Blackhawks Re-Sign Brandon Hagel

On Friday, the Blackhawks announced the club has re-signed forward Brandon Hagel to a three-year deal with a $1.5 million cap hit.

Hagel, who turns 23 on Aug. 27, was marvelous for the Hawks last year. He scored nine goals with 15 assists in 52 games and seamlessly moved around the roster, contributing in a variety of roles.

He was originally drafted in the sixth round (#159 overall) in the 2016 NHL Draft by the Buffalo Sabres, but signed with the Blackhawks in 2018.

129 thoughts on “Blackhawks Re-Sign Brandon Hagel

  • August 6, 2021 at 9:19 am
    Permalink

    Great news and great value. The kid will easily outperform this deal.

  • August 6, 2021 at 9:39 am
    Permalink

    Good to have that done, great news.

  • August 6, 2021 at 10:24 am
    Permalink

    WOOT WOOT ! ! ! !

    Good job Stan … oops, am I allowed to say that? :-)

    Now get Nylander signed on a similar deal which keeps them less than $3.9M over the Cap which is the Shaw’s cap hit that will me moved to LTIR after Game#1. Make some paper transactions to get under the Cap for Day#1 such as send deHaan, Connolly and Carpenter to Rockford which reduces the Hawks Cap hit by $3M and there you go.

    I think. Somebody check my math.

  • August 6, 2021 at 11:16 am
    Permalink

    Hagel- does it again… continues to impress on ice and off ice with that Hawk friendly contract. Really sweet deal for Hawks- kid is hitting his prime/ and signing for 3 years was a gift to Hawks.

  • August 6, 2021 at 12:03 pm
    Permalink

    Very happy with this deal. Especically the 3 year term. It will help fill out the forward ranks moving forward when Jones monster cap hit comes into play next year.

  • August 6, 2021 at 12:05 pm
    Permalink

    Love this deal. The kid has earned the security and the opportunity. I’ll take 3 more Hagel’s please

  • August 6, 2021 at 12:20 pm
    Permalink

    It’s good for the Hawks that Hagel is so versatile that he can play up and down the lineup, but that may work a little bit against him reaching to scoring numbers he could if he played exclusively in a scoring winger role. As it is, he may end up playing more 3rd/4th line because the Hawks don’t have many guys who can play that irritating hard to play against style like Shaw did. Kurashev isn’t as physical but he’s very good at puck hunting and maybe put them on a line with Johnson at center might be a pretty good 3rd line.

  • August 6, 2021 at 12:22 pm
    Permalink

    Good deal for Hawks and Hagel – a little more term for a little more $

    Hagel if he continues to play the way he did last year and improves on that will be looking at a nice raise in 3 years

    ER – I doubt the Hawks would put DeHaan on waivers – Connolly and Carp I can see but they would want to keep CDH for his potential trade value as well as being a top 4 D until he is traded

    However they could send any or all of Dach Kurashev and Kalynuk down without waivers – that’s almost $3 million in contracts there – and then bring them back up once the season starts and Shaw goes on LTIR

  • August 6, 2021 at 12:31 pm
    Permalink

    IMO Dach was not really rushed – his progress has been stalled a bit because of injury not because he was really rushed – I think we are going to see a fully recovered and much better Dach this year especially with a full training camp

    I could be convinced that a few months in the AHL for Dach would have been good but the Hawks didn’t have that option – if they sent him back to juniors he would have had to stay all year so I think they handled it correctly

    Boquist was rushed a bit because of injury on CHI’s back end but you could argue that without that early exposure and with some early success maybe CBJ doesn’t want him in a trade so getting Boquist playing time may have helped get Jones to CHI

    In both Dach and Boquist’s cases the Hawks weren’t really competing for the playoffs – the fact that they got there in the bubble was a bonus – and letting young players learn on the job was fine – in the long term I think both players will have benefited from starting their NHL careers a little earlier than expected

  • August 6, 2021 at 12:37 pm
    Permalink

    Dach was tremendous in the bubble. I think a lot of people here either forget that or didn’t watch much of those series.

  • August 6, 2021 at 12:58 pm
    Permalink

    Dach should be very good and be everything you want in a top-6 center with the possible exception of scoring goals. He can and probably will get better at that as his career goes along but it’s probably not going to be an issue if he has good scoring wingers and Kane/DCat would certainly qualify as good scoring wingers.

  • August 6, 2021 at 1:15 pm
    Permalink

    This is a GREAT news…. wish they would sign him for 4-5 years but it’s ok and it’s really cheap I think .
    I am very excited with the news and now I would love to trade DeHaan , Strome and maybe move Shaw contract . Maybe they will keep Shaw contract for later .
    Hagel is probably very happy and will now be able to just concentrate on training for coming season .

  • August 6, 2021 at 1:22 pm
    Permalink

    I thought Dach was brought along slowly and nicely, and gained enough of a foothold to accept the greater responsibility in the bubble. I thought that his first year was handled very well, at a time he appeared somewhat overmatched at times. But he also showed he had moves and some hints of strength in front of the net, all things he had shown in tapes before being selected.

    A contract year now for Dach. We need him to remain healthy to better judge his current standing in the league.

    Boqvist, in my opinion, was brought along too soon. But our back end was a mess and we needed someone cheap. He was the chosen one. I think it actually set him back. He didn’t appear strong enough or a good enough skater to find his way in the league at first appearances. His confidence likely teetered, though I don’t think he showed it to us outwardly (a good thing for him). He had some tough pairings that didn’t protect him, and that made him look worse. I don’t know that to be a coaching decision to see where he was at, or just the product of a defensive unit that wasn’t very deep or talented.

    Yes, I took my shots at him. I do wish him well, but I think he is likely to be a more offensive Dman that develops more in his mid 20s than in short order, kind of a Gus that doesn’t skate as well, but more productive with offense. I feel he was expendable and an acceptable loss in the Jones trade.

    Hagel is just a different kind of athlete and competitor. He exemplifies what I like in athletes – try your best and get the most out of your talents. Work hard today, and even harder tomorrow. This is a special player, who I don’t think we really can judge about his ceiling. He will show us through his work ethics. I won’t be surprised to see him a 25 goal scorer, PK guy, and a versatile asset that becomes a major face on the team. A leader.

  • August 6, 2021 at 1:29 pm
    Permalink

    Forget what Dach did in the bubble, that’s the past. This last year was horrible for the short amount of time he played. As for this off-season, he better be preparing, learning to take faceoffs and getting stronger, otherwise, it will be a repeat of his most recent performances…..we shall see….and he better not get injured in training camp or preseason.

  • August 6, 2021 at 1:30 pm
    Permalink

    I think Hagel is almost the perfect model for an old fashioned 3rd liner – he can check and is defensively responsible, can skate and create offense, and score goals while igniting his team. His work ethic is virtually unmatched on this team.

    Seeing Dcat make major strides last year with similar efforts bodes well if the pattern can continue for our players.

  • August 6, 2021 at 1:41 pm
    Permalink

    Super excited to see Hagel signed for three years..nice cost certainty for a forward who can play on the second, third or fourth line and give you productive minutes..personally, I loved the Kubalik-Hagel connection last year..I’d like to see a top six of Cat-Dach-Kane and Kubalik-Toews-Hagel(although something tells me it’s going to be Kubalik-Toews-Nylander)..fill in the bottom six with Johnson, Kurashev and all of our bottom six winger options..

  • August 6, 2021 at 1:56 pm
    Permalink

    SilentSpot- Re: Hagel- well said! Guy is throwback competitor.

    And regardless of his stats- really comes to play- really noticeable… even when he doesn’t score.

    Hagel has unique skill of driving play with or without filling stat sheets. I can only recall a couple of games last year- where I did NOT notice him… and Hawks looked pretty bad those games- if I remember correctly.

  • August 6, 2021 at 2:44 pm
    Permalink

    S Spot
    Bluto
    Agree Hagel is the player every teams need and probably one offthe best warrior type of player in the league .( just my opinion)
    I really think he will become a 25-30 goals player for many years iff not hurt. And he has time to grow to 86- 90 kilos in the next few years.
    He definitely became my favourite player last year with the Hawks and was already a favourite in Red Deer on is last year.
    Will become a A someday I think .

  • August 6, 2021 at 3:24 pm
    Permalink

    This is kind of random but I was just watching Borgstrom highlights and his one timers from the right side are ridiculous. I’m just salivating over a top PP of:
    Dach, Borgstrom, Kane, Debrincat, and Jones. Dach in front of the net, Kane in the middle can pass to debrincat on the left, borgstrom on the right, or drop to Jones. Hope my dreams come true.

  • August 6, 2021 at 4:07 pm
    Permalink

    Good for Hagel! If he continues his good play he’ll be in great bargaining position in three years. Someone mentioned it above and I agree. I think a Kubalik-Toews-Hagel line would do a lot of damage.

    Lots of folks still want Strome out. I believe he has a lot of skill and just needs to be treated consistently. When he came to Chicago, that was no fluke. That was something like 55 games. The last two years have been so convoluted (for everyone) and I’m not sure JC didn’t contribute to his ups and downs. He makes a lot of NHL plays and, again, treated consistently, like he was two years ago, I think he fits well as center between Johnson and Kurashev. I think those guys would be dangerous as well.

  • August 6, 2021 at 7:02 pm
    Permalink

    Lots of good comments/posts. I like stuff like this.

    SILENT SPOT
    August 6, 2021 at 1:30 pm
    I think Hagel is almost the perfect model for an old fashioned 3rd liner – he can check and is defensively responsible, can skate and create offense, and score goals while igniting his team. His work ethic is virtually unmatched on this team.

    Seeing Dcat make major strides last year with similar efforts bodes well if the pattern can continue for our players.

  • August 6, 2021 at 7:03 pm
    Permalink

    I love Hagel like Shawzer and want Barratt to be like that.

  • August 6, 2021 at 7:26 pm
    Permalink

    38 19 8
    12 91 88
    91 17 23
    16 11 58

    29 4
    48 5
    82 61

  • August 6, 2021 at 7:30 pm
    Permalink

    Gander – thanks for Borg info – I’m excited to see if he can contribute to an NHL now that he’s more mature

    To me he’s a total wild card – I know I could watch some highlights as well but so I haven’t- I probably will before training camp but I’m not counting on much from him yet – maybe he’ll surprise I hope so

  • August 7, 2021 at 12:23 am
    Permalink

    I thought it would take more than this to sign Hagel. Granted, he didn’t have any leverage but does this contract reward him for the stellar season he had? We can differ on that.

    After seeing this deal, anybody that is crying about Suter being gone needs to stifle themselves. The fact that he got $3.25 from Detroit is almost laughable. I thought Hagel was worth almost that much. Softie Suter, not so much.

  • August 7, 2021 at 6:34 am
    Permalink

    This was a good move by Bowman. I think we all agree on that.

    Like so many things Bowman does, it’s usually either an ‘A’ or and ‘F’. This was an ‘A’. And, I give him credit for many of the moves he made over the last few weeks (even though I don’t like 8 year contracts for any player by any GM, whether its Seth Jones, Darnell Nurse or anyone else).

    However, I am not going to applaud him for pulling his car out of the ditch – unloading the Seabrook contract, needing to unload underachieving former 1st Round picks like Nylander, Strome, Zadorov for next to nothing, the Saad debacles, acquiring injury-prone players like Shaw who get injured, the Colliton/Brookbank shit show, etc… Let’s not forget he is still is the one who drove the car in the ditch (over and over).

    Also, there is a big difference between being critical of his Behavior and his Personality. I try to be fair and objective in evaluating Bowman’s behavior. But, I don’t have to like his personality. By contrast, there are some that seem to love the person and cannot objectively evaluate his behavior. They think everything ‘Stan’ (the giveaway is they always call him by his first name, like they actually know him) should be applauded.

  • August 7, 2021 at 8:05 am
    Permalink

    JG – defensive much

    So now if I call Stan by his first name my opinion will be dismissed by you and your cadre of would be influencers

    Good one

  • August 7, 2021 at 8:27 am
    Permalink

    Hagel or Suter
    Iff I had the choice…
    Hagel big time (Suter price ) or at 1.5 m$ For 3 years .
    No way I would consider a trade between the 2.
    Hagel …Done Deal .now 2years deal maximum at 1 million / year for Nylander.
    No way he deserve equal or more then Hagel .

  • August 7, 2021 at 8:59 am
    Permalink

    So, one line of praise followed by 3 paragraphs of criticism. How wonderfully fair and balanced by you. Give yourself an “A” and us Stan worshipers an “F”.

  • August 7, 2021 at 9:28 am
    Permalink

    Liked Suter and Kahun was ok to what do we need players like Kubalik Hagel other not more small skilled players like Kahun Suter reguardless of caphits/yrs.

    Those guys would be fine if they were part of 5 lines when were deep. We need to keep the better of the prospects and ths eruo ufas.

    12 77 8 are going to be good top 6 FW 19 88 arnt going anywhere so we need one more two when 19 does the 3rd line thing from 35-40/per say.

    Kahun Suter are not top 6 quality that we want sure they can play to have them on 3rd line would be ok so want better top 6 players then these guys and we have more gritty two way FWs for 3rd line action like Hagel Kurachev Barratt Johnson others.

    Funny thing is when Bowman overpay? for caphits people say stuff now with a good caphit for a player we didnt pay him enough for his goods? Can Bowman do anything right other then manage a dynasty.

    Just keep pushing wether things are good or bad keep pushing.

  • August 7, 2021 at 11:13 am
    Permalink

    Mo – Most here don’t think Stan managed the dynasty well either. Oh wait – Most here don’t think Bowman managed the dynasty well either.

    Geez. Life shouldn’t be this difficult.

    “Woof woof”, say the Walldogs.

  • August 7, 2021 at 11:22 am
    Permalink

    It sure is better than hearing 1 line of criticism and 3 paragraphs of heaping praise of somebody cleaning up his own messes. The Big Mess is yet to come but people seem to still want to steer away from that one here. Its only going to get amplified but will people want to hear it here??

  • August 7, 2021 at 11:45 am
    Permalink

    With what is signed

    Hagel Toews Kubalik
    DCat Dach Kane
    Johnson Gaudette Strome (in any position)
    Khaira Borgstrom Kurashev

    Jones Kalynuk
    McCabe Murphy
    deHaan Stillman/Jones

    Fluery
    Lankinen

    many others in play and others to move.

  • August 7, 2021 at 11:49 am
    Permalink

    I have cited the ‘A’s’ ‘Stan’ has earned over time.

    How about Wrap and EB cite all the ‘F’s’ he has earned, just to balance things out?

  • August 7, 2021 at 12:22 pm
    Permalink

    ROman, I had similiar with a 3/4 or higher roster we have now we can have players in spots they should be in trickle wise/before trickle where they belong. Still need some more good players to be full roster.

    MORRISON
    August 6, 2021 at 7:26 pm
    38 19 8
    12 91 88
    91 17 23
    16 11 58

    29 4
    48 5
    82 61

  • August 7, 2021 at 12:25 pm
    Permalink

    91 Johnson
    29 Cabe
    16 the new Eager

  • August 7, 2021 at 1:46 pm
    Permalink

    For the record not trying to annoy/double ck all stats/other for people thoughts opionions just now after 4/5 yrs were back not the whole way yet yet were back to having somwhere between a 3/4 to full more like 7/8 full roster so we can at least play and keep adjusting 23man to add more hardnosers.

    Load the young wave! And add the missing elites back/10 4 81 2 7. We got 12 and now 4 some more to go. When time is right.

  • August 7, 2021 at 1:58 pm
    Permalink

    JG – unlike you I don’t see Stan’s moves – and I call him Stan on purpose to make it easier for you to put a label on me and dismiss me as a ‘Stan-can do-no-wrong guy’

    It seems you have difficulty with shades of grey since most things Stan has done for you are either an ‘A’ or an ‘F’ – not much in between

    I actually see most of Stan’s moves as between those two extremes but just to humour you I’ll play along with your little game

    I consider an ‘F’ grade to be a complete fail so I don’t include any Saad trade or the trades for Nylander or Strome or losing TT in the Bickell trade

    So off the top of my head a few moves I think were ‘F’s – I’m sure there could be more but I don’t want you to think I’m a Stan-hater – that would be confusing

    Trade of Danault for Fleischman and Weisse
    Shaw’s acquisition for 2 seconds
    Seabrook’s contract
    UFA signings of Andrew Brunette, Fernando Pisani, Brandon Manning, Marty Turco
    1st round draft choice Mark McNeil
    Acquisition of Jeremy Morin

    I hope that scratches whatever itch it is that you have

  • August 7, 2021 at 2:02 pm
    Permalink

    oops – first sentence should be

    *Unlike you I don’t see most of Stan’s moves as black or white*

  • August 7, 2021 at 2:56 pm
    Permalink

    TAB, We did not forget about Dach,s play in the bubble,but that display that he put on at the end of last year was absolutely terrible in every facet of his game. Let’s all hope it was because he was rushed back too soon. He has alot of work to do this summer and hopefully he is well into it.

  • August 7, 2021 at 3:01 pm
    Permalink

    A MINOR note on the Danault for Fleishman & Weisse trade.

    AT THE TIME both of those guys were very productive playing together and the Hawks were in win-now mode. They didn’t fit in rapidly enough for Q and wound up in his dog-house ( and never got out).

    Still, when trade was announced it looked to be a win. It was a go-for-the-gold type trade that failed, but I liked the aggressiveness then.

    So yes, with 20/20 hindsight it was a failure, but I don’t think it was so terrible given the information at the time.

  • August 7, 2021 at 3:07 pm
    Permalink

    JR ROMAN, My opinion is that we will not see Strome in the opening night lineup. I believe that a couple of physical forwards will break into the lineup and Reichel may win Nylander,s spot. On defense Caleb Jones or Mitchell will take DeHaan,s spot. They use Shaw money and move Strome and DeHaan to have some cap flexibility. Also bury Connolly at Rockford. It’s all coming together for a fun year.

  • August 7, 2021 at 4:03 pm
    Permalink

    Uncle Bill is spit on… WAS IN WIN NOW MODE and Q crapped on them… NOT HIS FAULT… its on Bowman as usual… Q Probably OK’D the trade Beforehand as he also Told Bowman,” WE NEED SEABROOK, sign him FOR WHATEVER IT TAKES “!…
    Bowmans fault… lol

  • August 7, 2021 at 4:05 pm
    Permalink

    TW – maybe by year’s end all or most of those things happen but not to start the year IMO – patience

  • August 7, 2021 at 4:07 pm
    Permalink

    I am experiencing serous delays in updates to posts. I’m not ignoring you Wrap and ER ;-)

  • August 7, 2021 at 4:08 pm
    Permalink

    At the time of the Danault trade of course it was obvious the win now mindset but many including me didn’t think that trade was necessary to try and win the Cup

    Even at the time and under those circumstances the trade felt like an over reach – I never liked it

  • August 7, 2021 at 4:37 pm
    Permalink

    @Wrap. You are right in that not everything is binary. There are a lot of other factors and Shades of Grey as you point out.

    The A and F grades is a metaphor. Kind of like saying someone ‘runs hot and cold’ or is ‘streaky’. It’s not meant as an absolute or to be taken literally.

    I gave Stan an ‘A’ for the recent Seabrook deal. Maybe it should be a ‘C’ because he created the mess in the 1st place. Even you gave the contract extension an ‘F’. So, we net out at a ‘C’ perhaps.

    My bigger point is that Bowman is not a top tier GM. He is not an ‘A’ player at GM. The Blackhawks fans deserve better. To be an elite team, we need an elite level GM (and Coach), not C students.

  • August 7, 2021 at 6:03 pm
    Permalink

    Busy day doing yardwork … little time for internet stuff.

    Define “top tier GM” and provide empirical evidence for some over others. I liken attempting to assess a GM’s job performance to trying to describe the shape of the globule in an old lava lamp. Only people with first hand knowledge of every consideration and transaction could knit it all together to something resembling the truth of it. And that excludes every one of us posting on hockey message boards. The complexities, limitations and priorities are not always the exclusive purview of the GM and in the case of Stan Bowman that is almost assuredly the case over much of his tenure as the Hawks GM.

    An equally challenging issue when attempting to assess a GM’s job performance is the perfection perception strawman fallacy – the assessment of every move against some perceived opinion of what it should have been (perfection) and then judged to be found wanting against the perfect strawman. By extension, the overall performance is assessed using the same criteria as each individual move and “our guy” rarely, if ever, measures up. After a period of time unfair judgement becomes indelible legend impervious to true empirical data and the guy wears a scarlet letter so that even when he makes move generally thought to be good, it is followed by a “yeah but” that gets the criticism train back on the tracks.

    The only GM that in my opinion, unaided by empirical data research that rises above the rest of the herd of GMs is Lou Lamirello. All the rest are pretty much the same if they serve long enough to run the gamut of hockey team’s lifecycle.

  • August 7, 2021 at 6:06 pm
    Permalink

    JG -Stan has already won 3 Cups as GM – you can argue Tallon deserves most of the credit for 2010 but 2013 and 2015 Stan deserves the credit IMO – I won’t be engaging in any back and forth about that – I’m tired of it and if you don’t believe it I’m not going to change your mind

    Maybe he’s not the absolute best in the league but he’s good enough to win it all – he’s proven that

    Every GM has bad contracts and bad trades to their name – Stan is no different there

  • August 7, 2021 at 8:12 pm
    Permalink

    Seeing that another sexual harrassment allegation and lawsuit has been initiated this time by a former batboy for the White Sox AA team

    The Whitesox and the Birmingham Barons are both named as defendants in the lawsuit but so is the alleged perpetrator Omar Vizquel (manager at the time of the Barons) which brings up something I’ve wondered about already – why wasn’t Brad Aldrich named as a defendant in either of the 2 lawsuits against the Hawks?

  • August 7, 2021 at 10:57 pm
    Permalink

    I think Bowmans comments that Dach, Toews and Johnson being pretty good trio to build your lines around, says to me that likely the hope is they will be their 1,2&3 Centers. Even if Toews is out, although he seemingly looks ready for sure and playing at a high level is all he will allow himself. Replacing his fo ability and 2 way force is what is needed and a three quarters dimensional player like Strome who isn’t strong in either of those areas doesn’t really address his loss, last season was painfully obvious of that. Also miving his caphit should likely allow after Nylander signing happens a pretty close abilty to max out Shaws ltir at start of season as well. Maybe a lineup of:

    Cat. Dach. Kane
    Reichel. Toews. Kubalik
    Borg. T.Johnson. Nylander
    Hagel. Kurashev. Gaudette

    Nylander short leash and Kurashev there with Khaira as 4C with Gaudette right guy.
    Hagel like Shaw not a regular top 6 guy can be used all over lineup and not hurt you. The one exception probably not at center like Shaw but more in control and less of a foolish penalty liability. If Toews not playing then:

    Cat. Dach. Kane
    Reichel. T. Johnson. Kubalik
    Borgs. Gaudette. Nylander/Kurashev
    Hagel. Khaira. R. Johnson/ Entwistle/Hardman

    Borgstrom showed good fo ability at european level, should help in lefty righty combo with Gaudette and Khaira maybe add a righty fo guy with him, Johnson could really fill a void there if he can find the rest of his game, on a line with Hagel again would be an interesting line.

    Agree Conolly likely buried in minors unless he is able to outright wins a depth role. After seeing Dach healthy with a training camp in the bubble and what he delivered there, i find it bizarre that people would even consider last years no training camp, on ltir most of the year and attempted comeback while still obviously bothered by his wrist as the real thing. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Dehaan moved during season, maybe before tdl. Which most likely means Mitchell and Beaudin start year at least in Rfd. Definitely at least 1 of Subban or Delia has to be moved it seems, although Lankinen may draw the most interest too.

    McCabe. S. Jones
    Stillman. Murphy
    Dehaan. Kalynuk
    C. Jones

    MAF. Lankinen

  • August 8, 2021 at 1:28 am
    Permalink

    It baffles me that Strome put up 51 points in 57 games after being traded to the Hawks and we haven’t seen that version of Strome since. It’s not like he got old because he’s only 24 and it’s not like he slowed down because he was as slow back then. Where did that Strome go? Can the answer be as simple to explain and as complicated to fix as a crisis of confidence? That player must be in there somewhere but how does he find a way to bring it out when confidence and success are such a chicken and egg thing – what comes first?

    Man, I would hate for the Hawks to give up on him but how long do they wait and at what cost to another player who could be playing those minutes?

  • August 8, 2021 at 5:59 am
    Permalink

    @ ER – you keep asking for the very thing you are unwilling to provide, empirical evidence. I pointed out to you more than once that in rankings by different hockey sites Bowman is at the very bottom and also that he has never won or even been a finalist for the Jim Gregory Award for GM of the Year. Outside of Stan’s Fans, Bowman is a bottom dweller.

    I do enjoy watching Stan’s Fans defending him. It’s like watching Jim Acosta and Anderson Cooper defending Joe Biden. Very entertaining.

  • August 8, 2021 at 7:35 am
    Permalink

    Clarification: I am not saying that rankings by hockey scribes and/or GM of the Year voting is “empirical evidence”.

    But, I did do some research (this Google thing is going to catch on one day) to see how others in the hockey world think of Stan Bowman. I could not find anything to change my opinion of him.

  • August 8, 2021 at 7:54 am
    Permalink

    @Hammer – could it be that those who thought DeBrincat’s success came from riding Strome’s coattails had it backwards? I seem to recall Strome starting off fairly well when he was paired with DeBrincat. Just a theory.

  • August 8, 2021 at 8:25 am
    Permalink

    Strome when he first came also benefited from a red hot PP1 which he was on

  • August 8, 2021 at 8:35 am
    Permalink

    JG – hockey scribes etc all thought Stan (first name again) was one of the best GMs when CHI was in it’s hey day just like everyone now thinks Julien Brisebois is best and before that Doug Armstrong in STL. was the best and before that Jim Rutherford and don’t forget all the praise heaped on Dean Lombardi and remember Ray Shero he was the best when PIT first won and Ken Holland was the best during the Red Wing Cup years

    Even you can see the pattern I hope – if you win you’re the best – that’s about as deep as these type of polls go

  • August 8, 2021 at 8:49 am
    Permalink

    WIJG, good thing you caught yourself on ascribing hockey scribes as purveyors of empirical evidence, but no matter because. as I opined, no one outside the inner sanctum of the Hawks management team CAN know every jot and tittle of decisions made, and that isn’t only for the Hawks General Management. it is thus across the fruited plain of the NHL.

    Again you have not truly grasped my position on this topic. Whereas you ascribe my scribbling as defense of Bowman the Younger (aka Stan), you’ve miss the point I’ve tried, apparently unsuccessfully, to make numerous times which is not a defense but rather a condemnation of the lazy and shallow evaluation process all the so called experts and opinion makers rely on.

    As your example of high profile reporters “making excuses” indicates, you’re well aware that in this day and age “truth” is what “they” say it is and once an untruth reaches critical mass it becomes truth. It is this lazy ignorance that I see driving the opinion of what I have called “the mob” that I rail against.

    Couple that flawed process of assessment with the natural myopic focus of one’s own affairs and we arrive at the injudicious “truth” we staple onto the target of such an assessment, including the Hawks’ GM and believed as truth by the “experts” and the masses.

    I have no allegiance to Stan Bowman – my allegiance is to the Hawks. The GM is but a temporary caretaker and I would have no issue with Stan being replaced. I think “Stan” is an average GM as are the majority of NHL GM’s – some good decisions, some not so good. Comme ci comme ca and the world goes round.

  • August 8, 2021 at 8:58 am
    Permalink

    Strome came over and was reunited with Debrincat and had Kane on ither wing, was having fun, with no pressure on the rest of his game that 1st year. He could still be productive but not likely at that level, agree Wijg that Debrincat had more to do with Strome’s success in juniors and Raddysh’s too who has yet to make an Nhl roster than his linemates did in his success as Nhl careers seem to say. My thing with Strome is his lack of speed and 2way play make him a liability at C, he can’t seem to fit on the wing, his inability to take advantage of his size, defer to the open ice in the corner, rather than hang in sometimes not all in the slot area when it gets crowded. His puck battling skills are pretty much non existant. Yes he has improved a bit with his stick play but still comes up short if the mark to me.

  • August 8, 2021 at 9:01 am
    Permalink

    My issue with Strome is that he has glaring weaknesses that he appears to not spend any time trying to improve. His skating has not gotten better, his strength has not gotten better and his overall defensive awareness continues to be weak. His pal Dcat is the opposite. He worked very hard on his weaknesses and has taken his play to another level. Strome has excellent hands and offensive skills (when he has the puck) but that is not enough for a top 9 center in the league. His defensive issues can be hidden much better at wing, especially if he got stronger, but when given a chance he seemed to be unhappy with the change. His $3m cap hit can be put to much better use. Time to take a mid-round draft pick and move on.

  • August 8, 2021 at 9:13 am
    Permalink

    Plain and simple the gm of the teams going to the Cup are the best gns at that time. Tell me you rather have Wilson from SJ or Poile from Nash as gm your crazy. Any long standing gm without a Cup or several attempts for the Cup is not a gm that I want. Stan Bowman (used both names so youz wouldn’t know what side of the fence I’m on) is who we have and in his tenure it shows 3 Cups. Eventually you get hired to get fired. When that time is coming who knows.

    If I had to look for a new gm I do like to look at former players. That does not always work but is my preference. Some of and probably most of the best gms were not former NHL players but probably played the game. Would like to see Lawton give it another try at gm.

  • August 8, 2021 at 9:36 am
    Permalink

    @John Galt: Yes and strangely Strome was never put back with the Cat for some reason, I’m sure Kid Coach had some analytical stat for that but for whatever reason it didn’t happen. As far as GM rankings out of all of the publications I’ve seen, the highest I’ve ever seen StanBo ranked in the last 3 years was 27th. But to be fair these rankings as from his peers and not from fans that still want to hang on to past results.

  • August 8, 2021 at 9:44 am
    Permalink

    I heard that Strome is training hard with a personal trainer is name Omer Simpson
    Strome should be able to play with any partner not just with DCat .he is a big boy.

  • August 8, 2021 at 11:01 am
    Permalink

    Strome,s downfall sped up when Debrincat transformed into a hard skating 2 way player last year. Strome had no chance to keep up with him and Kane as he was always very slowly trailing the play. No place on this team for him especially with Gaudette healthy.

  • August 8, 2021 at 11:06 am
    Permalink

    I haven’t officially terminated in my Strome Fan Club membership yet but it’s become increasingly more difficult to find a spot for him in the lineup. The locks for the lineup are Toews, Kane, DCat, Dach, Kubalik, Johnson, and Hagel – that’s 7 of the 12 starting positions. Kurashev should be in the lineup unless they need a waiver exempt player to send to Rockford. After a year or rehab Nylander should be in the lineup until he proves he shouldn’t. Borgstrom was the key piece in the trade with Florida so I have to think he will be in the starting 12. That makes 10 of the 12 starters. The last 2 spots will be filled from among the following NHL roster players: Gaudette, Carpenter, Connolly, Khaira and Strome; and from several prospects from the Rockford roster: Reichel, Hardman, Entwistle and maybe one or two others. Of that group, I would take Gaudette and any of the 3 Rockford guys, if they’re ready, ahead of Strome.

    Another strike against Strome’s inclusion into the lineup is he is not a plug & play player – his limitations make him unfit for a defensive/grinder role and he has not shown the ability to play on the wing. Therefore he is not competing for one of the 12 forward spots, per se, he is competing for one of the (3) top-9 center spots with his competition being Toews, Dach, Johnson, Kurashev, Gaudette, and Borgstrom with the first three in that list demonstrably a better fit than Strome and the last 3 with more promise than the pigeonholed Strome.

    I liked the 51 points in 57 games Strome – too bad he’s apparently not able to be that guy anymore.

  • August 8, 2021 at 11:40 am
    Permalink

    One caveat in the dump-Strome debate: No one on this site knows what Strome has been doing for the last few months. If there has been real improvement in skating and motivation to play good defense, it will come out in camp. That’s when to make a decision on his future, when better information is available. 51 in 57 should earn the chance to prove it in camp.

  • August 8, 2021 at 11:46 am
    Permalink

    Wholeheartedly agree Uncle Bill.

  • August 8, 2021 at 12:00 pm
    Permalink

    Uncle – agree with the notion that they’ll wait and see what Strome has in training camp and maybe into the season or most likely to the TDL before trading him if they do

    It’s definitely Strome’s last stand – if battling to survive on the Hawks roster doesn’t motivate him to increase his compete level and improve his skating I don’t think anything will

  • August 8, 2021 at 12:16 pm
    Permalink

    Uncle Bill i don’t know what Strome is doing this summer. What I do know is he was given a nice contract and the opportunity he should’ve dreamed about last season and fell flat. Why would you expect he will come out rejuvenated next season if that didn’t motivate him, I just don’t see how he fits in their plans any more after last season. I am not wishing him ill will, just think he has run his course with Blackhawks and time for a change for him.

  • August 8, 2021 at 12:33 pm
    Permalink

    Now that Both Saad & Keith are gone , who cost us about )11-12m per year combined and were both turn over machines with some skill…Icings and odd man rushes against should now be way down… Lets see how the “new Hawks” play AS A UNIT…. Maybe now ALL hawk players will play coll’s system thus we can assesss if he really is a prob…
    GO HAWKS

  • August 8, 2021 at 12:51 pm
    Permalink

    There is a very fine line between the pro athletes that have a successful career (in any sport) and the thousands of others that have all the physical assets but do not.

    It’s what is between their ears – their attitude, work ethic, desire, focus, etc… – that makes the difference.

    I know nothing about Strome’s or Nylander’s intangible qualities. I can see they have the physical assets to be successful.

    Can they change? I don’t know. I can’t think of very many players that have.

    Yet, there are many who were drafted in the 1st Round (by all teams) and never had much of a career. By contrast, there are many players who were late round draft choices that prospered.

    We will find out soon enough if these guys are really washouts or can be worthwhile investments.

  • August 8, 2021 at 1:41 pm
    Permalink

    WIJG – agree. This coming season is a good time to find out and make final decision on both Strome and Nylander. Realistically the Hawks aren’t legit Cup contenders, even if they do make the playoffs, so this season can be looked at similarly to last season in terms of sorting through players to find the ones who can contribute to a Cup contending team. In that respect it’s not only Strome and Nylander, but also new guys like Gaudette, Borgstrom, (maybe) Reichel and a few other forwards to go along with d-men Kalynuk, C.Jones, Stillman and possibly others.

    I still see the Hawks in rebuild mode, albeit a different phase. I think the additions of MAF and Johnson allow for better slotting and more consistent play to put the young players in better position to play their best. Making the playoffs is more of an objective than last season but that is part of the rebuilding process too.

  • August 8, 2021 at 1:49 pm
    Permalink

    Wrap, Strome was told he had to drastically improve his skating and physicality when the Coyotes drafted him and he did not. Now that he has his contract and ran his mouth about playing time at his end of the season interview,I can see no scenario where he is on this team opening night. Stan is finally transforming this team by cutting out its soft and small underbelly. I am incredibly happy to see them move on from Suter,Kamph,and Zadorov. Strome and Dehaan next to go soon.

  • August 8, 2021 at 2:25 pm
    Permalink

    TW – you may be right but I can also see both Strome and DeHaan surviving until TDL and even if Strome is not regularly in the line up

    By next year I would not expect Strome to be on the Hawks – he’s only got 1 year left on his deal making him a good trade candidate at the deadline

  • August 8, 2021 at 3:33 pm
    Permalink

    All this talking about Strome got me thinking … Boston lost David Krejci who has similar attributes as Strome – playing on the PP and a 2nd line center behind Bergeron. Maybe Boston would be interested in a trade for Strome with a player like Trent Frederic. Boston gets their playmaking PP specialist and the Hawks get a hard nosed player ideal as a 4th line physical guy. Salary retention and draft picks exchange to make it all nice for both teams. Pipe dream or possibility?

  • August 8, 2021 at 3:42 pm
    Permalink

    Uncle, I see the Dan auto trade as the worst by far since 2008 I do though understand and was ok with it because I think Bowman did it because in 14 he didn’t add and we still should have won/offsides over cross bar two penalty’s when in zone before good/bad bounces.

    So where I see Bowman doin that trade was because he didn’t in 14 so you have to add in 16 which should have been for four in a row.

    For the trade itself was the worst by far for young wave Teravainen was there to people didn’t want soft weak so until he got to established enough people were complaining now look at him.

  • August 8, 2021 at 4:01 pm
    Permalink

    In terms of center s who can play the 2nd line well think of Hands he speaks slow it’s was his face offs and Defensive FW two way play that made so valuable not points. It was a time when the league allowed slower players play it wasn’t long that 10 7 32 26 others were too slow because whole league got faster.

    Now those players wouldn’t be as good from 35-40 but then they could be. So the skate fast or fast enough thing is a thing and basically a requirement.

  • August 8, 2021 at 4:03 pm
    Permalink

    Man ohh my shit min do I want to see Hoss doing something gm and Bowman can do his thing in higher spot.

  • August 8, 2021 at 10:11 pm
    Permalink

    I didn’t know much about McCabe and I wanted to know what we can expect from him. What I was fairly certain about was he is a defensive d-man but I wasn’t sure if that was because he was really good in the d-zone or is he thought of that way because he’s got little to no offensive, so more or less by default he’s a defensive d-man. I’m also aware he has decent size and plays a physical game. Other than that I really don’t know much about his game and where he would best fit in the Hawks lineup.

    The first thing I noticed was he misses quite a few games with injuries. Going back to the 2017/18 season, he’s played only 191 of a possible 290 games. The games played for the last 4 seasons: 53/82, 59/82, 66/70, 13/56. Obviously that’s a concern and maybe keeping deHaan is worth it to be able to get 82 games combined from them.

    But what do we get when he’s healthy and playing. His Hits/60 and Blks/60 are both a little less than are Connor Murphy’s (21.65 to 25.44) and (17.90 to 23.61). His GvA/60 and TkA/60 numbers are both better than Murphy’s (5.20 to 8.57) and (4.25 to 2.90).

    In summary, it seems when McCabe is able to play he is pretty comparable to Murphy with a tad less offense. He’s also pretty comparable to deHaan in hits/blocks/GvAs/TkAs, so maybe the hope should be the Hawks get enough from the three of them as a group to compensate for injury days one of them can’t play.

  • August 8, 2021 at 11:42 pm
    Permalink

    Ebony that would be a great trade. If we only retain 1mil would be super.

  • August 9, 2021 at 12:07 am
    Permalink

    Lots of rose-colored glasses being worn around here.

    Let’s start with a realistic post:
    HAMMER TIME August 8, 2021 at 9:36 am
    “As far as GM rankings out of all of the publications I’ve seen, the highest I’ve ever seen StanBo ranked in the last 3 years was 27th.”

    Here is what I posted under the MAF thread on August 6, 2021 at 11:52 am: “Teams don’t stay viable for long when they keep coughing up high picks, as Bowman has done. The Hawks now have one of the weaker systems in the NHL.”

    To confirm that the Hawks have one of the weaker systems, Dobber Hockey ranks the Blackhawks prospect pool 28th after the latest draft. Kraken ranking should be ignored because they have had just one draft. So think of the Hawks being ranked 28 out of 31:

    7-31-2021
    “The Blackhawks made some strange selections at the 2021 NHL Draft, which does not bode well for their lackluster prospect pool; they still have Nicolas Beaudin in their system, but the young defenseman is all but guaranteed a full-time spot next year. Lukas Reichel could be a very good NHL player one day, and they have goaltender Drew Commesso working on improving his game in the NCAA, but their prospect pool is looking more and more like a puddle. Selecting Nolan Allan in this year’s first round is definitely a head-scratcher, and they didn’t make up for it with their later picks, either.”

    “Top-three prospects: Nicolas Beaudin, Lukas Reichel, Drew Commesso”

    Know what team shot up the board with the 9th ranked system? Columbus. I’ll bet more champagne flowed in the CBJ organization after the Jones trade than on New Year’s Eve.

    And MIN is now ranked 4th after nabbing Wallstedt. As they say, you build from the net out. Top systems like the Wild will keep the Blackhawks out in the wild-erness for years to come.

    This calls for another promotion for StanBo! What do you say, Rocky?

  • August 9, 2021 at 7:00 am
    Permalink

    @ORIGINAL6HAWKEY – Awesome post!

    I am looking forward to the hysterical reactions from Stan’s Fans.

  • August 9, 2021 at 7:32 am
    Permalink

    @ORIGINAL6HAWKEY-Great post, the sad part is StanBo had his choice of both highly ranked goalies: Wallstedt and Cossa were both there for the taking but no, the Imperial Wizard of Hockey felt that the goalie situation was fine and we needed another D Man. Add to the fact that the Blackhawks have just gone under the fastest rebuild in the history of sports according to what StanBo tells the faithful here(“We’re retooling and getting a fresh perspective, we are now rebuilding, now we’re retooling again”) there is no doubt that the faithful here thinks that we are contenders once again for the Cup although many hockey experts question whether these moves will even get the team into playoffs let alone contend with the elite. This team is still based on a lot of hopes, ifs and maybe’s but I may have to get a pair of those “rose colored glasses” because I’m still having a hard time seeing what other people are seeing around here with this fast rebuild. Yes this team on paper has improved but band aids are not usually associated with “rebuilds”.

  • August 9, 2021 at 7:39 am
    Permalink

    Orig6 – that’s right I forgot the name of the game is Who’s Got the Best Prospect Pool? – an award decided by Corey Pronman

    So congrats to MIN or whoever else NJ perhaps – no need to play games on the ice – we already know who’s

    What does MIN need with Stanley Cups now that they’re serious contenders for Who’s Got The Best Prospect Pool?

    CHI’s 3 recent Cups pale in comparison

  • August 9, 2021 at 7:45 am
    Permalink

    (***Although I don’t think it will happen soon)

    I’m actually looking forward to Stan taking a well deserved break from being the GM. Mistakes yes but helped with three Cups. That is a fact. Then we can start to focus on what matters the coaches/players and how well they play and work within the system used. They (especially the GM) have given the coach a big leash so it’s time to see if these players and this coach can co-exist and thrive. The coach and GM are tied at the hip going forward.
    Very interested in how they do this year! Will the pivot be fruitful?

  • August 9, 2021 at 7:48 am
    Permalink

    Some like to live in the past.

    Some like to dream of the future.

    Some are realists.

  • August 9, 2021 at 7:50 am
    Permalink

    JG – you just finished a convo with me where you reluctantly praised Stan (first name) and gave him an A for his off season moves then you do an about face and praise Original’s post ripping Stans’ (first name) moves

    You’ll have to explain that to your new bestie Original 6 how those two positions are possible

    Pick a lane my friend – we’re getting a good look at how seriously we should take your opinions

  • August 9, 2021 at 8:13 am
    Permalink

    “What does MIN need with Stanley Cups now that they’re serious contenders for who’s got the best prospect pool?? Chi’s 3 recent Cups pale in comparison”

    You mean the last Cup we won SEVEN SEASONS ago?? That recent ago?? That ship has sailed into the history books with Q getting blamed for not getting the team back into the playoffs. Guess he hasn’t forgotten how to coach if you give him some talent to work with seeing he took a team with some Hawk rejects and went toe to toe with Tampa just this last year.

  • August 9, 2021 at 8:19 am
    Permalink

    @Wrap – I have been very clear and consistent:

    1. Stan is a bottom dweller GM. I have cited outside opinions/rankings and other reasons why I believe this. O6H provides addition support for that position. Great post.

    2. I give Stan credit where credit is due. Although, his successes are either offset by a failure or were necessitated by a past failure of his own making. I am not Stan Fan, but can be objective.

    3. I believe the Blackhawks could and should do better if they want to win another Cup. I don’t live in the past.

    As I clearly stated in an earlier post, giving Stan credit for a good move does not mean I am applauding him for pulling the car out of the ditches he drove into.

    I am sorry, but not surprised, you are so confused.

  • August 9, 2021 at 8:49 am
    Permalink

    … and we have officially entered the dog days of summer hockey blogging. That period of time between the free agent frenzy and opening of training camp. That time when righteous opinion is raised to absolute dogma and heretics are dragged out into the square for public ridicule. The keepers of enlightened thought will proclaim what is and what is not reality – thus sayeth them.

    Ahh, good times.

  • August 9, 2021 at 9:10 am
    Permalink

    JG – where am I confused?

    You praised S Jones trade in a previous post even though there were draft picks included and then you pump up Original for demeaning Stan (first name) for giving up the possibility of drafting Wallstaedt or Cossa and allowing CBJ to party like it’s New Years Eve for getting draft choices off the Hawks

    Which is it? Do you like the Seth Jones trade or not? It seems you jump on any opportunity to pretend that you own those who think Stan is capable of good moves at the considerable expense of your own integrity

    I guess that easier than admitting to others in the Stan hating fan club that he made a good trade getting Seth Jones

  • August 9, 2021 at 9:28 am
    Permalink

    Hammer – I consider 3 Cups in the last 11 years recent enough

    There is a cost that comes with that kind of success in a hard cap league – I guess you feel that the Hawks should rebuilt and won another Cup by now like their main rival from those years and 2 times Cup winner LA did – oops!

  • August 9, 2021 at 9:33 am
    Permalink

    I got no problem with the S Jones trade. My issue is why did StanBo go right back into cap purgatory with his contract and how will StanBo deal with the purgatory seeing next year you have the following players needing new contracts: Kubalik, Dach, Kurashev Murphy, Kalynuk plus our 2 current goalies??? I know: StanBo’s a genius who will wave his hand(if he’s still here) and magically those problems will disappear. He’s the 27th ranked GM by his peers for a reason. There is a reason why other teams laugh at us when we play them. Teams don’t respect us.

  • August 9, 2021 at 9:47 am
    Permalink

    @ Wrap: Funny you mention LA. They replaced their GM and have a good up and coming farm system. We didn’t and don’t have a good up and coming farm system. Plus I only care about our division and our conference in where we still don’t stack up against them.

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:06 am
    Permalink

    @Wrap – now I am confused.

    When/Where did I say this?: “You praised S Jones trade in a previous post even though there were draft picks included and then you pump up Original for demeaning Stan (first name) for giving up the possibility of drafting Wallstaedt or Cossa and allowing CBJ to party like it’s New Years Eve for getting draft choices off the Hawks”

    All I recall saying is that I like the Seth Jones trade but not the contract.

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:08 am
    Permalink

    Hammer – there are different paths to the top and I’m not talking about Who’s Got The Best Prospect Pool

    LA chose one way the Hawks another – we’ll see how it all shakes out

    It’s clear you feel you already know how it will all shake out – I’ll wait for all the evidence to be in

    If you do some research you’ll find that the Hawks cap situation is not that dire but you be you

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:24 am
    Permalink

    Who is John Galt? “And, I give him credit for many of the moves he made over the last few weeks (even though I don’t like 8 year contracts for any player by any GM, whether its Seth Jones, Darnell Nurse or anyone else). ”

    Based on your above quote you like the Jones trade – I get you don’t like the term but you didn’t say “Awesome post” to Original6 because of the term

    Here’s part of Originals post that you gushed over without differentiating that you it was really the term you didn’t like but you were good with the cost in player/draft picks of acquiring Jones

    Original6Hawkey “Know what team shot up the board with the 9th ranked system? Columbus. I’ll bet more champagne flowed in the CBJ organization after the Jones trade than on New Year’s Eve.”

    If you liked the Jones trade you’re OK with the draft picks given up but if you think Original6 is “awesome” for his post then you agree that CBJ exacted a too high price for Jones from Stan (first name)

    You’re flip flopping like a fish out of water just to get in a cheap shot at those you perceive to be Stan (first name) lovers hoping no one will notice

    You need a better stratagy

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:38 am
    Permalink

    @Wrap – I just liked O6H’s post.

    I like it even more now that it set off the hysteria I expected.

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:40 am
    Permalink

    @Wrap: I profess to not having a master’s degree in Cap Mixology. All I did was look up how much space we got and look at who we have to pay for next year. So how does StanBo pay for all the names I listed who’s contracts are due for next year while keeping their own players seeing we’re not in a rebuild situation now and our farm system is poor??? Seems like a logical question that nobody wants to tackle now but they put full confidence on StanBo seeing the cap situation isn’t as dire as some people think but when I look at our cap for next year I see $27 million available for next year. For Kubalik, Dach, Kurashev, Murphy, Kalynuk, C Jones and 2 goalies. Am I seeing something wrong or do I have to purchase some rose colored glasses??

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:48 am
    Permalink

    Hammer – there’s a good article in the Athletic by I think Scott Powers that outlines the Hawks cap situation for the next 5 years – no one is saying it’s won’t be a bit tight but it is not cap hell

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:49 am
    Permalink

    JG – your main reason for posting seems to be finding hilarity in other responses

    So mature

    Later

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:49 am
    Permalink

    “I’ll bet more champagne flowed in the CBJ organization after the Jones trade than on New Year’s Eve.” – now that’s funny. Did even more champagne flow after that perpetually mediocre team was forced to sign Werenski for 6 x $9.5 as an RFA to make sure they didn’t lose another top player.

  • August 9, 2021 at 10:59 am
    Permalink

    @Wrap: I will look for that article and thanks for the info.

  • August 9, 2021 at 1:21 pm
    Permalink

    Reading some post lately .ZZZZzzzzzzz

  • August 9, 2021 at 1:44 pm
    Permalink

    This has nothing to do with Bowman when I say only ANA and CHI in 2012? Had top 10 farms among all the top 10 teams in league.

    Once some of those prospects are on 23man/if that’s the line then your pool goes from 9th to 19th area. It usually takes a team that sucks for enough yrs or trades away lots of good players like CLB did after they loaded up at tradeline and beat TB to load pool other ways to.

    Point is just an addition thoughts if we put 77 others back to prospect pool and have what those teams have/how many are on the 23 man to the same amount were near top 10 and vice versa. Also we trade a top pair D guy and get a good prospect like BoQ/other are pool is higher vice versa. Main points is we already have some of the good prospects in those top 10 farms donot yet/not as many and they donot have as many good established players as well.

    Another thing is I include euro if as we get as prospects that are further developed though as prospects/then they are on 23 man so to me those players count for farms rankings because they are good players coming in or soon.

    Every yr pretty much we one good player from euro and that counts for drafted prospects in my books. Then how many from each draft. Sine they are further along I say they are from a draft 2/3 yrs before when they ufa from euro.

    Others want Bowman out I want coaches team system that’s thrives with a two way game and has plenty of hardnosers speed good skating.

    We might not draft a goalie this decade that’s top 10 in league we might get goalies from ufa/other that’s fine does it matter where the goalie came from just that’s he’s top 10 in league so we can win.

    Same shit different island.
    Same Cup different 23man blueprints.

  • August 9, 2021 at 2:27 pm
    Permalink

    Do we get anything for having a great farm system?

  • August 9, 2021 at 3:20 pm
    Permalink

    Our farm system is ranked in the lower third of the league.

  • August 9, 2021 at 4:44 pm
    Permalink

    “Woof woof “, say the Walldogs. Barking out of both sides of their mouths?

    Sometimes it’s hard to remember which Walldog you are.

  • August 9, 2021 at 4:46 pm
    Permalink

    Best of luck to you Troy Murray. Stay strong…

  • August 9, 2021 at 5:08 pm
    Permalink

    @WRAPAROUND
    “There is a cost that comes with that kind of success in a hard cap league – I guess you feel that the Hawks should rebuilt and won another Cup by now like their main rival from those years and 2 times Cup winner LA did – oops!”

    Blackhawks last Cup: 2015
    Blackhawks prospect pool ranking: 28

    Kings last Cup: 2014
    Kings prospect pool ranking: 1

    Wrap, you were joking. Right?

  • August 9, 2021 at 6:38 pm
    Permalink

    Orig6 – obviously it’s better to have what others consider better prospects but let’s not forget that the Hawks won 3 Cups to LAs 2 and just because their prospects are highly ranked doesn’t mean they’re going to win anytime soon if ever with these current prospects

    As I said before we’ll see how it all shakes out – you’re acting as though LA has already won another Cup

    I haven’t seen a team full of prospects win the Cup ever – at some point LA will trade some of those prospects for a player or two like Seth Jones and I’ll be looking for you to come on here and say what a bad move that was

  • August 9, 2021 at 7:16 pm
    Permalink

    A quick google search shows that the #1 ranked farm system in 2015 was EDM and #2 was BUF

    In 2016 the #1 ranked prospect pool was TOR and #2 was ARZ

    You’d think that would be enough time for any of those teams to have success with all their prospects but none of those four teams have won anything significant except maybe a playoff round despite having the highest. ranked prospect pool 5 and 6 years ago …just saying

  • August 10, 2021 at 12:39 am
    Permalink

    I can’t think of many GMs who felt a small, Euro-style team would be successful in the NHL.

    Further, most of Stan’s trades have him on the losing end. I’ll give him Kubalik for a 5th rounder and he did get Vermette for the 2015 run. In the end, nothing really stands out. Same with his drafts.

    Net net from both Saad and Panarin is a 3rd round pick. That alone should get some GMs fired.

    I feel Stan is just like Ryan Pace. Gives away the wrong player and gambles too much with his first round picks or trades them away.

  • August 10, 2021 at 12:57 am
    Permalink

    If we are holding ourselves up to the latest endeavors of the Wild and Bluejackets,I will take the Hawks path. The Wild just summarily dumped both Suter and Parise,so much for those monster signings. And they did it with such a lack of class that I don’t think Minnesota will be a hot destination. They are having difficulty in signing their Russian rookie sensation and made it known that they were attempting to get rid of Matt Dumba. Everyone who spends more than a few months in Columbus wants out of there,so much so that they had to preemptively overpay Werenski by about 3.5 Million a year on a long term deal. I like Zach but he is not a #1. Laine immediately wanted out of there. Du Bois escaped quickly. Time will tell but I am going to wear my Hawk rose colored glasses for this season to start out with and maybe even beyond that.

  • August 10, 2021 at 1:01 am
    Permalink

    Wrap, since you compared LA with the Hawks as our main rival during the Cup winning years, stating that the hard cap makes it hard to quickly rebuild, I compared the prospect rankings for the two teams. Somehow one team now has the top ranked system with a bright future while, unfortunately, the other has a badly depleted system with little chance of becoming a contender in the foreseeable future.

    Of course at some point LA will trade some prospects for high-quality veterans because a deep system gives you options. And the Blackhawks?

  • August 10, 2021 at 1:12 am
    Permalink

    Trip Forever, I am certainly not a Stan fan but in fairness, in addition to a great trade for Kubalik and initially signing Panarin, you left two monster moves:

    1. HOSSA signing!!! Best FA signing in franchise history.
    2. Not matching SJ offer sheet for Niemi. We’ll take Crawford any day.

  • August 10, 2021 at 6:58 am
    Permalink

    On 1 July 2009, Hossa signed a 12-year contract with the Chicago Blackhawks worth $62.8 million

    On July 14, 2009, Bowman replaced Dale Tallon to become the ninth general manager in the Blackhawks’ history.

  • August 10, 2021 at 7:32 am
    Permalink

    Orig – well the Hawks just traded Boquist and some draft choices for Seth Jones – that’s the type of move LA will yet have to make

    What did LA do?

    Despite their prospects they gave a good 3C Phil Danault $5.5 per

    I’m sure Bowman would have been raked over the coals for making that signing

    Again good for LA for building up their prospects – let’s see if it leads anywhere or if they spin their wheels like TOR and EDM who had generational talents amongst their prospects when they were rated #1 farm systems 5 and 6 years ago

  • August 10, 2021 at 7:59 am
    Permalink

    And Montreal, Colorado and Carolinas systems where in the top 10. Those teams are good and will continue to be.

    I found this site called Google and it said that Montreal was also in the Cup final.

  • August 10, 2021 at 8:04 am
    Permalink

    There is a lot of interesting brain research coming out in last 3 or 4 years about how possible it is to shift someone’s position when they have a strong inclination one way or another.
    Trying to get someone to see your thoughts/position might be like hitting your head on the wall repeatedly. Things like belief perseverance, confirmation bias and avoidance of complexity, work with everything from hockey talk to positions around co-vid.
    At least 20 % of the population has no ability, as in none– to shift at all even when presented with undeniable facts. Factors such as age, education level and brain injury come into play. It’s much more than being stubborn. It’s our amazing brain.

    It’s also partly why sides are taking so early on in the process. Your ability to see and appreciate different perspectives is a true sign of intelligence.

  • August 10, 2021 at 8:10 am
    Permalink

    Noonan – good point!

  • August 10, 2021 at 8:37 am
    Permalink

    For the purposes of keeping the discussion on track it seems the main bone of contention for some is the price paid both in players/draft capital for Seth Jones because in some people’s minds that is bailing on the rebuild and the Hawks should be trying to have the best prospect pool possible like LA or maybe MIN or CBJ

    I’m on the side that says acquiring Seth Jones was a good move despite the price

    The only young player given up for Jones was Boquist who incidentally went in the same draft as LA’s Rasmus Kupari who counts towards LA’s #1 proapect pool (having played just 7 NHL games) while Boquist is already playing in the NHL so no longer counts towards anyone’s prospect pool

    Likewise LA’s Alex Turcotte who has zero NHL games counts in LA’s prospect pool – he went in the same draft as Kirby Dach who is entering his third NHL year

    So the Hawks have turned Boquist into Seth Jones and have Kirby Dach rather than Alex Turcotte – just for some perspective

    Plus the Hawks still have Mitchell, Beaudin, Reichel, Kurashev, Hagel, Lankinen, Barrat, Hardman, Entwistle, Nylander, Kalynuk et. al.

    As I’ve said before I don’t agree with all of Bowman’s moves but this summer he’s done a great job IMO

  • August 10, 2021 at 9:09 am
    Permalink

    Hammer
    Our farm team. ::: was. ::: ranked in the lower in the lower
    Now that we know Players like Beaudin ,Mitchell , Regula, probably Hardman and many other kids who grew up in Rockford last year will play in AHL next season
    Many kids played a few games with the Hawks last year and will start in AHL this year .another group coming from Junior or Europe will start also.
    I think we will have a top 8-10 team in AHL this year
    Maybe a top 5 iff they get good goalie from Junior or Europe.
    Love my New Hogs team .

  • August 10, 2021 at 10:43 am
    Permalink

    Noonan, a very interesting topic and one I’ve read quite a lot about over the years. I find the workings of our human body fascinating and the more I read the more fascinated I become. There was a series on a website I don’t recall the name of at the present that explained how it all works together down to the cellular level, including the brain and neural network. There’s still much not entirely understood on the way the brain organizes input from the various senses of the body but the process can and does get manipulated in various ways and once those manipulations have been applied it actually changes the neural pathways making it near impossible for disparate data to be connected. What we used to call brainwashing in a cloak and dagger science fiction sense is a lot more true and possible than most people probably know, and it usually isn’t some nefarious agent causing the effect, most times it’s things like environment and natural influences.

  • August 10, 2021 at 3:06 pm
    Permalink

    It will be interesting to compare Jones and Nurse over the next few years. Oilers are more offense minded but I view the teams as pretty even…… particularly if Tired is back and plays well

  • August 11, 2021 at 9:23 am
    Permalink

    In the Jones trade Bowman traded away Boqvist who like him or not was one of Chicago’s top prospects
    The two first round picks that Bowman traded for Jones would have also been Chicago’s top two or three prospects with Reichel also being one of the top three prospects.
    Pretty much all of Chicago’s other prospects will be candidates for fourth line duties.

    Some other teams prospects have played less NHL games than Dach or Boqvist doesn’t really mean anything….Lots of teams like to develop their top prospects in the minors Bowman seems to like to rush his top prospects to the nhl.

    Any non bias fan should be able to realize Chicago’s farm system is not good. Just like anyone using common sense should be able to realize having a strong farm system is important.
    Strong prospects pool will eventually turn into team depth which will also lead to the ability to trade prospects for other assets.
    To hear that Bowman has no concern about not having his first round pick for next season does not sound like a good thing to me.

    It’s like Bowman is pushing his chips and saying I am all in. It’s one thing to go all in if you are actually a Stanley Cup contender. Which Chicago is not.
    Is Bowmans goal to trade every first round pick that Chicago drafts? try save his job? make the playoffs? win the cup?
    Personally I believe Stan has no plan!

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published.