Blackhawks Trade Robin Lehner To Vegas
The Chicago Blackhawks have reportedly traded goaltender Robin Lehner to the Vegas Golden Knights for goaltender Malcolm Subban, a second round pick and defenseman Slava Demin.
Demin, who turns 20 on April 4, was a fourth round pick (99th overall) in the 2018 NHL Draft. He is currently playing for the University of Denver – with Blackhawks prospect Ian Mitchell. He’s a left-handed defenseman listed at 6-2 and 190 pounds.
The deal ended up being a three-team deal in which Toronto ate some of Lehner’s salary.
As I understand it, CHI retained 50 per cent of Lehner’s salary/cap hit. TOR retained 44 per cent and VGK carries the remaining 6 per cent. TOR gets a 5th rd pick for taking on a $1.1M cap hit or slightly less than $200K in actual expense. https://t.co/JKYm6qG69v
— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) February 24, 2020
So, in review, the Blackhawks retained half of Lehner’s contract, got a third team involved to eat even more of his salary, and the best they could do is a second round pick, a backup goaltender and a project defenseman?
This was an enormous miss by the Blackhawks front office. They tried to play the market and failed. Miserably.
Hours before getting traded, Lehner was enjoying an offday in St. Louis.
Nice calm day in St. Louis. Anything special going on today on Twitter? ??
— Robin Lehner (@RobinLehner) February 24, 2020
Lehner thanked Chicago for his time with the Blackhawks.
Really exited to join Vegas. Going to be a ride. Can’t wait to get there but please no drums at the airport I’m shy…
— Robin Lehner (@RobinLehner) February 24, 2020
A second round pick and a prospect, WTF!
Pack your bags Robin…..off to Sin City. Hope you stay away from the evils of that town. Best of Luck to you !!
Nice knowing you STAN !! SMH…….
The Knights back-up gave up 5 to the mighty Ducks last night and Fleury hasn’t looked like a world beater either so this makes a lot of sense. Can’t believe Carolina wasn’t all over Lehner – it looks like they will go with two AHL players and a Zamboni driver until Mrazek returns. I thought they had a team that could go deep and they had an extra first rounder to use in a deal. If I was a Hurricanes fan I would be pissed – hope they miss the playoffs.
How does Bowman still have a job?
Wow. Stan got hosed again. A 2nd and a prospect, for one of the best goalies in the NHL? He probably waited too long to pull the trigger as he has in the past and then felt like he had to do it and settled for much less. I’m sure there’s more background to this, but on the surface, it sucks.
Canes traded their first to NYR for Brady Skjei. Given their need for a goalie and that they traded for 2 defenseman I don’t know why we couldn’t have done a deal for that pick.
Man does Stain Blowman suck. Not even close to what we should have gotten for Lehner. Same with the Gus trade. Please fire this idiot.
AT the very least we had to trade 56 40.
Doesnt make sense why we didnt get 1st from other teams that did a 1st. Must have been we wanted more they said no and we speed dialed/had on hole VEG at last sec. to let them have him.
This had to be done and now the goal is to trade/combine picks/prospects/player at draft and move up in draft to the range where this draft is deep.
So far saw 2nd rounder and Malcolm Subban, not saying any more.
Why didnt we keep the better goaltender thats younger better and hasnt been to rehab for cocaine addiction ( crawford) bowman is a complete idiot fans lets start the boycott all over again stop buying merch and filling the United center
You all realize that teams have to be willing to give up a 1st right. Trades aren’t one way decisions and especially when dealing players on expiring contracts
Why didnt we keep the better goaltender thats younger better and hasnt been to rehab for cocaine addiction ( crawford) bowman is a complete idiot
Wow. Isn’t everyone overrating Lehner. He wasn’t even signed by his own team and had to take a $5M deal with us. He has a 3.01 goals-against average, a .918 save percentage with ZERO shutouts this year. While Crawford has a 2.80 goals-against average, a .915 save percentage and one shutout this season. Crow has been out playing Lehner lately and over the season has a significantly lower goals-against. Don’t you think teams realize this????? That is why Colorado was after Crawford and not Lehner. I think the return reflects this reality.
Not a Bowman fan…but just curious how all of you arm chair GMs know he got hosed…do you think he would have turned down a first rounder if it was offered? Also, you don’t know who the prospect is yet.
How in the world does Stan bowman still have a job? If he’s not fired then it shows how corrupt this organization is. Chicago sports are just like their politics. Bowman can even get any sort of return fit the best goalie in the league. Such a clown. The Gus trade? Another clown move
Seems like teams have really cooled on giving up much for pure rental players heading to UFA unless they really believe they can re-sign them. I believe Toffoli was the only rental that brought back a first round pick. Saw several articles that said Carolina strongly prefers to stay out of the rental market and the two bigger names they acquired today both have term. Not excited by Malcolm Subban but better to get the pick than to lose Lehner for nothing.
So keep a 30 something goaltender who is past his prime.e on team of has beens so u do have next year as a goaltender no prospects because idiot got rid of all of our goaltending talent so geniuses whos are number one goalie stop living in the past 10 years wake up
Don’t want to grouse, but not a great return for the bird.
Seriously, this surely has to be Stan’s last move. We simply need a hawk in that position going forward.
subban, a second rounder, and a pick is a solid return for a guy that was going to walk in the off-season. it’s hard to get teams to give up a lot for rentals unless they really believe they can extend them. Bowman got a solid return.
Malcolm Subban is the prospect. Age 26 Sv%: about .900.
Not a bad haul for an expiring contract and a around the 54th pick (if team point rankings remain the same). Lehner was going to be gone.
Am critical of Stan like most of you, but give him a lot of credit for signing Lehner.
Lehner wasn’t highly ranked on the trade deadline list so a second is what you would expect.
TSN listing Subban and Slava Demin in the deal. I have seen Demin play for Denver. I actually thought he was pretty good.
https://dobberprospects.com/player/slava-demin/
Don’t need signed for 2 more years if they choose to keep his rights.
Stan got fleeced by Vegas.. fire his ass!
Updated info: Subban, Demin, and a 2nd rd pick. Forget the “not a bad haul” for an expiring contract I just posted. Make that a huge HAUL.
Message to Hull: What was that about wasting $5M on signing Lehner?
If there is any truth to Lehner offering to take less money for a 3 year deal then mutiny coming.
if in fact it`s a second rounder, plus Subban, and that prospect Demin then it is indeed a very good haul under the circumstances.
paul
i have no idea what you know, but i know for absolute certainty that you are a flaming ASSHOLE. if in fact crawford has been to rehab for whatever it may have been why do you think it is okay for you to announce it to the world? it certainly isn’t public knowledge if in fact it is true. and it would be if crawford wanted it to be. do you feel like a big man for posting that?
TSN does not have the 2nd round pick included in the Lehner trade ……… just Subban and Slava Demin. Sportsnet did have the second round pick included so we might have to wait a bit for final confirmation.
I’m satisfied with the return on two rental players
Was hoping for a 2nd for Gus but I knew that was the max – a third was more realistic
Sooooo at no point in time does Stan say.. “in the event vegas goes to the western co ference final vegas gives up the first round pick in 2021 or 2022 assuming they still have it (or some other clause). And in return Blackhawks give in exchange their third round pick on 2022. And should Vegas win the cup that third round pick becomes a fourth round pick.”
How hard is that!!?????
more than a fair comment
re Bye Bye B’s comment
Saying it is easy, getting Vegas to agree to it is hard.
Hes a OFF Defensemen-great, soph. with Mitch-jr. Wonder what Mitch says about him.
We are allowed to trade these players, to cobine trades to get higher picks/other prospects.
We need to go to new identity. The one that Tim/others vision.
Give Stan credit for signing Lehner, last time I checked Hawks were in last place. So I guess thanks Stan
Would be interesting to see if Chicago still pursues Lehner once he hits the open market, if he does and there was an agreement in place to allow him to leave to a contender and then have serious FA talks as an UFA with the so called terms (i.e. 3 year, team friendly deal) discussed with him.
The idiots that believe Crawford had a coke problem are the idiots that dont realize Lehner actually had a huge alcohol and substance abuse problem.
Everyone gives Stan crap for these trades, but you don’t know what was offered. If you think anyone offered up a 1st for Gus or Lehner…pass it over. Not defending other moves, but its easy to armchair when you dont know what was previously on the table.
Stupid Stupid Stupid!! Unbelieveable!! I don’t know!! Really disappointed with supper management..
Demmin and Mitch both be ready? for Rockford in fall/training camp.
So what is it as of now, 3rd conditional 2nd Subban Demmin.
Ian – re: your comment about possibly taking less money to stay. I had the same initial reaction but there has to be more to the whole Lehner story. I can’t think of any similar situation where a player has a high level of success and his current team doesn’t want him and no one else offers a multi-year deal. Then after another strong season no one seems to want to give up much for the playoffs. It doesn’t make any sense to me in a league where poor goaltending gets people fired quickly.
Proving once again that Bowman is the worst GM in the NHL.
The team will not improve until BOWMAN IS FIRED!
very unlikely the fans will ever know what discussions took place over the last 7/10 days while other players were being traded…….but, is anyone on this site walking away today saying “great job stan. you really won the day.”
MS he has been good in a tandem but his tail off of late has to make you wonder how he would handle a no.1 load of 20 or 30 more games a season. Doubt there was better offers for Bowman were there or the deals be done. The majority wanted something for them not just walk for nothing. Lehner return in a year or 2 could look very good.
Not mad, think we did what we Had-to at min. So good overall.
For the return I wanted a 1st and good prospect. Demin is good then thats good and if 2nd is conditional on VEG in conference final, then they have a good shot being the more experienced and deeper team then EDM VAN.
Too bad that Peter Chiarelli got canned last year, because now Stan is the Stupidest GM in the NHL…we give up 2 2nd round picks for 38 year old, blood clotted, barely alive Kimmo Timmonen, yet all we can get is a 3rd rounder for Gus, not to mention that we ONLY received a 4th for Michel Kempny. Wow Stan, you are really an idiot! I cannot wait for your FIRING ceremony! Good Riddance!!
How is Subbans brother caphit/contract wise. Would he come here with his brother being here. 9m for 2yrs. 7 ltir for 76 in 2 yrs.
Hi. I’m a loser former grade school hockey player and I know for sure, because me, that Bowman should have gotten at least 2 1st round picks for each of rentals Lehner and Gus. We’re the Hawks after all. Every player would pay us to play here. We’re special. I’m special. Go Hawks!!
PS, hits are the only stat that really matters!! I want tough guys like me. So what if they’re slow and stoopid. At least I can relate to that.
Wouldn’t have been happy with a 2nd and Subban. The kid prospect changes the story as a 20 year old Dman gives hope of something good.
Would like to have seen a couple other pieces moved – Smith and maybe a Dman. I won’t call it a great day, but it could have been worse.
I apparently missed something about Lehner offering to take less for 3 years here. Can someone please enlighten me – I find it a bit odd based on what has been reported recently that Lehner wants his payday.
I think time is needed to decipher today’s moves and non moves.Was Bowman handcuffed by someone above in preparation for him being kicked to another position in the organization at the end of the season?We all knew that at the very least Gus and Lehner had to be moved today.Did Bowman wait too long?If Mitchell,s teammate turns into something and Subban can stop a puck or two,and Bowman gets kicked into an office somewhere,we will all be satisfied with today.
Tommy Ivan…every year’s supply and demand curve sets a different price for assets so we really cannot compare this return with that one. I’m not blown away by what he got but, if you look at it with the lens of the whole season, we started with nothing except available cap space. Lehner is a rental and had been faltering just a bit recently introducing doubt in his value. So for the use of cap space and some or M. Wirtz’s money we got:
1. A goalie prospect better than any we had this morning
2. A d-man prospect playing with Mitchell in Denver
3. A pick
SO getting three assets for something we got for just cap space, is not all bad.
I still think Bowman should go because I don’t think he has the courage to do a full rebuild and this team is wasting time and valuable assets expecting this core to bounce back. They have had ample chances and they keep repeating the same mistakes under 2 different coaches now. I do cut him some slack though because I have suspicion that McCub Marketing man would slam the breaks on anything meaningful in the way of a re-build.
Pretty hard to see who would want Smith with the $ and term he’s owed although I would have like to have seen him traded as well
The rest of the heavy lifting to remove the non performers on this team is going to fall on the new G.M and Head Coach/Staff.
Maybe you missed it Mr. ORIGINAL?
Hawks paid $5million for a backup who could not out perform a 35 year old Cup champ to get one of the worse backups in the league, a second round pick which for Bowman means another bust draft when he and Kelley get together to talk strategy (Krys, Knott, Iacopelli, Beaudin, Louis, Hayden..etc…)!
And to top it all off, another dman in Demin, a guy that plays on a 3rd pairing in College at the moment, have you seen him skate…another Gilbert? He could have used that $5 million, trade away the slow poke Murphy, never sign Carpenter and maybe go after better free agents that play the forward position to give Toews and Kane a shot at the playoffs that they deserve!
No, not Bowman. He has drafted only dmen like Joku, Boqvist, Mitchell, Beaudin and Vlasic the last 3 seasons in the first two rounds. Only Dach is a forward! Traded Perlini for a dman, traded Saarela for a dman, picked up a dman on waivers in Seeler, and now picked up another dman for Lehner? Signed 2 free agent dmen in the off season! Wow, just a complete clown!
So, I repeat this GM has no clue what he is doing? There are only 6 spots available on defence versus 12 at the forward position. We have lost Hossa, Sharp, Teuvo, Schmaltz, Danault, Panarin, Anisimov and all we do is draft or trade for dmen? Or sign 4th line slugs!
Wow!!! Incredible! And for Gus, this is what he got? San Jose got a 1st round pick for a 4th line player in Goodrow? Listen, no one around the league likes the Bowmans, it’s a fact especially the way they treated Tallon. Stan’s arrogance rubs the entire league GMs the wrong way. The proof is in the pudding when simply said!
Your top prospect in Rockford offensively is Sikura whom you drafted in the 6th round? What he he done? Nothing…no one thinks Bowman is a top NHL GM. Winning Cups off a team he inherited from Tallon doesn’t make you the best GM in the league. He has had 5 seasons since the last Cup to build a farm system, to make solid trades and to surround 19, 88, 2, 7, & 50 with talent not AHLers or busts! And he fires a great coach!
Firew JC, fire Bowman!
Well Said Hull65
did i hear it right?blackhawks pay half of lenhers salary?
Oh by the way Espo4Ever, Kane and Toews are younger than Sid and Malkin but the PENS have made the playoffs 13 seasons in a row. Just like Boston, Tampa and Washington, they have kept their core star players but their GM’s have also provided these players with talent around them every single year! These are smart hockey people. So, blowing up the core team is not the solution, but blowing up Stan and the coach, sending them to the beach in Florida with Daddy Bowman while JC drives Stan around is a good idea.
Every night, 19, 88, 2, 7, 50 perform! The rest is because Bowman has failed. I think a quick fire sale in management will revitalize the city and the veteran players who have never respected Bowman because they know he is not a hockey guy. Trade Maatta and Murphy to sign free agents or get forwards in return. Trade Beaudin who will never be a top 4 dman like Keith, Seabs or the Hammer, especially not at 5’10”?
But get real hockey people and get rid of McDo as the president!
We have two extra picks and a prospect and a goalie that we can match any offer given to him by another club for hanging on to 2.5mil and to UFA that we can sign if we wish to next year.
Not great but in a better situation than losing said two UFA for nothing.
If Lehner doesn’t fall in love with Vegas more that us give him an offer in the summer. Extremely doubt that Vegas would want 11 or 12mil locked up in goalies. Offer Lehner 3yrs at 5mil or 4yrs at 4mil in the summer to return. Now we have our goalie back and what we received for him.
Same for Gus. No one believed he is a 4mil a year guy. Now offer him 2mil a year or 3mil a year if we want him back. I would not want him back.
Would have liked to see Smith gone but that could be done at next year’s TDL or at the draft.
Oh yeah, I forgot, we got TJ Brennan again! Another dman! Can we bring back Clendening? JOKE!
Wait until Mitchell tells his agent that he is not signing in Chicago! That will be fun news!
Hey Stan, who will chase McDavid and Athanasiou down? Will it be Strome, Carpenter or MAATTA and MURPHY? Nice job Holland!
Lots of interesting posts. Hull does make (after filtering out the repetitive material) one indicting factual point — Pittsburgh has made the playoffs 13 years in a row (w/ three Cups and another Finals appearance); they always have a shot @ the Cup b/c they make the playoffs. That is major kudos to Rutherford, as well as Shero (I believe, maybe I’m wrong) the prior GM.
Bowman botched up (i.e., he gets an “F”) the same type of situation that Pittsburgh’s has been in for a longer time period. He also fired the best coach in the league for a neophyte. This made matters even worse. His evaluation of the coaching situation was kerosene on the fire he started.
What does Bowman do better/worse — making trades as a buyer, or making trades as a seller?
Malkin,Crosby,Letang >Toews,Kane,Keith
Hull is just a complete troll. He must be a riot at parties. What a clown.
Subban? Subban? We have no backup Goalies ready to play 20 games? It looks like we are stocking the minors with second round draft picks that will never make it. What kind of deal is one where we have to pay half of Lehner’s salary. How do the Avalanche get a proven player for a fourth round pick and we have to give up one of the best Goalie’s for future unproven players? How does Kane and Toews feel about all these terrible deals?
Stan could have tried to trade Gus last year while he was on the upswing. However, it would have signaled that he was “throwing in the towel”, and it wouldn’t have fit in their “we’re not rebuilding” narrative. Selling low has now rendered a 3rd round pick, of which, I have no faith that Stan will pick someone of use.
Slava Demin is 6’2″. He is not a pint sized. I wonder if he is a strong skater?
@ Silent Spot
Steve Konroyd says the sticking point was likely that Lehner wanted 3 years and the Blackhawks would only offer 2 years. When Lehner said he would take a discount over his original stance of “no hometown discount” if he got a three year deal, Chicago did not ever respond. Konroyd says that Lehner/Agent possibly screwed the pooch by announcing the no discount stance so early on, and that it might have soured him with Stan et al, and in the final analysis Crawford is their goalie going forward for the next 2-3 years.
I don’t know that I hold to Crawford being the guy, because I think Corey, as great as he has been, is a ticking time bomb concussion wise. I don’t think he’s durable enough to stay in the net for that amount of time. We’ve seen extended absences from him due to the head issues and I don’t expect that to change. We’ll just have to see how all of that pans out.
I don’t know what Stan’s plan for the future is. It’s a mystery. Maybe he’s stuck and can’t find his way out.
Dan Hohenstein, it’s called trading an expiring contract you could not re-sign for decent assets. Also, it opens up cap space for next season. Half of Lehner’s salary comes off the books at end of the season. No impact.
@HULL65 5:16 pm
“Maybe you missed it Mr. ORIGINAL?
Hawks paid $5million for a backup who could not out perform a 35 year old Cup champ to get one of the worse backups in the league.”
In other words, Vegas is even dumber than Bowman for trading away decent assets for a terrible backup with a .918 sv%, which resulted in stealing some extra wins for us. Just had to laugh.
Lots of interesting points on this board.
I know this much.
Over the weekend, I was told NOT to expect much at the deadline that the offers for Gus and Lehner were weak and disappointing. Nobody was offering a 1st rounder for Lehner and certainly not Gus.
At 1:30 PM on Monday, with a half-hour left until the deadline, Stan still had not made a move and it started to appear that Lehner and Gus might play out the last 20 games of the season and walk for nothing.
Tonight we have a 2nd rounder, a 3rd round, a defensive prospect and a back-up goalie. Not bad. Not tremendous. But not bad.
We are rebuilding and now have four picks in the first 3 rounds of the draft. One will be a lottery pick. Not bad.
The unfortunate kick in the groin to me is the Shaw trade. A 2nd and 3rd rounder for damaged goods. Very unfortunate.
Shaw’s situation, as it has panned out, is definitely disappointing.
There is never much mentioned about Shaw’s prognosis. Is he going to retire? Is he actually going to try and play again? I put him into the category of someone who can’t be relied on long term, and perhaps should quit now. He’s got a young family with a new addition. I doesn’t seem prudent for him to continue to pursue playing.
Let’s say Shaw is done. What happens cap wise for next season? Does he go on LTIR, and not retire? I’ll admit I need more schooling on these matters so I’d appreciate any info from those in the know.
Big Indian – Thanks for the information.
Taken as you present it, I get sent back to the Saad RFA talks with Bowman and how quickly that went all sideways. I always had gotten the impression that Saad didn’t get a one-on-one with Bowman, and the deal Saad’s side presented simply pissed off Bowman, who then quickly fixed the issue with a trade. That’s an over-simplification, yes. But it sounds like again Bowman didn’t get what he wanted and walked away. Might not have been the most prudent decision. But then again, knowing how much time McDonough spends with his nose in the air, it may not have been a decision entirely made by Bowman.
And YES – I have dealt with McDonough.
My recollection is that Denim is a good skater and solid too. I watch Denver when I can to see Mitchell, but I remember Denim because he really caught my eye in one game. I think he has some upside.
Craig, the moment the Shaw trade was made I posted that this was a desperate move by Bowman to save his job. Shaw has paid the price for sacrificing his small body. Some said he was one concussion away from the end of his career. Yes, Big Indian, looks like Shaw is done while MTL gets some nice picks.
In fairness, I think Bowman made some good trades today.
Jordy think Denim goes back to Denver next year and will get real chance then to see with a bigger role and how he elevates his game. Too early to say he ‘s a keeper or not yet.
Original not upset either with today, but knew some would be. I still think Shaw was a McDonough marketing move to bring back a fan favorite, to make sone happy. Agree not a prudent hockey move.
Lehner’s trade was a 3 team swap with him going to TOR first and the Hawks retaining 50% of his salary – the Leafs then retained another 44% before he goes to VGK
that’s the way I read it from Cap Friendly
Retaining salary doesn’t really matter to the Hawks as it will be off the books this summer
Has anyone missed Gus on the back end the last two games?
No? …me neither plus we got a third round pick for him
Agree though that he should have been traded in the summer – I was hoping he would be
The irony is that I’m sure they kept him for this year because no one else was any good QBing the PP and now the PP is the worst in the league
Having said that Keith has actually looked OK on PP1 as opposed to last year when he was horri-awful
ESPN Winners and Losers
Winner: Robin Lehner
Robin Lehner was a Vezina Trophy finalist last year who just wants to be treated as such. He’s looking for a long-term deal and fair compensation. He was hoping it would come with the Blackhawks, who took a one-year, $5 million flier on him after the Islanders snubbed him for Semyon Varlamov this summer. But contract talks between Lehner’s agent and the Blackhawks stalled due to a disagreement on a term. And the Blackhawks — despite a promising showing before the All-Star break — don’t look like they’re going anywhere this season.
Now Lehner gets a terrific opportunity to win the Cup this spring with the surging Vegas Golden Knights. Marc-Andre Fleury has been burdened by a big workload since coming to Vegas, and his save percentage this season is among the lowest of his career (he’s also working through personal tragedy, as his father passed away this fall). Lehner will get ample opportunities to start, and potentially play a lot. And hopefully he can still get what he wants this summer.
Loser: Chicago Blackhawks
The Blackhawks were poised to pick up big returns as a seller at the deadline. Instead, they picked up a second-round pick, a third-round pick, a backup goalie and a college defenseman whom our Chris Peters doesn’t rank among the Golden Knights’ top 10 prospects. If I’m a player on the Blackhawks, that doesn’t make me feel great, especially since the two players traded were popular in the locker room.
Erik Gustafsson should have been traded this past summer, when his value was much higher. Meanwhile, Robin Lehner, a reigning Vezina finalist, kept Chicago in many games earlier this season when everything else was falling apart. Since the return on Lehner was so low, it raises the question of why he was even traded at all. Couldn’t the Blackhawks have just kept him — they still are technically in the playoff hunt — which would have set them up better for re-signing him to an extension?
Hull, we got the goalie prospect you wanted/said we had none. Thats on your checklist.
Not every Defensemen make it, so the more the better.
Dach Kurachev Barratt can be top 9 HHNL Cup deep roster FW. They could be and its fine when we add/get the 9 and 4 D for that. Theres no order to it, just get the 9 and 4 when we can.
If the Hawks Don’t score More goals per game….Non of this matters.
Saw a stat that Lehner’s save percentage over last 20 games was .906 which is not great – I didn’t realize he had dropped so much. This definitely didn’t help his value.
While today was disappointing I couldn’t help thinking about all the hype in the last week about the next convention in July. With so much emphasis on marketing there is no way the organization goes to that convention to announce “status quo”. The storyline will be (and needs to be) “we are very excited about the upcoming season with our new GM and coach”. This changes the narrative from the depressing recent results for the folks spending the cash. The only question is when do the changes take place. My guess is not until year end but I now strongly believe that SB and JC are dead-men walking.
Hi Craig. In hindsight as well, I agree with your concerns about the Shaw Trade. I could be wrong but I think Burakovksy ( skilled, big, and only 25 years old ) was traded 2 days before we traded for Andrew Shaw by the Capitals to the Avalanche for a similar package of Draft picks. The rich get richer………we`ll never know if he was ever even considered by the Hawks.
Crosby > Toews? Ok, we ll go w that. It’s no landslide though.
Letang > Keith? That’s absurd. I don’t think Letang even played in the last Penguins ‘Cup win; he missed the playoffs one of the two years they last won it. He’s missed a gazillion games over the years regular season as well. The Penguins have proven they compete for Cups without Letang, that’s a testament to their GM & coach.
Malkin > Kane? Malkin is a very good player, but he’s no Kane. This one is clearly in favor of the Hawks’ player as well.
So what do we learn from this endeavor? The Penguins have been a better team than the Hawks b/c of their GM and coach over the last five years for certain. Prior thereto, when the Hawks had their run, the Penguins were making the playoffs every year and still relevant in the East for Cup contention.
Rutherford chose Sullivan, Bowman chose a simpleton he found by coincidence on a trip to Europe Verdict:. Bowman at fault/guilty for Hawks’ state of affairs, on all counts.
I was talking about where the players are currently. But career wise…
Keith- 1130gp 99g 602 points
Letang- 800gp 126g 534 points
Toews- 935gp 343g 807points
Malkin- 899gp 412g 1064 points
Kane- 965gp 383g 1015 points
Crosby- 976gp 459g 1257 points
ORIGINAL6HAWKEY
Thank you to bring a third party opinion into this discussion. It still does not look good for current management.
Ok fine you win. If you think the Penguins are better solely b/c of pure statistics re those three players, so be it. Those three players to the Hawks are more important than those three to Pittsburgh, and that’s bc Pittsburgh has a far better GM and infrastructure, they ve proven it. So you agree then that Rutherford ( and his predecessor ) are highly more competent than Bowman? And Rutherford’s choice of head coach was highly more competent than Bowman’s?
I’m simply making the evidentiary based point that the Hawks are in the plight they’re in bc of Bowman, and he should be discharged. That’s it.
Speaking of genius GMs how about Tallon’s stealing of pending UFA Erik Haula and 3rd liner Lucas Wallmark plus a couple of unrecognizable prospects for a legit 26 year old 2nd line centre with 2 years left on his contract – wow good job HOF Dale upping your draft lottery odds – for a while there it looked like you actually might make the playoffs and ruin any chance of another high draft pick
Not to mention FLA is competing with CAR for the playoffs although that is not an issue for the big brained Tallon who last week traded (and lost) with another playoff rival (TOR)
With these two trades Tallon has done everything he could to ensure another good draft pick
Hey, even ESPN says Hawks are the big losers today.
We picked up another dmen today, a guy in Vegas that is ranked as their 10th prospect? Wow, you call that an NHL propsect?
We already drafted Joku, Beaudin, Boqvist, Mitchell and Vlasic. We traded Joku for a 4th line soft winger in Nylander and how is that player better for Toews or Kane to make the playoffs next season? We needed to draft or trade for some forwards not just dmen.
Bowman, ask youself one question: If you love the players you drafted on defence the last 3 seasons why do you keep picking up dmen on waivers or more trades? Are you still in love with Sikura?
How does the size of Mitchell, Boqvist, and Beaudin stop elite teams like Boston, Washington, Tampa, Pens, Colorado Vegas etc… The size of those 3 smurfs cannot be on the ice at the same time. Again, Bowman is flawed in his attempt to rebuild or retool this team. He had opportunites to draft wingers to help Toews and Kane after the loses of Hossa, Sharp, Saad, Bickell, Ladd and then Panarin and Teuvo/Danault 5 seasons ago.
Those are the questions that Bowman needs to answer to. Boston picked up Ricthie and Case, two big wingers who can play…. Case is a great skater too!
Subban is not a goalie prospect! And I thought Bowman was high on Delia??? How much did he give that dude?
He traded Lehner and Gus without getting any forward prospects. Thus, he failed to recognize a real need in this organization which is wingers with skill, size and speed! Athanasiou?
WOW WHAT A JOB STAN !!!!!!! I don’t think there is another GM in the NHL that could of ( SORRY THAT SHOULD BE WOULD OF ) PULLED THIS DEAL OFF !!!!!!! Maybe next you could write a book tilted: HOW TO BE A USELESS PIECE OF SHIT THAT HAS NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE DOING BUT CONTINUE TO DO IT & KEEP YOUR JOB. One final question for ROCKY, are you paying attention to all the positive feedback us fans are providing about your GM or ” DON’T YOU GIVE A SHIT ” ???????
19 88 2 are better then PIT players. 2 out of 3 better.
Top 100 players of all time, whose there.
Kane
Toews
Crosby
Keith
Ovie
Wrap, I think its TOR or FLR. Whoever is 2nd there isint close to the other teams-they are at 15 14 13.
This is why they need to get rid of division and go back to conference standings for playoffs. TOR and FLR have no right to be in playoffs.
5-8 seed
NYI 15
PHI 15
CAR 13
CLB 12
NYR 9
TOR 9
FLR 8
TOR is in 10th place and FLR is in 11th place.
CLB should be 8 seed at +12 but Bettman has TOR and FLR as 8 seed at +8/+9.
The only players in the Hawks locker room that have a right to be upset are 88,19,2,20,and 50.Everyone else can be shipped out of here if they don’t like how this deadline went down in losing 2 popular players.They are the reasons that the Hawks were in a sellers position.If you don’t want to see your friends dealt,play winning hockey and make some plays.The main issue that I have is the aversion by management of obtaining quality forwards with size and speed,including the at least 2 Centers, that this team desperately needs.That is where the veteran players have a complaint.Also maybe getting a full NHL Coaching staff in here.
MO,We need to get the Sharks,Ducks,and Kings to start playing winning hockey the rest of the way.Its going to be a dog fight for that upper tier lotto.Luckily for Hawk fans,there is only 1 top notch Defenseman in the top 10 this year and hopefully Bowman will not be making the pick.
Per the Sun Times, Stan said:
‘‘It’s important to try to .?.?. build for the future, and I think we’re in a better position to do that now than we were yesterday,’’ Bowman said.
That wasn’t the message from him and McD at the start of this season. Stan is now admitting to rebuilding?
OK, I was wrong about how well we did with the Lehner trade. Subban will be hanging around RKF, while Denim doesn’t look so promising. A late 2nd rd pick probably will never wear the Indanhead jersey. I read some analytics on Lehner putting him among the most elite goalies.
Tallon did even worse with the Trocheck trade. Blackhawk organization has had one bad GM after another.
Alright Tim, let’s get Carpenter, Kampf, Cagg, Smith, Highmore, Sikura, Wedin, Strome, Murphy, Maatta, Seeler, Gilbert and Carlsson to make a play???
Maybe you haven’t seen the ones who have been making plays because they still are making plays after more than a decade; 19, 88, 50, 2, and 7. The ones who are not making plays are Bowman, Kelley, Gauthier and Colliton!
Trocheck by the way had 10 goals as a 2nd line center and has been a slowing down the last two seasons. But will be better as a 3rd line center behind Teuvo and Staal in Carolina. Tallon makes hockey trades. And he got NHL players in return. So do all the real GMs in the league; make hockey trades.
I guess Tim you expected Kunitz and Bouma last season to contribute as much as Hossa, Sharp and Panarin did? Or did you think Hayden and Sikura were going to pick up the slack!
To win in this league you need to score goals! And all 4 lines need to contribute! Those are the teams that win CUPS! Especially the top 9!
Bowman fired a great coach ancd his best friend the year before. Traded Panarin and the Hammer the same day that basically lost Kane, Toews and Coach Q.! Think about that! How low is it to fire the Coach’s best friend and assistant for over 40 years…It’s called Classless!
How dumb was not dressing GUS for two games? Who was he protecting; a 3rd round pick? Seriously! Every other top avasilable player played except not in Chicago! Joke
Lol. Stan Bowman single handily destroyed this team starting when he lost Saad. You can go from there !!!!!!! The last 3 years was evident and now u lose Lehner. Big deal. Hawks weren’t going no where and if you Lehner lovers think he’s the guy then Bowman can get him right back and dump Crawford and u have back up in place already! Rocky will either clean house after season or let Bowman bring back the Days of his dad empty stadium. Tallon & Q Won those cups with there knowledge. Bowman screws up a 2 car funeral. Lol. Season over. You all need to be talking about. Who’s going to replace those clowns starting with a coach. I just think what this team would of been with Saad teuvo panarin and hossa And a few of the guys there traded after them. Salary cap and long term no trade clause contracts were all Bowmans doing. And this POS. Is the Blame
Big Indian, Shaw would almost surely go on ltir for last 2 seasons of his contract if unable too play. Similar to Hossa on last 3 seasons of his contract. Would love to see him back but unfortunately not playing again may be best.
What direction is organization headed from here, cap friendly still get final details but looks like about 1.8m will be available to cover performance bonuses. Only Carlsson and Highmore were paper trailed to play in Ahl playoffs, everybody else on roster can’t be sent down now. With 4 callups allowed from now until end of regular season, 2 to bring those 2 back and 2 more available plus emergency injury callups from Rfd.
Know within 2 months where they pick in the lottery draft, a number of rfas to decide on, 8, 17, 91, 36, 68 and Subban on main roster, plus Crawford ufa. A handful of both rfa to qualify or not and ufas in Rfd. Who will be still there or won’t be in off ice personnel making tge decisions needs a?ressed as soon as regular season ends.
No 1st picks were traded yesterday for a rental player who’s contract expired this year and none of Avs, Canes or Flames, the expected teams appeared to be really interested in acquiring goalie help as they didn’t get any upgrades to speak of. So the return for Lehner was likely alot better than it could have been all things concerned.
Goaltender picture a little clearer, Crawford almost surely be resigned as No.1 next year, just how much of a caphit to determine. Delia under contract and Subban and Lankinen Rfas will likely battle for backup and a 1m caphit range. Possibility of drafting a franchise goalie in Askarov in 1st rd there too. As a 17 yr old he sttrugled at wjc against best 19 yr olds., a natural learning process, long line of goalies had poor showings at wjcs and went on to have outstanding careers in Nhl so silly to judge him on a couple of games there as a 17 year old.
Don’t see all defense returning, 2, 7 or 27 not moving anywhere, good chance at least one of 5, 6, 44 are moved, plus health status of 44 and 7 is uncertain right now. Seeler could be no.7 guy again and Koekkoek a rfa brought back as cheap injury insurance. Mitchell will play at some point next year, could start in Rfd., first. Gilbert, Carlsson, Beaudin, Krys all still under contract could be in picture too, plus Regula and likely Shea be in Rfd. next season.
Toews, Kane, Dach, Saad, Debrincat under contract and Kubalik and Strome probably resigned fill out 7 of top 9 spots. Cagguila (rfa), Nylander, Kurashev, Barrett, Hagel plus maybe a high pick will compete for other 2 spots and a trade or signing could happen too. Kampf and Carpenter with Highmore rfa likely returnees for 4th line, Smiths role could be filled by Entwistle and save almost 2.5m in cap space plus other hopefuls in Rfd. plus reasonably priced signings coukd help too. Shaw again health an issue and may not be back. Should be some trades leading up to and at draft i would expect by whoever is in charge.
Lehner was a stop gap fill from the day he signed in Chicago , to get anything in return for player who was walking at the end of the season is a good thing .
Perhaps Subban and Delia will have some healthy competition for back up rights .
Go Hawks Go ….rebuild in process ,
Bowman can go anytime and wouldn’t lose a bit of sleep-it’s time.
But as the reasoned response from Ian states (and reason is sometimes in short supply) the Hawks didn’t misplay this– supply and demand is at work and Bowman and company had a decision to make–keep Lehner for a bit in a misguided attempt to make the playoffs and maybe (low chance) get to sign him OR take a second round pick, which they don’t have and a depth goalie, which they don’t have much of.
They are caught in this weird mix of veteran aging stars and younger somewhat unproven mix of 18 to 25 year olds. It happens-could Bowman have done a better job-yes but he did what many wanted on this site-try to get one more Cup with Toews and Kane. You have to pay the piper for that eventually and now they are.
There are a lot of teams in the league and they all want to win the Cup!
Many are much better positioned than the team we cheer for. Not sure any GM could have changed this general dynamic in a much more positive way.
New GM, new culture-new leaders on and off the ice.
Agree w/ Noonan, Bowman not to blame for yesterday, that was what it was. However, he is to blame for the last three years plus, starting w/ the Saad trade (#1) as has been pointed out, getting in bed w/ Anisimov long term sight unseen, etc… His worst sin was self-preservation > betterment of organization, i.e. this is why he convinced the hierarchy he should fire Q, and then trust him thereafter w/ his neophyte coach who clearly the players, at best, politely tolerate/ignore.
Good day to all. Except Bowman.
Hi guys
Great being part of your community. See you next fall
GO CUBS!
We know what we have. We know what we need to do. Time to go out and play free wheeling. Play like they played in Major League.. System be damn. Management be damn. That’s my player’s point of view.
My management point of view is bring up people and see what we have. We change it up.
Kubalik Toews Kane/Saad
DCat Dach Saad/Kane
Nylander Strome Caggs
Smith Carpenter Highmore
Keith Murphy
Boq Maatta
Seeler Koekkoek
Crow
Play that for 10 games. What ever happens happens. (Obviously if it’s going great leave it alone but must be going great 8-2 the worse) After that use the call ups and see what we have. Bring up Cammarossa Wedin Entwhistle …..
Objective is to catch SJ LA NJ and others.
Off season make some moves.
Tim, I donot think theres anything getting LA to do. ANA and SJ get help they win a couple games like they did 10 games ago to get to that 2 3 area and we stay at 0 and then take a few hits somewhere and be 2 3 area, kind of thing with them holding there own at 5-5/4-4-2/3-3-4.
NJ is winning some games then hold there own just like that and they are 2 3 area.
Supply and Demand. I understand the economics of it all. I just wanted to point out that other GM’s in the league are always fleecing Stan on trades. Case in point, just look at his last couple of significant trades – Shaw for 2 high picks and the Panarin for Saad trade. Honestly, Gustafson is only worth a 3rd round pick right now, but I was calling for his trade at last year’s TDL, and all of the so-called experts told me I was a fool and had no hockey sense. We would have scored a huge return last year. But, what we have is a short-sighted GM who is only concerned about his survival as a GM and not about the well-being of this organization. He needs to go right now! There is no reason to keep him around any longer with the TDL passing and since we are not making the playoffs, let’s play out the season, score a high pick, and let the new guy sort things out next year.
With the Forward depth in this draft there is no possible way that the Hawks draft a goalie in the 1st round.A new G.M and Management group take over and I believe that Smith,Carpenter,Nylander,Highmore,Strome,Maata,and Subban would eventually be somewhere else.
After this road trip the favourable schedule likely means Blackhawks quite probably a pkys .500 team in those last 17 games. So low 80s is a good poisiblity of where they end up in points at end of season.
Alot of people said sell high on Gus last year too, but he was signed at a reasonable caphit until Boqvist ready to fill his role, so mission accomplished there, it is what it is. If he was moved and he had a big year somewhere else and Blackhawks pp gave similar results with Keith and Boqvist, not likely hear anything about it, right.
@Ian – I understand what you are trying to say, but Gus’ defense is significantly worse than what he brings to a team offensively. In all honesty, Gustav Forsling was as good on the PP point as Gus. He had a booming shot and would have filled in until Boqvist was ready.
If this doesn’t confirm that Bowman is a fool nothing will.
@Nylander – Tim, I agree with you on all the other guys that you mentioned, but Nylander has something. He is starting to show me more consistency and more “want-to” than he did earlier in the year. I would not get rid of this kid just yet, some vet is in his ear and his work ethic has improved drastically since he was being force-fed in a top-6 role. Strome is too slow and plays the body like he’s running to catch a train. He needs to go!
Tim not disagreeing, i said trade high on Gus last year too, some agreed, some didn’t, but understand their reasons why they didn’t. Forsling on top pp, just imagine what posts that would bring, i realize its a dig because Dehaan didn’t work out.
I mentioned before you gotta wonder with Dach and Toews as 1 and 2 centres going forward what that means for Strome. Bowman made comnents at start of year his goal was to resign him and hasn’t given any indication he isn’t. No negotiations have happened either, maybe he is waivering a bit there. If his ask is more than Bowman wants to pay then maybe as happened with Svhmaltz he does get shipped out.
Agree with Coach keep Nylander. Moves for next year are;
Make an offer for Kappenen. Tor should need cap help.
See if Philly is souring on Ghost. Offer Maatta, little less money one less year.
Get Subban for 4.5mil sign little brother for 1mil. Might catch lighting when they play together. This will give us more time to let our younger d develop.
Lot of goalies to sign long or short term. Lehner, Markstrom(check knee status) Holtby Pitt has 2 RFA goalies. Short term Elliot Halak King Henrik for 1/2 and don’t forget Crow.
Always look for a big forward. Must get tougher to play against due to our conference and division.
21 Seattle draft give them anything within reason to take Seabs. Thinking Seabs will be ok with it. Going close to home. Probably be captain. Be a part of starting a franchise. I’m the Hawks I would make a gentlemen’s agreement that I would give 1mil 1year deal to retire a Hawk when he wishes.
Sorry guy’s but I think what Hull65 is saying makes sense. I’m thinking Hull65 is a more “weathered” fan like myself and has seen the shit years too many times and the lack of direction and insight that a bad GM brings. This years TDL moves are shit and personifies the lack of hockey knowledge that Blowman has. Subban, really??? I remember watching him in a few games and thought about how terrible and out of place he was. Not an upgrade from Delia that’s for sure. We also DO need forwards that can play and not more 4-5-6 level d-men prospects. Carpenter centering for Kane?? WTF!! Zack Smith?? No thanks, I’d rather have Anisimov back.
JR -you really think getting another over priced, D-man (Subban) at 4.5 million per is an answer int he short or long term?
There is a reason he gets traded this much. I’m not sure what that is but he isn’t what this teams needs. He will be 31 in may and he has 14 points this year.
Noonan not pushing Subban, but look at the great teams. Habs had a list, Isles had Potvin, Oilers had Coffey, Devils had Stevens, Wings had Lidstrom, Kings had Doughty, Blackhawks had Keith. Letang for Pens had least impact. Look at Oilers and Leafs what’s holding them back. Kane and Toews still carry the offense most nights but Keith still a very good dman, not a game changer anymore. A future hof dman to lead back there is needed if this roster is going to seriously upgrade.
Using Subban so as to have opposing forwards play with their heads up and a little fear coming into the zone with speed. Using his shot also. You want to stop Keith’s slapper or Subban’s slapper?
The huge problems for a new G.M is Seabrook,Shaw,and Dehaan. How quickly can you get definitive answers on their health and ability to play next year and if any of them do comeback,what is their level of play and availability through a season.If you know that all 3 are not coming back you can build much faster.I find it encouraging that the Strome contract talk has gone silent.I know that Stan can’t do it but a new G.M could cut ties quickly.A new Coaching staff could put Debrincats game together getting him the Center and bigger winger that he needs and working on his exits from the D zone.
I’m SO tired hearing about how awesome Pittsburg is for making the playoffs 13 years in a row. I think it helps when you have the player universally agreed upon being the BEST player of his generation on the roster. Of the 31 teams in the NHL, one team did a better job than the Hawks and Bowman in maintaining success over the course of a decade plus. ONE team. Ask the other 29 teams if they would trade places of where they are today with what the Hawks did the past 12 years and EVERY ONE of them will take what the Hawks did over what they did in that time frame.
I could see that Center being Dach.Now go out and get a real Forward to do the dirty work with net front presence and puck retrieval.
In theory you get a winger for Toews and Kubalik,A Center for Saad and Kane,and a winger for Dach and Debrincat. Go out and get the hardest,fastest,best checking group for your 4th line and then focus on the 2 to 3 Defensemen that you need.Sign Crawford for 2 years as you formulate your goalie plan.
Tim Ryan Reaves could be an interesting cap friendly signing for a 3rd line winger.
Tim:
Kubalik Toews Hoffman
Kane Domi Saad
DCat Dach Puljujarvi
Nylander Highmore Matt Martin
Miroslav, with all due respect how is “Bowman in maintaining success over the course of a decade-plus”? Are last 4 years a success? Maybe a half a decade+?
Miroslav,
Congrats on being the only sane person on this board (besides Tab). The collective IQ of the board’s Bowman bashers checks in just a tad below “tree stump level”.
JR Roman ,Beautiful lineup my friend.I would have Nylander on a very short leash though.Ian,Yes.Good idea.He would serve a dual purpose protecting the Stars when needed and even tossing him out in front of the net on the 2nd powerplay unit as a reward.
Clutterbuck would not be a bad addition also if you could get him at a discount of his current salary.
Tim with Dach 2.5m and Boqvist and Nylander $850,000 in potential performance bonues already 4.1m on books for next year. The ability to ltir is minimalized. To take advantage of ltir, you basically build your roster to cap ceiling without using ltir salaries, to prevent pushed performance that don’t count until end if season, carrying over to next season, all salaries including those on ltir need to be under cap ceiling at season end, can’t use available ltir room to cover bonuses. They work counter to each other, so if ltir is in play next season, that fact could actually handcuff ltirs ability to bolster the roster. Load up this summer and then move cap around the draft the following summer may be an option, making it work both ways ltir and having performance bonuses is tricky to say the least.
For what it’s worth, RE 92… I hear that the vet that has been whispering in his ear that potentially changed his attitude/outlook/performance was Lehner.
Guess next summer they could make a deal that Seattle pick a player with a bit of caphit and make it work that way if needed.
Tim forgot the D:
Keith Murphy
Gotsbehere Subban
Boq Koekkoek
Sat in Sect R row B seat 5-6. Were my season tix from ’88 til they knocked the Old Barn down. ‘Nother hint, I always wore the opposing teams jersey with my name on the back of it. Always rooted for the Hawks. The non regulars found that wierd.
Second Balcony also
If all goes well I could see Ian Mitchell forcing his way into that top 6.His game is farther along than Boqvist,s Would like to see them pry M.Savard off of the Columbus defense.
So JR-Chicago will go out and get-
Subban
Gostisbehere
Hoffman
Domi
Puljularvi
Martin
Simple right. No cap next year and no other teams interested in changing their line up?
Brian, that is why you have a GM. If you have these players on the team then other players are not or are on ltir. The question was what we need.
A quick look you can say Maatta’s money will go to Ghost. Domi being an rfa equals Strome being an rfa. Lehner’s 5mil will cover Subban’s 4.5. Crow getting 3mil in stead of giving him 6mil can give Martin 3mil. Got to give Edmonton some one say Smith then Puljujarvi can get 3mil. Got to figure out what Hoffman/Hall (just popped in my head that we should try to get) wants and figure out how you get it. Like maybe don’t sign them til after the season starts so our ltir kicks in and we got Shaw’s and deHaan’s money to use.
Any other questions Brian?
Remember Artemi Panarin? Nuff said!
This paints a clear picture in that the return for Lehner was good/nothing bad.
This paints a clear picture in that the return for Lehner was good/nothing bad.
IAN
February 25, 2020 at 5:56 am
No 1st picks were traded yesterday for a rental player who’s contract expired this year and none of Avs, Canes or Flames, the expected teams appeared to be really interested in acquiring goalie help as they didn’t get any upgrades to speak of. So the return for Lehner was likely alot better than it could have been all things concerned.
Look all I am saying is in a “sellers,” market where players like 4th liner Barclay Goodrow is commanding a first round pick we should have at least been able to do better for Lehner and Gus. I’m always willing to see Bowmans side, but if you look at the deals done since Buff for Morin the only successful trade ever done was Strome that’s a lot of years of bad trades