Blackhawks Trade Saad, Gilbert To Colorado For Zadorov, Lindholm
The Blackhawks hadn’t done anything in free agency.
But on Saturday evening they made a splash via trade.
Chicago acquired defensemen Nikita Zadorov and Anton Lindholm from the Colorado Avalanche in exchange for forward Brandon Saad and defenseman Dennis Gilbert. The Blackhawks will retain $1 million of Saad’s $6 million salary in 2020-21.
Zadorov, 25, signed his qualifying offer of $3,200,000 that runs through the 2020-21 season prior to the trade. With the retained salary, the Blackhawks save $1.8 million in the coming season.
Listed at 6-6 and 235 pounds, Zadorov recorded four goals and nine assists while averaging 17:46 per night in 64 games for Colorado last season.
Moving salary has clearly been part of the Blackhawks alleged plan since the end of the draft.
However, adding yet another defenseman – and apparently dumping Saad – doesn’t help the team on the ice in any way.
It appears more and more that the on-ice product at the NHL level is not the immediate concern for the Blackhawks’ front office.
The Blackhwaks already have too many bodies on the blue line. Chicago has Duncan Keith, Adam Boqvist and Ian Mitchell expected to be on the NHL roster as puck-moving defensemen in the coming season. Zadorov joins Calvin de Haan, Connor Murphy and, in theory, Brent Seabrook as bigger bodies on Chicago’s back end in the coming season. Nick Seeler is also still under contract.
Chicago already dumped Olli Maatta’s contract to the Los Angeles Kings and did not extend a qualifying offer to Slater Koekkoek.
Lindholm’s two-way contract has a salary cap hit of $742,500 and he is signed through the 2020-21 season. He turns 26 on Nov. 29 and has appeared in 66 regular season NHL games in his career.
158 thoughts on “Blackhawks Trade Saad, Gilbert To Colorado For Zadorov, Lindholm”
Absolute dog shit of a trade. This might be one of Bowman’s worst moves ever. Be lucky to get 60 points next season. At least I’ll save $160 by not getting Center Ice.
F off Stan bowman
I suspected that when the Hawks declined to bring back Crow this was a signal to the core players that the rebuild is on. This move makes me think that is also the case. I suspected that the Hawks were going to wait until the trde deadline to move Saad, but that isn’t the case.
So, now we get to see who blinks first, Anyone think that Kane or Toews will go to the Hawks and say, hey, if you guys aren’t going to try and win now, you can trade me…
Couldn’t even get an early round draft pick in return? My God. Kane, Toews, etc will be waiving their no movement clauses and requesting trades soon.
This could’ve been a good deal if Zadarov hadn’t just signed his QO of $3.2 million, or if the the Hawks received a first round pick or top prospect in return. Got none of those. A salary dump that didn’t save much cap space, and netted one mediocre dman on a team already crowded with them on the blue line. Just disgusting.
Assuming the saved 1.8 goes to resign Strome and Calvin is next to go.
This thread should be entertaining. The Stan haters will be apoplectic.
Let me offer what will surely be a voice in the wilderness here.
Remember a few years back when Saad was traded the first time? Do you remember the fundamental reason Stan made that trade? I’ll remind you – it was because Saad’s father made it known that his son was going to get paid big bucks and Stan would not be held hostage in negotiations like that. Saad has 1 year left before he becomes UFA and most commenters on this site and others have wondered if it would be better to trade him now or at the TDL – in other words it was pretty much a foregone conclusion he was going to be playing for another team next season. We can debate the return but let’s not pretend we didn’t assume Saad would be either traded or gone via UFA after the season.
The other thing I would like to bring forward is the common call for more size and physicality. Zadorov is both of those things. He’s 6’6″ 235lbs and hits like a freight train. Is he a great defender? No, but he’s good enough to be in the starting lineup and brings more physicality than we’ve had on the backend in like forever.
I’m perfectly OK with this trade and will be even more happy about it if they trade deHaan and spend the cap savings from both deals to lock up a top-6 forward in a reasonable long term deal.
Lousy, flaming dog-shit of a trade unless I’m missing something. New to the forum and not an expert but why not wait till the trade deadline and cash in on picks and prospects!!! Real sad over here. That’s sarcasm. I’m seething with rage! We saved $$ but with the current team, there’s no reason to buy!
Ebony, I’m completely fine with trading Saad, even though I like the guy. The return on this trade is awful.
Jordan, sorry, but Strome isn’t that good. He’s a nice playmaker with good vision, but he’s slow, soft, bad on the dot, and not good defensively. He should’ve been traded for a pick or prospect at the deadline and the cap savings could’ve been better spent on someone else.
Totally agree with Ebonyraptor. Calm down. Hockey is a business. And you gonna love big Z. Sorry for Gilbert.
@ER, Apopleptic, love it. Buckle your seat belts, its going to be a bumpy ride! This move makes more sense if more than one of Murphy, deHaan, Keith and or Seabrook are also moved…
Let’s go Hawks!
EB what would you think Fleury and his caphit came this way with some decent picks or prosprcts for doing it. Vegas wants to move him bad, a possibility.
This feels so one-sided that it confuses me. Though didn’t expect a King’s ransom, I didn’t expect a player they Hawks will likely ditch next year. What about the your movement?
Just not getting it.
Think about it. Saad has been involved in three trades with the Hawks. In each one they got the short end of the stick.
With questionable goaltending and now less punch, expect some really ugly games next year. Maybe even Seabrook will beg to get out of town.
ER – I am with you but I can’t wait to see the “we should have got McDavid and a first round pick” comments. Zadorov is a tough dude to play against and I thought he was solid last year. With the logjam of d-men there must be another move or moves coming. We also have some cap space to be aggressive with the teams that need to dump salary. The Stan ragers should keep some powder dry cause there are more moves coming!
If they wanted to pay big money for a goalie they would’ve kept Crawford. Got to think there’s more moves in the pipeline. This wasn’t a playoff team next season anyway, not even close. Stan’s fighting for his job too.
If we are truly rebuilding then whoever/whatever we bring in should be part of a plan for the future. On a good team Zadarov is a bottom pairing guy so I don’t really know if he fits that bill. Or is there even a plan? If so, what is it?
Agree that if any of savings are used to extend Strome (aka Adam Creighton 2.0) it would be a bad move.
As with so many of Stan’s deals I’m left wondering what is the point of this one.
Are people going to say we got Zadorov/Lindholm for Panarin now.
Were talking about trading 20 at deadline the whole summer. Trading 20 and getting something then turn around and sign Tafolli. Be creative 2 for 1.
Parimeter is loading up his gun? Going to enjoy this.
ER/MS I agree – I thought Zhadorov looked good in the playoffs and he’s brings that physicality that the Hawks sorely need – he’s only 25 and for a reliable D man that’s still young – in other words he can still get better
At the moment he takes KK’s roster spot although leaving Seabrook as the 7th but it also means Carlsson and Kalynuk in RKF so some other move (s) likely to happen to clear logjam on the back end
It does seem that there’s a change in philosophy in front office so let’s see how the roster gets reshaped from here
We all know much more is coming.Saad was way overpaid for his skill set and what he brought.I am with a couple of others that have posted and enjoy having Zadorov here,I just don’t think I would have taken on any of Saad,s salary as part of the deal.We finally are starting to get more physical.Now Dehaan and Seabrook have to be moved out for some physical forwards and maybe a real Goalie.If the CAP savings is spent on STROME I might not think so highly of the trade.And yes,I know it is impossible to move Seabrook,s contract.
Keep 19 88. Load young wave.
Wrap nothing against Zadorov and what he brings, agree on that. However if your committed to a rebuild and trading your best trade chip, this trade doesn’t exactly hit the mark on that.
The League Is Getting Faster.
Blackhawks Blue Line: Seabrook, de Haan, Murphy, Zadorov….
What’s clear is the Hawks are selling. Let’s not spin this like Zadorov is going to come to Chicago and suddenly find something. The Blackhawks just traded Bradon Saad for a third pair defenseman for one year.
Wow Tab. That would be great if we were playing BINGO and all those numbers were on our card! That’s an interesting statistic to pull up.
As one of Saad’s more ardent supporters on this board, I will say I am not surprised he got moved, but like most here I am puzzled by the trade when looking at it for now. Perhaps it makes more sense – at least I hope so – in a few weeks. It must – and darn well better – be the front part of something bigger.
We have a large collection of Dmen, though this one is bigger and tougher than most. He may actually get sighted around the net defending in front of the goalie – that would be something different. On the left side now we have Zadorov, Keith and de Haan, hopefully pairing Boqvist with someone other than Keith this year. If if I haven’t said it before (too bad – here it is again), I would prefer to see Boqvist with a stay-at-home guy. Give the kid a chance please to learn the game and have some help out there. But Zadorov for one year and then again up for a contract doesn’t appeal to me.
When making a trade, never create a need. What role did Saad play? A key part of our PK, and probably the 2nd most dangerous to score of our guys when playing that role. He could be used on all 3 top lines, either wing, cycles well, digs the puck out of corners, covers the point as well as anyone on the team when a Dman is pinching and is as solid as anyone on the defensive end as a forward. He skates well and hustles too – unlike too large of a percentage of our top 9. His scoring was always his AVERAGE skill. That’s a lot to replace, but we needed more players like that anyway. Now we need another.
I would have preferred to get a young goalie with promise or a Dman with a bit more upside and likelihood of becoming a top pair guy.
If the cap space is to bring in Fleury, he best come with a package of goodies. With 3 young goalies signed, what would be the logic here other than to be mediocre instead of a doormat next year? It best be a no-brainer for our side.
I like the trade from Colorado’s side. He will fit in well as a north/south skater with a strong defensive habit and PK skills. Could be part of a solid 3rd line for them, or a transient winger in the top 6 at times.
I wish him well and thank him for all he has done here, though maybe not as much as most other would have wanted. But I don’t view scoring as the only attribute I want in my hockey players.
As for the Bowman haters: I sense they will continue to hate. It’s what they do!! I find it more comical than sad, and I am glad I don’t have that disease. I remain in the belief that Bowman does need to show a plan through the next season, one that even an idiot like me can see. If not, then maybe I will consider getting infected too.
Crummy trade. No future assets in return. Minimal cap relief. A slow player blocking the youth movement.
Have to agree with Aurora. Moving Saad for no draft picks at all is a loss.
I see it as Stan missing on Boqvist and Beaudin so he has to overcompensate. Say what you want about Saad’s salary but he’s the only forward on this team that is NHL material, bedsides Kane, Toews and Kubalik. This doesn’t help the glaring need for forwards.
And love to hear how Stan is going handle the “is this a rebuild” question because he knows damn well he’s been in a rebuild for years yet continues to deny it.
Stan is starting to look more and more like Otis the drunk from the Andy Griffith show. So once the hawks fire him he might have a career in acting.
I like this deal. Gives one of the young defensemen (pick one, any one) a chance to develop in the American League for a year before being forced to play NHL minutes. At the same time it creates some cap space. Zadorov is a perfectly serviceable defensemen who averaged over 17 minutes a game on a very good team.
Love Andy Griffith is the marathon on TV Land this week or was it last and I missed it. Look bottom line team likely losing money. Saad likely leaving via free agency and had a modified no trade clause restricting movement. Anyone here really think Stan said to himself “okay gonna trade Saad what’s the worst deal I can make?”. C’mon .
Got a big hitter who will be an RFA not a UFA with no trade restrictions. I could see the so called big Z fetching trade deadline interst from multiple teams. Hes a better bargaining chip at the deadline than a pending ufa with trade restrictions. This is business.
To the complainers please go ahead and tell me what your post would have been when Saad walked as a free agent this summer. No seriously I want to read what you were going to write in summer 2021 when Saad walked for more money elsewhere I really want to know
@trip forever…’missed on Boqvist’? He is 20 years old for god’s sake and played capably in his nhl games.
Almost all d men take a few years to figure out the speed of the nhl.
Just A ridiculous comment
Bowman doesn’t seem to know what a good trade might be. The past three years have seen him do nothing but sink the team further. We need a new frigging GM. Going nowhere until we get one.
Like Krug/others did.
Like Krug/others did.
For Honests post.
Like Zadorov, hate how we got him. Let’s not kid ourselves, DeHaan, Kampf, Shaw, Smith & Strome need to be traded. If what results does not include acquiring a top 6 forward and an experienced, talented goalie then Stan NEEDS TO GO!!!! Maybe MacIsaac too….
GlennH…I could do without DeHann, Smith and Kampf as well. Do nothing for us. But I fear Stan will screw that up too. What I’d like to know is what are we doing with Bagel, Kurashev and Barratt. How long do these guys have to languish down in Rockford before we give them a shot? It’s not like our 3rd and 4th lines are so fricking good. And Nylander is awful. Another Bowman muck-up.
Wow. Won’t say I’m surprised because Saad is overpaid and the Blackhawks have their dice in a vise with the cap. But this is a salary dump, period. Zadarov will be in Chicago one season or less. Blackhawks either trade him mid season for future considerations or let him walk next offseason. The failed “reloading on the fly” strategy is officially dead. The Hawks are tanking hard. I have to think Kane is depressed. He remains a star player and his wagon is hitched to a shit show for the next few seasons. And how motivated can Keith and Toews be to play under these conditions. Colliton sucks on many levels and I would fear that he won’t be able to control his veterans in the lockeroom. I’ve suspected that Keith and Toews already tune the guy out. de Haan will be next to be moved.
That’s Brandon Hagel … Not bagel. Damn phone. Anyway. He looked pretty good to me for a shot at third line forward.
What did Saad do to deserve this? In a vacuum it would have been nice to get Zadorov (he actually scares forwards)– but for possibly one year for one of their top 5 players-confusing.
Well at least they should get a top 10 pick next year. Hanson brothers coming out of retirement.
Could this be Bowman’s way to get some of the NMC players to say trade me. Save lots of money that route.
Fleury? Absolutely not. The only thing the Hawks need for the next 2 seasons is the young players to get experience so they can contribute to a contending team in year#3 moving forward. The thing they don’t need is to spend cap space on players that won’t be part of the team when we hope they will be contending for the Cup.
Zadorov will still be RFA after the 2021 season – so he may be a long term option for the Hawks. I like that we will (finally) have a d-man that lays the lumber – it’s been a long time coming.
My hope is that Stan isn’t done. I hope he trades deHaan and finds a forward that can be a long term solution.
Just so we can argue with the facts – Zhadorov is RFA next year not UFA – he can’t walk away for nothing unless the Hawks don’t qualify him next year
If he plays well maybe he resigns
Saad trade was not good. Crow leaving sucks, loved watching him perform. My guess is they don’t protect DeHaan next year in Seattle draft. I could see Keith being traded if the Hawks are out of playoffs as he is only owed $3.6M for two years.
My hope is Stan is not done where a sign and trade happens with Strome. I do look forward to Zadorov/Seabrook being paired together. It would be like the Crush brothers hitting little speedy roadrunners entering the crease and the corners. Beep, Beep, Is that backes cherping again. Sorry, had to say it. felt bad for backes in all honesty. At least our young forwards will be protected.
In the end, the Hawks 2021 DEF could look like this. One has to hope BEaudin, Mitchell, Kalynuk and Boq, at least two of them have to become a top pair. This could be 2021:
Carlson/seabrook the albatros.
That would be a complete rebuild on DEF. With the new money. Landeskog will be the golden child next year, maybe Ovechkin if he leaves. Who knows maybe Saad comes back when he flops with the Avs.
Noonan, what did Saad do to deserve this? He allowed his father to hold Stan hostage in contract negotiations the before the last time Stan traded Saad.
Top 5 skill draft player.
Need to add something to my post. I would also like to see what your post would have been at the trade deadline when Saad was not traded or if he was traded for something like a third round pick, you know given his contract restricting trade destinations. Seriously let’s hear it now.
I like Saad, great player, but would people rather have got a second round pick to big Z? The second round pick likely wouldn’t play here until 2024-2025, …..and I mean for the first time if ever, be serious
Several good UFA Goalies next year (2021) if the current ones flop. Binnington will be the prize. The Top DEF looks like slim pickins.
I would love to see the Hawks sign Corey Schneider to a 1 yr contract for less than $2M. Just to add drama to this whole Crawford trade.
I am not a good trade partner or judge on how to make a trade but would NJ or the Hawks do this trade:
DeHaan/Keith and Strome
PK Subban/Jesper Boqvist/Miles Wood
Just thinking outloud.
I am still calling the be creative 2 for 1 and get a good ufa FW.
sorry meant to say tirade not trade per the corey’s comment
Zadarov will only be in Chicago until the in-season trade deadline is my strong suspicion. If he plays well to start the season then he should be marketable to a contender looking for size on the blue line.
EB i asked if you would still be happy about this trade if the space was used for Fleury, not if you liked the Fleury trade idea. Getting Fleury and some picks/prospects to help the rebuild is a way that could help a rebuild, doesn’t mean younger goalies don’t get shot at no.1 if they earn it.
We need to get bigger step in right direction team will not compete until cores gone and we have some cap space6.5 for the cat a big mistake lucky to get 25 goals makes to much to be moved puzzling liane is better and makes 5 can’t be afraid to lose players cat should make about 4 ouch
Supreme Being GM finishes mensa meeting, then, feeling a profound sense of intelligence, makes trade.
Why does this man dump a good d-man he traded for last year because, according to many, Chicago has 27 Bobby Orr’s in the pipeline?
Then why does this man trade a good, 20-goal forward for………..wait for it………..another defenseman?
Is he planning on telling Wonder Boy Coach to dress 15 d-men, 19, 88, and 8, and tell them to line up in front of his peach fuzz goalies so they can go to shootouts every night?
Would love to play poker with this Supreme Being.
He could finance my kid’s retirement.
Seriously I want to hear what your post would have been with the following scenarios
1. Saad is traded to a good or decent team near the deadline for a second round pick(noting a good team’s second round pick will be closer to the third round than the first).
2. Saad is not traded at all at the deadline as the Blackhawks look to be missing.
3. Saad signs as a free agent next year with another team doesn’t matter which one. The Seattle team perhaps.
Let’s go! I’m genuinely curious. I’d like to point put the conundrum of point two…Saad is so good we cant live without him yet were in place to miss the playoffs with him. You cant have it both ways.
Agree with ebony raptor…we such on D, especially playing physically. Boqvist should not even be listed on the NHL depth chart until he learns (or pretends to give a shot about) defending.
This guy ain’t Larry Robinson, but he fills a hole and we didn’t need Saad.
Honest Guy…I agree, we could live without Saad, but wiser choices would have been better. Why load up on Defensemen? Especially when two days before Bowman the Great stated we are going to see what our young Ds in Rockford have.
One thing is for sure……there is no way the Supreme Being GM would have traded Matt Ellison for Patrick Sharp..,. unless he was GM of Philadelphia at the time.
This is funny actually. Tear it down Stan you blithering idiot. Sell off Toews and Kane, get rid of Keith. Keep going. Maybe we can compile so more useless pieces. This has turned into a comedy. No putting lipstick on this pig, sorry.
Couple points in response salukisal. Big thing to factor in here is the Seattle draft. I look at this team and as it stands decent chance if Murphy isnt protected then Murphy is drafted. Really its about time for a post looking at the Seattle draft. I donr know all the intricacies of the rules so I’m sure I’ll say something wrong about it but ideally Stan and company does know them and is planning for it.
I’d like to say to all the Seabrook and Shaw bashers here take a step back. Both were warriors and both deserve a chance to return from injury. Crosby did which is a pretty darn good example in terms of concussions. Who else is ….oh Corey Corey Crawford who two years ago many people here were dying to get rid of. Well you got your wish. Pertaining specifically to Shaw yes two second round picks was wayyyy much but if it were to third I’d say that’s more than fair. Moreover if they made the playoffs and those second round picks were further out in the draft I’d be a lot happier about it.
Anyway why load up on defenseman? Well my bet us either Murphy or deHaan is in play. Heck people LOVE to bash Seabrook, you know the guy with Kirby Dach living in his attic, but often those same people arent so loud about deHaan. You know the guy who had played not even forty games….and that includes the playoffs.
Does anyone even know what next season looks like? Will there even be minor league hockey???? How many games? Anyone know? Where are these players going to play to learn. Welloving Saad opened a roster spot up front now doesnt it?
What’s does next nhl season look like? Well I hear the plan is to play a full 82 game season. This means a compact schedule. With the man on man hybrid system by the coach that’s a lot of skating with a compact schedule in a league that’s getting faster. Odds are you’ll see even good defenseman rotating out of the lineup, maybe even seven dressed nightly.
Ebony. They are definitely not done. This is a total rebuild. Kane, Toews, Keith and Seabrook can have their feelings hurt but the are cashing massive checks.
The salary cap is flat these guys are making a Uber bucks, they should be thankful.
You know I do not make this stuff up.
I was hoping for more draft picks but at this point the goal is cap space. Here is the savings.
Maatta trade = $3million. Saad trade = $ 1.8 Million. Caggiula not qualified =$1.5 million. Koekkoek = $970,000.
Also, Stan Bowman generally worries about draft picks from the trade deadline and closer. Obviously the Hawks will be sellers at the deadline.
Number of UFAs signed so far =Zero.
Honest agree with your assessment about losing money is the bottom line. Basically the the same as i was saying why having these playoffs this summer was so important. The scary part is unloading now and drooling over draft picks is one thing but what happens when it comes time pay these guys the big money if this road continues. That’s when things could go full circle back to the not so fun pre Toews and Kane days. It’s a be careful what wish for world today more than ever.
As for what i would post under different circumstances of how Saad left, hard to answer until you were there and see how he did this year, the team did etc.
OK folks here is my next trade. You all want to get rid of Strome. So package him with DeCat and get a real scoring forward. You would dump a lot of Cap hit.
You all thought breadman was great, I didn’t. You wanted to get rid of him after Nashville, he was not a playoff man and still is not.Both DeCat and breadman are similar first year great then so so. Breadman is all hype with a BIG salary. Did you think he would have taken a hometown discount to stay with the Hawks? I will eat my words when he leads NYR to the Cup repeatly.
Yea when I said we could sign one ufa I mean a younger one. Only makes sense if they are still in prime yrs when young wave is ready.
Get those younger playes from top teams that cant keep them all/like Nemo.
Load young wave!
Theres a trend going for who were drafting and getting elsewhere. Players with the style of 77. The 1st pick this draft. That defensemen we got. Were going for taht style for the young wave.
Ian, I don’t think Fleury contributes to what Stan is trying to do, so no, I wouldn’t want Stan to acquire him under any circumstances.
I’m optimistic that Stan (Rocky) was being truthful when he said the team is going in a new direction. I interpret that to mean the objective is no longer to supplement the lineup and try to win another Cup with the old core – rather it is to rebuild or retool or whatever you want to name it by working in the young players with an eye toward being competitive again in a couple years. Inherent in that new direction is growing pains which probably means more losses than wins. Any player that isn’t going to be a contributing player on the hawks in years 3 through 5 (2023 – 2025) isn’t going to help the process to get there.
All the time people are bashing Stan for bad drafts, yet they want draft picks, Name one pick in the 3rd through 7th round outside of Shaw and Vinnie that has made an impact with Chicago. One could argue Vinnie has minimal. Stan drafts well in the 1st and Second Rounds but “he gone” fishing in a mud hole when it comes to 3-7. Nada por Nada.
Maybe if Vesey and/or Alex Galchenyuk can be had on 1 yr deals at $1 to $1.5M, nothing more than that. Vesey can at least score, Stan loves #3 picks so maybe Alex can get a lifeline with the Hawks.
Total rebuild is only accomplished when you have resources to rebuild with. This trade accomplished nothing beside dumping salary and compromising Bowman’s position to make meaningful trades.
SB had 9 first and second round draft picks between 2016 – 20119, 6 of which were taken as defensemen. Every GM knows the D-man stock pile that is in the Hawks org. Therefore when he tries to “dump salary” DeHaan, Seabs he will have to include a sweetener. Dumpster fire in the making. We have seen this movie before.
Tick tock Rocky tick tock
Bowman has no plan or vision for this team. He is a completely reactive GM. Defense getting old, me draft defensemen for 3 years and tack on another 4 d-men in 2020. Now me got to dump salary so now I dump salary. Did someone mention that we need a goalie? We had one but dumped that to and have no one to backfill. He does not have proactive plans for the team’s needs until its too late. The upcoming season will be painful to watch, but on the positive side the young payers got playoff experience this year. I am sure that the team that get our future prospects as deal sweeteners will appreciate it.
Wake up Rocky
EB Rocky Wirtz has a number of businesses that need attention right now. The new directive so far is saying were not in the business of winning cups and overpaying players to do so anymore. Anyone looking for big raises theres the door. Modest below market deals are it. Nothing in the way of acquiring pieces for future yet. No big money needed for resignings next year, but still could lose alot of money. In 2 years time Dach, Kubalik, Boqvist need resigned, could be a wake up call to see how that gets handled.
Toews to Vancouver, Kane to Buffalo and Keith to Boston. Let the rebuild start
I don’t hate this trade! We need more size on the back end, and Saad in my mind was way over-paid for his contributions. I have always liked Zadarov as a player!
I have a scenario where we get Seabrook’s contract off our books. Make him the Head Coach! He’s a true leader, respected in the locker room, and supremely intelligent. Have Marc Crawford be the top assistant. Seabs knows the players and knows what it takes to win. Pay him $6M and since the HC’s contract does not count against the cap, we can sign a couple of the remaining stud FA’s still out there. Plus, we rid ourselves of a coach that is not respected by the players, is a liability behind the bench, and is an AHL coach at best.
Great trade. Not sure what everyone else has been watching but Saad has not done anything to turn heads. I’ll take a big, physical defensemen that will clear people away from in front of the net anytime. Defense has been our downfall for the past 4-5 years.
If we have to trade future prospects to get rid of these ufa players/defensemen we got then just F ing let them run out on there own. Were not going to be good for a couple yrs anayways. I know people donot like Bowman and other things but trading away future prospects for players that will go on there own when contracts are up anyways now that would piss me off.
I know we have to reload and getting a top pair D guy in 21 draft with our bottom 5 record is the best thing for us/rebuild. That gets us another gem like 77.
Hoss wants to coach to. Peace.
The problem here is that Blowman thinks he’s smarter than all the other GM’s and maybe “sees” something others do not. Well he’s not, he’s actually a lot dumber than the others and gets fleeced all the time. We’re going to have a ton of dry years here, like the 90’s and early 2000’s with this clown at the helm. If I were Kane and Toews I’d be looking for a trade. Why stick around for this shitshow.
Heard Supreme Being just traded Hodge, Espo, and Stanfield for Gilles Marrotte, Pit Martin, and Jack Norris.
Not sure this is re-load , whatever that might mean.
I think the good news is the distance between the old core and the young core is growing due to departure and age-and the real effort is going towards what will this younger core look like in 2 or 3 years-
I like some, are baffled that it is Bowman leading the way.
He must be the long term guy?
F’kng greatest post EVER on this site!
Thanks! You made me laugh like crazy!!
Don’t see any trading of prospects, 19, 88 and 2 if they request a trade, will be accomodated on their own merits. With 7 the way salary being reduced, makes a buyout a real possibility next off season if he is healthy and wants to continue playing. Cap friendly buyout calculator shows salary due for last 3 years 15.5m and his buyout earnings would be 13m. Caphit not favorable but if going to be playing youth be well under cap and in a position to deal with it for a couple of years. He’d be able to sign somewhere for minimal caphit for a year or 2 and basically no money lost and team saves 2.5m and parts ways amiably. Seems like a possibility now at least.
It appears fans, players and player agents under-estimate ownership concern/worry about that health of the business of hockey.
I’m somewhat disappointed with the comments. Yes, many comments have taken a negative perspective but there’s been far less apoplexy on display than I expected. I mean, there’s PP, but he’s been seeing supreme beings before the Saad trade happened so that kinda doesn’t count. :)
I think we are missing the point. The commentary has nothing to do with Saad, over pay or under achieving. It has to do with the strategy of dumping salary and picking up whatever the other team is willing to give which is more defensemmen which will block the evolution of the prospects already in the system. The trade was counter-productive to the long term development of the team. Look at the last 4 years of drafts, they are loading up the organization with defensive prospects. Which is fine if you develop them.
I don’t hate Bowman, I am disappoint with his performance as an NHL GM. I am disappointed that the only players that maybe be on the next Hawks team making a deep run in the playoffs is Dach and maybe Boquist. I am pissed that we have no potential NHL goalies in the system that were not drafted in 2020. I wonder why we are not getting useful players from Rockford. I am sadden by the prospective that if Kane, Toews and Keith ride this out that they will be on horrible teams. As fans we are in for a rough ride and we have gone through these before. The question is can Bowman be trusted to make good decisions to rebuild the team.
Time to blow it up……..trade Kane to Buffalo for Reinhart , Mittlestat, and a 1st round Pick. Keith to Florida ( to play for Joel Quennville ) for whatever…….Trade Strome and Debrincat to Detroit for Zadina and Velano. Complete re-build.
I don’t see Kane or Keith waiving their NMC this year – maybe next year or two if the next couple of year proves to be an absolute disaster
Well said HHNL, the point here is that there’s doesn’t readily appear to be a through line on Stan’s strategy. It’s schizophrenic.
Players aside, what is he doing? You trade away your most value ale trade chip for, another defensemen? Not prospects, picks or a young forward with upside? Forget the narrative of our defense sucks, if he is truly doing a rebuild that team will and should be different than this one.
Until Stan explains his thinking we are speculating. Does he think Suter and/or Chalupa can make up Saad‘s offense? I’d be surprised if he doesn’t move a dman, but I’ve been surprised before.
Has absolutely no
Successfully construct a
Healthy pipeline and turn the
Organization back into a
I see what folks like Craig Nigrelli say re: a total rebuild, and I see what folks like Ian say about it being more business than on-ice performance (the days of “One Goal” are long gone), and then I see what Crawford states in his interview about Stan’s comments to him, and Stan’s comments about goalies going forward ……
I’m left with a feeling of “just what the hell IS going on?”
I can say that from a Blackhawks business perspective the season tix situation is not good. I re-upped, and then relocated to better seats in the same price range. A Blackhawks sales rep contacted me repeatedly wanting to know if I knew of any friends or family that was interested in seats near mine. I thought I had a lead, and told him about it. When it fell through, I thought I had broken the poor sales guy’s heart! Now granted, they weren’t willing to give any price discounts, but they were asking about scenarios such as “well if your friend buys in now maybe at a lower price point, then they’ll save money now and then next season they can move into your area” etc. etc.
THEN I see that they open up season tix to the general public this past week.
The people that had season tix just to resell them (and there were PLENTY) have bailed. They are reaching the point of diehards only with the season tix. And if the team is not performing well there will not be sellouts. And then attendance will dwindle further. From a business standpoint I think they are playing with fire somewhat here.
If it is a total rebuild, then I don’t see why they just try and at least see if they can move Toews, Kane, Keith …… it’s bad for the fanbase to see them go, but if they really are going with young players in the league, and aren’t going to try and win until a small handful of years from now, why not totally blow it up?
I’m going to wait and see here, but I just don’t see plans in place that seem congruent with one another. It all looks like it’s going to turn out badly.
Not sure what player will be Saad’s replacement as he was one of the teams better forwards. Quality forward numbers are now left wanting. Zadorov is a big guy that absolutely brings a heavy physical game on the back end , a quality the Blackhawks have missed since going back to 2013-2010. Hawks d corp length says bodies are going to be moved. Lindholm looks like an add on sweetener to a deal where really the Hawks have lost on quality.
Rebuild door in now unlocked. Core guys ain’t going to like this at all. More player movement seems likely before the deadline. Some big surprises may well await us. What will this leave us with? Let’s sit back and watch the kids develop scenario is where this seems to be going. Yes, the business aspect of this given Covid 19 and the impact it will have on fans in UC seats is playing a major role here. Good comments Big Indian and others addressing season ticket sales looking ahead to 2020-2021 season. Like I have said before, even if they open games to fans, I’m not going due to pandemic and will take refunds as it applies to the following 2021-2022 season. Really, it’s a mess for the NHL, organizations, the players, and the fans. Nothing we can do now except for watching how this presently thin(imo) roster evolves. Hard to believe that SB is done since, such important puzzle pieces are now missing. Saad I think will enjoy playing for the Avs and I hope he has success there as well as Crow in NJ. Corey and Saader will no doubt miss Chicago. Bowman has some heavy lifting to do.
Let’s Go Hawks!
I’m fully onboard with the plan to develop the young d-men. Boqvist and Mitchell are top priority with Kalynuk, Beaudin and Carlsson right behind them. A contingent of those guys becoming a solid d-corps is the main objective to the Hawks returning to legitimate Cup contender.
However, I’m not onboard thinking that Zadorov can’t be part of that future d-corps. Even if he max’s out as a 3rd pairing guy – a d-corps has to have 3rd pairing guys and having one that has size and is willing and able to use it sounds like a good thing to me. In other words, I don’t believe acquiring Zadorov is necessarily a backwards or sideways step in the plan, I think it could be a good forward step to making the future d-corps.
I see “stir it up” Lazerus has an article on TheAthletic website where Toews is spouting off about management decisions again. For as much as I love Toews on the ice, his outspoken off ice stuff has really worn thin on me over the years. This will sound sacrilegious but I wouldn’t shed a tear to see Toews ride out of town, or the other griper (Keith) either. The team they still think they can lead isn’t there anymore and hasn’t been for a few years. They should either embrace to new direction or ask Stan to find them somewhere else where they can be happy.
There, I said it.
Bowman continues to do what he’s done the last four years. Make every bad move we all didn’t think he could make. He sucks as GM! Firing Q and hiring Boy-coach was bad enough, but it keeps getting worse. He’s only worried about his own job. A Rebuild gives him 2 or 3 more years. And I’m beginning to think Rocky Wirtz doesn’t give a shit what they put on the ice either. It’s all business, now, worries about revenue, not winning.
Back to days like when Eric Daze was our big star. Kane and Toews will be the only reason fans don’t bail and leave thousands of seats empty. When they go, wow, it really will be all over. I hate to see it. But thanks to Stan Bowman, I now expect it.
ER – I agree on thinking of Z as being here for a while – he’s the same age as Kubalik who we think of as part of the future for this team and he’s still RFA after this current contract so it’s quite likely CHI re-signs him
Perhaps in a year’s time if Saad walks from COL as a UFA the trade will look different
Zadorov’s physicality should not be underestimated – he can have impact on a game with his hitting plus he’s a good defensive D man – isn’t this what we’ve all been crying for the last few years
I didn’t see all of COL’s playoff games but they lost to DAL because of their D (and their goalie) not their because they needed another forward
I would like to see DeHaan moved to open up room for Carlsson or Kalynuk and considering the moves with CC and now Saad I don’t think JC will be shy about telling Seabs he’s the 7th – it’s clear they’re not pandering to the core anymore
Kalynuk – Murphy
I guess with Saad gone that opens a spot in top 9 for Nylander although I wouldn’t mind a cheap free agent forward signing like say Anthansiou to kick Nylander’s butt for playing time
HHNL, wouldnt being bottom 5 record for next 2 yrs be best thing for 19 88. That way we have 3-5 gems like 77/including him. Those kind of players are ready in 1 yr/per say so theres not much wait. Then were looking like VAN is when 19 88 are 35 and have 5 rys left.
Now if we trade away good prospects in order to get rid of player like Maatta Haan Smith Debrincat Strome yes that would piss off.
If were not adding 3-5 gems like 77 by draft top 5 3 times in 5 yrs then yea it could go shit for decade. So doing what were doing now is better for young wave/19 88 last 5 yrs when they are 35-40.
ER – You just said what some of us have been saying. Team leaders – as Captain Serious has always been considered – should also be team players. Looking down on the talent of the team because it doesn’t fit your need kicked you out of that class. Keith was always more of the leader-by-example in his workout ethic and his energy on the ice. But I can’t say I ever liked his comments about younger players. Some of these guys forget their roots. Embracing the coaching on the team is part of leadership. Got a problem with it – go upstairs and bitch. Not to the media. Not to teammates. Upstairs is where the bitching gets done. Grow up and accept the downside of your position too. Your leadership is supposed to quell the uproar in the locker room, not add fuel to the fire. I know – easier said than done. But that is why you wear the letter.
The re-build was always going to need to be done this way. Some of us pushed for this 2 years ago. Covid made it happen by taking revenue out of the game. Did anyone honestly see 20k fans sitting in the UC during a Hawks game in January 2021? If you did, it is likely you have been misled by the people who claim to be our national leaders too. There is that word again. Leader.
Considerably less revenue and no adjustment to current contracts to allow for that fact puts all NHL teams in a different world right now. What could have been done is above my pay grade and likely needed the player’s union to be complicit, so I will leave that for smarter people. But we may as well do the obvious thing and get ready for the upside of this horrific event in our lives. That is what Bowman is doing.
And NO – I don’t like the way it is starting out.
Come on 2022. We may be normalizing then. In hockey too.
ER – you indicate you are ok with Zadorov being maxed out as a 3rd pair. I am too. But not at $3.2 MILLION. That doesn’t fit what I would hope to see going forward at all.
The process is early. I lost my favorite BlackHawks player yesterday. He modeled one of the best all-around players to ever play the game of hockey and here in Chicago – Marian Hossa. I don’t think it was coincidence that losing Hossa really was the beginning of the end.
I will remain patient. But I REALLY don’t understand yesterday’s trade at this point. That was the best we could do? Either hockey is in a mess I don’t see, or we made a bad deal. But I will remain patient.
Hoping that saying it will make it more possible. I will remain patient.
@Ebonyraptor ……. yeah, I’m petty much in agreement with what you said about Toews, et al. And it doesn’t have to be all that acrimonious in terms of them leaving. They can mutually agree that they don’t see eye to eye, that the core group has years ahead where they want to be part of a team trying to win, and not just trying to get to a point in the future where they can “compete” (I wonder what Stan’s definition of compete is at this moment).
If it’s a true rebuild, then let it be like the Bulls situation, without the hard feelings. I don’t think it will turn out well for Chicago, but that may be a situation that business etc. forces it into.
I will say that I’ve always felt that the Blackhawks situation with Stan and Colliton after getting rid of Quenneville smacked at least a little bit of the Bulls situation. And those feelings were certainly mine way before “The Last Dance” was aired. JC IMO is not prepared to bring along young players development wise into the NHL. Development means consistency, and he doesn’t bring it to the games in terms of plan or in-game decisions.
If Stan and the organization are hell bent on rebuilding, I don’t think you train a coach alongside your players simultaneously. The leader has to know what he’s doing.
Perhaps in a year’s time if Saad walks from COL as a UFA the trade will look different
Yea I am still on the 2 for 1 with this trade. This large D man can stay if hes good and needed until we have better.
Let the young wave ride & keep 19 88 until theres no more earth. They ll eventually have to do lower caphits so its fine. Its better to get top 5 skill draft players then what we would for 19 and 88 in trades/I mean is any team trading a top 5 pick for each of them?
Rebuild/tank keep 19 88 load young wave. Start gathering pieces along the way like we have a little so far.
For the love of can we get 2 an 27 on different pairs.
Just read the Lazerus piece with Toews – Toews said he’s not going anywhere and it seems the rest of the old core are feeling the same
That could change in a year so let’s see where we’re at then
EB you don’t trade for a 3rd pair defenseman hoping he can keep being your no.6 or 7th guy on the blueline for the next 10 years to build around. Let’s just call this trade what it is, a now trade for a bigger physical presence in the lineup.
Big Indian if the idea is to build a team than can win on its own with or without 19, 88, and 2 asap, then i’m behind it. Problem is alot times this can lead to years of high picks not panning out, young stars be moved out because of bad attitudes or holding the team ransom. My biggest fear is fans are kept engaged with young prospects players potential and some good young players to watch and buy their merchandise until ownership is ready to pump money back into having a winner again.
I just read an article that said Zadarov was a healthy scratch a few times this year and was clearly on his way out. He was a 2013 first round pick so he’s had more than enough time to establish himself as a solid SAH defender – Lanch fans noting that for all the big hits he lands, he is still very mistake prone (sounds a bit like Enrico Ciccone). So, we picked up an overpaid 6 or 7 defenseman who at age 25 is still a project. Does that really help the rebuild or is it just another one of trader Stan’s ill-thought out, impulsive boondoggles.
“For the love of can we get 2 an 27 on different pairs.”
@Mo: different pairs would be a start, different leagues would be better with Boqvist in Rockford like he should have been all along. The way it’s trending our best young player from the 2018 may turn out to be Kurashev (120th overall).
C’mon guys you can hate the trade but Zadorov is not a #7 d-man. Did you watch the playoffs? Zadorov was a solid plus player. The facts are we traded a 28 year old forward with a year left on his contract who was not going to be resigned for a 25 year old big, physical defenseman who will play 17 minutes a night and is an RFA at the end of the year. For what it’s worth I heard from someone I know in Denver who thought we got the better deal.
Still waiting for replies to my three scenarios for Saad pertaining to trade deadline and when he walks as free agaent.
People for what’s now years complained about not having size. Well you got it. I saw boqvist get ragdolled at the slightest touch despite being a pretty big guy. “[But he’s not even twenty!]”, the people who want it both ways clamor. He should be playing top minutes in the ahl or wherever they loan him in europe as who know what the minors look like If only for part of the season Nothing wrong with learning in the minors if only for part of the season. Never mind getting a big hitting physical intimidating defenseman to be his or any rookie defenseman partner. Will be nice to see a hitting physical response after someone injured deHaan as well. Why would they do get a big physical defenseman when they have Regula and Vlasic…..oh that’s right everyone expects those two players along with kalynuk and Mitchell to jump right in the lineup. Lets just mash in some imaginary 2021 first round draft pick into the starting lineup of the 2020-2021 season while we are at it. With Mitchell being a flight risk maybe they could have never got dehaan or matta, just have an open roster spot for the 2019 2020 season waiting for someone who may not have signed at all. That’s a good plan right? I’ll be the first to say moving kahun for matta was a mistake. btw, rumor was if they knew they were getting dehaan they would have never got matta. At least stan stuck to his guns on chasing dehaan, gotta give him that.
Before the playoffs, heck even during the season people were calling to get rid of crow let’s look at the reasons.
1. Lehne clearly he was the replacement. Why is this a bad idea well Lehner wanted to much and if you believe the rumors was offered something and turned it down.
2. Maybe it’s my eyes but Crawford was better than lehner and likely will be next season and on a far worse team.
3. Further back or was the concussion s “[Crawford is damaged goods! Trade him for a bag of pucks for cap space!]” Funny how opinions change, probably the same people saying to get rid of Shaw for cap space. Ditto Seabrook who has earned a chance to return from injuries during a LONG off season. How was Hossa after his 2009 shoulder surgery, I cant seem to remember. He sucked right? Probably should have been traded for cap space and a first round pick…that first round pick maybe would end up being third overall…can you imagine a third overall pick! Maybe the Blackhawks would have got Dylan strome or Jesse puljujarvi or maybe even olli juolevi! Maybe if they fell back in the draft furst round pick Jack Bean or mark McNeill or Duncan siemens.
I’ll bet you all right now Murphy and dehaan are being shopped as you read this. Same for debrincat and Strome likely as a package. You can add zach Smith in there I guess not I can not imagine for who or why any team would trade for him. Not to mention some free agents available, based on stats I’d look at Chris Tierney.
Is the league still on the revenue sharing agreement?
I am happy with this D man guy in the way that he could protect our younger players from being head hunted/cheap shoted and nonsense. Donot know anything about him but if hes a Def D man and has that size and I hear he hits then the younger players can have protection they deserve/goalies to.
It makes a difference.
Not sure who gest traded but with 44 5 and this guy that 3 of 6 DEF D man.
I read @Big Indian comments and his suspicions reaffirm my own. There has always been a fine line between the business operation and the on-ice/on-field operation in any sports franchise. For most franchises, save the Buffalo’s and other small market franchises, business has been so good that the sports operation drove the bus and the business followed, mostly fat and happy. We’ve just begun a period where the business operation now drives the bus, for all franchises large and small. Finances and profitability are likely razor thin with just incredible uncertainty for the future. There is no franchise, except maybe the NY Yankees and LA Lakers, and probably not even them, who operate without first checking with the business office. Managing cash and liquidity are more important than whether the forward group was strengthened or improved.
So what does that mean for the Hawks? Nobody is dealing from the sports operation side of the house. All transactions must now pass through an even tighter financial review. As unattractive as I believe the return for Saad is, better deals just don’t exist. The sports side of the house isn’t wheeling and dealing. Salary cap improvements are now measured in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, not millions. I’m not making an argument that Stan is great by any stretch, but the Saad trade may be considered strong by Hawks management considering what they see from the business point of view. In light of the future uncertainty, this may have been the best outcome possible. Plus, as much as everyone likes Saad, he doesn’t come without limitations and his value relative to his contract isn’t awesome.
Regarding Toews, I’m 100% with @Ebony Raptor. If the idea of a true rebuild isn’t appealing, then let’s move on. Frankly, Toews and company were given a solid 5 years to take another swing at a SC, while also cashing large checks. Respect given. They couldn’t get it done. Franchises pausing and rebuilding is normal and natural part of the lifecycle, where he needs to decide whether he wants to experience this part of a franchise’s evolution too. Frankly, he’s no longer worth his contract in my opinion. I would be more than happy to move on, even in this environment of lower returns from trades.
As fans, I think we’re under-estimating the pressure the business side of the NHL is experiencing. Everywhere life has been disrupted and redefined with new normals. The same is happening here. Judging these moves through the old lenses of viewing trades and FA just isn’t today’s reality. As fans, we likely need to hit pause on our expectations.
It’s also becoming apparent people are unaware many teams in the league used the marketing tool “One Goal”. Maybe every team did. I watched games from around the league the past few years and many teams use “one goal”. In case you weren’t paying attention the last ten years the Blackhawks achieved “one goal” three times.
Regarding Toews Kane and Kieth. Look…only one team wins the cup every year. It’s hard to earn. Anyone read the lost of injuries the Dallas Stars played through? Give it a look. Everywhere I go…and maybe it’s the hockey player mentality I even see it in the beer leagues often, it is all about winning. That’s great but again, one team wins it all. One of thirty. That’s it. Everywhere I read posts about how players arent going to sign because no chance at cup. I’m sure that’s sometimes true maybe even mostly true but if I were a player a factor as well would be taxes, safety from crime and etc, and where I want to live or in some cases like Progner where the wife wants to live. In some cases as well it may be how the coach handles a player…that in some cases becomes the number one factor. Being on a losing team is frustrating but keith said it he and others are expected seemingly to take on a teaching role. My point is this whole thing about toews and kane or keith or seabs asking for a trade because looks like a losing team is ridiculous. If they go anywhere all it takes is a couple injuries or a goaltender gone bad to be in the exact same spot. Other factors will trump “losing”. If they were so worried about it they could have taken less money. You cant entirely predict winning. I mean detroit tried. That Dylan larkins is so overrated. If you think Stan is done you’re nuts. My bet is Murphy is next and zdarov may not stay here and may be a good trade chip at the deadline. Big bodied defenseman arent around every corner.
I dont think this team is that bad. Rmemeber the Seattle draft is comong….maybe I’m making too big a deal of that Seattle draft but it’s something to think about. Maybe I’m wrong and it’s really not a big deal. Tell me if its not. I’ll wager right now Lankinen is the protected goalie unless either other shines.
Remember this is going to be a condensed season. Lots of games in a short period of time. Does this translate to more injuries? Who knows. And hey I want Toews kane and keith to stay. Seabrook too if he can play. Maybe stan knows something about Seabrooks return that we do not. Ditto Smith Shaw and dehaan if he falls on his shoulder ( no offense I do think hes a pretty good player). That’s lots of cap space. Maybe the market turns around and the team makes money. Ovechkin is a free agent next year…already turned down the first offer from the caps.
Still want to hear YOUR response to the Saad situation at the trade deadline or leaving to free agency.
To me moving 19,88 and 2 is not something i would do unless they request it. If young players on lower caphits are playing creating capspace isn’t necessary in a rebuild. I don’t foresee a scenario in next 3 years and beyond where their isn’t a void they fill as young players still developing. Veteran leadership.is always needed, agree or not any hockey people will tell you how important it is. I guess you could argue the team would suck more and get better odds at top pick, but as we have seen teams move up.in lotto alot. However its a matter of opinion, but these guys busted their butts to as mentioned above achieve one goal 3 times, being respectful in expressing it should be the least we can do. If the directive is a committment to building a winner, great, just hope it is and not just a committment to play younger players.
Remember that movie where the kid sees dead people?
I look at the Hawks GM and I see dumb people.
Respectfully, “Frankly, Toews and company were given a solid 5 years to take another swing at a SC, while also cashing large checks.” is the dumbest take I’ve read on here in a while.
The GM builds the roster, the coach deploys it. The team plays with what they’ve got on the ice. Toews & Co. have been at a disadvantage because their roster has been sub-par for 4 years. If you truly, in your heart, believe somehow this reflects back on 19, 2 & 88 for not getting it done you need to check out the other 17 guys on the active roster every night.
It is entirely possible the Blackhawks want to retool on the fly here, and they could still add legitimate depth to the roster to improve the team.
But, based on what Bowman has said & done thus far, I simply don’t see it.
I do believe Bowman will address the third line soon because, right now, the Blackhawks have 5 guys suited for a 4th/5th line and nobody for a third.
How was Hossa after his 2009 shoulder surgery, I cant seem to remember. He sucked right? Probably should have been traded for cap space and a first round pick
Well, the last 24 hours certainly hasn’t been boring on Hawks message boards. :)
I suspect the hornets nest will get another kick or two before the dust settles. Can’t wait – entertainment that doesn’t cost anything is great. Who knows, maybe I’ll start seeing supreme beings lurking about.
Tab, respectfully also, but that’s the wrong take, an old fashioned take. When you’re one of 6 core players consuming 50% of the salary cap (or whatever it is…the math holds up), and in Toews case being the highest paid player on a professional sports roster, the player absolutely has accountability to the roster construction, just as a GM does, albeit different amounts, but not is not absolved from it. The GM can only do so much when player contracts max out. Some players understand this and choose differently, giving the organization more flexibility to build winning rosters. When players take max contracts they clearly understand their responsibility to the roster and the rest of the team. Just ask Tom Brady, who took below market for years, partnering with ownership to maximize the roster. When you max contracts with players, the chase is still on, but different baskets get more eggs.
Look, I’d take the max contract too; there’s nothing unreasonable or unnatural about that, but it doesn’t let you off the hook for how the roster comes together. The player owns (some) of it too. With those max contracts, Toews was given plenty of run…he and Stan put many eggs in 5 baskets. They and Toews own it too, getting 5 years to do something with it, not getting it done.
So there is this question in the back of my head…..
If Wonder Boy Coach flounders out of the gate and dresses yet another scrub to skate with 19, does the Supreme Being call his parents in for a parent-teacher conference?
Tab right now if Strome signs i say they put Dach up with Toews and Kubalik and Cat, Strome and Kane together. Leaves Suter, Nylander, Shaw?, Hagel, Pirri and Kurashev as front runners for a 3rd line without ads, possibly a Kampf/ Carpenter as bottom 6 centers, but agree like to see some adds there. Think if Strome signs it is a 1 year be not much over his qo and if 2 years might get just north of 1.5m. Shaw if healthy an option with 19 and 8 in Saads spot too.
To Honest point of Seattle draft, maybe standing back and seeing if there is one of 3 in house goalies they want to protect vs bringing in a goalie who needs protecting could have some merit to it i guess. Lankinen be my pick also.
Nothing agasint anyone here just that there are a lot of good posts here. Funny ones that are barrals of laughs. Just not laughing at having to wait these 2/3 yrs to be deep again but would trade that in a sec for more gems like 77 with top 5 draft picks and thats where they come from.
3 Top pair D man in 21 draft. Whats the top 5/10 elites in the 22 draft? Just wondering incase were 1-15 picks those drafts.
“It is entirely possible the Blackhawks want to retool on the fly here, and they could still add legitimate depth to the roster to improve the team.
But, based on what Bowman has said & done thus far, I simply don’t see it.”
Yep. That’s exactly what worries me. Bowman obviously isn’t done, but it does not appear that he is trying to do anything to build team depth. His comments to Crawford, unless Crawford wasn’t being truthful, is that the NHL is moving toward younger players and that was a big part of Crawford’s departure (article in The Athletic).
In the same article, Toews said no one ever talked about a rebuild, and Keith said that “hey, we’re the Chicago Blackhawks, right? So why not try to win?” (paraphrasing from memory, but pretty much direct quote).
I don’t blame players for wanting to win, and having that be their career goal, regardless of the size of the paycheck they are collecting. I don’t blame the Blackhawks for shedding Crawford, if it is for the right reasons (although if they really tried to get Matt Murray in a trade then it makes one wonder just how committed they were to Delia and Lankinen).
Again, I’m just confused. As a fan I don’t want to see stars/faded stars that it’s nice to take the kids to see once in awhile, and the rest of the team being guys being tested to see if they can even play in the league. If the rest of the roster was full of consensus budding NHL stars that need seasoning that would be one thing. I’m not thinking the Blackhawks are in that shape in their talent pool.
I’m a lifelong Chicagoan and the moniker “Second City” has always annoyed me, mainly because for most of my sports fan life there was a ring of truth to it – Chicago teams were second class.
I’ve been a rabid Blackhawks and Bears fan all my life (baseball and basketball not so much). I was only 7 when the Hawks won in 1961 and don’t remember it. But I was paying attention to sports and remember how excited I was when the Bears won in 1963. But then their star running back, Willie Gallimore, died in a car crash the next summer and that put a dampener on that, Even after drafting Gale Sayers and Dick Butkus in the same draft in 1965 – they never came close to winning again until they won the Super Bowl in 1985. But then the cheap McCaskey’s wouldn’t pay Wilbur Marshall and the dynasty was over before it barely begun. There were a lot of very lean years as a Bears fan between 1963 and the present.
Likewise with the Hawks. We came close a few times but always finished second or worse. We had some good teams but there always was one or two teams that were better – Second City USA. But again, lots of very lean years as a Hawks fan. It was made all the worse by Dollar Bill’s reign of cheapness.
But, here’s the long winded point – through all those lean years of Blackhawks and Bears fandom, what kept me going was watching individual players. It got to be that I cared more about Payton’s rushing records and Savard’s wizardry than I cared about team success because I knew the team wasn’t good enough to win the championship. That’s the way it has been for most years in my life of being a Bears and Hawks fan.
But then 2010/2013/2015 happened and it was different. I still wanted my favorite players to do well but I cared more about team success than player success because I knew the team was good enough to win the championship. It was a new experience and it was great.
But sometime after the 2015/16 season I knew the Hawks weren’t good enough and I went back to caring more about Kane’s scoring totals and Dach’s development than I did about team wins and losses. I still wanted the team to win but in my heart of hearts I knew there weren’t good enough to win the Cup.
That’s where I’m at going into these next few years. I’m going to enjoy watching individual players grow and succeed because it’s unrealistic to hope the team wins the Cup, And I’m OK with that – been there and done that most of my sports loving life.
Comparing HOSSA to seabrook… Brilliant comparison…Losing Seabrook last year had same consequence to team as did losing HOSSA, right?
More Koolaid needed…..
@Tab, I don’t understand your point. The four “Core” players left on the roster take up 40% of the allowed cap space. Isn’t that a relevant point in the discussion of the GM’s performance in replenishing the roster over the time those contracts were in effect? Didn’t the Kane and Toews contracts kick in the 2015-2016 season and Seabrooks a year later?
I’m not suggesting this is all on the players, but to not acknowledge the role those contracts played in the difficulty of replenishing the roster is wrong. Bowman made a lot of boneheaded moves and overreactions for sure, but whatever faults and mistakes he made over that time, as far as I can tell, not trying to extend the Cup window wasn’t one of them.
Over 120 posts? Really?
For the sake of brevity, I’ll adopt Perimeter Player’s statements re the coach, general manager and sad state of affairs.
Good evening to all. :)
“the player absolutely has accountability to the roster construction, just as a GM does” assumes the player has any way whatsoever in what the roster looks like. What is clear is none of the players on the Blackhawks’ roster have any say in the construction of the roster, so your response really doesn’t hold weight, Aurora. It isn’t old fashioned to point out that when the front office doesn’t care about the players’ wants and makes decisions in a vacuum, the players won’t be happy about it. And when the front office hands the coaching staff a subpar roster, of course the coaches are held accountable for it but at the end of the day one office – the GM – is the one who offers & signs contracts with players.
There is zero basis to hold Toews, Kane, Keith and/or Seabrook accountable for the demise of the dynasty. It’s 100% on Stan Bowman’s office drafting/developing and trading. Hate to break it to you, but the number support that 19 & 88 haven’t fallen off as much as some might claim… but the cast around them has turned into a pile of spare parts.
Tampa Bay just won the Stanley Cup. They had eight (8) players with a cap hit of >$5M on last season’s roster: Kucherov, Stamkos, Hedman, McDonagh, Point, Palat, Gourde & Johnson.
Steven Stamkos ($8.5M — 29-37-66 in 57 gms) and Tyler Johnson ($5M — 14-17-31 in 65 gms) did not match their usual productivity in the regular season and then were nowhere to be found in the playoffs (because of injury in the case of Stamkos). Johnson has since been put on & cleared waivers. Stamkos has struggled with his health off and on for a few years now.
And yet here they were winning a Cup.
Everyone wants to blame Kane, Toews & Seabrook’s contracts for the Blackhawks falling off. 1) they didn’t come up w/ the terms of their contracts, Bowman did. and 2) other teams have been able to survive/prosper with top-heavy payrolls.
The difference between teams like Tampa and the Blackhawks is pipeline strength and talent development. Tampa had Anthony Cirelli & Mikhail Sergachev on entry-level deals. Barclay Goodrow was making under $1M. The Blackhawks, meanwhile, are paying Zack Smith & Andrew Shaw more than $3M.
Now, the Hawks might be able to inject a youth movement in the next year or two with Dach, Boqvist & Ian Mitchell… but there are no top-six forwards coming in the next two seasons from inside this organization. We don’t know what Suter & Chalupa might be; maybe the org found another Kubalik? But if they did, would Colliton deploy them effectively to maximize their abilities? He didn’t put Kubalik on Toews’ line until Christmas and refused to put him on the first power play unit until the final couple months of the season. He might have approached 40 goals if Colliton had used him more effectively.
THAT is your problem, folks. The Blackhawks haven’t drafted/developed anything in more than five years (note the # of games Dach & Boqvist spent in Rockford) and they’re overpaying leftovers to compensate for their inability to produce NHL forwards through Rockford.
So young Tab has stated the Supreme Being is doing C minus work.
Unless you belong to a union, that kind of performance gets you fired.
Apologies to union members. But you know there is a ring of truth to it.
It is the weakness of the union, equally the same as it is a strength protecting the abused workers.
Regardless, I doubt there is a Supreme Being Union……or did Dollar Bill set one up back in the bad old days?
How else does one explain Bob Pulford and the Supreme Being?
Mark Lazerus interviewing Toews the morning after the Saad trade. Garbage. All Bowman said is we are going to play our youth. All of a sudden it is a full blown rebuild. WTF. RIDDLE ME this Hawks fans. Who did we lose that showed up in the playoffs this year of Cagg, KK, Saad, Crow and Maata? Maata may have been the best even over Toews and Kubs in the playoffs. Crawford was good a few games but had two really stinkers and one soft goal that cost another game. Yet, the Hawks could have taken the Vegas series to game 7 if Keith and Boquist did not suck, Kane, DCat, Saad, and Strome tried to score a goal. And we got zero productivity from Nylander or Caggs. KK was probably our second best on DEF.
Highmore and Maata had three goals. Kane, DCat, Strome all had two and Dach had 1. Keith was the worst defender, he absolutely sucked. I am not sure one of our Defenders plays for Vegas in playoffs. Think about that one. I put the Vegas loss on Keith, Kane, Dcat, and Strome. Kane was triple shifting and still could not score.
Next one the positives.
Vesey only 900k, 2mil for Fast and Namesikov. Hall for 8 mill too rich for my blood. One year deal means he wants to cash in the following year. He’s going after big numbers with Eichel.
Sign Anthanasiou he is young enough to keep for 5yrs.
The hawks still need to get rid of some bad deals: Keith, DeHaan, Shaw, Smith. One can only dream Seabs the albatross is somehow traded. I would have traded Keith over Maata but that is just me. I remember when Crow first came into the league, the Hawks were going down, we are going to waste Toews and kanes prime years said the naysayers, and they were loud and boistful. The next two years, VAN and Phoenix eliminated us in the first round. Thanks to Raffi. Than the shortened season where the Hawks were the only team that looked in shape and dominated the whole season.
HEre are this years postives:
Highmre/Kampf/Carp or someone else
We need three forwards, maybe one of Shaw, Suter, Nylander, Hagel, or a Vesey/Kahun/Galchenyuk, etc… can fill in those gaps.
two of these 3 have to step up to be a top Pair:
2nd pair: DeHaan/Murphy
3rd Pair Keith or Zadorov with Seabrook.
I remember Crow, per above, maybe Dalia or Lank can take the next step just like Crow, Raanta or Darling did.
I want to leave you with one last thought. Stan sucks in drafting rounds 3-7, I blame the scouts not Stan. Thank goodness other GM’s were awful to let Dcat and Saad slide to us or the Hawks would be in a huge world of hurt. I am not sure who is scouting International, they are rockstars, now we need someone better that can find the talent in Canada. RIDDLE ME this Hawks fans. Holy Hole in a Donut.
I have not posted in a while but I enjoy reading the posts. IMO Bowman has had his chance to keep this team at least competitive and he didn’t. Giving DCat $6 mil per is way over paying. Trading for and playing Nylander was a bigger mistake. I can continue on about Bowman but I won’t. He has no one else to throw under the bus if he fails again. Either the team will be successful in the next few yrs and Bowman will get the credit ( which he will deserve) or it will be a bust ( personally believe it will be a bust)which should cost him his job. Sport is a business , and Rocky should realize that you cannot charge top dollar for tickets for an inferior product. Once fans are allowed back in the building , consumers ( the fans) will determine if the hawks make a profit.if it returns to the days when the stadium is half empty he will have no one to blame but himself.
For all you Stan haters out there – what if you’re judging Stan a failure without knowing all the facts? Why did Rocky fire McD but leave Stan in place? Think about it.
Dear Perimeter Player:
Can you please answer the query by Mr. Ebony? This is an easy one to answer.
Thank you very much.
Tab – I mostly agree with your take that the GM builds the roster and having two guys making 10.5 doesn’t mean you can’t put a Cup team together however where I would part ways with your argument is the comparison to Tampa who just won their first Cup with their current core
When Tampa has done that two more times and had to rebuild two more times after having to lose players to the salary cap and trade away draft picks to win those two more Cups well then the comparison sticks
I don’t know Iceman, it might be a little tough for PP to explain Supreme Being having a boss.
ER, I cant stand Bowman but I am not a hater. He has done some good things and some real jack moves and headscratchers. Still wondering how we only got back Saad for Panarin and no first round pick from CBJ. REmeber it was bowman that traded back and still got Saad (2009).
B9, Kugs for a 5th rounder makes a lot of bad trades go away. Or shaw for 2 seconds one of which was Dcat. Leddy for Barker, Frolik for a bunch of nothings, Oduya for a few picks, Handzus for a 4th, Hartman for Beaudin, Murphy for Nik H, Not all is doom and gloom in the land of fairies and elves.
To me the Hawks have rockstar scouts Internationally and lack immensely for Canadian talent when it comes to 3-7 rounds. In trades, I am assuming the scouts give Stan key targets to ask for in trades, that is why i dont give Stan credit for the 5th for Kubs, the International Scouts gave Stan the right info like Panarin, Kempny and a host of others. Outside of TT and Panarin We could not afford, name one ex hawk you would like back on this team. Waiting, Waiting, Waiting, Golly Sarge, I can’t think of one.
God forbid the captain expresses concern on the teams direction. He’s only won 3 cups – what knowledge could he possibly have about winning. Furthermore I’d trust his assessment vs Stan or JC’s.
In the coming weeks, Bowman will skirt the coming questions about his lack of power forwards.
Respect needs to work in both directions. Toews and Keith have both publicly disrespected Stan in the past. I don’t blame him one bit for not feeling the need to treat them with kid gloves. Toews and Keith are Hall of Fame players and hopefully both of their numbers will be retired and hung in the United Center but neither one would be considered a deep thinker. I’d like Toews a lot more if he would keep his mouth shut, both on the ice to officials and off the ice to the news media.
Is Blowman done with trades before this upcomng season?
Why dont we all WAIT & see how this off season plays out until seasons opening game. Saad wasn’t worth money… Lazy ice capades boy.. Brought here to “ get Toews going”… Hands of stone and coughs up the puck in opposing zone ALL the time..Lots think he was SO GOOD due to others on team that are just as bad or worse.
Hawks have alot of DMen, so a few gunna be traded.. Lets see what happens next.
WHY didn’t we get more for SAAD ? Maybe cause HE aint worth it…
Saad isn’t worth a lot and that’s why we didn’t get much for him. He is preferably a third liner on a good team and is getting paid 6 million dollars. If anything we were lucky to get a serviceable dman back who lays the body and can be counted on in the d zone. Also might be a guy who plays with Boqvist and allows him to take some risks. And anyone on here who is saying Bowman missed on Boqvist and Beaudin so he is making this trade to compensate is a clown. They are both still 20 years old and have still both showed promise despite Boqvists development being rushed by injuries. No reason to not believe those two could and probably will be top 4 dmen in the future.
This also opened up a spot upfront for a kid. Maybe Evan Barrat or Brandon Hagel is tried out with Toews and Kubalik. I don’t know what the plan is for Barrat but would be nice to see him get a shot as well as guys like Kurashev, Hagel, Suter, etc.
I’ll be brief! When we had Kahun as a rookie, I thought he was a much smarter player and more productive than Saad. I would sign him and play him alongside Toews and Kubalik. I would sign Vesey, and play him with Kane and Dach. Strome and DCat can play with Nylander, and let the rest try to unseat Highmore, Kampf, and Carpenter.
Our D-Pairings would be:
Keith – Murphy
Zadorov – Boqvist
DeHaan – Mitchell
Seabrook (HC in Waiting)
Vesey signed with Leafs. Would like to see Haula with Toews and Kubalik and Anthanasiou with Dach and Kane.
Eventually we must see our young forwards play. We could have what fits already.
Would a team like to see Martin and Zadorov on the ice at the same time. They would think twice before wanting to take advantage of our players.
Wrap, that was my thought on that to when TB has had to trade 1sts and else to get players at deadline, each time after Cup win and on yrs like 14. Theres a difference in that way.
TB is like we were in 2013 or 2014. They wernt good enough to win in ‘their’ 2010 yr and finally won in ‘their’ 2014 yr, with not winning in their high record/standings yr liek we did in 2013. So they have a couple more yrs but salary cap should be taking players away from them and then were is their farm in a couple yrs from now/like ours did.
Not comparing TB to us just for what your saying/and not going against Tab.
TB is a good example though as they are the best team/roster wise since 2015. From 2016-2020 they are the best like we were from 2009-2015. Th difference is we won on the record breaking yr/TB BOS others didnt and we had a dynasty really 4 in 6 yrs.
Nonone done that since DET 95m payrolls in the mid 90s when every other team had what 25m payrolls. Yea that seems like they needed that advantage to win. Wonder how many time they win if payrolls were capped maybe none/well give them 1.
This is why I want top 5 skill draft players and not go into decade long middle area.
Then we do have the core to be a top 5 team again.
“what if you’re judging Stan a failure without knowing all the facts?”
Stan Bowman’s track record of transactions is all the facts. We have his complete track record on this site for precisely that reason – so fans can view it in its entirety and evaluate it completely.
At the end of the day, general managers are evaluated based on the performance of the team they build. For 5 years, Bowman has not built a championship-caliber team and we have watched players he has dealt away – Teuvo, Danault, Motte, etc – perform well elsewhere.
So I respectfully disagree w/ you, ER. We do know the facts re: Bowman’s successes and failures – they’ve played out on the ice.
TOR is still in cap trouble even after trading Jonsson – they still have Mikheyev and Dermott to sign and less than 500,000 to do it
Mikheyev is going to arbitration – maybe there’s a trade there – he’d fit nicely on the Hawks IMO – the Hawks could afford him – he just turned 26 so he’s a year older than KUB and he’s 6″ 2″ and 194 – pretty good skills
re: Wraparound – I can appreciate the critique of my comp w/ Tampa.
So let’s go back to Pittsburgh’s back-to-back w/ Crosby & Malkin almost a decade after their first championship. They were even more top-heavy and a better comparison to the Blackhawks (expensive goaltender, two forwards making a boatload of money, defensemen making a lot of money, etc). They resurrected their Cup chances by drafting & developing well and making good moves to impact their team on the ice.
Again, there are examples of teams winning with top-heavy rosters. That shouldn’t be an excuse for Bowman.
Just saw that Vesey signed with TO, fo $900K. What a steal. I like both Haula and Anthanasiou, but I just like Kahun. He was getting better as he gained more confidence with us. He would be a great fit and would not require more than $1M. I agree that we need more size, toughness, and grit too.
Here’s where I’m at with the forward lines for next year:
Kubalik – Toews – Kane
DeBrincat – Dach – _______
Nylander – ______ – Suter
Highmore – Kampf – Carpenter / Chalupa
Clearly what we do not have an answer to is Dylan Strome. Dave Pagnotta @ The Fourth Period tweeted Sunday that the Blackhawks are looking for a “middle-six forward” via free agency. I’m not sold that Strome is a 3C, but I could see him playing well between Nylander & Suter. So the question becomes, in the wake of the Saad trade, who is the second wing on the second line to compliment DeBrincat.
There’s our bigger body. Throw Janmark in between Nylander and Suter and how about Kurashev, Barrett or Hagel with Cat and Dach if we don’t add others.
JR – go check out how many bottom six forwards the Hawks have signed…. there’s nowhere to put the kids on the NHL roster right now. Carpenter, Smith & Shaw are roadblocks to guys like Hagel and Barrett getting a crack at the NHL roster. Hell, even Chalupa now has to wonder how/where he fits…
I do see the log jam. I am going with Smith being bought out or waived. For the health of Shaw and not not wanting to see him play I would hope he retires. If he is 100%, and only he knows, send him out there as his old self.
Wrap Mikheyev be nice replacement for Saad, but have to think moving the other 2 wingers was saying they want him, He likely fits in their top 6 but worth kicking the tires on for sure. They could also qualify for a buyout, maybe Kerfoot or something in 2nd window as they have a player elected arbitration on the books.
Peacefully to everyone in posts/comparisons to get the point across.
I like these ufa players you guys listed. I have always though Kubalik is better then Kahun/size withstand contact but I would like to have both.
Shawzer would have to be on a stretcher to no play when hes 100% ready/by him not the team. Crows dad said he said he wasnt ready yet and the team wanted to play before he said he was ready a couple yrs ago. When Shaw ready he will play or retire theres no other way. If he not ready 100% then ltir and we have 4 m.
Same with Smith buyout would be dumb/trade/or ltir. 65 on ltir as well as 15 and thats enough for any add/call up.