Blackhawks Payroll Ranks Among Least Efficient in NHL

On Thursday, Dom Luszczyszyn at The Athletic published his rankings of the most efficient payrolls in the NHL.

The Colorado Avalanche rank first this year. Looking around the rest of the Central Division, here’s how the teams rank heading into the 2021 season:

Colorado – 1
Minnesota – 14
Dallas – 18
St. Louis – 20
Arizona – 24
Winnipeg – 25
Nashville – 30

The Chicago Blackhawks ranked 26th on the list, moving up one spot from last year’s list. As you can see from the rankings above, more than half of the Central Division rank in the bottom-third of the league. So at least we can find consolation in knowing most of the division is “wasting” money.

Chicago’s subpar ranking comes with a major caveat. According to Dom, the Blackhawks would have ranked in the top half of the league if not for Seth Jones’ contract; he indicates that contract alone cost the Hawks 12 spots in the rankings.

Here’s what Dom wrote about the Hawks:

Things were on the way up for Chicago. The team got out of the last two years of the Duncan Keith deal unscathed (collecting actual assets!) and the team carried a lot of long term flexibility. The longest deal on the books had three years remaining, but most were just one or two years – mostly at market price. There were some liabilities like the remainder of Jonathan Toews’s deal and the final year of Calvin de Haan’s, but mostly the team was looking good.

Then they signed Seth Jones for eight more years, whose contract singlehandedly dropped the team 12 spots in these rankings. Without the Jones extension, Chicago’s cap sheet looks pretty pristine relatively speaking, with the recent Brandon Hagel extension looking solid too.

I understand the Jones discourse is nauseating for many. He’s better than his numbers say, he’s worse than his eye test suggests. Let’s live in that middle ground and simply appreciate that Chicago gave him the the third highest salary for a defenseman, for eight years, that starts in 2022-23, the year after his worst season, before he’s played a single game for the team. The Blackhawks received no discount for that risk because best case scenario, he actually plays like a $9.5 million defenseman and gets paid as such a year from now. That’s a possibility! But it’s a gamble because there’s also the downside risk that what Jones showed last year wasn’t a blip or a fluke, but a sign of things to come. There’s a chance he just doesn’t fit into Chicago’s scheme.

It’s a huge bet to make with very little upside because there’s also the fact that half those years will come in Jones’s 30s. He may be elite next year to be worth the contract, but can he maintain that as he ages? It’s very unlikely and that leaves a huge sore spot on the team’s books. No other contract carries less surplus value.

81 thoughts on “Blackhawks Payroll Ranks Among Least Efficient in NHL

  • August 12, 2021 at 10:31 am
    Permalink

    who would have guessed? baby bowman’s comfort zone. finally escaped the travesty of the de haan, shaw, and maatta moves, but found a way to jump back in. of course hoping for the best, but the hawks are screwed again if s. jones deal plays out as a losing move.

    nothing against jones, but imo it is a move you make when you need one more guy to make your team cup competitive. not a financially sound move at one more attempt to win with toews and kane. especially when toews is a question mark.

    smells like desperation. not a well planned rebuild.

  • August 12, 2021 at 10:47 am
    Permalink

    As Dom notes in the article the Jones contract alone is responsible for the Hawks low ranking and that is based mostly on his stats from last year vs his current extension

    Obviously these type of models don’t account for human intangibles like playing in CBJ and the toll that might take on a players performance

    We’ll see how it plays out – even Dom admits that Jones has a chance to be an elite D man for at least most of his contract if not all of it – the Hawks are clearly betting that he will be – I think it’s a calculated risk worth taking others will disagree

    Time will tell – if Jones continues to play like last year then clearly it was a bad contract

  • August 12, 2021 at 11:50 am
    Permalink

    What Wrap said. Plus the comment regarding risk with very little upside is ignoring the obvious rationale for making the move – acquiring a legit #1 d-man which is arguably the hardest position to acquire. Of course it all hinges on Seth actualizing the potential he’s getting paid for – if he does it is a good move and the center piece of the rebuild d-corps, if he doesn’t live up to being a legit #1 d-man – then it will end up being a terrible “rebuild crushing” move.

  • August 12, 2021 at 12:22 pm
    Permalink

    Oh great! Let’s sign low level contracts so we can win the most efficient team award!

  • August 12, 2021 at 12:39 pm
    Permalink

    This is just like Chicago weather: It was really enjoyable for a while. Then it got bad for a while. It’s starting to look like it might get nice again – not great, but nice. But, there is a chance it won’t. Nothing any of us can do about it.

  • August 12, 2021 at 1:10 pm
    Permalink

    *I posted the below on an earlier thread that apparently had ended so I’m re-posting here for those interested*

    All this talk recently about various team’s prospect pools got me curious about the people who put these lists together and how accurate they may or may not be

    I realize evaluating young talent is not an exact science – scouts/GMs and writers often get it wrong (eg. Datysuk, DCat, Point and many more) so this is not to pick on Corey Pronman but I used him as my test case

    I took Pronman’s ranking of prospects before the loaded 2015 draft (the McDavid, Eichel draft) and compared it to a redrafting of the 2015 class (by The Score) based on how those players have done in their NHL careers

    I’ll list both Pronman’s picks and the redraft starting at pick #9 – the first 8 were sort of obvious although it should be noted that Thomas Chabot came in #6 in the redraft and Pronman had him at #45 – he also had Sebastien Aho at #28 and Aho was #4 in the redraft but at least with Aho Pronman had him as a first round talent

    Here’s the respective lists starting at #9 – what I am mostly interested in is whether the players Pronman ranks as first round talent actually develop into first round talent

    Pronman ——————Redraft

    9 Evgengy Svechnikov —–Mikko Rantenen
    10 Lawson Crouse ——–Kyle Connor
    11 Pavel Zacha ———–Travis Konency
    12 Rantenen————— Brock Boeser
    13 Connor —————-Noah Hanifin
    14 Ivan Provorov ———–Anthony Cirelli
    15 Oliver Kylington———- Timo Meier
    16 Jeremy Bracco————-Dylan Strome
    17 Daniel Sprong———— Brandon Carlo
    18 Nick Merkley———— Anthony Beauvillier
    19 Jeremy Roy—————Jake DeBrusk
    20 Eric Cernak———— Mackenzie Blackwood
    21 Beauvillier—————- Vince Dunn
    22 Colin White————– Ilya Samsonov
    23 Mitchell Stephens———- Conor Garland
    24 J. Harkins————— Andrew Mangiapane
    25 M. Vande Sompell——— Rasmus Andersson
    26 Meier——————– Travis Dermott
    27 R Andersson————- Denis Gurianov
    28 S. Aho——————- Roope Hintz
    29 J DeBrusk—————- Colin White
    30 David Kase————— Eriksson Ek

    A couple of things jump out – first of all who are some these guys that Pronman has going in the first round? a number of them I’ve never heard of

    Second – if you compare Pronman’s 22 picks for the first round after #8 he was wrong on 13 of them (over half) – he had 13 players ranked in the first round that in the redraft weren’t amongst the best 30 players – in other words wouldn’t have gone in a redraft of the first round at all

    Third – there were 12 players that were in the first round of the redraft that Pronman didn’t have have ranked first round talent – all 12 are good players

    They are Boeser, Cirelli, Carlo, Blackwood, Dunn, Samsonov, Garland, Mangiapane, Dermott, Gurianov, Hintz, Eriksson Ek

    I’m not saying Pronman is bad at his job (not at least without comparing him to other prognosticators over a bigger sample) but rather how difficult it is to project with confidence how a prospect will develop

    Naturally it’s better to have a highly ranked prospect pool because that just gives a team more opportunities to hit on players but on the flip side it would be wise not to invest too much into a writer’s projections of prospects especially the younger they are

    Also this exercise had the side effect of making me feel better about the Hawks first rounder this year at #32 Nolan Allan – just because Pronman (or some other writer) thought it was a reach doesn’t mean it was – Pronman at that range of the draft seems to be wrong more than he’s right

  • August 12, 2021 at 1:12 pm
    Permalink

    Had to believe Stan majored on finance in last three years Stans spent 40 million dollars in all fairness if we don’t make the playoffs time to move on from Stan your thoughts on this

  • August 12, 2021 at 1:39 pm
    Permalink

    I looked out the window and it seems nice out. Hope it stays that way.

  • August 12, 2021 at 3:24 pm
    Permalink

    Kind of depends where you’re at – both literally and figuratively. My location is about 50 miles SW of Chicago or as we like to do here in the midwest – about an hour and a half SW of the city. It’s been back and forth between mid-70’s and rain and high-80’s and severe heat index humidity. It’s OK though because we needed the rain and as an old retired geezer I don’t have to leave my air conditioned home too much.

    As for how the weather is, figuratively speaking, I’d have to say things are pretty sunny right now. You know – a sunny disposition goes a long way in this season of eternal optimism. :-)

  • August 12, 2021 at 3:42 pm
    Permalink

    When you can’t blame anyone for bad weather or the give credit for good weather, you can always go after the forecasters.

  • August 12, 2021 at 3:51 pm
    Permalink

    Who cares about salary efficiency….if a team wins a cup, all this garbage is forgotten, it’s only when a team sucks ass like the Hawks and you have a bafoon as GM….then it’s something to write about.

  • August 12, 2021 at 4:38 pm
    Permalink

    Forecasters do their best and sometimes they get it right and sometimes they get it wrong

  • August 12, 2021 at 6:20 pm
    Permalink

    And while all the talk around here is mainly centered on how StanBo turned the shortest rebuild in the history of sports into now a “retooling” and how the team is looking for next year, StanBo deflects the fan base from talking about Susan Loggans petitioning the U.S. Center for Safesport(organization created by the U.S. Olympic Committee) to investigate StanBo for allegedly covering up the sexual abuse of 2 former Blackhawk players. This isn’t going away. Its only going to get worse. Bettman will be forced eventually to get involved in this.

  • August 12, 2021 at 7:54 pm
    Permalink

    It is really easy to lambaste Bowman and he often deserves it. The Jones deal is high risk. It has the potential to contribute to the team turning around or it has the potential to cripple the Hawks for 8 long years.

    As was mentioned above, playing in Columbus can drag players down. Who has been happy there in the Tortorella years? A case can be made that you don’t risk $75 million bones on the fact that Tortorella was the problem with Jones, but the possibility of that is something we can’t ignore. As a matter of fact, we’d better be praying that was the problem because a young player declining this early in his career is frightening for the Hawks if there wasn’t some underlying issue.

    Where does Tampa rank on that list of “payroll efficiency”? They are in cap Hell every year.

  • August 12, 2021 at 8:36 pm
    Permalink

    That’s an excellent post Robs.
    I’ve been extremely busy moving halfway across the country so I only get a chance to weigh in once in awhile.

    Here’s what I know and none of this breaking news so to speak. The Hawks number 1 objective gong into the off-season was to get Seth Jones. Bowman is and was fixated on him. The Hawks had no real interest in Dougie Hamilton. So all of this “we could have had him for free” is moot because Stan and company were not interested. I was told in May, no on Hamilton.

    The organization is over the moon happy they acquired Seth Jones. Did they overpay ? Of course they did because Stan played all his cards and went all in on Jones. Amazingly it seems like Hipster Wirtz doesn’t care. So be it. It’s Seth Jones or bust.

    On the draft. I’ve posted this multiple times. The Hawks were not in love with the quality of players outside the top 10. They “liked” guys like Lucius and Wallstedt but did not love anybody in the second tier. Mark Kelley has stated that guys from 20 to 50 were pretty much the same based on a teams individual preference.
    So trading pick number 12 in the Jones deal was not tough for Bowman or Kelley to swallow. Again, they were fixated on Seth Jones.
    So we wound up with Nolan Allan at #32. That’s who they liked and who they had on their board. My reaction : meh. I’ve never seen Allan play. But I certainly trust the Hawks scouts more so than guys like Corey Pronman and Scott Wheeler who dole out draft grades based on their lists.

  • August 12, 2021 at 8:49 pm
    Permalink

    They will miss Dunc ! The eyes on D ! He was the best , 2 & 7 ! It reminded me of 2 and 12 on team Canada a half a century ago ! We will see how well Jones knows that Blue line ! At 73 I played at college ,then Senior A in Toronto region and played Right D and knew the game ! We will see the fundementals I hope that we were accustomed to by Dunc ! Watch for him in the HHOF and that jersey high in the rafters of the U.C.
    Go Hawks Go ! Pops 4

  • August 12, 2021 at 9:35 pm
    Permalink

    I didn’t have a problem with the Jones trade. My issue is his contract and term. The oilers , avalanche , devils must really love Bowman for setting the price for D’s. Finally who would you rather have Hedman or Jones. Hedman is signed for 4 more yrs at 7.8 mil per. Yes I know Hedman signed earlier, but couldn’t Bowman use his contract in signing Jones especially in these cap times

  • August 12, 2021 at 11:02 pm
    Permalink

    If Mark Kelley thought players between 20 to 50 were pretty much the same why would the hawks no trade down a couple of times to add more assets?
    Are the Blackhawks really that much better than Columbus?

  • August 12, 2021 at 11:13 pm
    Permalink

    Hawks are in the upswing by ridding themselves of #2…. Was a “Me” player… not a team player… Now its Showtime….
    Toews better light it up this year too….

  • August 12, 2021 at 11:56 pm
    Permalink

    Revisit this in a 2 or 3 years, if Blackhawks do have a good playoff run or 2 and cap starts increasing along with salaries, we will be reading articles about how great these moves were. Cap and salaries likely increase and should make Jones contract look a little better, how much this deal helps their on ice success remains to be seen. Draft is over it is what it is, could having this years no. 11, Boqvist and next years no. 1 back help no doubt. A no. 1 D was needed and best one available acquired, if he thrives for next number of years and Allen becomes a top shutdown guy that’s huge for the future. Time is the only way to know how bad or good a deal it was.

  • August 13, 2021 at 12:32 pm
    Permalink

    OK here we go again with the Avalanche love and how they do no wrong. Add to that the projections on players that most have not seen in person or more than a few periods. Some players are more than quietly growing tired of both the psychotic Mackinnon,who refuses to accept any pass in practice that does not hit his stick perfectly and who lectures all teammates on their diets and training to the all knowing Landeskog. That is a train that is going to derail. As others have said,I’m not aware of the reward that a team gets for being the Most Efficient Salary Team. It probably isn’t the Stanley Cup.

  • August 13, 2021 at 12:55 pm
    Permalink

    Sometimes it’s difficult to see the forest cuz all the damn trees are in the way. The same kind of nearsighted or myopic condition seems to happen a lot at this time in the offseason where we focus on individual trees around us, or rather the individual players added to the team, often times to the exclusion of the forest, or rather the cumulative effect on the team. The fundamental question “is the team better?” is probably more easily answered when viewed from above – a look at the forest rather than individual trees. So here’s my “drone’s eye” view of the 2021/22 Hawks relative to the end of the 2021 season.

    While there may still be move moves before the season starts, any players who might be moved out or brought in will probably be more fringe players and not real “needle movers”. The only potential season altering move would be if Toews isn’t able to play which would have (c)ripple effects throughout the lineup, so for the purpose of this post I’m going to assume Toews is going to play and play well.

    The simple analysis would be comparing the list of players added versus players removed. From that, projections can be made to gauge the overall cumulative effect to answer the question – is the team better?

    Players added: Toews, Dach, Johnson, Nylander, Borgstrom, Gaudette, Khaira, S.Jones, McCabe, C.Jones, MAF.

    Players removed: Suter, Kampf, Janmark, Soderberg, Wallmark, Hinostroza, Highmore, Shaw, Keith, Zadorov, Boqvist, Subban/Delia.

    The incoming forward group is far and away better than the outgoing forward group. The same can be said for goalie(s). The incoming/outgoing d-men groups are probably pretty close but I would say S.Jones is a better long term solution so it may be more or less equal for the 2021/22 season but better in the long run.

    So, is the team better? I would answer “yes”, and here’s why. To start, having Toews taking one of the top-6 center positions, winning faceoffs and leading by example by playing a defensively responsible 200′ game – the team is automatically better for his individual play but also for the ripple effect of having players slot into positions better. Then there is adding Johnson who will be Shaw-like in providing Swiss Army knife versatility. Dach for a full season including the invaluable training camp he didn’t get last season will be a big plus – potentially a very big plus. Losing Suter, Hinostroza and Kampf may hurt a bit but they all were flawed players easy to replace and with Borgstrom, Gaudette and the (hopefully) new and improved Nylander stepping in the upside potential of those players makes us quickly forget those outgoing forwards.

    MAF versus Subban/Delia … nuff said. MAF/Lankinen has a chance to be one of the best goalie tandems in the division or maybe even the league.

    Special Teams should be better with Toews back, especially the PK with his faceoff wins. Hagel was getting PK time toward the end of the season and with his quickness and doggedness I can see him becoming a very good PK’er. The Hawks’ PP is always an enigma so I’ll hold off on any optimism other than to say Toews should make at least the opening o-zone faceoff better so the PP unit doesn’t start the man advantage be retrieving the puck in their d-zone and trying to get it into the 0-zone.

    Will the team’s won/loss record be better? I don’t know because their division may be better than the goofy 2021 divisions, but I’m very encouraged that the answer to the question “is the team better” is a resounding “YES”.

  • August 13, 2021 at 1:25 pm
    Permalink

    EB i would add a much better dressing room as well. Remember last year the comments about lack of leadership, Murphy and little else it seemed. Now with Toews leadership back in there, add MAF, Tyler Johnson and hopefully Jones plays a leadership role as well. That should also improve the overall chemistry by significant amount as well.

  • August 13, 2021 at 1:54 pm
    Permalink

    ER – all good points however I would argue that the Hawks division this year will be weaker than the Covid division with TB FLA and CAR

    Sure there is COL in the Central but after that no real top teams and those others in the division don’t seem to have improved to the extent the Hawks did

    I think the Central this year is wide open after COL

  • August 13, 2021 at 2:12 pm
    Permalink

    @Ebony: I don’t think there is any person here that is denying that on paper this team is better than last year. The question is why now after just a couple of months of “rebuilding” now all of a sudden StanBo goes on a spending spree to get this team into a “win now” mode. Seems kind of strange doesn’t it?? S Jones trade: me personally that’s not what I would have done(I would have drafted one of the two goalies and develop one more year) and this is from a person who thought before the trade happened that the Hawks were still going with the kids, get the cap situation up to snuff and maybe plan on next year trying a run. Obviously StanBo didn’t think he was going to develop a #1 DMan and he went with S Jones. Not happy with the contract but I’m fine with the thinking behind it because it cleans up more messes from StanBo not being able to find or develop a #1 DMan. Of course next year’s draft there will be nobody there that remotely will help the team. Reverting back to the question: Why did StanBo suddenly go on a spending spree and now we are in a “win now” mode???? Because he’s willing to sacrifice the future in order to hopefully save his job in the present when the “big old logs” finally hit the fan. Its really that simple. StanBo had the support from Rocky to do a complete rebuilding which would take years in Stan Time. Now we’re going to “win”.

  • August 13, 2021 at 2:47 pm
    Permalink

    Hammer – I don’t think anyone outside the Hawks inner sanctum fully understand the rationale for the moves made and the supposed change in direction – including you and me. We can speculate all we want and that’s all well and good – but using absolutes in opinions crosses the line into hyperbole, in my opinion.

    My guess is there were 3 things that kind of converged which compelled the Hawks to make the moves they did – (1) Keith requesting a trade, (2) Toews announcing he was ready to come back, and (3) Seth Jones becoming available. Those 3 things changed the shape of the future and the Hawks changed their direction to best take advantage of it. I think it could be more of an acceleration of the rebuild more than and abandonment of it. The acquisition of S.Jones is both a now and future move that fits nicely with the “now” moves of Toews coming back and acquiring MAF, and to a lesser extent Johnson who probably won’t be here longer than his current 3 year contract.

    The rationale is Toews may not have years of elite level playing left, if he even has this season, so a case can be made at giving the captain another shot at the brass ring. MAF is a one year thing that certainly doesn’t affect future rebuild plans and could be argued it helps by mentoring Lankinen and gives the young players a better and potentially more winning environment to play in. Johnson brings a winning pedigree that should be a positive influence on the young players too.

    I see this as a win/win situation. If the Hawks make the playoffs – win. If they don’t make the playoffs, the Hawks have still acquired a #1 d-man and given Toews another shot at winning hockey game – win.

  • August 13, 2021 at 3:55 pm
    Permalink

    @Craig: the average ranking on Allen across the various scouting services was #81 (i.e. real scouts, forget about Pronman). Last year it was Commesso picked 4o spots higher than he was rated. Boqvist and Beaudin were reaches. Every draft is the same with our pasty wee Stanley out to to prove he’s smarter than the rest of the hockey world.

  • August 13, 2021 at 6:03 pm
    Permalink

    The recent history of Hawks draft picks have been littered with selections the experts have deemed a stretch, including Reichel last season when the consensus was late 1st to early 2nd. The advantage the experts have is that if they’re wrong it is several years later and the circus has already left town – so who cares about back then – they’re too busy with the current crop of mostly crap shoot prospects.

    And then there’s the matter of degrees of separation between an 18 year old player they rank at 40 versus the one they have at #80. Very likely the player they will become in 3-4 years is significantly different then the player they are when they’re 18. I’m not suggesting pro scouts don’t do a good job of evaluating player but professional guesswork is still guesswork – better guesswork than I’m capable of doing but still a lot of guesswork projections.

    In addition there is drafting philosophy which could change from the 1st round through the 7th round depending on various factors. When do you select the player with a potential high ceiling but little chance of reaching it versus a lower ceiling guy with better odds to reach his lower ceiling. And so on.

    I think most of the angst about draft picks caused by someone else guessing is a lot of misspent energy.

  • August 13, 2021 at 6:08 pm
    Permalink

    So, no one really knows what is being done, or why. All we ‘know’ is:

    1. On paper we have a better – or at least different – team than the awful one from last year.
    2. The Coaching staff remains unchanged.

    Therefore, I am going out on my patio, light up a fine cigar, enjoy an adult beverage and not try to figure out what the Blackhawks are doing, or why. After all, that is what the phrase ‘Who Is John Galt?’ actually means: ‘a kind of question that makes you stare into oblivion seeking answers to events that ordinarily we don’t know how to unscrew’

  • August 13, 2021 at 6:11 pm
    Permalink

    Jordy, I’ve commented many of the Hawks recent draft pick have been considered reaches but I don’t think Boqvist at #8 was one of them. He was one of the d-men consistently ranked in the top-10 along with Dahlen, Q.Hughes and Bouchard, with Dobson being borderline. Other than Dahlen, Boqvist was in the conversation of him versus Hughes. He was not a reach.

  • August 13, 2021 at 10:19 pm
    Permalink

    Wijg isn’t obvious with some key players healthy again, they filled some other major holes and are putting a more competitive team out there. That is what sports are all about, cap management and prospect pools make good conversation but winning is why you play the game. Drafting is obviously an important way to make a team better but as i have posted before no player drafted in the top 10 of any draft since 2010 has won a cup with the team that drafted them, none.
    VGK have been strong contenders since coming into the league with no prospect pool and in cap hell every year. As i said before another dynasty is a pipe dream but opportunities to make a cup run here and there, stayed tuned maybe.

  • August 13, 2021 at 10:51 pm
    Permalink

    Bowman seems to be getting better with age (experience)… Just maybe he was listening to other ppls opinions on what to do as far as signings and drafts… Now he said, “ I am gunna pull the trigger on deals that make this team better without hurting the future as much as possible”. Losing on purpose by playing all young rookie players and not aquiring talent like MAF & Jones,McCabe do not make young players better…Winning breeds winning… losing sux.
    Whether you agree or not, he is The Boss and he has to do as he does, or he is gone…
    Lets see how this season plays out as he Did make this team Better…

  • August 14, 2021 at 7:48 am
    Permalink

    wonder if Hawks pursue Barzal- if Toews can’t go

    Love me Some Barzal- guy can fly

  • August 14, 2021 at 11:22 am
    Permalink

    Friend told me that there’s More to Toews story than being reported… Konroyd being replaced by a women…

  • August 14, 2021 at 11:36 am
    Permalink

    Some euphemisms deserve to be euthanized, especially those coined by someone who can’t figure out how to spell her own name … just kidding. Actually I’m in agreement with much of Ms. Rand’s philosophy, albeit I come to it from a different perspective. Small wonder she has fallen out of favor with the prevailing intelligentsia, if she ever was. Oh well, back to ducking low lest I be struck by a stray euphemistic projectile.

  • August 14, 2021 at 11:41 am
    Permalink

    Billy – reading between the lines, er dots, are you suggesting the “more to the Toews story” and Konroyd being replaced by a woman are somehow connected?

  • August 14, 2021 at 1:11 pm
    Permalink

    Once Stan completes his work by moving Strome, Dehaan, and Nylander this will be a much better team than what we all had to endure the last 2 months of last year. I look forward to it as it definitely put Colliton and staff on the clock.

  • August 14, 2021 at 2:55 pm
    Permalink

    I suppose if a player compels you to play the “what if” game in order to feel optimistic about them it probably means the odds are against them doing what you hope they will do. Strome is probably the Hawks candidate for the “what if” award because he has – not one – not two – but three “what if”‘s that need to be answered in the affirmative for Hawks fans to be optimistic about his play in the coming season.

    1. What if Strome improved his skating? He would have to make huge strides, pardon the pun, for his skating to rise to the level of adequate.

    2. What if Strome improved his conditioning and stamina? He would be a much better player because his level of play won’t fall off a cliff after the 30 second mark.

    3. What if Strome dedicated himself to learning to play wing? This one requires #1 and #2 to be answered in the affirmative, but if they are and if he really gives it 100% effort – then he probably has a spot on the team.

    So I guess that’s a long winded way of saying I’m on board with hoping Stan finds a trading partner for Strome and I’m not hung up on the return being anything juicy – hell a 3rd rounder would suffice at this point.

  • August 14, 2021 at 4:00 pm
    Permalink

    How does a guy who’s skating is not even “adequate” get drafted 3rd overall?

  • August 14, 2021 at 4:24 pm
    Permalink

    B Reay
    I still have that same feeling that Toews will not play with Chicago next years .and iff he plays ,it will not be for long period and will get trade because he doesn’t want to play for this team anymore..
    I don’t feel him anymore,maybe he is overdue to move on with another team like …Winnipeg ? Or ?

  • August 14, 2021 at 4:52 pm
    Permalink

    Strome for DeBrusk sounds like an interesting trade to me – two underachievers from the first round of the 2015 draft

    DeBrusk was playing 4th line in the playoffs and the Bs have an opening at 2C now that Krejci has returned home

    If Strome only brings back a 3rd rounder before the season I’d hang on to him and see if he can up his value before TDL

    This year the Hawks should be better and they should compete for a playoff spot perhaps make it but nevertheless it’s still in my mind another year to establish who can play for a Cup winner eventually – we want a mix of young players with the vets IMO

    Not sure how it will work out roster wise but I’d be disappointed if Kurashev and Kalnyuk spend very much time in RKF – unless their play takes a nosedive I think they should be playing NHL minutes

    Beaudin and Mitchell, Hardman and Entwistle I’m fine with spending a majority of the season in the AHL with occasional call ups as they assimilate to the NHL game

  • August 14, 2021 at 5:54 pm
    Permalink

    Doubt if Boston would consider Strome… He is the exact opposite of a Boston type player.

    Boston wants skill or greasy/gritty players. Or combo of the two skills.
    Strome is not either.

  • August 14, 2021 at 6:41 pm
    Permalink

    Stan Bowman has an interesting history with 1st Round draft choices. The good ones he selected were dealt away. The ones that underachieve he acquires, then got rid of )(or will) like their predecessors did.

    Pick Player Drafted by Blackhawks Draft Year
    24 Kevin Hayes (RW) 2010
    18 Mark McNeill (C) 2011
    26 Phillip Danault (LW) 2011
    18 Teuvo Teravainen (RW) 2012
    30 Ryan Hartman (RW) 2013
    20 Nick Schmaltz (C) 2014
    29 Henri Jokiharju (D) 2017
    8 Adam Boqvist (D) 2018
    27 Nicolas Beaudin (D) 2018
    3 Kirby Dach (C) 2019

    Pick PlayerTraded for by Blackhawks Draft Year
    24 Malcolm Subban (G) 2012
    22 Olli Maatta (D) 2012
    16 Nikita Zadorov (D) 2013
    30 John Quenneville (C) 2014
    12 Brendan Perlini (LW) 2014
    3 Dylan Strome (C) 2015
    8 Alexander Nylander (LW) 2016
    23 Henrik Borgstrom (C) 2016

    Subban, Nylander and Strome are less than likely to be a Blackhawk next year.

  • August 14, 2021 at 7:39 pm
    Permalink

    Koekoek and Runblad were also 1st rounders traded for

  • August 14, 2021 at 11:23 pm
    Permalink

    Sometimes it just gets exhausting. When I stop and think about it, which I try to avoid as much as possible, I’m perplexed how so many fellow commenters here and other sites seem to thrive on negativity and anger. It makes me wonder if it extends into other areas of their life or if it’s only for relatively insignificant things like sports fandom. I hope it’s the latter. The whole lifeblood of anger and negativity is so foreign to me that I continue to have to take a step back when faced with it even though it’s not something I don’t see quite often. It’s not that I never get angry or have negative thoughts – I do – just not usually about things that don’t really affect the one I love, as as much as I love the Hawks – my love for them doesn’t rise to the level of the significant things I love. The Hawks, and all sports, are entertainment. It’s an escape from the real world – it’s an escape from the negativity and anger in the real world. Why bring that negativity and anger into you sanctuary? Again, I’m not referring to the temporary passions after a bad play or hard loss – I’m referring to coming here time and again for the purpose of unloading on whatever target you’ve chosen. Does that make you feel better to do that? If it does maybe you should ask yourself why.

  • August 15, 2021 at 12:32 am
    Permalink

    ER – My decades of experience on boards has taught me that there are Walldogs everywhere and they love the attention of being told they are wrong, stirring the pot time and again to get more people bothered. What appears to be a large group is usually only a few that like to talk to each other in different wardrobes. Thus, Walldogs.

    Their conversation is only as impactful as the rest of the board allows it. Get sucked in and argue with them and they stick around and stir some more. And stir some more. And stir some more. And then when bored, they stir a little more.

    When I am the target of their rants, I find it easier to ignore them than when I am not the target, sometimes getting sucked into the world of barking WOOF in the night.

    Logic and reasoning has no affect on them. They aren’t here to learn or teach, only to annoy and disrupt. Conversing with them give them strength and more purpose.

    We can’t keep them out, but we can keep them only talking to themselves. If we want to.

    Wanna be the fisherman or the fish?

    The rest of us aren’t going to agree on everything Blackhawks, but we can agree to disagree and enjoy the comradery and the discussions that boards like this one can bring. So again, thanks Tab for giving us a place to share points of view.

  • August 15, 2021 at 2:23 am
    Permalink

    Er … no connection between the two… Sorry for the way I type… 2 different topics…
    Go Hawks !!!!

  • August 15, 2021 at 5:42 am
    Permalink

    ER – if you are commenting on my post, reread it. I only said that “Stan Bowman has an interesting history with 1st Round draft choices” and provided a list of 1st Rounders that have come and gone.

    I just find it fascinating, and thought I would share it.

    I hope it was not I that ruffled the feathers in your headdress.

  • August 15, 2021 at 6:14 am
    Permalink

    In preparing my list of 1st Rounders that came and went, I saw many names – some familiar, some not – that never had much of a career in the NHL (if at all).

    My theory is that those who succeed are those with the right character and attitude. It underscores the need to evaluate players on something more than stats and skills.

    Take a look at each year’s 1st Round draft choices and look at the success / casualty rate across the league.

  • August 15, 2021 at 8:07 am
    Permalink

    JG – right so with that in mind we should all keep an open mind about Nolan Allan Hawks first rounder this year at #32

    You can see that relationship you’re talking about in the list I posted earlier where I compared a writer’s 1st round rankings of the prospects from the 2015 class with the re-drafting of that same class 6 years later

  • August 15, 2021 at 8:49 am
    Permalink

    SS – I know, and you’re right. It’s not worth a moment of angst. And, I must offer a mea culpa because I’m not innocent of contributing to the situation – often times I’m in the mood to argue because I find it fun. So color me a hypocrite, but it can still be exhausting and deflating because it is as relentless as swimming against the tide – even if you reach the other side, the tide doesn’t care and continues to roll on. It would be one thing if this were a cathartic outlet but I get the sense that much like the tide there is nothing to be gained for them – they just roll on.

    Oh well. It’s my problem and no one else’s. This site doesn’t exist to make me happy. I’m happy and appreciative Tab provides this site and it is the best Hawks message board going.

  • August 15, 2021 at 9:02 am
    Permalink

    WIJG – no, it wasn’t directed at you, per se, because there is a cumulative effect that is not exclusive to any one commenter. That said, I think it’s a weasel move when comments attempt to lead the witness by what is not said, especially when done with faux impartiality. Looking at your list (up until Boqvist in 2018), one unsaid thing stands out. Gee, I wonder why some context was not included.

  • August 15, 2021 at 9:24 am
    Permalink

    ER – “lead the witness”? Is there a trial going on? LMAO!

    Lighten up Francis.

    I was simply trying to make the point there needs to be more emphasis put on a player’s intangible attributes. IMO, that applies to us fans, writers, scouts, GMs, coaches, etc…

  • August 15, 2021 at 9:34 am
    Permalink

    It seems to me that some people are rather confused here. Some people liken it to arguing and even make up names for people if they don’t agree with their opinions. I’ve always used these type of forums to DEBATE about opinions that I may or may not agree with. I believe I’ve been very cordial here but I don’t belong to a certain “clique” here, I just voice my opinion whether its right or whether it doesn’t align with the “clique”. I’ve commented when StanBo has done something intelligent and I certainly comment when he’s done stuff not so intelligent or even when he’s possibly done something illegal in a court of law. I notice here thou that a majority of the people here pay no attention at all to the legal mess that the Blackhawk organization is currently under and I find it very puzzling to say the least but some people pay attention to that kind of stuff while others seem to bury their heads in the sand pretending that either it didn’t happen or they don’t want to believe their beloved StanBo could be guilty of such a thing and think he’s cut short the rebuild to bring us home a winner. That is my 2 cents for today and seeing its a beautiful day and I’ve already got my golf in for today its time to rest and relax and the listen to the birds sing.

  • August 15, 2021 at 10:24 am
    Permalink

    @Hammer, I try to share my observations and (hopefully) insights about most matters related to the Blackhawks and engage in honest discourse. Although, I don’t think my observations and insights are very welcome because most people simply want to play GM or Coach-for-the-Day – proposing deals, making draft choices, assessing talent, creating lines, etc… Everyone has opinions on those matters that they want to share and debate. The other stuff? Not so much.

    Then there are some that seem overly protective of Stan Bowman, or the Blackhawks in general, and react as if someone is casting aspersions when posting something negative (just my observation). If you dislike Stan Bowman or Jeremy Colliton (as I do), it is only because you are a naysayer, hater, angry, negative, etc…. Your reasons for not liking them is simply the result of flawed logic, misinformation, ignorance, stupidity, etc…

    But, it sure is entertaining at times.

  • August 15, 2021 at 10:42 am
    Permalink

    @Craig Nigrelli – I love the phrase “Hipster Wirtz”! Har. I’m gonna remember that one, right up there with when someone recently referred to Colliton as “The Youth Pastor”.

  • August 15, 2021 at 11:03 am
    Permalink

    Hammer – unlike another Hawks message board I used to frequent, I don’t get the sense there are any cliques here at Tab’s site. Any mob type activity is organic and germane to a specific topic – not directed at certain posters. At least that’s been my observation.

    My two cents on the legal issue is I think it’s poser correctness run amok. I am 100% in favor of prosecution to the fullest any individual guilty of sexual abuse when it comes to children or man against woman. Not ifs ands or buts. In fact I would make the punishment more severe that the current counts allow. But, and here is the salient point – this was not sexual abuse against a child or woman. As far as I understand there was no physical violence and the perpetrator and victim(s) were all adult men and I don’t think that situation rises to the level the victimhood assigned to the affected “victims”. I realize our society is now one where men are supposed to be emasculated, and like it, but what man reading this post would feel they were sexually abused if another man self abused himself in our presence. Really? My reaction would be to either ridicule him, tell him to F*off or tell him if he ever tried that shit again he would have a major problem on his hands – not from the police or other authority but from me directly and will ill intent. When did men stop being men and society not even notice?

  • August 15, 2021 at 11:18 am
    Permalink

    WIJG – life is a trial, isn’t it? We are immersed in different types of evidence that pulls us this way and that and influences our lives and the decisions we make. Constantly.

    You and I both know that there are those who seek confirmation bias which you tailor to provide. Obviously it’s your right to do so. as it’s your right to do so under the guise of impartiality. In a way, my comments compliment you.

  • August 15, 2021 at 11:29 am
    Permalink

    EBONY, I liked your 3 What Ifs about Strome. It’s interesting that those exact issues were presented by a Coyotes writer after Strome,s rookie season. I was very curious when their writers and blogs were almost celebrating when he was traded to the Hawks. Should have known back then what we were in for.

  • August 15, 2021 at 11:44 am
    Permalink

    @Tim W. – I checked out comments from Denver after the Zadorov trade, Buffalo after Nylander and Arizona after Strome and found the same thing – glad to be rid of them.

    It’s like deja vu all over again.

  • August 15, 2021 at 12:16 pm
    Permalink

    Most trades involve a player or players that a team and their fans are unhappy with

  • August 15, 2021 at 12:47 pm
    Permalink

    Lol read the comments here after Schmaltz, Joki and Boqvist were traded. Even when Teuvo was traded alot thought he wasn’t a very good player at that time. Ditto for Danault, i remember at the time he was traded posting he could be a loss that will be regretted, a very limited amount of posters said the same thing at the time. Even Panarin, a large number of posters blamed him for playoff disappearances and were excited about getting Saad back. Not a real solid way to judge a trade.

  • August 15, 2021 at 1:06 pm
    Permalink

    When a team is not winning with their current Roster, it is the GM’s Job to change the roster as best as he can to try to better it… Some players get moved in return for “for the highest valued player” in a trade… We as fans or Blackhawks don’t set that value of the ones leaving here.. Their play,age & their contracts do… Looking BACK a year or two Afterwards Is sooo easy…. Lets see how our Blackhawks team plays this year….
    GO HAWKS !!!!!!

  • August 15, 2021 at 1:08 pm
    Permalink

    I was disappointed to see Saad, Jokiharju, Teravainen, Panarin, Hjalmarsson, Shaw and Lehner go even if I understood why or thought it was a good deal (e.g. Hjalmarsson/Murphy).

    In my small bubble of Blackhawk fans that I watch games with, and are not on this board, the sentiment was the same. We hated to lose any of them.

    So, I have a different POV than Wrap and Ian when I read what other team’s fans say about a player we just acquired. So far, comments about Zadorov, Nylander and Strome have proven prescient.

    With that said, I think McCabe is going to be a great pick up. Seth Jones and Marc Andre Fleury too.

  • August 15, 2021 at 2:34 pm
    Permalink

    JG – it’s almost like you want to call Bowman, Stan. ; )

  • August 15, 2021 at 2:45 pm
    Permalink

    I was disappointed in several trades, although for the most part I understood the rationale for the trade. If I had to pick one that disappointed me the most it was Teuvo. I understood the circumstances of offloading Bickell to keep the core group together for more runs at the Cup. As usual there were several thing that led to the trade, including Stan deciding to pay fair market value to resign Bickell after coming off his SCF heroics prior to him being diagnosed and couldn’t play anymore. That was just unlucky and at the time Teuvo hadn’t turned into the player he is today and in fact many Hawks fans were pretty disappointed in him (not me – I that he would become much better than he was at that point – and he has). But, I thought at the time that there were other options Stan could have taken and in retrospect there probably were.

    Danault was another one but he was a fringe player at the time and I believe Q wanted more “tough to play against” veterans for the playoff run and Stan accommodated him by getting 2 of those types of veterans who pretty much spit the bit which makes the trade look terrible, especially after Danault grew into the player we though he could be.

    Saad and Panarin were all about money and cap certainty and the only issue I have there is not giving Kane/Panarin another season to see if they could lead the Hawks in the playoffs. But both Saad and Panarin were salary cap wreckers and Stan made the moves to keep the salary cap from getting woes from getting worse. Hjalmarsson/Murphy – eh, Hammy was slowing down and Murphy was younger and mad a lot more runway left.

  • August 15, 2021 at 3:15 pm
    Permalink

    @Wrap, I have been trying to be more ‘professional’ in how I refer to Stan Bowman so as not to give Stan’s Fans more ammunition to hate me.

    One of the many reasons I dislike Stan Bowman is that he was the reason those players went away and and the failed and underachievers came here. Spare me lame excuses about salary cap constraints (that every team has to deal with) and the crap that HE won 3 Cups.

  • August 15, 2021 at 3:30 pm
    Permalink

    Wijg my point was often comments made at the point of a trade are by emotion, either excitement about who is obtained or despair of losing a player who was a favorite. Yes there are some that mirror the truth and some don’t, either way not always a good way to gauge it. I didn’t like the Joki or Schmaltz deals and was open about that at the time but they are something that can’t be changed so no point dwelling on it.

    Borgstrom was scouted by european scouts as was Teuvo and Boqvist, so hopefully thats a good thing.

    As far as the comment from Hammer saying people are pretending the legal issues don’t exist. I prefer to hear what both say sides in a court of law before rushing to judgement. Trying to win a case in court of public opinion often but not always means weakness of a case legally. Should any wrong doing be punished, absolutely. Time will tell how that plays out in this case.

  • August 15, 2021 at 4:19 pm
    Permalink

    JG – Gee I almost bought your attempt at being more “professional “ until your last paragraph – should have quit while you were ahead

    It’s curious to me that you insist on segregating those that disagree with you into Stan’s who seemingly get off on hating you

    Maybe it’s not about you

  • August 15, 2021 at 4:19 pm
    Permalink

    *Stan’s Fans* that should have been

  • August 15, 2021 at 4:23 pm
    Permalink

    Definition of lame excuse – when it doesn’t serve your narrative.

  • August 15, 2021 at 5:56 pm
    Permalink

    Ian- I have seen Danault – a dozen times in Rockford… and always said he was the man down there. A beast on the boards – and always controlled play. I was a Big fan of his here- for a long time- and TT as well.

    Just sayin

  • August 15, 2021 at 6:31 pm
    Permalink

    Bluto did not mean everybody, some were supporters of them for sure, just that alot posts at the time they were traded, seemed to be ok trading those guys and didn’t portray them in a positive light.

  • August 15, 2021 at 8:53 pm
    Permalink

    Is Boquist gunna be a stud as a #1~3 defenseman in the next 4 years ?
    Want to write this Crystal Ball prediction down NOW… not in 4 years…. type when your ready…..
    Go Hawks!!!!!

  • August 15, 2021 at 8:55 pm
    Permalink

    McCabe, Jone, Fleury are great players NOW.
    Lmao….

  • August 16, 2021 at 12:15 am
    Permalink

    I don’t personally know any posters at this site. Their internet personas cloak them in anonymity, as does mine to them. What we “know” of each other is at best an analog of the real person but hardly representative of the singularity of their life. Is it really possible to “hate” an internet persona? My presumption is “no”, not really.

    I suspect the use of the word hate is probably done tongue in cheek (at least I hope so, I would “hate” to think paranoia is playing a role), and I suspect it is probably in reference to the “Stan haters” label recently objected to. I think a case could be made that, unlike anonymous internet figures, strong feelings such as hate could be had for public figures, even without personally knowing them. But even then, I question if any members of the so called “Stan haters club” truly hate the real person Stan Bowman. Nope, I used the term as a label to represent what I see as anti-Stan groupthink.

    So let me clear: I do not believe anyone posting on this site actually hates the human being Stan Bowman. Many may hate the decisions he’s made but that’s not hating the human being. Therefore, when I use the label “Stan haters” – it’s not personal and it’s not literal.

  • August 16, 2021 at 7:43 am
    Permalink

    B Reay
    I think Boqvist will be a Top 3 Dman but also think he will not last more then 3-4 years because he gets contusion to often and he will not play hockey anymore
    The guy is to fragile and other players know how to scare and hit those soft players.
    Maybe in a league in Europe he can be good but in NHL …not sure .
    Wish him good luck with his new team .

  • August 16, 2021 at 8:41 am
    Permalink

    Yesterday was a beautiful day and today looks nice too. @EB: I understand what you are saying about the “Scandal” but even thou we can call those players affected “men” they were pressured by a person that had a authority position that threatened them with taking away their livelihood, so IMO its not just about them telling Aldrich just to “hit the bricks”. Yours and my reaction to this would be the same but for a person that wants to make hockey their career and their livelihood, it may not be that easy. That’s why I’m totally disgusted that this happened and was swept under the rug. According to news sources many season tickets holders are so disgusted with this that they are turning their tickets back in. @ John Galt, I don’t personally hate StanBo but because I want him escorted from the building(which would take care of Kid Coach also) I too can be classified as a hater and proudly will wear that label.

  • August 16, 2021 at 10:00 am
    Permalink

    Hammer, it’s impossible to have an informed opinion when not in possession of all the information, so admittedly my opinion could change as more information becomes available … but, going on what I think is reliable information now, albeit possibly incomplete, the “victims” spoke to someone in the organization so that should have assured them that whatever episode happened was not going to derail their dreams of being a professional hockey player. Even if nothing was done by the Hawks – AND – they had handled their reaction to Aldridge like men, then they should have moved on with their lives and not succumbed to being played the victim.

    I can see how the situation would play differently if Aldridge was the head coach or someone with real authority having the power to affect their career – but this was the frickin video guy. C’mon!

  • August 16, 2021 at 11:32 am
    Permalink

    Billy Reay, That’s my opinion on Boqvist also except I don’t think he will ever be able to play enough games to be considered a top tier D Man. His concussion issues at such a young age serve as a big problem for him. For my personal likes of players Stan is moving the players that I would have liked to see moved. I.E Kamph,Zadorov, and Boqvist so far. Hopefully Strome,Carpenter, Dehaan, Nylander,and Connolly to move on next.

  • August 16, 2021 at 4:45 pm
    Permalink

    Yes, so Boquist (based on size & ALREADY had like 3 concussions) is Not gunna make it as a Top Dman…. So trading him for Jones was a Good Trade by the Hawks (length of contract is different discussion)….
    As far as thus scandal goes, First of all we don’t have ALL the facts ( only fact are from ones trying to COLLECT MONEY), and secondly – WHY DIDN’T player call or go the the COPS HIMSELF and/or punch him out, thus telling him to Stop touching? Tell your Boss AND CALL the COPS to report it…
    It appears that “Not my fault” is playing out for potential cash payout… IMO.

    An NHL Hockey player sitting still and Allowing this— seriously?
    We’ll see when more Facts surface.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *