Report: Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane Ask For $12M
It’s believed Kane-Toews initial ask of CHI on extension is around $12M/yr each. They’ll end up lower but still could be $10M+ AAV players.
— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) June 26, 2014
If there are two guys to redefine new CBA era/rising cap, it’s Kane and Toews. Each has one year left on existing deal. Fascinating dynamic.
— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) June 26, 2014
Just remember who was one of the architects of the salary cap: William W. Wirtz m
The argument goes like this: Toews/Kane pushing for max deals goes beyond padding their own bank accounts – it’s the right thing to do from the Player’s Union perspective – “a rising tide lifts all boats”. While that is sound logic in the real world where hard salary caps don’t exist – it is not so pure of heart in the hard salary cap world of the NHL. I’ll copy/paste what I posted on another hockey message board:
There is always tension between Business and Labor. The CBA sets the parameters for coexistence. If the Players Union is driving top end players to push salaries to higher limits, then they are acting in bad faith to the spirit of the CBA because with a hard salary cap there is a maximum teams can spend on player salaries so for cap teams it’s just a different distribution of the salary cap – more for top end player and less for bottom end players. So the only reason the union has to drive salaries higher is to force the teams that don’t spend the maximum on player salaries to spend more on player salaries and some teams with internal budgets will then be forced to decide between fiscal responsibility and keeping their team competative. Essentially the union intention is to eliminate the salary floor or at least increase it and get it closer to the salary cap. That is against a principle of the CBA that the Union signed in “good faith”.
You would think that all of the salary cap sport players would take notice of Tim Duncan and the Spurs. Do you want to win or have money. You can’t have 2 players taking that much of the %. I wonder if they realize that they will force some of their teammates out with these contracts. The sad thing is Hawks will have to pay them whatever they want to avoid the public beat down. These are the same fans that can’t get over Chelios leaving.
Thanks, JBR, for being the first to crucify 19 & 88 for wanting to get paid like the superstars they are.
They deserve every penny of $10-11M each, and the cap increasing in the coming seasons makes that affordable for a deep organization.
Tab, I’m with you. They deserve top dollar. Great players get paid and they are the ones who should. Time and money is a lot to invest in anyone, but Kane and Toews are in their prime. If there are hockey superstar players to lock up, its these guys. It is easy for us to say take less money, get better players around you, win more. How about all the crap Toews and Kane go through to make players around them better? They drive the bus too.
While I feel sports sometimes gets out of whack with the players who earn “max” deals, these two unquestionably deserve it.
If these boys get over $10M/yr.
Hawks will soon become Pittsburgh Penguins- West… best team/favorite almost every year… but lacking the right # of blend/character/role guys to deliver in the PO’s!!!
Just my Opinion!!!
Sure they are “worth it” but tickets are now at the point where I cannot sell my 9-gamers I cannot attend without taking a loss on the secondary market. There’s a bubble burst coming.
If these two really are demanding 12M each I guess they care more about greed than winning. I guess once you have 8M a year you just can’t make it without 4 more.
Also if the bubble does burst and we go back to half full arenas, their currently lucrative advertising deals dry up too. At a certain point, you ask so much you kill the business and nobody wins.
Agreed, no two players in sports are more deserving than these two…and really, the last contract they both signed was CHI friendly. The key is Bowman understanding where the CAP is and where it is heading based on accurate revenue projections. Based on EVERYTHING that came out last week, the Hawks can afford two $10 million players and still have the “other” players that Wall is talking about. But after running the numbers this morning, and looking at the CAP projections for the next 5 years, and the crucial Hawk re signings coming up, $10, maybe $10.5 is the limit the Hawks can go and still be able to field a deep, championship lineup. So no need to worry about such big numbers, as long as Bowman can get them to accept $10.
They don’t make 8 Million a year now from the Blackhawks. Additionally, living in Chicago means you get taxed out the aaaa. Bill Wennington has said many times that Michael Jordan used his take home pay from the Bulls to pay his taxes…his endorsements are what he lived off of. Yes, his pay from the Bulls and his endorsements are obviously more than what Towes or Kane would earn; but let’s think about that.
I just cannot accept the mentality that these players should take less because they love Chicago and want to win. They deserve the contracts they are about to sign.
I think they both sign for 5yrs 8.3mil a year. Are the worth 10mil?? Of course. Would I pay that?? Of course.
But
They know they will make more in marketing in Chicago than a club that would offer 10mil/yr. Plus they want to win. 16.6 vs 20 annually allows for a Shaw, bicks or Saad type player to stay on the roster. Those players win championships. They get that.
Espo, its not about Greed for Toews and Kane…they both took Hawk-friendly deals the last time around so that the core could remain in tact, and they could win more Cups. And as team mates with not near the same talent or value signed for similar money, NEITHER OF THEM SAID A WORD, like many other players would have. And its more than just Toews and Kane here…this is the ENTIRE NHL UNION pushing back at a league that shut them down not too long ago. These 2 contracts are SO MUCH MORE than just deals for Toews and Kane…the whole league is WATCHING and waiting. Both men are being put in this position by external forces…so they don’t need Hawk fans ragging on them for being greedy, which just is completely false.
Where did it say 19/88 were “demanding,” EspoForever?
Guaranteed, the minimum either player will take is $10…perhaps more, so if you are doing calculations, work off of these numbers.
The Blackhawks will be fine. As Tab has said, if JT & PK accept matching deals of 8 @ $80 Million ($10 Mil per) which is not only very reasonable for 2 young superstars who have already won 2 cups together, but also a likely outcome based on their initial asking price as being reported. They get paid $6.3 Million now, so that would be an addition of $3.7 Million each or $7.4 Million total…which (as I said in the prior post) is about the savings they will get from Dahlbeck, Clendening, and Johns vs Oduya and Roszival in 2015-16 and Seabrook in 2016-17 (including the young guys RFA raises). Which goes to show how important it is to have good young talent ready to step in on a yearly basis.
That doesn’t include the Cap going up, or Versteeg’s $2.2 Million. Bowman knows how to work the cap and when he does move pieces he consistently gets good future pieces in return. He has known these extensions were coming, it’s no surprise, and yet he paid CC, Bickell, Bollig, and traded for Versteeg’s $2.2 Million last year. He has a plan, and it doesn’t include the Hawks sucking or dismantling the team. If he can move Campbell’s contract without paying part of it, and get something for Scott, then this should be a cakewalk by comparison.
Yes, Sr. Brad…the minimum they will take is 10. I’m right there. Anything under is gravy for the Hawks…over might be pushing it, but I think 10 is fair on both.
Let em go
Pay them
Look, it’s a business from both sides. I run a company myself and learned a long time ago you can’t take comp and salary demands/requests personally. The market dictates what you can/will pay and the overall opportunity drives the employees decision on what they will accept. Situation here is the market “value” of 88/19 is based on salary + endorsements + oppty to win with high class org. Hawks “comp” strategy is same while balancing overall run costs and ability to put competitive product on ice.
My guess is these players are smart enough to consider the entire picture and will settle for $10M x 10 or so (in view of oppty costs of going elsewhere.) That said, in sports you never know as ego can sidetrack logic if it gets out of whack.
And again Peter, they are actually workable numbers for the Hawks, including signing Saad to a bigger, longer term contract. But we just don’t have room past $10.5…this is exactly why Wall and I were against the deal Bowman gave Crawford…and we are both Crawford fans. Some fans still rag on the Bickell deal, but that was a bargain for the Hawks…we need his size, strength and finesse and without him, and Hossa aging, we would have had to reserve AT LEAST $6.5 million to replace what Bickell brings…and if any questions his regular season (with 2 knee surgeries), just look at what Bickell did again in the playoffs…even during the King series, he was outstanding, even though he didn’t have the numbers to show it.
As HawksNation said, Bowman has a plan…he’s a smart guy.
“and will settle for $10M x 10 or so” (Negzz)
Under the new CBA the limit is 8 years. Done so teams can’t stretch contracts out to infinity and beyond anymore to lessen the cap blow.
LET EM GO!!
PAY THEM!!
NHL needs to reconsider guaranteed money in contracts.
Ask Boston about Savard or Philly about Pronger.
Tab I agree that these players are worth it and deserve it, but JBR’s points are a reality nonetheless. Its hard to imagine that one report says Kane is demanding the Hawks add a quality Center for him to play with, and the next report says he wants 12 million. Those two ideas do not seem to work in unison.
Scottie P, neither one of those “reports” actually happened. If I recall correctly, what was reported was that Kane might give a discount if the Hawks brought in a top 2nd line C for him. What’s now being reported is that both Toews & Kane’s initial ask was $12 Million per year, which was no doubt submitted by their agents. You’ll notice that in neither case being reported is Kane “demanding” anything. As far as the $12 Million, it’s the first ask not the last, I think Tab is close to the truth at 8 years – $80 Million for each player, which is $10 Million per year….and who knows, if the Hawks really do have a top C on the hook, maybe PK & JT will take a bit less to make it happen?
could call ScottieP
So it kinda makes the demand for 2nd C- silly- or just more bad Press…
After all- much more likely- Kane is out for Kane’s wallet…. has 2 cups, Conn Smythe, endorsements… ALL without a 2nd C on the team… So why would he think he needs one now… All he is missing is Title Of Highest paid player in NHL!!! Albeit- until the next Big Contract…
On a Positive note!!! If they get $10M+… that is going to hurt Avs w/ Stastny/ROR… and other teams needing to sign Young UFA studs…
$10mm is fair. The longer the contract the better. Who knows, 4 years from now $10mm may be a bargain. $12mm is a lot when you consider each player would control 16% of a $75mm Cap. A very high percentage for one player let alone two.
The question becomes, if SB & RW will pay one but not both $12mm….who would it be.
Bottom Line: These guys are better together than apart as the faces of the franchise.
No, it’s not a good call, Wall…it’s actually a complete mis-characterization of what is actually happening.
Regardless…
Mike- has an accurate Call… if these guys get close to $12M… they will be Eating 32% of Cap space… as of now… which IS WAY too much of the Cap… Which Equates to Penguins West (as I stated earlier)… Will be very hard to be SC contender w/ 2 players sucking 32% of Cap-imo… At least in Years 1-2… Now if Cap goes up several Mill… quickly… perhaps they can stay among top 5 teams… then again… Guys of Bickell’s skill level will be asking for $7M+ in 2-3 years… if top guys are getting 12M and Cap is 76M+
“Guys of Bickell’s skill level will be asking for $7M+ in 2-3 years… if top guys are getting 12M and Cap is 76M+”
This… we dont need the Dave Bolland’s (as much as he was a good Hawk) of the world making 7M per….
8/80… make it happen.
Hawks4nation i didnt say i know that either of these reports are true. Straighten out your thong and calm down. I am just saying that the conflicting reports do not make sense.
Tab, is there a way for the Hawks to sign Stastny in FA (I am guessing 5 years at $7 million/season) and still be able to afford Toews, Kanes and Saad’s new contracts as well? I would appreciate, when you have the time, to work something plausible out with that scenario. Stastny and Hossa are essentially family and his style of play is exactly that which we play.
Could it be done by trading Oduya, Rozy and Versteeg/Bollig now, and then promoting from within? Dahlbeck and Clendening during this season, along with Morin and Nordstrom, and then moving Seabrook the following year and promoting Johns full time?
Tab, I believe that they should be paid well. They DESERVE to be paid a ton. If this was baseball I would say fine. I’m more criticizing superstars in general who say winning is the most important thing. Should two players be paid $24 out of a $60 million cap number? They want almost double their salary? Did the cap go up double since they signed the last contracts?
For everyone who says they signed a CHI friendly contract last time. Did the Hawks just pocket that $$? No, they spent it on other players. I’m fine with TEAM friendly deals in order to spend it on other players. These “Home Town Discount” deals are a joke. They are taking a discount to have a better chance to win.
Wall, that’s why $12 million simply doesn’t work and $10 million does…but if you go over the numbers (with Morin, Nordstrom, TT, Dahlbeck, Clendening and Johns all in the mix over the next 2 seasons) it does…it also gives us a SURPLUS by my math of nearly $5 million in CAP space if the CAP reaches what it has been projected for in 2015-16. Which is enough room for a real 2nd line Centre if desired.
JBR, there is no doubt that Toews, Kane and Bickell all took less to stay with the Hawks with their last contracts. What more do you want from these guys? NHL players are a special breed. For the most part, they are a humble, incredibly tough, and hardworking group that DON’T COMPLAIN, unlike just about every other sport.
Bowman has been preparing for $10 million each for the past 3 years…he’s ready to deal with this based on the CAP going up…the NHL revenue numbers recently released guarantee this, and it doesn’t even take into account the new TV deal with Rogers going into effect next year. So the CAP being approx. $75 million by 2016 is very realistic.
Question is who leaked this information. Hawks, doubtfully, JT & PK agent maybe, but I´ll bet its players union. They want somebody to be first to breach 10 milion per year under the cap space. They want to sacrife JT & PK for greater good.
It will put extremly preasure on them and they can expect to get some boooo in the future from the crowd. It will lead one way and one way only, in the end of their contract they will sting as Lecavalier did in Tampa.
re: Brad’s question about Stastny – first off, he’ll probably get closer to 7 or 8 years than 5, but you’re $7M number looks close to right.
Is there a scenario where the Hawks could sign Stastny and keep 19, 20 & 88?
Just adding Stastny at $7M to the currently-signed team puts the Hawks roughly $2.4M over the projected $71.1M cap w/out a backup goaltender or 13th forward, and both Rozsival and Rundblad on the NHL roster. If the Hawks added Stastny at $7M for the 2014-15 season, they would need to cut roughly $5M from the currently-signed roster (meaning not including Morin or Smith) to make it fit under the cap.
If the Hawks trade Oduya w/out retaining cap or bringing back an NHL roster player, that saves money. If they demote Versteeg & Bollig (path of least resistence), that saves some more. However, then you’re looking at Rundblad-Rozsival playing every night (w/ only 6 defensemen on the NHL roster) and only 10 forwards.
So let’s say the Hawks recall Rasmussen, Teravainen and Dahlbeck to fill some roster space, as they’re probably the three most likely recall candidates of the currently signed players in the system (for the sake of this argument). It’s also worth noting that Johns’ cap hit if approx $170k more than Dahlbeck this season.
I like Stastny, but I think we need to keep in mind that the most likely long-term scenario is Teravainen being your 2C in Chicago. If that’s the case, we’re looking for a short-term remedy. Spezza has 1 year remaining (which becomes increasingly crucial if 19 & 88 are indeed looking at 8-figure cap hits), while Kesler has 2 years left.
In this scenario, you would have 7 defensemen, 12 forwards and one goaltender at roughly $70.5M.
To sign a player off the street for $7M, a veteran would have to go WITH Oduya. And even then, you’re looking at a pretty young 4th line and brutal bottom defensive pair.
to the comment that Kane & Toews took a home-town discount on their last deal – LOL… no they didn’t.
Brad- they can make the #’s work… that is the EASY part… the hard part is assembling the team around the 32%/Cap guys AND WINNING… while the guys you mentioned may turn out to be better than the 2012/2010 supporting casts… it is just as likely/probable (more probable) that most of them won’t be… and if they don’t pan out???
You are strapped into NOT being able to “BUY or ADD” any other pieces!!! and then you end up rotating Prospects… Until you find the next 20/65… an by then… it’s time to pay the 20/65’s their next BIG raise… because Frolik’s are now worth $4.5M…
and then It’s Penguins West!!!
Why are we talking about Paul Stastny?
Because ESPN/TSN insider Pierre LeBrun wrote today:
“The No. 1 center on the UFA market continued to generate a lot of interest on Day 2 of the window to talk to free agents, and as of late Thursday afternoon around 15 NHL teams had communicated in one way or another with Paul Stastny’s camp led by agent Matt Keator.
We reported Wednesday that the St. Louis Blues were among the inquisitive teams, add the Winnipeg Jets and Chicago Blackhawks to the long list of teams that have checked in on Stastny camp. The Jets could certainly use a top-six center and their interest in Stastny is said to be quite legitimate. The Blackhawks have spoken to Vancouver about Ryan Kesler in their search for a No. 2 center. Imagine Stastny centering Patrick Kane? Problem is, not really sure how the Hawks could afford Stastny under their cap when you consider that the Stastny camp is telling clubs they don’t intend on taking a paycut from the $6.66 million a year the Team USA Olympian was making on his expiring contract.
For the Blackhawks, the more people you talk to around the league the last few days, the more you hear about Chicago making calls and looking at a number of different scenario. They might very well be an active team here over the next seven-to-10 days. “
Pay them…pay these men their maaaney.
Say this report is true and they both are asking for 12 mil and will not come down. As Tab said, these guys did not take a discount last time, so say they will not again. Does letting one walk become a consideration for anyone?
@ Scottie P – no, letting one walk is not a consideration. These guys are cornerstones of a dynasty.
But finding a new home for Versteeg, Bickell, Leddy, Bollig and probably Sharp/Seabrook in the next 12-18 months is happening.
Where the Penguins have failed is they wasted every draft pick between Staal and Maatta. You cannot have top-end superstars making stupid bank w/out organizational depth to support turning over the bottom 6/blue line pair every 2-3 years. Bowman is trying to put the Hawks in a place where they can do that. Also, w/ the cap going up with the new TV deals, the number 19 & 88 get will be easier to stomach the further we get from signing day.
With that said, I’m standing by 8/$80M
Which one??
Tab, agreed. Whatever the number, the longer the better.
10 mil per that makes both kane and toews making more than crosby. as much as i hate him neither player should be making more than him. Im hoping for 9 mil each.
9 mil. That is a 50% raise of your last salary. Very significant, and now you are in the top 5 of paid players in the league. You want to be #1 paid player? Go win 2+ MVPs like Sid and Ovi did.
Or help lead your team to two Stanley Cups in two years.
Anyone who thinks OVI is better than Kane or Toews is someone I vehemently disagree with. Finally, how valuable is Crosby to his team…I actually think Toews and Kane are more valuable. Best and valuable are different and I am not all that sure I would take anyone in the NHL today over Toews. It will take 10 million a year to sign these guys…that’s fair.
Also, I just think like others have said this deal will actually be good for the Blackhawks after year 2 due to the increasing Cap.
The $9M barrier has been the ceiling for a few years, and this is Pat Brisson’s chance to once again stake his claim to being the agent that reps the best players on the planet by taking the bar up to the next level w/ 19 & 88. I have no issue w/ the two making $10M a year and think they’re worth every penny. They’re both in their prime, have 2 rings and each has a Conn Smythe on his resume. Lock em up and draft your ass off to sustain the excellence around them.
But he doesnt rep the best players on the planet in this case so they cant get paid like them. I love Kane and Toews, but a line featuring them, or a line featuring Ovi and Sid, well lets just say the production hasn’t exactly been even.
Sid has won everything these guys have save one cup (though he has been to 2) and more MVPs, WAY more points, and is the captain of team Canada. I am not saying JT and Kane are bad, ok. I think they are top 5-10 players in teh league and hence deserve to be paid as so.
I nice try, Scottie P – BUT HE DOES!
CAA reps Crosby, Malkin, Kopitar, Duchene, Giroux, Tavares, Mackinnon, both Sedins AND Kane & Toews.
So the same agency would be on record for Crosby, Malkin, Toews & Kane. Malkin signed after Crosby for more money than Crosby. So wipe twice & flush your logic
Scottie P “Straighten out your thong and calm down.”
What the heck are you talking about? Go read my post again, I just said what the reports actually were, no where did I get heated at all. It was a calm straight forward post that was merely correcting some errors in your comment. So maybe you should calm down, instead of talking smack to me for no reason?
no i am not saying he doesnt rep the best guys tab. Read. I am saying that in this scenario he isnt repping the best players in the league. Johnny and Kaner are not producing like crosby. So comparing those players to him is a bit jaded. Even Malkin has had a 100 pt season and won a Hart trophy. I just do not think that they are of the same cap space VALUE, as neither have even received and mVALUABLEp vote. they ar great players and deserve to be paid as great players. But to say that they should be paid as the top 2 players in the entire league implies that they are the top 2 most valuable players in the league, and I do not believe that to be true.
Hawks4nation, my bad. Misinterpretation.
“that’s why $12 million simply doesn’t work and $10 million does…but if you go over the numbers (with Morin, Nordstrom, TT, Dahlbeck, Clendening and Johns all in the mix over the next 2 seasons) it does” (Sr. Brad)
Well said….and we all know that Versteeg ($2.2 Mill), Roszival ($2.2 Mill), and Bollig ($1.25 Mill) are expendable/replaceable with cheaper/younger players and Bowman has shown that he can move absolutely anybody if he wants to, and still get a decent return.
Scottie – again, you’re missing the point. But thanks for telling me to read.
The cap goes up. Player salaries should, too.
Now is the time, post-lockout, for the PLAYERS to make a move up in salaries. There’s a boatload of money flowing into the league, and superstars want to inch the average higher. This is the first opportunity for two of the top players in the game to make a mark on the game and reach a new benchmark. The thought that we’d use Crosby’s deal – which was signed before the lockout fwiw – as the ceiling forever is hilarious, naive and ridiculous. At some point, somebody has to make MORE MONEY so EVERYONE ELSE can make MORE MONEY.
Toews & Kane asking for $12M each is Brisson’s way of letting Bowman know that the they will be the gold standard moving forward. And they should be. They don’t have Hart Trophies at home, but they have 2 rings and a Conn Smythe each and are worthy of carrying the torch for bigger contracts on behalf of the players.
If you don’t understand the politics in asking for more money, I can’t help you.
HN4A– the #’s will work… but really anything over $10M- puts all the pressure on SB to be incredibly good/lucky drafting these kids… and the Kids MUST be good-great in their roles…
Tab- “and draft your ass off”- true- and easier said then done…
Once again, $8.75-$9.25M – Hawks/SB will really have a chance to challenge for SC’s…
9.25-10M… odds begin to drop
10M+…. Hawks=Penguins2.0 will be tough to sustain REAL SC challenging teams.
I really Hope 88/19 see it my way… if it is about Money… they have a right to get what they can… if it’s about winning… they have the right to take less… and give SB a little ammunition to field a better team.
Toews and Kane are going to get paid, period. And the team doing the paying will be Chicago. So Bowman has difficult task ahead of making all the financial pieces come together while somehow maintaining a Cup competitive team. Toews, Kane and Keith will retire as Blackhawks and go into the Hall as Blackhawks. That is the lesson learned by Rocky versus the stewardship of his father. It is probably going to be harder to win another Cup or two in Chicago given the salaries to be commanded by 19 and 88, but that’s life in the big city. Bowman is the right guy in charge to navigate these very tricky and difficult waters. Sharp will surely be gone in another year and I wouldn’t recommend Seabrook buy property in Chicago either.
Kane would get 12 million in Buffalo no problem, ditto Toews in Winnipeg. Arguments about a “a smaller market” in Buffalo are bogus because the draw there is Southern Ontario and 8 million rabid hockey nuts, Winnpeg is a smaller market but Toews would have the keys to the city, and there is the issue of friends and family and hometown familiarity…Bottom line is I think they get the 12 million each or something very very close. We have great prospects up and coming and ready and room to move out some $’s , Rosival, Oduya, Bollig, Versteeg, even Bickell and eventually some others. God help us if we lose one of them or both cause we would be Blackhawks circa 2004. 12 million cut the check and get it done…no worries about Penginos 2.0 …we have drafted well and will continue to do so. Hang on for the upcoming ride, going to be an interesting run starting Friday and thru to the end of the day on the first of July.
Wall, with the draft tomorrow, have you seen the history of the #27 overall pick??? BRUTAL…the best draft selection in this spot was Scott Gomez in 1990-something…yikes…why not take some chances with this pick, since historically it doesn’t pan out.
I think these boys want all they can get, who can blame them. I agree both can get $12mm in other cities. But I think these guys are smart too. An organization committed to winning as well as to the “core”. A city where both can make huge endorsement money. But Lord Stanley’s Cup overrides everything to these guys. And, by the way, Lord Stanley get you national endorsements. So my feeling is they will sign for $9.5mm to 10.5mm and will be happy. What we need to hope is that they sign for 6-8 years
Mining Man… Tick-tock!!!!!!!!
The concern of becoming Pittsburgh 2.0 is highly valid. Hence why I am grateful for the 2 Cups. It will indeed be very hard herein out to be a true Cup contender each season. The margin for error in personnel decisions, to include international signings and the draft is very thin.
Bowman faces the spectacle of a team in need of a few things in the immediate… Hawks limped for months this past season and were very fortunate to survive until the Conference Finals. So there are clearly some needs that have to be addressed that go beyond praying that a few kids can ride in on a white horse and be instant answers and pieces to a team chemistry. Plus a future Hall if Famer and HUGE cog to the two Cups in the form of Hossa is in decline mode. We tend to ignore that sobering reality to our detriment folks.
I have faith in Bowman, but in the land if the friggin salary cap his job is becoming exponentially tougher. Toews and Kane aren’t going to operate a charity on behalf of the Blackhawks, nor should they. They each are going to get $11-12 m per us my guess. And keep in mind also that the NHLPA is going to place enormous pressure in each of its upper echelon player members to fight for every last contract drop, especially in light of the most recent and bitter showdown with the league that resulted in a long holdout with nobody making money. This is why also I think it is a joke for some to think Statsny is going to leave money on the table now that he is a free agent. He’s going to play for the team that blows him away with a contract folks, meaning he could likely wind up with a bottom feeder team with huge cap space.
For all those saying they aren’t worth it, think back to where this franchise was before Toews and Kane arrived. These 2 aren’t the only reason the Hawks are were they are today but get real without Toews and Kane this team isn’t a 2 time champion!
I assumed they would get around 10 million a season hopefully the Hawks can get them around that number instead of 12 million which is a BIG number.
Stan said they will be re-signed. Toews and Kane heard the Brinks truck backing up and wanted to know how serious he was. They won’t get 12 here. But this is a negotiation. It’s business. And to those complaining about ticket prices. I would be more than happy to take some off your hands. The Hawks are a cap team. And a cap team in high demand. Forget about making money on the secondary market. As far as I’m concerned the secondary market is part of the reason I won’t get season tickets until the Hawks are terrible.
Kane and Toews’ salary isn’t the direct reason why prices go up. Demand is why they go up. If the money isn’t spent on these 2, it will be spent on other players. The overall spending remains the same until the Hawks are bad. Let me know where those seats are. Totally serious, I’ll take em off your hands
Fine tab, whatever. Give em 12 mil. But giving someone 9 million a year is hardly disrespectful. Hopefully they do not cripple us even if they have the right to do so.
The biggest difference between PIT & CHI is the Hawks are inking their superstars with a long-term CBA and A LOT of money flowing into the league. Crosby, Malkin (Fleury & Letang) signed before the cap froze and lost valuable assets because they were top heavy. Injuries also hurt them a lot.
The Hawks have drafted significantly better than PIT in the last 5-6 years, which is the other critical difference in situations. Between Staal & Maatta, the Pens were a doughnut
Remember how Toews was a highly visible representative of the NHLPA during the lockout? Remember how bitter and contentious the latest round of labor negotiations were for this league? Kane, Toews, Statsny and every other primetime player isn’t going to leave money on the table folks. I fully anticipate both Toews and Kane checking in with a new AAV of $11 million plus. And I suspect if Saad has a good season next year his next contract is going to be uppity.
Wait Scottie. Let me try and wrap my head around this. Kane and Toews start the process at 12 million knowing full well they won’t get all they’re asking. Tab has stated that he wouldn’t have a problem of a 8 for 80 million. Meaning 10 mil per. You’re saying 9 million a year.
Are we really saying an extra 1 million dollars per year per player is going to hamstring this team cap wise when the cap is projected to keep going up? If 2 million a year screws this team, they were screwed anyways.
Pierre LeBrun @ESPN_Lebrun
#Canucks deal Kesler to #Blackhawks for Leddy, Kruger, 2014 1st, 2015 2nd. #confirmed
about 2 hours ago
As long as T&K re-sign for long term (7 or 8 years), and as long as they stay healthy for the term of the contract, and as long as the salary cap keeps going up – then $10M+ is going to be manageable after a couple years, and a good bargain for the last half of the contract. It probably means a couple lean years in 2015/16 and 2016/17 where the Hawks won’t have the depth needed to be the best team but after that they should be back on top providing Stan doesn’t make any crippling blunders.
Still going to be exciting times ahead even if we don’t get everything just the way we want it now.
Chrisb – ya got your crystal ball working for ya? It’s not nice to play with raw emotions.
Chrisb…can’t seem to find your reference anywhere…would say thats a big deal if true and a good one for us
I’m not seeing this trade,…sounds like someone is blowing smoke!
Don’t know if that is a REAL trade….
but it would be a fair one… and in the long run … a very good- if not great trade for Nucks… they would be getting a lot — and a lot younger…
we shall see if true- or not… but fair.
My guess is that Chrisb Kritter is trolling. Drops a bombshell and then disappears. Uh huh.
Don’t cry wolf, with ‘confirmed trade’ talk please.
I am not seeing that trade on the wire…..and I hope it is not true. Although that trade would seem fair on the surface, it cuts into Cap space by $1mm and leaves a hole on Defense to fill.
In this case I think Leddy’s spot is tough for the Hawks to fill in 14-15 than filling Oduya’s spot. Leddy has his detractors, at times me included. He is a bit expensive for a perennial 3d pairing. That said, he kept the 3d pairing stable with a revolving door as a partner.
Losing Oduya is actually not as bad for the Hawks as losing Leddy. Pairing Clendening with Hammer seems a more acceptable option. But who would anchor the 3d pairing if Leddy is dealt? Rosival….no way. would have to acquire a decent 3d pairing D man, cutting further into the Cap.
By the way, dealing Rosival will not be easy. At best the Hawks would probably have to retain some of his salary.
Early buzz has Vancouver has a major player for the #1 over all pick.
Just speculation here, but maybe a 3 way deal?
Chi- Kesler
Van- #1 overall, 2 Prospects (choose from Hayes’ rights/Danault/McNeill/Nordy/Morin/Ross)
FLA- #6 overall, #27 overall, Oduya, and a future pick (Chicago 2015 2nd perhaps?)
So basically w get Kesler for a 1st, a 2nd, Oduya, and 2 mid-tier prospects.
FLA gets 2 picks, defense help and a futur pick
VAN gets their Center to replace Kesler with the #1 and 2 prospects to work with
seems fair to me.
Tim, again, may sound fair but not sure that is feasible long term. Cap hit implications and losing some less expensive serviceable prospects.
As wall says Hawks don’t want to become Pens 2.0. Hawks are gonna need their picks and better of their prospects in 15-16 and beyond.
I think that’s why the Sharp for Kesler is the desired deal among bloggers….as unlikely as it is to happen. The bottom line there is by trading forward for forward there are no other pieces to replace. Further, this deal would actually ADD to the Hawks Cap space, even if you threw in a couple of “mid” level prospects.
Obviously other moves would be made. Versteeg and Rosy would need to be moved. You have 10/19/81, 20/Kes/88, 29/28/65, 52/16/11, 2/7, 4/Clenny, 8/Dahlbeck with Rundblad and Rasmussen as scratches. Even with resigning 11 and 28 that should come in under the cap. If Van wants to deal, maybe they keep like 1M of the cap hit or something. and if Morin gets moved, they can sign a cheap 4th liner.
Then you can worry about moving Sharp or Seabrook next offseason when the new deals for 88/19/20 would kick in.
fwiw, Chris Kuc of the Tribune just tweeted that his sources indicate the Hawks are “listening” on Sharp.
key word: “listening.” different than “shopping” – but even w/ 10’s agent claiming otherwise, I don’t think Sharp is untouchable or even off the table if someone calls Bowman right now
A ways up there, Tab mentioned: finding a new home for Versteeg, Bickell, Leddy, Bollig and probably Sharp/Seabrook in the next 12-18 months is happening.
I’m not happy about most of them, but I’m in agreement. I would like to commnt on Bickell
Man, I loved when he came up. 2010 he took advantage of his sparse time on the ice and did it with a bit of a mean streak–nobody got in his way. 2010-11 was a decent true-rookie year. 2011-12 was not stellar. 2012-2013 mediocre again… until the playoffs–Showed up HUGE. And he got paid. Good for him and his agent. 2013-14… garbage. Playoffs, and he decides he’s going to play again, at least for the first 2 series. He made some comment during the beginning of this recent playoff run that he cannot play at this intensity all season, which is fine, but at least make the team have to put some consideration into you being on the ice. Put a little effort into getting open. Pull the trigger on that mean-ass wrister as often as you can.
My point: Bickell has a ton of talent, but is extrememly unreliable. Not sure what GMs around the league think of him but if nobody bites with anything good, happily let him go anywhere willing to take his $4M salary (except inside the division since he may turn into the superstar he can be in the playoffs–but not banking on it).
I am hoping that Kane and Toews will sign for $10m per year or preferably $8.75-$9.25m per year. Pawel Datsyuk is at $7.5m for the next 3 years and is not unhappy with his contract.