hit the HAwks, but very few will have the scoring opportunities that the Hawks get in a game because of their sacrifices on the boards. Being out hit doesn’t mean a thing in this league, anymore.
Ahhh, perfect timing on that comment Tom.
What I was going to say is who do you think is more feared on the forcheck, Ben Eager, or Jonathan Toews? Toews isn’t going to hit you, he MIGHT make body contact, but if you aren’t paying attention you are going to be wondering where the puck went while he’s skating towards the goalie. Pretty sure defensemen know you can pull Eager out of position to start a rush going back the other way (which is one of the reasons he’s out of the league). Take a hit to make a play!
This has been a fun argument because there really isn’t a right or wrong to it. The Hawks have been the best team in hockey this year and I don’t see them losing a best of 7. They might not punish teams physically, but the amount of work those other teams have to do to try to keep up with the Hawks is probably punishment enough.
One thing I wish for this city is to have one of the hockey beat guys actually try to watch the game. Coaches always immediately go to the “out worked/hustled/flat/effort” crap… and while sometimes this might be the reasoning behind a bad outting, most of the time it has to do with something else. How many times can I read Lazerus blame bad play on the Hawks “coming out flat”? I’d love a guy that actually reads into the strategy of the game. Gives me more information on the numbers. Hits, blocks, shots… meh. Why are the Hawks having issues clearing the zone? Why can’t they get the puck into the “house” while 5on5? What are the teams doing defensively that is giving them fits? I would love for one of the many beats to tackle this.
@ Dickie Dunn from 2:07 AM on the 6th
The question “Is the glass half empty or half full?” is a leading question designed to get an individual to respond in such a way that the asker is then able to show optimism or pessimism. In reality there are 2 more answers that give just as much info about the person you are dealing with.
Is the glass half empty or half full? Suitable Answers:
Half Full – Optimist
Half Empty – Pessimist
The glass is twice as big as it needs to be or is filled with half its capacity – Engineer, Architect, Problem solver, etc
In reality the perceived half filled glass is always 100% full of some combination of solid, liquid and gas – Realist
JS players in the NHL don’t fear contact. The answer to your question who would you fear on the forecheck Eager or Toews? Toews is the answer. chances are he steals the puck and makes a play.
Toews, Kane, Hossa Malkin, Crosby are better and more effective with their sticks than and “LEGAL” hit.
and* any ……..than any “Legal” hit
Ryan – great response. Truthfully, I wasn’t “leading” with my question. I think that throughout this season, with probably UNrealistic expectations reinforced/increased with every win during “the streak”, many of us here OVERreacted to each loss starting with that game in Colorado, and maybe even to a few wins that seemed “lucky” or not quite convincing enough. I merely posed the question…from the position of “HOW bad can it be?”, at this point. “…info about the person you are dealing with” – we’re all Hawk fans – I’m not getting too deep into judgement. (Trivia: I am not an “Engineer, Architect” and I solve problems only when I must. I *try* to be a “Realist”, but you must appreciate how difficult that can be at times…)
(Does the moderator delete replies? Or, do I have a technical problem at my end?)
ONE more – GO HAWKS!!