Report: Patrick Kane Being Investigated

The Buffalo News published a report on Thursday morning that Hamburg (NY) police are investigating an incident allegedly involving Patrick Kane.

Sources with knowledge of the investigation apparently shared that with The Buffalo News, but then anyone who might have direct knowledge of the situation offered a “no comment” when pressed for information. As the story notes, Hamburg has 20 days to accept or reject the Freedom of Information request for from The Buffalo News.

Update: WKBW in Buffalo has reported the incident involves Kane and a woman at a bar in Evans, NY.

Update: Outlets in Buffalo are reporting that this is a sexual assault investigation.

Update: the Blackhawks released the following statement:

“We are aware of the matter and are in the process of gathering information. It would be inappropriate to comment further at this time.”

Update: On Thursday afternoon, The Buffalo News is reporting that a prosecutor has been assigned to the Kane matter.

Also read: How To Hire A Private Detective.


260 thoughts on “Report: Patrick Kane Being Investigated

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:07 am

    Here we go again. Hopefully this is nothing serious.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:15 am

    well – here is another way to get under cap….

    Void- Kane’s deal- if he really did something stupid!!! wtf- Kane!!!

    Another rumor- Russian D man from Panarin’s/Ti-nov’s team is supposedly heading to NHL… Guy looks like he was a stud – albeit- he is 33 yrs/old… but Captained some WC teams!!! With that on Resume… I am guessing he will fair well in NHL for some team… hope it’s NOT Kings!!!

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:15 am

    Hope your right ERNIE. We have lost enough good players already!!!!

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:20 am

    Our own little NFL man.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:50 am

    Wall, man I give. Who you talking about jumping the pond?

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:15 am

    Ilya Nikulin? Panarin played for Kazan Ak-Bars for 12 games in 11/12 as a 19 yr old. I saw something on the HF boards about him wanting to come over

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:16 am

    Guys got sick talent, thought he grew up put this kind of crap behind him? Who knows could be nothing no need to jump to conclusions just yet. Boy that D man would be sick, runblad is scary, not sold on daly. we’re still in cap hell and Krugs is not signed, so I doubt we could sign that Russian anyway.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:22 am

    Likely happened at a place called Dock at the Bay.(if it happened at all).

    It’s a big summer Hang out along Lake Erie. I spent many a Sunday afternoon there throughout my 20s. Good bands, drinks, music, women in bikinis. One of those places where you get there at 2 or 3 in the afternoon and stay there until the sun goes down around 9.

    So here we go with this saga.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:32 am

    The very fact that everyone is saying no comment, and that the police have been given a dag order, and that the DA’s office is saying we do not comment until a person has been charged, leads mean to believe this might be a bit more serious than expected. Kaner needs to grow up a ditch his buddies who lead him to trouble. We all grew up with THOSE guys, we just avoid them! Laugh out loud hope this blows away and isn’t serious like Richards deal in LA

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:46 am

    Leave it to Wall.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:49 am

    Dock of the Bay is an outstanding place and I’m sure many a young guy in their 20’s (and beyond) have gotten into some “trouble” there.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:55 am

    Kinda puts the angst of worrying about getting Kruger re-signed into perspective.

    I’m thinking that even if this ends up being no fault of Kane, maybe Patrick should make it a life decision to never ever go into a bar again. People can life very happy and fulfilling lives without hanging out or going to parties where large quantities of alcohol are consumed. Priorities need to be set and discipline maintained – by him personally.

    Or he can continue to live his life as he chooses – lest it be misunderstood that I’m suggesting it isn’t in his rights to do so.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:56 am


    (oh for an edit function)

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:57 am

    I blame Pat Foley for jinxing it at the parade about Kane.

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:06 am

    It’s the offseason, stories have to come from somewhere. My assumption would be that it’s nothing to worry about at all.

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:31 am

    Not good

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:31 am

    Buffalo news reporter tweeted Kane’s investigation is for rape. No bueno. No fucking bueno.

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:59 am

    Right now John McDonough is banging his head off his desk.

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:04 am


    We all know Kane is more than capable of getting pretty out of control while drinking, but this seriously just breaks my heart. The odds are that the McDonough machine will make this go away, but I’m hard pressed to believe it didn’t happen.

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:08 am

    Don’t jump to conclusions on this, there are all kinds of people in this world, many of whom have dollar signs in their eyes. Wait until definitive info comes out.

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:25 am

    I agree with Hof. Someone could be just looking for a settlement or payday. Wait for all the facts

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:28 am

    Exactly my thoughts Hof.

    Not discounting anything or this woman’s claims, if there are any. Rape is a real crime and a serious one.

    But the math makes me pause; $10 mil a year makes you a target for someone who wants to make money that way. Just the threat of an accusation and the publicity, court time, etc would be enough to make Kaner get pressured into paying a settlement to end this quickly, guilty or not.

    Additionally, does Kane need to force a woman into something? He’s a millionaire, in a long term relationship, 3 time Cup champion, in his home town……and he has no other options!?!?!?

    Why would he need to do this?

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:37 am

    Rape is not a crime about sex.

    Kaner has those options I’m sure. Probably a lot more than the average male.

    Rape is a crime of power and hatred/lack of respect for women.

    But by all accounts Kaner is very close with his sisters (takes them to boy band concerts) and his mother (went to Europe and lived with her during the lockout).

    So I don’t see the hatred for women.

    And I don’t think that he feels powerless in life in a way that he would NEED to resort to a crime to feel powerful.

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:43 am

    Yes, we shouldn’t jump to conclusions but this does indicate Kane’s apparent proclivity to put himself in a position where there is a police investigation of an alleged criminal matter. As a high-profile athlete he should be aware of the potential pitfalls of being in a public drinking establishment. Ask Ben Roethlisberger, Charles Barkley, etc.

  • August 6, 2015 at 12:02 pm

    Yep. All those girls that go to hospitals to get rape kits done because they want money.

    Wasn’t too long ago when Kane was drunk at a frat party in Madison and choking a girl.

    If you want to get to learn a little bit more about Patrick Kane, go talk to some bar owners in Chicago. Stories for days.

    Not trying to bury the guy, but his history of shit behavior doesn’t help his case.

  • August 6, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    So did Bickell get traded yet?

  • August 6, 2015 at 12:04 pm

    Either way this is no good. With Kaner’s reputation this will never go away.

    For 1% of his cap either the player or the club could hire a chaperone who could ensure incidents of this nature – whether the fault of the player or a woman looking to make a quick $ – never take place.

  • August 6, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    Agreed with wall. If this holds water, void his ass. Cap trouble over. Really look like he was turning the corner leadership and maturity wise on the ice, still too young not to be a complete prick off of it apparently. Bummer, and bigger bummer for the people he bullys.

  • August 6, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    I haven’t heard anything about statutory other than 1 other source besides WGN. The other source said it was initially termed statutory, but the age of victim was unclear.

    For now, I will stick to what the Buffalo news and Tim Graham report. Theyre much closer than anyone else.

  • August 6, 2015 at 12:55 pm

    One source used the word statutory, then linked Graham’s tweets. Graham makes no reference to statutory. Perhaps we should all stay away from the computers until something concrete arises. If he is in fact charged with something I’ll react accordingly

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    I’m giving PK the benefit of the doubt, but boy does he sure put himself in some “difficult” situations.

    He has to know that he has a target on his back due to his high profile & large bank account…..

    As the late Robin Williams so eloquently put it:
    “God gave man 2 heads but only enough blood to run 1 at a time”

    Add large amounts of alcohol = bad decision making……

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:09 pm

    Statutory rape doesn’t mean non-consensual, just underage. With other reports saying he met her at a bar and consent age in New York is 17 that doesn’t really add up. He met a 16 year old at a bar? I guess it could happen, I would struggle to hold that one against him.

    And Hof, numerous people, you included, hinted that she could just be going for money.

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:11 pm

    This is horrible on so many levels. He was on his way to having a banner hung in the rafters at the UC. Now… he’ll be thanking his lucky stars if he doesn’t end up in prison. Statutory isn’t necessarily non-consensual but there’s no excuse for this, minor, of age, consent or no. He’s clearly learned nothing from his past.

    I think JS was being sarcastic based on some of the previous comment. Probably not the right posting to make an attempt at irony.

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    Let’s slow down for a second, here. To be ACCUSED of rape is one thing, obviously the police and investigators must do their jobs and prove the case. But just the fact that Kaner is even hanging around with this kind of element has to raise some serious questions about his judgment.

    To me, he is innocent until proven guilty. But the Hawk organization, the fans and the players in the NHL have to be asking themselves, “what is Kaner thinking”?

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:16 pm

    He probably should have just gone fishing with Bickell…

    Either way, eeeeeeeeediot for being in that position anyway. He probably needs new friends too. And maybe quit drinking and take up a more reputable vice like cigars.

    Could have been someone that he was with and he may be a witness… maybe…

    I guess the off season isn’t boring anymore.

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:26 pm

    @CHEVRIER, Bobby Hull has a banner and a statue and he has given his second wife “a real beating,” held her over a balcony and pulled a weapon on her. He took a swing at an officer responding to an altercation with his third wife. Sooooo there’s that…

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:29 pm

    What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Let us see what the facts are. Could be another gold digging bimbo looking for a quick pay day. I for one will give Kane the benefit of the doubt until the facts prove otherwise.

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:31 pm

    I am going refine from making assumptions until the facts come out. The facts at this stage are

    Kane hasnt been charged w anything yet

    No legal actions have been brought against him yet

    He is a person of interest in an ongoing rape case

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:40 pm

    So weird to agree with Rufus.

    Innocent until proven guilty means nothing to me when it comes to sexual assault. They are rarely ever reported, they are nearly impossible to prove, and ALWAYS exploit the victim.

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:53 pm

    Non-consent is difficult to prove. Agree with JS and Rufus. Unless agression was involved, or some other sort of harm or injury it is extremely difficult to prove it was something more than sex. As sad as it is, it really comes down to a he said she said scenario. Rape kit probably confirmed sex took place. It sounds as if he was questioned prior to the warrant and was going in to speak with officers on his own.

    That’s where we stand. He tells officers it was consensual. She says it wasnt. Unless she was drugged, other than alcohol. It’s extremely difficult to get the evidence, which is what the police doing.
    Now, I’d be curious to know how long the girl waited from the time of the act, to the time she went to the hospital, to when the cops were alerted. Not being a woman I don’t have the same insight to the girls mental state. But, I would have probably alerted the authorities first prior to going to the hospital. But then again maybe she didnt even know what happened, and went to the hospital to find out if something did.

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:54 pm

    On the Kane incident:

    Oh dear Lord Jesus, this ain’t happening, man… This can’t be happening, man! This isn’t happening!

    That’s it, man. Game over, man. Game over, what the f..k are we supposed to do now, huh, what are we gonna do?

    I don’t believe this, I don’t f..king believe this. We’re doomed now…

  • August 6, 2015 at 1:59 pm

    ^^ JS, once again you miss the point.

    You can call it a hint, I call it raising a possibility in absence of reliable information. There are those young women who do lots of crazy things for money, there are also goofs who commit sexually related crimes. We don’t know at this point.

    The point was … you made a statement that ‘s typical of you … a smarmy comment .. saying “Yep. All those girls that go to hospitals to get rape kits done because they want money. ” Which no one said or even hinted … that all those girls that go to hospitals to get rape kits etc. etc. …

    Stop making assumptions about what people say and extrapolating it to “all”. Nowhere did I (or anyone) even suggest what you stated and I take offense to it. This is far from the first time you’ve done this. Just stop.

    And now you’re an expert on sexual assault claims?? Do tell. What line of work are you in, or did you get the stories from the owner of Swig or one of the other multitude of Chicago bars you frequent? Again, just stop. Let this all play out.

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:01 pm

    JS says “ALWAYS exploits the victim”. Like the Duke rape case?

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:14 pm

    Just the allegations/investigation/perception alone are troubling enough.

    The fact that one of the two Hawks “franchise” players has his name linked to a rape investigation is in itself alarming and stunning. Think about it, no matter what the outcome, this allegation will dog him for a long, long, time.

    On a side note, I am originally from Buffalo and spoke with friends there this morning and Kane is/was supposedly to have the Stanley Cup there on Saturday.

    I can’t see how that would happen with this huge dark cloud looming. That is all they are talking about in Buffalo today. It is all over the front page of the paper.

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:25 pm

    They decimated the team keeping Kaner on board this year… Sharp, Saad?!?!?!

    He may be good, but that means nothing if he is in jail.

    Betting on Kane is always going to be a risky bet.

    If I were Bowman, I would be thinking that I should have put my money on Sharp and Saad and traded Kane’s ass to whoever wants him.

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:26 pm

    Rufus, could you please show me the link to the reputable source that says 16 year old girl?

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    If Kane is in jail, the team would void his contract ala Mike Richards. WE ARE FAR FROM THAT.

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:29 pm

    Oooooo this is getting exciting now.

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:33 pm

    It’s still innocent until proven guilty. No need to talk about releasing Kane

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    Rufus, which published report?

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:42 pm

    Well, i thought this was going to be an exciting summer, but NOT what i had in mind….

    If Hawks/nhl suspend him pending whatever. .. does kane count vs cap?

    Guy should never have a drink again! !!

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:46 pm

    Any chance the victim in question is Devan Dubnyk?

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    Kane reminds me of Justin Beiber. No idea how to deal with his fame and fortune. I love the comments in here, and IDC that nothing has been proved yet. these comments still apply weather Kane is guilty or not.


    or at least stop drinking in public. Seriously, Kane is a larger than life celebrity, why is he at a bar? Does Donald Trump walk into common bars in Buffalo trying to get drinks for his pals and maybe pickup a few chicks? NO WAY! If he did, every gold digger in the area would latch on to him and he would be in a huge mess of trouble. Does this mean that Trump has no fun at all and gets no chicks or never drinks? Of course not! Trump does it all in a way that is not public because he can afford to buy anything he wants to party on or in. Kane can too but he prefers the public eye.

    So maybe Trump is a poor example, look at Toews, Parise, Saad, Hossa, Crosby and all of the other stars that don’t see this sort of trouble in their lives. Do they drink as hard as Kane does in public?

    Probably not. And alcoholism is a tough one. Its a sneaky disease that ruins lives every single day.

    After so many repeated similar issues, it is hard to believe that Kane is innocent as much as I want to. This just sounds like something he would do. Even if he is innocent, it sounds like there is nothing that will change him or stop him from acting like an idiot, unless of course, he ends up in jail.

    Remember, he warned everyone at the parade about it in his drunken slur.
    Saying something like….

    “They said I am young but you aint even seen me next week.”

    He was pretty clearly forewarning everyone there.

    Damn it, this super sucks.

  • August 6, 2015 at 2:53 pm

    This is getting too personal and nasty. Whatever happens we can’t control. I hate to see you guys calling each other names. I think we need to see how it all plays out. Then we should have the facts.ytt

    Let’s agree to disagree– even strongly,but I hate to see it get personal among our contributors.

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:01 pm

    Wall, their is precedent in the Voynov case regarding suspended players. He would not count against the cap. Multiple avenues could be taken. We’ll delve into that later.

    I have read one internet article that has made mention of statutory. However, the Buffalo news and reporter Tim Graham who broke the story have made no mention of underage. What I read was the initial report said statutory, but the age of the alleged victim is unknown. What?? That story was far from reputable.

    Let’s decipher fact from fiction before we pass judgement. I’ll hold him down while you take shots if he did what YOU are speculating, Until then….

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:17 pm

    People that want to get in a fist fight over the internet are the funniest. You guys should just take turns pounding sand up each others asses and then sell it to some kink site.

    Hof, it’s pretty simple. You said “Don’t jump to conclusions on this, there are all kinds of people in this world, many of whom have dollar signs in their eyes. Wait until definitive info comes out.” Dollar signs. Maybe I’m really bad at reading comprehension, but aren’t you saying that some people lie to police to try to get money?

    The possible victim here went to the hospital to have a rape examination done. A process that can take several hours and isn’t something I would equate to lounging on a beach chair. She might just be looking for money though, according to you. But of course, we shouldn’t jump to conclusions, because there is no definitive evidence yet.

    HAWKS1961- take a couple minutes out of your day to look up statistics on unreported rape. Then look up numbers on how many people are convicted that are accused. Then look up false accusations. It’s great that you can remember a case where the accuser actually lied, but I can think of many more where the victims kill themselves after people don’t believe their story.

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    Maybe we should just wait and see when/if he gets charged first before jumping to conclusions? It does not sound very good taken at face value, but lets wait and see what details surface. Despite Kaners prior history of unruly drunken behavior, the guy is innocent until proven guilty. I agree with those that say that Kane should not be remotely close to being involved with anything resembling questionable behavior. WTF?

    Man o Manischewitz, this summer was rolling along pretty well apart from the goofy Saad deal. I was able to hang out with Lord Stanley’s Cup last night which was pretty cool since it was the third time in 6 years. Who would have thought??Always something special to hug the Cup.

    Say it ain’t so Kaner, please?

    Lets Go Hawks!

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:27 pm

    Also Rufus, please get your wife for me and have her read you New York’s consent law. If a person is between 13 and 16 the partner could be 4 years older. Otherwise, in New York the age of consent is 17.

    Not that it matters as every good source I’ve heard has made no mention of statutory. I suspect the published report you speak of had an author that didnt understand what they were talking about or used an inaccurate source.

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:30 pm

    JS, Hoff was referencing the fact that some people do have poor motives and are opportunistic by nature. We can’t argue that. He didnt say thats the case here. Just that people like that are out there.

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    No JS, I said exactly what I said. Had I wanted to say what you think I said, I would have said it. I neither stated or implied anything about people lying to the police.

    Just read what is said and don’t react with your own personal interpretation of what is written.

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    This is one of those “went online and got a sledgehammer” days. Everyone needs to chill-out. Rufus, I have a 17 yr old daughter and, trust me, I understand. Yet, I agree with you, Hof – your position that is, not the vitriol. The mind goes in all kinds of directions with news like this – check that, “reports” like this.

    Yes, Kane will not get the benefit of the doubt here, unfortunately he gave that aware in the past. But allegations like this are of the most serious kind. This ain’t no argument with a cabbie. Everyone is best served waiting for the real story. Notice whose not said a word yet.

    Let’s wait for the facts. Brace yourselves

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:35 pm

    Agree completely with Chelsea—this board degenerates into worthlessness when some posters have no tolerance for what others have to say and go out of their way to humiliate another’s POV. The Blackhawk fans I wish to read and relate to respectfully agree to disagree with one another, and don’t resort to profanity-laced tirades and attacks against one another. With my generation, when you have to resort to foul language and threats, you really don’t have anything intelligent to add to the conversation.

    What a disappointing day, in every way…

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:44 pm

    Hope everyone can take a step back from the ledge until more info is known. Hof, RTF and JS – you guys are very high quality contributors so hope you keep the comments from getting so personal. The comments by AJ re: Bobby Hull sure struck a chord. The guy was a god when I was growing up and yet he should have been arrested for some of the shit he did. Even today he always seems to have a drink in hand when they show him on TV – not a very appealing role model. I sure hope Kaner isn’t following a similar path but one thing is highly likely right now – his life will never be the same.

  • August 6, 2015 at 3:56 pm

    Please explain what this section means… “there are all kinds of people in this world, many of whom have dollar signs in their eyes.”

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:03 pm

    Hof, gotta take JS side on this one…
    You do imply things there…

    And regardless, if this all turns out in 88s gavor, and she is “proven” to be gold digger, this still plays out bad for kane, hawks,…

    Guy has to be smarter, and should never drink! Ever!

    Speaking from experience on drinking from close friends to myself…. alot of bad decisions happen when in that state,,.

    When major things happen over and over, and alcohol is a. constant… it is time to quit…

    My kane to sabres for eichel deal,thought for summer is starting to look pretty good. Jeez! !!

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:09 pm

    Rufus is a high quality contributor? Uh, high quantity maybe. Constant sky-is-falling rants and perma-doomsaying is not for me. The stuff some of these guys on here say literally blows my mind.

    I’m surprised at the amount of people believing no due-process is needed and Kane raped an underage girl for sure.

    Thank god you folks aren’t in positions of power. Putin would love you in his country.

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:13 pm

    This is just depressing. I don’t know how to process this. If allegations are true this is so much more important than the effect on the Hawks and on me as a fan, but it’s still depressing as hell as a fan of the team and of Kane as a player. I so very much just want this to go away and let me go back to my idyllic Hawks fan bubble, but in my heart of hearts I believe that anyone guilty of sexual abuse should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

    And to think less than 24 hours ago the matter of re-signing Kruger seemed like a big deal.

    I just need to step away for a while – there is no joy in this and I don’t hang out on hockey message boards to get depressed. See ya all down the road.

    Good luck Patrick.

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    This sounds like a job or something on the show ray Donovan he’s a fixer changes the story. All bs talk aside let’s hope all is well and he just stays the hell out of buffalo when he comes home the shit hits the fan. I do feel sorry too if this is true but I’m not going to listen to anything until I hear an attorney speak.

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Also, Keep the fighting in perspective. Rufus and Hof have been disagreeing all year to many varying degrees. This event would no doubt send them into a tail spin. That is the primary reason I checked back!

    There is an awful lot on the line here. Serious allegations. We all have reason to be upset.

    JUST IMAGINE what the rest of the Hawks are doing right now. Imagine their feelings and comments. I imagine they sound much like this board.

    Say your piece, know it is appreciated.

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Wall, Eichel has had his alcohol run ins too.

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:58 pm

    This whole topic brings up a lot of raw emotion-
    it’s best to take some time to cool down and get some more facts and information-
    regardless a sad day

  • August 6, 2015 at 4:59 pm

    News that there is an Erie County D.A. on it now adding more smoke to suspected fire.

    Best case scenario for Kane: Not enough there for the authorities to actually file charges and he escapes real trouble. But questions will remain. If the person in question drops it at that point, then it would probably blow over. But if person in question is angered by no charges filed, then she goes the civil suit route, and this story keeps going for a long time to come. Either way, 88 gets very, very serious about his conduct off the ice or I believe the Blackhawks will cut him loose. I think they would

  • August 6, 2015 at 5:01 pm

    It just sucks that he can’t be like capt. Toews his attitude is winning off the ice he was in Peru with his girlfriend hiking or climbing but adventures with his lady. Come on Kane that’s your older brother technically like he’s now haven’t you learned from him? I wish alcohol didn’t become the main entrée for going out. That much energy wasted and for what? Hope all is well but now this is a giant learning lesson for 88. I want to hear his lawyers statement.

  • August 6, 2015 at 5:11 pm


    You are the sweepstakes winner having comment number 88!

  • August 6, 2015 at 5:25 pm

    Ernie- I can think of over $9 million reasons (in savings)… that Eichel would be a better “chance” to take than Kane right now!!!!

    And I still contend- the Hawks would be better off- as a quality team with Eichel + 2 $5M players…

    But- it would never fly to lose Kane or Teows- After all they have done for Chi. Hockey!!! so Pens2.0

  • August 6, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    Wall- 3 Cups vs 1.

  • August 6, 2015 at 6:35 pm

    Eichel hasn’t done anything… Yet. I get what your saying though. Noonan- said it best.

    Also, having a DA isn’t damning in and of itself. She’ll be the one that decides if charges will be brought.

    Read what Julie Dicaro had to say about her experiences with rape. Worth the time.

  • August 6, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    Ebonyraptor reflects my feeling entirely. I and my my hockey-expert colleague at work, Eduardo, were hanging our heads when we heard this. All of us feel like we were just stabbed by the Chelsea Dagger.

    Even the least bad outcome is not sounding good, but that is all we can hope for. In the mean time, please stop fighting and withhold judgement until we learn the facts.

    Just to think that a couple of weeks ago when Ryan O’Reilly had his DUI accident, I thought how glad I am that he is not on our team.

  • August 6, 2015 at 6:45 pm

    Whatever the truth is in this matter we can probably all agree this is a devastating blow to the team. All I’ll say about the situation is that usually where there’s smoke there’s fire. Hoping for the best but the news is pretty ominous. Whatever the outcome dude needs to pull out of his ass in a big way.

    Wall? You think the Sabres would have given up Eichel, a stud young C for Kane at $ 10.5? I sure don’t. I proposed, ( half seriously), before the draft that moving Kane was one quick way to get under the cap but the return options would have been pretty limited at the salary he’s going to be pulling.

  • August 6, 2015 at 6:48 pm

    I have never posted here. Allow me to suggest that a person is innocent until proven guilty in this great country. The simple allegation of rape cannot however be swept under the ice. This is a shocking thing and it should be very unsettling to anybody. If Mr. Kane is the victim of somebody trying to extort money then that is one thing. But for a woman to file police report of rape and enter into a medical treatment facility can cannot be neatly dismissed. This young woman would be facing very serious legal charges if she were fabricating a story to this depth. My conclusion is that Mr. Kane is finished as a celebrity endorser no matter what happens with this investigation next. And if the District Attorney files charges of almost any sort and an arrest warrant is handed out then we have seen the official end of Mr. Kane playing hockey in an Indianhead sweater. And maybe in the NHL altogether. Mr. Kane shows signs of a young man who suffers from early stage alcoholism too. While I don’t agree with the ferocity of statements that Mr. Firefly makes I do agree with his conclusion that if Mr. Kane were the team’s last man or went by the name Mr. Rosival or Mr. Carrillo that fan assessment of the situation would be exponentially more critical. Celebrity and hockey greatness does not create immunity from rules of society.

  • August 6, 2015 at 6:50 pm

    What I am getting from everyone is… if this is statutory, then the young woman is under 17. I am just guessing that most 16 year old kids are still living with their parents.

    Maybe going to the hospital for the rape evaluation was the choice of her parents when they found out what happened?

  • August 6, 2015 at 7:05 pm

    Wait for the facts to come out before speculating. Doughty had the same allegations against him in 2012 but no one seems to call him a rapist

  • August 6, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    Another point would be, if they met in a bar, she was either being served underage or using a fake i.d. card. That bar might be in some big trouble either way.

    Whether Kane did it or not, or to what degree, her possibly using false identification(if so) and being drunk will hurt her case, victim or consenting. Women tend to get the short end of the stick in these things, especially against professional athletes

  • August 6, 2015 at 7:36 pm


    Do you remember that show called “The Unknown Comic”

  • August 6, 2015 at 7:50 pm

    JS- 3 cup to 1… is pre-19/88 BIG $$$ contract… the trick will be after the $21M or 29% of cap/to two players… that is Pens 2.0 comment…

    Really- thought prior to this summer- Hawks would be in a very bad place…
    But SB signing Panarin/(like getting a top 5 draft pick)… and Dano/AA – Hawks were in a good place again… to really challenge- until 56/TT/72 were asking for raises in 2-3 years… things -got better/fast!!!

    This Kane issue… could instantly change things — again!!!

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:05 pm

    Can I suggest Rufus and Hoff not address each other for a couple days. Regardless of who I side with neither of you are really adding anything else insightful at this point.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:09 pm

    Just wanted to add this post is classic by Feathers:

    “Rufus is a high quality contributor? Uh, high quantity maybe. Constant sky-is-falling rants and perma-doomsaying is not for me. The stuff some of these guys on here say literally blows my mind.

    I’m surprised at the amount of people believing no due-process is needed and Kane raped an underage girl for sure.

    Thank god you folks aren’t in positions of power. Putin would love you in his country.”

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:11 pm


    Look back who started the profanity first. I’m not a starter, I’m a finisher.

    Rufus the Doofus may intimidate some, but not me.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:15 pm


    No hurry, no worry.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:16 pm

    Wall, as usual, I don’t much care what you think or that you agree with JS. Matters not to me.

    Have fun with your exclamation points and the CAPS KEY !!!!!!!

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:19 pm

    Phil, I hear ya.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:21 pm

    JS, not my problem to explain things to you, I wrote what I wrote, if you’re too dumb to figure it out just scroll on by and have another double cheeseburger and multiple drinks. Maybe one of the Chicago bar owners will tell you another story you can pass off as gospel LOL.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:39 pm

    Hof I get it. I really do. I wasn’t taking sides. But what are we gaining at this point by cursing each other out? We get it. Youll fight he’ll fight. Great. I could care less about the vulgarity itself. I cuss like a fucking sailor. They’re words. Big deal. We don’t need two people personally attacking one another. We love the Hawks despite some comments rufus makes on how dumb the Hawks are about pretty much everything. Give it an eye roll and move on.

    The underage thing I don’t get. I’ve read stories where they very briefly mention it. But they then source everything to the Buffalo news and Tim Graham who says rape but nothing about statutory.

    I suggest no matter which side you are on. Take a breath. Think hard, be unbiased and realize what is known. Kane was at a bar. Went home with a girl. From there it gets blurred on the legality of the evening. Why the fuck are we cursing each other out and attacking one another over that? It’s amazing. I’m probably one of the younger posters here, but Jesus Christ its like high school all over again. Regardless of who started what and who’s finishing what, were acting like fucking idiots over something we can’t control.

    When we know SOMETHING I’ll move my position accordingly.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    Hof, when you’re normal, you’re additions to this site are very valuable. But you’re hair trigger and go off unnecessarily. I read this board for hockey knowledge and opinions, not macho quackery. I’m just encouraging you to rise above it and talk hockey. It’s not personal, just business.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:42 pm

    Ernie, thanks for your comments and I agree. He made it personal, I do not take that lightly, never have, never will.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:46 pm

    Flatliner, if you have a problem with certain things, don’t add to them. Really simple. Surprised you don’t understand that.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:53 pm

    Rufus, can you name another incident with a woman Kane has had? The limo in Vancouver with John Madden? Nothing. The Madison drinking. Nothing there. Cab driver in Buffalo? Had no idea that was a woman.

    What you are doing is slander. Kane is no angel, but none of us are. (Except me, I’m perfect…eyeroll). Does Kane have an alcohol problem? None of us here are friends with him so that’s not for us to decide. Nothing on this scale has ever happened to him before. Again, if he did what you are alleging I’ll hold him down for you. But some of what you are alleging is purely false.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:57 pm


    Internet message board drama. I like to think of rude net comments like Vigo the Carpathian thinks of the Ghostbusters.
    “You are like the buzzing of flies to him.”

    Seriously Hoff, you should focus that aggression on a seething letter to the NHL about not using the UC in the new NHL game.

  • August 6, 2015 at 8:57 pm

    Your guys personal made it our public. That’s all I’m saying.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:00 pm

    Ernie, your comments are sane and rational. Thanks. Rufus likes to be provocative, so he makes ridiculous statements. He has hockey knowledge but goes too far. It’s usually not worth responding to.

    It’s been a long, ugly day, fellas. Hopefully tomorrow is a better one.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:02 pm

    Feathers : hilarious! Thanks for the comic relief.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:11 pm

    Recent news is the case has been assigned a prosecutor, which isn’t a good sign. That usuallly means it has escalated from an investigation and is awaiting charges.

    So now we sit and wait for details. Cue slo-mo trainwreck. I hope this doesn’t harm the organization, regardless of outcome.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:37 pm

    Thanks flatliner. Unfortunately I’ve got chickens that are more civil than this board was today. I enjoy posting here and whether I disagree with others here or not is immaterial. Tab has a wonderful sight. Some of that wonder is from other posters. I like to think we make each other better more informed hockey/Hawks fans. But what happened today was just awful.

    My apologies go out to Tab. I appreciate what he’s done to bring the team I love closer to me. I understand the allegations are very serious and extremely sensitive on multiple different levels. The fact remains, we still don’t know what happened and may never. We shouldn’t pass our personal beliefs/agenda and slander someone until we have fact. It’s not fair to Kane or the alleged victim. It’s not fair to take sides until more is known. And certainly we shouldn’t resort to name calling regardless of who started what. I truly don’t think anybody was defending this issue other than essentially saying to take a step back. How that started a shit throwing war is beyond me.

    Tab, thank you for having all of us here.

  • August 6, 2015 at 9:50 pm

    I implore all of you to read the most recent write up the Buffalo News has. Was released at 8:22 eastern and has a nice rundown of today’s events and what is known. The Buffalo News is the source all other outlets have been getting their information from.

    They say repeatedly young woman. They do not say anything about underage.
    They say a rape kit was administered. It has yet to be analyzed.
    No charges have been filed, but a DA has been assigned.

    Good night everybody. I’m gonna shower, it appears I was caught in the shit throwing crossfire.

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:13 pm

    District Attorney assignment translates into a police investigation concluding there is enough evidence of some sort. It is now up to the DA to determine the charges to be filed. The mildly positive news is that Patrick Kane has not been immediately incarcerated which would most definitely have happened if this was a clear cut case of non consensual sex or even worse, statutory rape. Regardless I am of the growing opinion this is a bad and deteriorating set of circumstances. If felony charges are on the table then I have to believe an arrest warrant is issued tomorrow before the weekend. If the DA is quiet tomorrow then it may indicate a lesser crime has occurred. If that is the case I wonder if Rocky Wirtz and his family abandon Kane regardless.

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:25 pm

    Mercy. I just stopped by to catch up and see if there has been any more news since I checked out several hours ago and I’m sorry I did. Hopefully a night’s rest will help to calm.

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:40 pm

    Gonna tip toe real quiet like into this room and hope I don’t get clobbered. Watched the Buffalo evening news and there is no mention of any under age girl nor can I find any reference to the word “statutory” anywhere ( outside of internet trolls). Police were summoned to Mickey Rats Beach Club in Evans but the manager there said he had not seen Patrick Kane there that evening. You would think the manager would know if Kane had been in the place. He was seen and very visible at the Brierwood Golf and Country Club, Toppers, City Tavern and Sky Bar. Just the facts. Emotions are obviously pretty high. Slander just causes more problems so lets not speculate or run with rumours.

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:41 pm

    In Erie County (Buffalo), the District Attorney often presents the case to a Grand Jury which then decides whether to indict or “no bill” the subject (in this case Kane).

    Here is the latest from Buffalo News. Having lived in Buffalo for 33 years and worked in the media there for a decade, I can tell you that the two writers – Dan Herbeck and Lou Michel – are the paper’s top notch very best ( written books about Tim McVeigh and interviewed him, incredible stuff )

  • August 6, 2015 at 10:48 pm

    I sometimes get on this blog late since I’m out here on the left coast. I was busy today at work and didn’t do any web surfing and checking the NHL news and all things Blackhawks, as I usually do. But just as I was getting into my car to head home, my good buddy calls (he also happens to be a big Kings fan), and I say hello and he says, assuming that I already knew what had happened, “I think Voynov and Patrick Kane should be roommates.” And I said, “What the fuck does that mean?” And he then proceeded to tell me, with great glee, about the story. And even though it pissed me off to hear what had happened, what pissed me off the most was how happy he seemed to be telling me all about it. And why? Because the Hawks stand to lose so much if any of this proves to be true, and our competition is fucking loving it. I can only imagine the snickering, laughing and guffawing that’s going on in the hockey world right now. And even though I find this disturbing, I subscribe to the what the organization’s statement said, that they were looking into it and that ” It would be inappropriate to comment at this time.” After reading this entire thread – holy shit! – I wish that some who have commented here would have followed the same advice. We’ll find out soon enough what is true and what is not. In the meantime, no more black belt, gynecologist rants, please. This is a hockey blog for our beloved team. Let’s chill. I’m having a glass of wine and I may even vape some good weed. (I’m 59, so don’t judge. It’s medication…dude.)

    May tomorrow’s news be better than today’s.

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:05 pm

    This is amazing. Two grown men threatening violence over a hockey blog. Pretty sure telling someone you have a gun, you know who they are, and to watch their back is not ok. To be frank, I think both of your families would be embarrassed by the way you’re acting.

    Thanks for explaining what you meant, Hof. Really cleared it up. After reading it a few more times I’m starting to understand that you definitely weren’t implying that the victim might be looking for money. My fault for misinterpreting something so obvious! All of those damn double cheeseburgers and beers must be making me stupid.

    Wall- I feel like Bowman was expecting the salary cap to go up a pretty decent amount. The Pens also don’t have Corey Crawford or Duncan Keith, so that kind of hurts them. You also have to look around the NHL and try to find teams that you think are in a better position.

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    Hof and rufus, I am embarrassed for you both. My favorite quote though:

    “if you’re too dumb to figure it out just scroll on by and have another double cheeseburger and multiple drinks”

    Damn. That might be the funniest thing I’ve read on this blog.

    Also, how can you say something like this “Bring your 16 year old too so she can read this thread before watching you take a fucking beating” in an argument regarding moral decisions?

    Oh wait, this post isn’t about you two…I almost forgot.

  • August 6, 2015 at 11:58 pm

    As seems to happen every so often things have moved from edgy and provocative to embarrassing and malicious. Self control and maturity may be central themes in this whole story around PK and some on this site need to use some.
    Good night to all.

  • August 7, 2015 at 12:46 am

    “What fuckin’ news?”

  • August 7, 2015 at 1:19 am

    We win the Cup in Boston in a most stunning way with a minute and change left and Crawford pulled. We miss on back to back Cups in ’14 letting it slip through our fingers just as it was in sight. Then a roller coaster season with weird rumours and stories coming out of the locker room that would rot away any team and where it would not be surprising at all if we got dispatched in the first round…but instead we go all the way and win the Cup. Then we lose 2 key players, Saad and Sharp, then Oduya, plus hired guns Richards and Vermette. Now this. I’m thinking what’s next? PTSD anyone? Is this a Yin Yang thing? Can this just please go away…bubble burst. Oh man WTF just happened.

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:23 am

    JS, you are indeed obviously too dense. Eat some more greasy food fat boy. It might continue to help you think you’re the smartest guy in the room, Captain Smarmy.

    Here it is plain as day: I said there are people in this world with dollar signs in their eyes … those who will do things some of us wouldn’t for money. You (and WALLL!!!!) somehow interpreted that to mean every female who goes to the hospital to complete a rape kit is trying to extort someone.

    Yeah, nice leap of logic there fat boy. Go back to Swig or one of those other 25 bars you hang out at and get even more drunk and smarmy. It’s what you do best. Keep looking for the moral high ground … wait, maybe instead of looking for that, take a look at the scale … speaking of embarassing.

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:26 am

    Benefit of the doubt until real charges are brought.
    However, if they are, the legal system needs to play out and hopefully it will play out honestly and without bias (read, apply the law as written, and not give a celebrity a break….treat him/them like any other person).
    Sad that this is happening. Not good for Kane, anyone else involved, and the Blackhawks. But hopefully the truth will be known and considered, and the right thing done, regardless of the situation.

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:29 am

    Feathers, yeah I’ll channel my inner Eric Ericson and do just that.

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:51 am

    Can we just say that- Bickell stole/and wore Kane’s Jersey last weekend!!!

    All problems solved!!!

    Hof- the “Gun” and 16 yr. old comments… a little too much-imo… but I know… you don’t read or care about my opinions… I am just imagining your replies to my posts

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:21 am

    Noonan96, great comment: “Self control and maturity may be central themes in this whole story around PK and some on this site need to use some.” I would also add “an out of control ego” to the mix. Patrick Kane is a great hockey player with some obvious problems. He seemed to get it for a while. His attitude at the parade seemed to show additional immaturity. The Hawks will survive, whatever the outcome. I pray for Patrick Kane and his family!

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:24 am

    And obviously the young girl (whatever her true age) in this unraveling story.

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:34 am

    there were a few email addresses not traditionally associated w/ Rufus involved in the pissing contest w/ Hof. Because of that, we made a bunch of the fact-lacking disrespectful stupid comments by both parties disappear.

    this has nothing to do with who enjoys fast food and who thinks he’s smarter than the rest of the room. Patrick Kane is under investigation for something that could change his life – and the next decade of the Blackhawks franchise. Let’s try to act like half of us have started – much less finished – puberty.

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:43 am

    The only thing this circus is missing is Gloria Allred.

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:45 am

    Thanks for the Buffalo news report link Craig, what’s puzzling from reading that report is that Kane was out and about the town the next day like is was a normal day. So either A) There wasn’t an alleged rape or B)Kane is a sociopath and has no remorse or feeling that anything he allegedly did or happened was wrong. I guess it’s a wait a see to what the facts truly are. It’s a very sad day for all parties involved.

  • August 7, 2015 at 8:29 am

    This whole story is getting real suspicious.

  • August 7, 2015 at 9:00 am

    As a retired P.O. with over 30 years on here’s what I know.

    Regarding the rape kit:

    A – It can show evidence of trauma or lack thereof.

    B – It can recover DNA which in itself proves nothing other than another person(s) had an intimate interaction with the patient. It’s important to note where the DNA was recovered from (inside-outside).

    C – It’s a medical examination used to obtain evidence.

    D – It does not prove intent.

    Obviously a positive result to “A” along with PK’s DNA being present is not good news for PK or the Hawks/NHL/Fans.

    However if PK’s DNA is not present it could be considered good news.

    My guess is that his DNA will be recovered but no trauma observed. So it will become a “He said-She said” situation, this is not good news either.

    I hope this helps understanding the rape kit & it’s importance to making the case for or against the allegations intimated by the media.

  • August 7, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Joey- even if trauma is shown in rape kit… does it “Prove” rape??? can it be – rough sex? small or large parts??? – couldn’t a person – cause “trauma” to themselves- after act? and how do you “prove” from there???

    not saying- she did/didn’t… just wondering in general- on the 100% = proof of rape= trauma/degrees of trauma???

    Gbladz… what is really puzzling? when people are shit faced – views/memories/are often distorted… A or B happened??? There are many possibilities/scenarios- in between…. that I can think of… that is why Rape- is so hard to prove… and often women- don’t even pursue… cuz so many shades in between-

  • August 7, 2015 at 9:35 am

    The police dept just gave a VERY brief statement about the matter. They said:

    They are investigating an incident that took place at Kane’s residence last weekend.
    They are waiting for forensic test results.


    Not mentioned by police: the words “rape” or “sexual assault.” They also did NOT say that they are specifically investigating Kane.

    More witness to small town everything not helping a situation, but that’s what they have officially put on the record thus far.

  • August 7, 2015 at 9:44 am

    Mining Man: So well expressed. So much has happened since June that it feels like we won the Cup last year. It’s like the Hawks left town and were replaced by a new team.

  • August 7, 2015 at 9:53 am

    Wall I didn’t mean those were the only two scenarios possible (there can always be shades of gray) that was my take after reading that report. like I said we will have to wait to see what the facts are to see what happened and make a decision on whether Kane is guilty.
    Just because someone is greatly intoxicated doesn’t mean they lose all of their abilities and wouldn’t remember an encounter like that (it’s not like forgetting where you parked your car or how many beer you had). A normal person would feel something and not walk around the next day like nothing happened unless they were callous and had no conscience.

  • August 7, 2015 at 10:17 am

    Note to self – come to committedindians for intelligent hockey discussion, do not come for discussions on pending legal matters. This is all just depressing.

    BTW, going waaay back to AJ, I don’t think any human wants to be compared to Bobby Hull let alone the very public face of your franchise. Bobby’s behavior would not be tolerated today (although it’s amazing the Ray Rice stuff took a video to cause outrage so who knows).

  • August 7, 2015 at 10:45 am


    “sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me”

    I know this is not true!

    We all have our opinions. We can state them however we choose. Wouldn’t it make the world a little bit better if we all allowed each other to say what we feel without blog bombing another persons thoughts, and possibly their feelings.

    Just a thought to consider.

  • August 7, 2015 at 10:58 am

    “We all have our opinions. We can state them however we choose.”

    First sentence yes. 2nd sentence-yes we can but how/what we say isn’t without consequence. Both to the speaker and others hearing it-

  • August 7, 2015 at 11:12 am


    Thank you. You are spot on!

  • August 7, 2015 at 12:03 pm

    Also should note they said nothing of the possibility of the alleged victim being a minor.

    As of now we know nothing that we didn’t know yesterday. Just some slight clarity. We are all guilty at times of jumping the gun too quickly, but seriously yesterday was absolutely ridiculous.

  • August 7, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    There really isn’t any new details about the case since the case broke the other day. Sounds like everyone is in a holding pattern at this stage and lots of speculation from tons of “sources”.

  • August 7, 2015 at 12:11 pm

    Did that post about Rufus being able to kill someone 3x before they hit the ground disappear? As a former professional ninja who has assassinated many high profile politicians and drug lords in the Orient, I can appreciate that sort of expertise.

  • August 7, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    So right now the only thing we know for sure is Hof + Rufus + countless others are meeting out by the monkey bars during afternoon recess?

  • August 7, 2015 at 12:57 pm
    Permalink has a good ongoing summary of the developments of the case. While the police statement didn’t say that they were investigating Kane in relation to an allegation of rape or sexual assault, the prosecutor assigned to the case specializes in sexual assault and police sources have *unofficially* stated that Kane is under investigation. Also, in terms of what a rape kit can be used for, see: What is a rape kit?

    Let’s see what the investigation brings to light. But, as Tim Baffoe’s says in his opinion piece for CBS Chicago, even if the outcome favors Kane, that does not mean that he did nothing wrong. Baffoe does a good job of saying what needs to be said about seeing this case from the perspective of justice. Basically, a lot of us are emotionally invested in the Hawks and particularly in Kane–don’t let that get in the way of your sense of justice. Baffoe: Patrick Kane Is Not Your Friend

    Rape culture is real and, through a series of traumas, fits, and starts, it is finally becoming a part of the conversation about sports culture. A big part of rape culture is victim blaming, preemptively discrediting women who come forth with rape accusations, and the tendency of the judicial process–and many in the general public–to disregard the testimony of rape victims as evidence.

  • August 7, 2015 at 1:04 pm


    Thanks for the humor. Given the events of the last 24 hours, it is sorely needed.

  • August 7, 2015 at 3:06 pm

    The Score was reporting that sources inside the organization were FURIOUS about this incident, apparently Kane had been warned when signing the new deal that off ice incidents like this would not be tolerated. It will be interesting to see how things progress over the next couple weeks.

    Speaking of a timeline, they also mentioned that a member of the media had ask the sheriffs earlier after the brief press if it was worth their time to stay in Buffalo and wait for news to break and were told NO. So reading between the lines there might not be a immediate charge pending today or anytime soon.

  • August 7, 2015 at 3:54 pm

    Did everyone here not learn anything from earlier in the year with the complete trash that was spewed about Patrick Sharp. How he was dragged through the mud and back again by so many on this board. It was rather sickening at times. Yes you know who you are and we also know full well who backed Sharpy too. Let the chips fall. Let this play out as it should and have the facts first, before we linch anybody shall we. So many love to be the Judge, Jury and Executioner!

  • August 7, 2015 at 4:15 pm

    Yes, this has to be tough on the Blackhawk brass over at Blackhawk HQ. Imagine they are tearing their hair out, sweeping desks clean in anger, throwing phones at the walls at least if not literally then fiquratively. This is a structural, economic, marketing, future plans, nightmare with everything projected and planned going up in smoke. Elaborate and carefully constructed Gantt charts into the shredder. God i hope this turns out to be a big nothing. I cannot imagine the Blackhawk team without Patrick Kane…it’s just a horrible horrible thought.

  • August 7, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    Come on everybody let’s get through this

  • August 7, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    We are the mighty Blackhawks

  • August 7, 2015 at 5:51 pm

    August 7, 2015 at 4:18 pm
    Come on everybody let’s get through this

    Hey STFU Jim. Don’t make me drive from Alberta to So Cal and punch you in the forhead for being an enthusiastic, kumbaya arsehole.

    FYI I am a former green beret, Canadian version, made the longest recorded sniper killshot in history, kicked Bruce Lee’s ass several times, make Rhonda Rousey tremble in fear, and constantly ask punks if they “feel lucky.” My passion is smothering small kittens, putting out cigarettes on my eyeballs, and I once reached into a mans chest, pulled his heart out let him watch it beat while he died. The Titanic didn’t sink after hitting an iceberg Jim. It was ME breastroking my way towards England.

    You don’t want me headed your way buddy so put a lid on the group hug bullshit ok?.

  • August 7, 2015 at 5:59 pm

    August 7, 2015 at 4:15 pm
    Yes, this has to be tough on the Blackhawk brass over at Blackhawk HQ. Imagine they are tearing their hair out, sweeping desks clean in anger, throwing phones at the walls at least if not literally then fiquratively.

    Funny you should mention that MM. There’s already been video posted of things around the Hawks team office today.

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:03 pm

    I think someone is pretending to be others on here. That didn’t resemble anything ALBERTAHAWKSFAN would say, in my time here and in this article.

    Is this a -thing- in this thread, Tab? People posting as others for shits and giggles?

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    I was kidding around Feathers. Sheesh. Just me mimicking the events of yesterday.

    I can go back to biotching about the Timonen trade if you like.

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:13 pm

    Kane had a party and “something” happened, seems it is NOT KANE . .. yet . .. BUT an event sexual that happened in his home. So slow down, this blog was full of Sharp bashers too a while back, all these guys are human, do dumb things and drink a lot. Sexual assault is not limited to the NBA or NFL or MLB it’s everywhere.

    We’ll see where this goes, but silly how sheep populate the blog when this FOX NEWS type stuff hits? silly humans

    go hawks
    a long summmmmmmmer

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:28 pm

    Mook..More like MSNBC …don’t be dissing Fox

  • August 7, 2015 at 6:29 pm

    Albertahawksfan.. Now that’s funny .. Great post!

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    The problem with hoping that it turns out to be “a big nothing”, is it already is a big something.

    Anytime a headline reads like so
    “Report: Patrick Kane the subject of a rape investigation.”

    It’s disastrous. Now I realize the justice system will play itself out and he might never be charged with a crime. But when you have a woman go to the hospital and a rape kit is taken. Just the claim alone is extremely serious.

    Look at the headline again : Kane and rape in the same sentence.
    This a nightmare for the Hawks, the organization and anybody like myself who has loved the Hawks for nearly 50 years.

    As Tab mentioned above. This event might alter Kane’s life career, as well as, the future of the Chicago Blackhawks as we know it.

    At very minimum his image and the Hawks “brand” has taken an enormous negative hit.

    All we can do is nervously wait and watch.

    Suddenly hockey issues, such as finding cap space to re-sign Kruger, seem extremely trivial.

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:02 pm

    Hey AlbertaHawksFan I think I know what the FU stands for what does the ST stand for enlighten me.

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:06 pm

    Mining man: Does Fox have a news channel?

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:10 pm

    August 7, 2015 at 7:02 pm
    Hey AlbertaHawksFan I think I know what the FU stands for what does the ST stand for enlighten me.

    Shut The….

    All in fun Jim and no offence intended. Just bored and being a doofus.


  • August 7, 2015 at 7:17 pm

    SoCal…STFU…shut the f*** up …

    Mook…that would be a great outcome and most desirable if Kane was not involved…I thought this myself when I read that the police where searching around outside the house with flashlights.

    Craig N…have to agree, its pretty bad image wise. If it turns out OK and Kane was not involved I think the Blackhawk organization can get past it but will have to insure things never get out of hand again. If it goes bad the brand is screwed for a generation at least.

  • August 7, 2015 at 7:19 pm

    Evening all. Well, things sure have changed since our family trip to the motherland. Feels like we touched down in bizzaro world! Was truly sickened as I scrolled through the past couple of days. The comment posted here by a few grown men are deplorable and embarassing. Tab, that may have been a good time to lock things down for awhile, just so all the guns could be holstered and the ninja stars put away. Other sites, as I am very sure you know, locked comments as the situation was too fluid for rational thought to prevail.Regarding young master Kane, if the allegations are proven to be fact,his justice will be swift and deliberate when the time comes, whether in this life or beyond. At best he is guilty of horrible judgement, at worst, well, as father it truly disgusts me. On a far lesser note, we may be witnessing paradise lost for our Blackhawks. This could slam the window shut and end an amazing run. The kid was warned, specifically before signing the deal, that he needed to watch his ass and straighten up. Many feel betrayed by this young man at the moment. truly a shame. Let the system run its course and hopefully the truth will come out. Until then, lets reserve judgement.

  • August 7, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    AlbertaHawksFan cheers to you

  • August 7, 2015 at 9:33 pm

    re: the Greek – I like to leave the comments open. When the dust settles, it can be fun to go back and remember how immature/irrational/ridiculous some folks (including me) have been at times.

    That said, the comments here do make me question the future of America. That, and the Donald…

  • August 7, 2015 at 10:31 pm

    Chicagoland area must be all abuzz with this development. It sure pops the Stanley Cup bubble and all the good feelings. Whats the latest consensus from the folks in the city? Buffalo police ( 50 minutes ago) state there is an investigation at the house and awaiting forensic evidence ( as Tab previously stated ) but Buffalo reporters go further and state rape accusations involving Kane. Anyone heard anything?

  • August 8, 2015 at 12:26 am

    I have already read several articles(not here) from the holier than now press passing judgment that Kane at the very least is guilty of bad judgment and probably guilty of a lot more than that. I can’t stand that attitude. The reality is that Kane may have done absolutely nothing wrong. Its not illegal to go drinking at bars with friends or talking to girls. Its not up to the press to judge people. They should just report the facts as they come out.

  • August 8, 2015 at 1:40 am

    Pete they have reported the facts, that Patrick Kane is the subject of a rape investigation. Read the Buffalo News where the incident in question is under investigation. That is a fact.

    The opinion pieces in the newspapers and talk radio are completely different.

    Kane is a mega star and a woman alleges she was raped at his 2.6 million dollar compound. What do you expect ? The media to say hmmm no story here until criminal charges are lodged, let’s move on to the latest vacant house fire ?

    Sorry dude it is a huge story.

  • August 8, 2015 at 6:33 am

    Craig, the press reporting the fact that there is an investigation etc. is fine. I’m talking about people saying he is guilty and also saying he shouldn’t have put himself in the situation when nobody knows the details. The guy has the right to go out drinking with his friends and meet women. I won’t pass judgment here. For all we know he did absolutely nothing wrong!!!!

  • August 8, 2015 at 7:20 am

    Agree Pete. Also, the “report” that used the term statutory is terribly reckless.

    At some point the NHL will be stepping in and could do what they did to Voynov. And they could do it regardless of what the outcome is legally. The NHL could suspend him just for what we already know. Poor judgment and tarnishing the leagues image. Luckily for the league, this happened in the summer. If this happens in the regular season I don’t know if they react the same way.

  • August 8, 2015 at 7:23 am


    I think you are dillusioned and very bias. Criminal investigations are not opened and prosecutors are not assigned for guys going out to bars and meeting girls. There is enough here to warrant an investigation.
    I am a 45 year Hawks fan and not a hater and believe me this does not look trivial.

  • August 8, 2015 at 7:53 am

    Demo, if there is a criminal complaint there should be a criminal investigation. But that in and of itself doesn’t mean Kane did anything wrong. My point is people shouldn’t pass judgment on Kane without knowing what happened. And I don’t agree that he “put himself in a bad situation” by going to a bar and meeting a girl. If he did something wrong he is accountable. If he did nothing wrong he is a victim here. Period end of story.

  • August 8, 2015 at 8:01 am

    Also how many people “put themselves in a situation” by going to a bar drinking and meeting people. How about almost everyone at some point in their lives. People need to stop with the sanctimony and “bad public relations”. If he did something wrong he will be and must be held legally accountable like everyone else. And if he is being falsely accused that person should be held accountable for that. (Anyone read about what happened to Drew Doughty)

  • August 8, 2015 at 8:03 am

    I completely agree Pete. What some people fail to realize is, in the beginning of these investigations, there is no difference between a guy raping a girl at his home and sending her off to tell the police and a pair of inebriated people having sex and one of them declaring rape the next day after their actions.

    The truth will come out. Obviously we hope Kane didn’t rape anyone. That’s an unforgivable thing regardless of the perpetrator. But. But. If this girl fucked Kane and then had to go home to her husband and explain or what have you.. You never know.

    I will always lean towards the side of innocence. That’s how U.S. Law is supposed to be. Guilt must be proven.

  • August 8, 2015 at 8:29 am

    Perhaps Kane’s only transgression was spending the night with the daughter of St. Louis Blues fans.

  • August 8, 2015 at 9:03 am

    Oh no you didn’t Tab!!!!!!!!

    The Donald….!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

    Oh the horror………

  • August 8, 2015 at 10:40 am

    Internet blogs are, in the best cases, places for common interest, discussion, comaraderie, but all too often the dialogue devolves into argumentative bloviation which escalates into personal attack. The combatants become oblivious to any sense of normal decorum and the effect their rage has on innocent bystanders who come to the blog for distraction but not that type of ugliness.

    I’m not judging anyone – I don’t know the details, nor the real life personalities involved, let alone what makes them tick or lights their fuse. And, this isn’t my first rodeo – these things happen all too often and they eventually go away or at least leave the “front page”. So I know this too shall pass.

    But, I think of this place as a kind of refuge, a place to come and sate my thirst for all things Blackhawks. A respite from the responsibilities of my real life. It’s where things that don’t affect my real life one iota can be elevated to matters of utmost importance in this fantasy world of Blackhawks fandom. Re-signing Kruger seemed all so important a couple days ago, but now the Sword of Damacles hangs over Kane, the Hawks organization and us fans and the mundane concerns of yesterday have become so trivial.

    I look forward to the day when things return to normalcy, even if that means a new normal. I want to stop by Tabs blog and join in dialogues of equanimity. I long for the distraction of hockey, not real world calamities and human ugliness.

  • August 8, 2015 at 11:46 am

    Very well stated Ebony!….Thanks for that. This whole thing is an unbelievable nightmare yet it is reality. Just the thought of the Blackhawk logo being a thing of shame for what could be an entire generation is beyond the beyond. I really don’t have good words or know what to say at this point…fans should stick together though and you have to feel for Rocky and Stan and Q, the victim involved in all of this and the city of Chicago.

  • August 8, 2015 at 3:04 pm

    The only way “the Blackhawk logo becomes a thing of shame” is if they respond poorly when the facts are laid out. The organization can’t police everything every player does. It’s how the Organization responds. The Hawks are bigger than Patrick Kane. This isn’t Fox “News” Mining Man. There has to be some substance involved!

  • August 8, 2015 at 4:11 pm

    Kudos to Tab for leaving the comments open and not shutting down the blog. Very refreshing in this political correctness/thought control / censorship happy society. If a person does not like the discourse how about the novel idea of not taking part and turning your computer off.

  • August 8, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    That’s The thing, true Blackhawks will cowboy up together when shit like this is talked about on mediA. We’re wearing our jerseys today in lake placid with pride and respect. People seem to care and arnt being flatlanders aBout it. People here are usually cool though can’t say that for the general public/us.

  • August 8, 2015 at 4:35 pm

    Heres to hoping you are right Brokerwayne…yes the Blackhawk are a lot more than Patrick Kane and there are many incredibly smart folks running the show and perhaps its enough to pave it over. My fear is that in this day and age of so many platforms of media ..well you get the point. Even non hockey fans know of Patrick Kane. The guy is huge, everywhere.

  • August 8, 2015 at 4:46 pm

    My point Mining Man is not “to pave anything over”. That connotes glossing over or not dealing with something. My point is if he has done something really foolish, or even worse, if he’s committed a felony, you release the SOB, not pay him, and move on. So far, just having “rape” and “Patrick Kane” in the same sentence is awful. The Blackhawks are waiting for things to come to light as should we all. Have a good evening!

  • August 8, 2015 at 4:51 pm

    That last post came from Brokerwayne. Typing on a laptop and the Name autopopulated by mistake and I didn’t catch it… sorry Mining Man!

  • August 8, 2015 at 5:18 pm

    Autopopulated? What the? In any case thats just fine …no problem Brokerwayne. Maybe we can start another round of going bonkers with Tabs “The Donald” comment! At least your politics is colouful and interesting…up here in the Great White North ( can we even say that anymore? ) we have a federal election upcoming this October for all the marbles and trust me on this one…it is boring and a real snoozer..send us Trump for a few weeks to get everyone engaged and riled up because we need it.

  • August 8, 2015 at 10:17 pm

    What is so sad about this is that the Hawks have worked so hard to bring pride back to the Indian Head and have done a tremendous job. A perfect example is the announcement of the new practice facility and other community projects designed for children. I can only hope that Kaner is proven innocent for his family. Go Blackhawks.

  • August 9, 2015 at 8:06 am

    Not sure how many “jocks” on our blog, but playing hockey and being among “jock mentality” myself, this “aggressive, late night, no way out . . . forced sex ” goes on. I never liked the attitude, aloofness and bully mentality. 99% of rape accusations are true, seldom does a women go to hospital, take the rape test and FAKE IT. I see a catastrophe coming for Kane, the bus to run him over is due.

    News Headline below

    New details emerged Sunday into the investigation of Chicago Blackhawks star Patrick Kane. The woman accusing the hockey star of rape reportedly had bite marks on her shoulders and a scratch on her leg, sources told The Buffalo News, which first reported the story. The report says the woman claims she and a friend went to Kane’s home in Hamburg after meeting him at SkyBar early Sunday morning. She says once there, he followed her into a room and overpowered her around 4 a.m., about an hour after Kane was seen leaving the bar. The report says she left with her friend and called relatives before going to a hospital for an examination. Local police were then alerted.

  • August 9, 2015 at 8:11 am

    I had hoped it was a “fool friend” but now it seems KANE is the target which is BAD NEWS . . . very bad news . . . period. He is going down and NOW we’ll see how good the Hawks GM and President really are? Even if it proves false he is going down.

    If it was “just” a sexual assault in KANES HOME and he did not know that is BAD ENOUGH but now it’s is Kane as the focus they will dig and the “brief women’s perspective” sounds sincere.

    I HATE JOCK MENTALITY . . . I hope this is not Exhibit A

    go hawks with or without kane

  • August 9, 2015 at 8:12 am

    Just saying . . . or asking . . . Say Kane is guilty or has to be suspended do the HAWKS re-coop his salary?

  • August 9, 2015 at 8:51 am

    MTM says- “99% of rape accusations are true”. Please supply the sources for your numbers.

  • August 9, 2015 at 9:23 am


    Thanks for leaving your comment thread open.

  • August 9, 2015 at 9:43 am

    If–IF–below is true…

    “New details emerged Sunday into the investigation of Chicago Blackhawks star Patrick Kane. The woman accusing the hockey star of rape reportedly had bite marks on her shoulders and a scratch on her leg, sources told The Buffalo News, which first reported the story. The report says the woman claims she and a friend went to Kane’s home in Hamburg after meeting him at SkyBar early Sunday morning. She says once there, he followed her into a room and overpowered her around 4 a.m., about an hour after Kane was seen leaving the bar. The report says she left with her friend and called relatives before going to a hospital for an examination. Local police were then alerted.”

    …then we’d have to believe he’s done and gone.

  • August 9, 2015 at 9:59 am

    MTM- love your hockey comments… but 99%??? stick to what you know…

    I read the article too… IT is NOT looking good- weather guilty OR innocent (Legally)

    1st seems there is huge amount of evidence that the sex happened
    2nd- bitemarks, scratches
    3rd- she immediately went for hospital tests
    these are all very negative for Kane

    On the other-side… seems interesting to me… that the 1st outside leaks are on “Kane’s behalf” from article…
    woman seen at Bar… flirting, stroking his arm… they were “keeping other women away” from Kane…
    Call me cynical– but almost looks like – the start of “mudslinging” (possibly approved by Defense???)… to dis-courage the lady- or show her “where” this will be going…

    Article- also says- woman left the room and went to another room… Kane followed… did she wink??? did she tip her head??? were there Kane/friends in that room- to “say” they saw a wink/head bob???

    Once again… I have NO CLUE- on Rape or not… Just suggesting that the Defense- is “Lining” up the potential- case to suggest- consent… and it will come down to he said/she said!!! and/or how much this woman wants to deal with…

    Ultimately- so Hard to prove- usually…

    But- I am suggesting– there is physical evidence (at least appears- to be)… the Kane group – knows it… and they have all ready started the — “are you sure you want to pursue this case- defense”… and all it is going to take is “reasonable doubt” for Kane to win… even if he is guilty

    But- real question for Hawks fans- what/when will the Hawks office/NHL begin to act/suspend???

    This is just so ugly – either way- for Hawks/Hockey/Chicago fans.

    If this doesn’t wake Kane up!!! nothing will!!!
    Sorry- if I am offending people who are in the “what about the victim” …
    I guess- without actually being there… I am in the “truth is somewhere in between both stories that are being told camp”… and we will never get total truth from either side… so – there it isn’t a cut and dry case… but degrees of Sexual assault…

    and this one of the reasons it is so hard to convict … so guessing this is where this is going… the question goes back to… when/where/will/should, the Hawks pull the plug on this guy???

  • August 9, 2015 at 10:04 am

    The same article you referenced Flatliner gave excerpts of the interview between The Buffalo News and Mark Croce the SkyBar owner. He said the woman was “hanging all over ” Kane and “being very forward”. He also said “it was almost like she stationed herself near him and was keeping other women away from him. I noticed it and kind of laughed about it”. The owner also said ” A lot of people were coming up to him asking to have pictures taken with him. He was a gentleman”. There may be more to this story than meets the eye.

  • August 9, 2015 at 10:05 am

    Persona non grata.

    Regardless of the outcome, this is a huge embarrassment to the Blackhawks organization. The number of children, girls and woman (and men) who wear the 88 will also be severely jaded by these events. But even those who don’t ( like myself ) will feel that the image of a championship team in every way is tarnished which makes me very sad.

    Even with the best possible outcome, make Kaner a Goner..let him stay in Buffalo. We’d probably get good (if not full) value back for him.

  • August 9, 2015 at 10:39 am

    Hawks1961, although your post includes some accurate quotes from the article I think you omitted an important detail. We don’t know whether the woman “hanging all over” Kane is the same woman he allegedly assaulted in his bedroom.

  • August 9, 2015 at 10:46 am

    If he’s found innocent, you keep him. I don’t know why everyone would drop him based on an accusation. We shouldn’t automatically side with the girl OR Kane. If a court of law doesn’t think he did it or did any wrongdoing, we should believe them. Kings kept Drew Doughty.

  • August 9, 2015 at 10:47 am

    I read the story in the Buffalo press. I agree with Hawks 1961 above. First off who knows what’s really true at this point. Second the version of events in the house as presented in the article struck me as very strange. A girl and her friend go to the house at 3am and then one is attacked while the other is still floating around the house as a witness. Huh? Of course maybe the other girl fell asleep or whatever but I think people really need to wait on all the facts before saying Kane is guilty.

  • August 9, 2015 at 10:54 am

    I should clarify my previous post. I assumed that the “room” the news article referred to was a bedroom. That has not been established.

  • August 9, 2015 at 11:11 am

    Please note that I won’t publish anything new here until there is something NEW worth publishing. Lots of rumors, reports and speculation flying around. And lots of opinions – many of which make me pray for the future of humanity. When/IF he’s charged, we’ll post a new story. until then, all that’s official is that Kane is being investigated.

  • August 9, 2015 at 11:18 am

    for those throwing 88 out of town already – how did the Kings handle similar allegations against Drew Doughty a couple summers ago?

  • August 9, 2015 at 11:22 am

    Let’s be honest. Kane is an arrogant prick off the ice. He always has been, and his transgressions of the past glossed over in the name of youth and immaturity. Buts he’s 26 years old and knows from his past problems that he’s got to keep it under control. And he can’t do it. And now he faces a potential rape charge and the end of his career. The blame rests squarely on Kane for carousing and drinking at clubs time after time after time. He likes being the center of attention and the perks that come with being a celebrity who likes to party. Clear he has a big problem with alcohol too. What I find really ironic is that he is always touting his mom, dad and 3 sisters as important in his life. Well, those parents have utterly failed Kane. I have no sympathy for justice raining down on his ass. The fate of the Blacckhawks will just be more collateral damage left in this prick’s wake. And I guess also that steady girlfriend of his was all just a facade. Either that or he treats her like garbage too.

  • August 9, 2015 at 11:23 am

    Tab, great minds think alike lol

  • August 9, 2015 at 11:26 am

    Thank you tab. I couldn’t agree more

  • August 9, 2015 at 11:57 am

    Also agree. All this speculation is pointless.

  • August 9, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    Tab, yes I know we don’t know enough about this situation to compare it to what happened to Doughty but in the recent termination of Mike Richards contract, I found this in another story (SPC standard player contract)

    “In a brief filed to the NHL and the NHLPA, the team referenced Section 2(e) of the SPC, which states a player agrees “to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally.””

    I just believe that the Blackhawks are a marquee organization revered even outside of the sport much more than the LA Kings, so the “world” will be watching how management handles it. It’s really unfortunate that it’s a star player and so much the face & future of the team but the team image has to come first.

  • August 9, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    Rufus- gotta agree with a lot of your sentiments… I bashed Kane after his horrible season/effort after 2010 cup… Always knew the kid has great skilled… but didn’t show work/effort/attitude… called for trade several times that year… then he appeared to grow up… and dedicate himself to Hockey… 2013 cup… and (I realize how uber-talented he really is- when he wants to prove it-and stays semi-clean)…

    Alas, he is human- and has made some more giant mistakes… But fool me once… shame on you… fool me twice shame on me… I wonder how Hawk’s brass will feel.

    On the Hawks/Hockey front-
    The more I think about Hawks- they MIGHT be better off without 88 and paying for 2 X $5M studs instead!!! BUT what really sucks is the Timing… imo- Hawks have 1-5 year window with this team to win Cups… Kane Putting Hawks on Hold/pending trial(s)/suits… SUBTRACTS 1-3 years possibly off of this window…
    this year shot due to “distraction/court”… outcome happens… Hawks office moves or void Kane after legal issues resolved… then Hawks have to “replace” 88’s $$$ with right guys…

    Like others have stated… unless there is 99.9% SWIFT clearing of Kane’s name/case here… 88 really just F^&**D!!! the Hawks…. for a couple years!!!
    How pissed would you be if you were 81,19,2,7,4????

  • August 9, 2015 at 12:19 pm

    Yeah… this reminds me of the Ben Ben Roethlisberger bullshit rape case a couple of years ago.
    Number 1 rule when raping…don’t have the friend of the victim there to witness the rape. That’s it for me. I don’t need any other facts, rumors and shit.

  • August 9, 2015 at 12:23 pm

    There are 3 sides to every story, in this instance there is PK’s story on 1 side & the victim’s story on the other side. In the middle is what truly happened & it’s the investigator(s) job to get as close to the middle story as possible.

    Let the investigation play out, all these leaks just make the investigators job more difficult.

    Until the Police or the Prosecutors office release details, everything put out there should be viewed with a healthy dose of skepticism…….

  • August 9, 2015 at 12:24 pm

    I’m in LA and nearly forgot about the Doughty incident. I can tell you there was very little in the press and I seem to recall it was resolved fairly quickly. LA is nowhere near Chicago in terms of the 24/7/365 interest in all things Hawks and Doughty didn’t have the prior issues that Kane has. I have no doubt that Kane will continue with the Hawks if he is not charged but this situation has a long way to go. I read that the woman has also hired a high powered Buffalo attorney. I would also be surprised if the Hawks didn’t add additional language to the standard conduct and morals clause given his prior incidents and the fact that the team was going to be committing $80m+ in the new contract.

  • August 9, 2015 at 12:38 pm

    I’ve got to believe whatever the “truth” is in this matter (the crime of rape, or someone trying to exploit Kane’s enormous immaturity and bad judgment) that Kane’s lawyer is working 24/7 to secure a settlement of some sort with this young lady. Really, it is the only way Kane has to salvage any hopes of a future with the Chicago Blackhawks, and more importantly, perhaps keeping him from facing criminal indictment and prison. The question becomes is there enough evidence there where the DA’s office isn’t going to dismiss charges regardless. And/or the victim is unwilling to let Kane’s celebrity and financial might get him off the hook, even if it means she walks away from a big payday. All I know is that my thoughts and prayers are with the victim and that I hope she follows what it proper and justified in this matter. If Kane raped her then I hope the DA presses charges and he is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    The Blackhawks? They are simply the recipients of the collateral damage done here. Which may cost this team’s competitiveness in the next several years dearly, but there are things more important in life than protecting a prick celebrity hockey player who has had multiple chances to redeem himself and now may have bitten off way more than he can chew.

    I think we have seen the last of Kane in an Indianhead sweater regardless how things play out in the next few weeks. The Hawks will seek to void his contract regardless how any criminal indictment goes. Meaning we all of a sudden have $10.5 M of cap money free to think about getting Seabrook signed to a new contract and money freed up to engineer a substantial trade or signing next offseason. The telltale sign in how Rocky Wirtz thinks will be when Kruger re-signs. Something tells me Kruger signs a new deal within 10 days, telegraphing that the Hawks are confident they can void Kane’s contract.

  • August 9, 2015 at 4:47 pm

    Manager at Skybar…” Kane was acting like a typical young guy his age, out having fun with some of his buddies. A lot of people were coming to him asking to have pictures taken with him. He was a gentleman. Pat had a couple of drinks and maybe a couple of shots. He was having a good time, but he wasn’t stumbling or doing anything obnoxious”

    Another person ( at the Skybar) tweets-“Pat Kane is shit bombed at the bar. Told me he was too bombed for a pic, so of course I snapped chat a pic of him anyway”.

    So 2 differing accounts already. Patron is probably overstating things and the Manager details a pretty level headed observation.

    We shall see and wait. Unless there is a stunning turnaround I believe the Blackhawks will trade away Patrick Kane regardless, unless of course he is charged in which case they will void his contract. I am hoping for the stunning turnaround.

  • August 9, 2015 at 6:06 pm

    Joey Zamboni’s comments are right on.

  • August 9, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    “The Hawks will seek to void his contract regardless hos any criminal indictment goes” – no. They’ll investigate ways to void his contract if he is found guilty. To think otherwise is naive.

  • August 9, 2015 at 6:36 pm

    Agree. Just speculating here but if there is a trial, all things being equal, a lot would depend on the jurisdiction/venue of the proceedings as well as the perceived reputation of the accused celebrity-athlete. Of course, a lot depends on the facts of any particular case, but Kobe Bryant and Mike Tyson faced similar situations. Kobe had a good reputation and was tried in Eagle, CO, a recreational destination just west of Vail. Tyson had a bad reputation and was tried in Indianapolis, a conservative, Midwestern venue.

    Although I have been to Buffalo I don’t have a good sense as to the cultural/political environment. However, Kane’s party-boy reputation will not serve him well if he ever has to face trial.

  • August 9, 2015 at 7:20 pm

    Yes of course Tab, better and clearly stated words….was struggling with how to say it and it didnt come out the way it should but should not have left it like that. The whole damn thing is just a nightmare.

  • August 9, 2015 at 8:04 pm

    Criminal indictment? Calling her a victim? Nothing has come out yet. No one knows what happened until we hear evidence. And all of this nonsense about voiding contracts is way premature. This speculation is ridiculous and serves only one purpose, to make those who do it feel like they have something of substance to share with the rest of us when in fact they do not. Unless you were a fly on the wall at Kane’s house that night and are able to convey what you witnessed in something other than buzzing sounds, I have no interest in hearing anything more until the facts are revealed. Over and definitely out.

  • August 10, 2015 at 9:14 am

    Just because the DA’s office may or may not file charge’s doesn’t mean illegal activity did not happen inside the house by Kane or outside the house with false allegations by the young lady or ladies. The DA will not file charges on a high profile subject unless the evidence is very strong where they have an excellent chance they will get a conviction.
    Kane must stop putting himself in these type of positions. Get a steady girlfriend, or a f@@k buddy, or a high end discreet call girl (well maybe not a call girl). You know Kane’s family, his agent, the Blackhawks, and Blackhawk fans are all disappointed. One night stands as a high profile athlete are not worth the risk, Every team cautions rookies of these situations and Kane is far from a rookie very poor judgment by Kane.

  • August 10, 2015 at 10:14 am

    Understandably, there has been a lot of conjecture over the ongoing criminal investigation. However, there is one element of this story that has been overshadowed as a result. This is Kane’s well-documented use of alcohol. Obviously, I don’t really know the extent of this use but I suspect he imbibes frequently and perhaps to excess.

    Why is this an issue? There have been numerous cases of gifted athletes whose careers suffered due to excessive alcohol consumption. Remember Theo Fleury and Derek Sanderson. Many of these situations have been covered up by their teams and even friendly media. Kane may be 26 now and think that he is bullet-proof. But if you were the Hawks, would you want a player, starting a huge eight year contract, with an ongoing alcohol issue?

  • August 10, 2015 at 11:57 am

    I long for the time when we were discussing the Hawks’ cap problem, grading the Sharp trade, the development of our young players, etc. I can hardly express how frustrated and sad I am over the Kane disaster. There is too much speculating going on in this thread on what happened. But from what we know right now even the best case scenario is not a good outcome for our beloved Hawks.

  • August 10, 2015 at 12:06 pm

    Are we not talking about Sam Jardine anymore?

  • August 10, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    Just like Trump running for president…….This is a HUGE UNWANTED distraction. I hope they get to the bottom of this this quickly.

    BTW….how are negotiations with Kruger? Did Bickell get traded? Who’d we get?

  • August 10, 2015 at 1:09 pm

    “Better to appear a fool and say nothing, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.” This is an old saying that many here should consider before they begin spouting off about something they have no knowledge of.

    Too many have written the Blackhawks off way too early in the season and here you are writing #88 off way too early in this ordeal.

    It seems like some of you read too many tabloids and are inherently cynical. Just go to the top of the page and READ the title that was given to the article and just think about it for awhile. At this point in the investigation nobody knows which way the evidence will point, if Kane is exonerated I hope those that have already started pointing the finger, feel like the bloody fools they are.

  • August 10, 2015 at 5:10 pm

    I think an important topic is just how long it takes the Buffalo authorities to decide if they will proceed with charges. I say this because if the early stages of the legal process are drawn out, that will drag into the preseason and early season. Even if people are just waiting to see if charges are filed, that is a major distraction for the organization. It will be difficult, I would think, to have Kane around and proceed with getting down to hockey business. He’ll be such a fan target in every city, and being with the squad will provide a circus atmosphere, even at home. I agree that speculation as to what Kane did or did not do, and whether he will be gone for good, etc. is premature. However, there is a season coming up and it’s going to be interesting, and perhaps painful, to see how the Blackhawks get moving into training camp and beyond. It does not look like the authorities are in a great hurry. And, I don’t blame them. This is one case where there will be lots of scrutiny and they will want to get it right.

  • August 10, 2015 at 5:46 pm

    Yes, Kane’s upcoming status with the team cannot be the status quo. It would indeed be a media circus and a mess going to other cities. It will be interesting to see how Rocky and Co. handle this. It is a sad state of affairs and I feel for them all. Agree that it will take a while.

    Should Kane get through all of this and all is well again I would propose the following. During the offseason Kane is chaperoned each day by a Commited Indian, ,,we each get assigned a day or two. Kind of like the Swiss guard with the Pope! Maybe we coud even get spiffy outfits. In any case we are allowed to sit on him if we have to. Cannot think of a more dedicated and motivated group than ourselves.

    ( I’m just being cynical here…relax )

  • August 10, 2015 at 5:58 pm

    As one of those “fools” BarryB may be referring to, my comments are only my opinion based only on the fact that Kane is being investigated for rape. Just that headline hurts the BlackHawks organization that has successfully sold itself as both a winner and a huge family-friendly asset to the Chicago, the NHL and all of professional sports.

    Regardless of the outcome, do you think the number of #88 jerseys at the United Center and charity events and the demographics of those wearing them won’t change? I think that’s a problem.

  • August 10, 2015 at 6:07 pm

    Maybe he’s found guilty. That spiffy new 10.5 million dollar contract is voided. And the hawks re-sign him for half that.

    Yeah didn’t think so.

    What’s far more likely than the Hawks doing what the Kings did to Richards, is what the NHL did to Slava Voynov. The league doesn’t need a guilty verdict to do what they want with Kane. The main reason the league has sat on their hands is because its the preseason and they can sit on their hands.

    In light of new reports on what happened. I must ask the question. If this girl wanted money. Why would she go through all the trouble to get everybody involved. If it was money she was after she could have extorted the hell out of this, kept quiet and everyone would continue to be oblivious. Something happened. Rape…or just rough drunk sex? That’s the question. In a court of law there may not be enough evidence. However, a civil suit most certainly will come forth and a judgement, assuming those are his bitemarks, would go to the victim. Nobody wins in a civil suit. Victim is still the victim.

  • August 10, 2015 at 6:08 pm

    *offseason, damn autocorrect.

  • August 10, 2015 at 6:12 pm

    Mining Man, I like the idea of being a chaperone. However, I’ve seen how some of us act here and I don’t think we’re all that much more mature than he is.

  • August 10, 2015 at 9:07 pm

    Mining Man – that’s a great idea, especially the part about spiffy outfits. My vote goes for Buckingham Palace Guard outfits so we get to wear those huge furry looking hats, kinda like Fred Flintstone’s Water Buffalo Lodge hat without the horns.

  • August 10, 2015 at 9:53 pm

    Regardless how the investigation plays out its clear that irreparable damage has been done to the relationship between Kane and the Blackhawks, and Kane and the fans. The mere mention of the word “rape” eliminates all goodwill accumulated, especially for someone in Kane who has had dust ups in the past and a reputation for being an immature prick who can’t handle his liquor off the ice.

    This is real bad for the Blackhawks. Don’t kid yourself on that. I’m sure a dismayed and angry Wirtz family and McDonough are locked in closed door meetings with league officials and a bunch of lawyers. They are coming up with contingency plans and responses for when the shoe drops with the DA assigned to this case in NY. And you can also bet the ranch Kane’s team of lawyers are working around the clock on a defense should Kane be arrested and criminal suit be filed while ALSO working hard to sell the victim’s legal team on a big $ settlement to stave off a civil suit which would be very public and further ugly for Kane.

    My thoughts and prayers remain with the victim. As the facts tricke out i find increasingly difficult to believe this can be a highly complicated and orchestrated ploy to get rich at Kane’s expense. Kane mightily fucked up.

  • August 10, 2015 at 9:54 pm

    Ernie, if Bert were twice as smart as you he would still know absolutely nothing.

  • August 10, 2015 at 10:16 pm

    Thanks Pete. Would you care to share what I said that makes you question my intelligence or lake of apparently? Or do you just want to start another shit throwing contest. I can’t change my name. It’s who I am. I’ve dealt with people like you my whole life, who are so insecure about themselves that they resort to making fun of someone’s name. I got it more when I was in kindergarten, but occasionally people like yourself like to point out the uniqueness of it. It used to bother me. It still does, but for a completely different reason. I was very shy as a child and some of that I think can be attributed to being made fun of for something so trivial.

    Now it bothers me because, well I’m assuming your an adult. And rather than tell me why I’m an idiot you have to resort making fun of my name. How am I supposed to have a conversation or debate with an adult when they act like a 5 year old.

  • August 10, 2015 at 10:27 pm

    Pete- be nice, enough mud slinging here as of late…Ernie is a solid contributor.

    Rufus- Well stated…you are 100% correct, that is exactly what is going on. It is dark days for the Blackhawk organization, and the league. This will be handled very carefully despite an outcome. Just..Why? why, why, why, why…thats just me in agony.

    Ebony- its difficult to keep a semblance of humor but you got that with the hat! How about pictures of Tab for the shoulder patches.

  • August 10, 2015 at 10:35 pm

    Here is what I am cooking … NHL suspends Kane…

    Hawks have a couple of bad Injuries… and finish near the bottom of the NHL w/ all the distractions…

    2016 Hawks get 1st pick Auston Mathews– Broke Kane’s scoring Records for USA program…

    Kane is forgotten and Mathews and Hawks are a dynasty -once again!!!

    Tkachuk kid is pretty good too!!!

  • August 10, 2015 at 10:52 pm

    Ernie since you are taking my joke personally, I will take it back. However, I don’t agree with your analysis. In the law business we would say there is a lack of foundation to support your opinions. Also I don’t agree with posts that essentially rule out scenario’s where Kane did nothing wrong. That’s unfair. When the evidence is known then we all will have foundations for our opinions.

  • August 11, 2015 at 12:44 am

    Wall – “Hawks have a couple of bad Injuries… and finish near the bottom of the NHL w/ all the distractions…2016 Hawks get 1st pick Auston Mathews” — WHY is the present — three Cups in the last 6 years never good enough? I apologize if I missed the humor, but, considering your comments over the years…? Maybe it plays-out that Kane, despite fucking-up at least three previous times is the real “victim” – “See also: Roethlisberger, Kobe, Doughty” – and, the Hawks somehow manage to “Live Happily Ever After”. I haven’t commented about this until now, but the story really smells like bullshit. And, has the media EVER failed to grab some SHIT and run with it? There were allegations of “under aged”,
    “statutory rape”(, ” bestiality”, and “cannibalism”)…oh well, just a slow news day?

  • August 11, 2015 at 12:55 am

    It is a sad state of affairs that in this country any person is considered guilty until proven innocent. This is not the American way. This guilty until proven innocent was one of the hallmarks of Napoleon’s dictatorship in France. Those who claim to be judge, jury, and executioner are unamerican. Our founding fathers fought and bled and gave their lives so that we could live in a free country with unalienable rights that nobody can take away from them, not even bloggers on committed indians. This lynch mob seems intent on lynching PK. A lynch mob is a perfect democracy. The majority wants to hang the guy and the minority doesn’t want to get hung. The sheriff confronts the lynch mob and tells them that he has a right to trial by jury and the vote must be unanimous. No democracy. One vote can save him. Let’s live as free Americans and see to it that all people, including PK, have these rights. Our founding fathers must be turning over in their grave from some of the comments posted here. I like the motto of the state of New Hampshire: “live free or die”.

  • August 11, 2015 at 6:49 am

    Dickie, you’re right but no big deal. That’s just what Wall does, he’s always concocting up what-if’s. I tuned him out after his constant “shoulda kept Jimmy Hayes, we could’ve then signed Kevin Hayes” rants last season.

    And Ernie, with all due respect, for all your moral high ground remarks on how this thread should go, you somehow deduce Pete is insecure with himself and acting like a 5 year old because you’re touchy about your name, which I happen to think is a very cool name anyway. The Importance of Being Ernest.

    As for Kane, we continue to wait for official information, which is what should have been done in the first place.

  • August 11, 2015 at 7:41 am

    I find it ironic that so many on this board are complaining about Kane’s lack of maturity while acting like kindergarteners themselves.

    Meanwhile, some are actually advocating that the defending Stanley Cup champion bottom out enough to get the #1 pick?

    I’ve spent 4 days shaking my head and it’s more because of these comments than the story they’re attached to.

  • August 11, 2015 at 9:12 am

    Tab- Not suggesting Hawks Bottom out…

    I will go back to what I said earlier… Unless 99% – Kane was NOT at fault (and there are 100’s of shades of Grey/guilt/innocence here)… Kane MAY be done as a Hawk-
    OR at very least… this could be a huge distraction/loss of 1-2 seasons (which really Screws the Hawks)… I am just looking for a Possible Good outcome for Hawk fans- given the real possibility that this Will be a huge distraction/and Hawk’s FO is tired of being in this position…

    One real possibility, no charges, civil suit- pursued, Hawks part ways-

    SB- has all ready pulled Panarin and Dano out of thin air… perhaps he can pull Mathews out of his hat… Kane – gone… and they still have around $9M to spend…
    Hawks- would be better… and Hawks FO can sleep at nite…

    Of course- Kane could be 100% innocent, and HOF- was right- this lady could be a gold-digger…

    But odds are- truth in between… and will be an on-going situation… which costs Hawks a season or two of Cup chances… NOT predicting- just guessing-

  • August 11, 2015 at 9:15 am

    Items everyone is ignoring:

    1) Kane’s new deal has a NTC
    2) Kane’s new deal has the highest cap hit in the NHL
    3) there is no guarantee the Hawks would receive ANY cap help by parting ways with Kane.
    4) trading Kane assumes there is
    a) a team he would accept a trade to
    b) with enough cap space to take him AND
    c) that still wants him given the current accusations

    Reality: there is no easy way out for the Chicago Blackhawks.

  • August 11, 2015 at 9:47 am

    (Cut & pasted from Rufus, not my typos)
    My thoughts and prayers remain with the victim. As the facts tricke out i find increasingly difficult to believe this can be a highly complicated and orchestrated ploy to get rich at Kane’s expense. Kane mightily fucked up.

    Rufus – The ONLY FACT that has been released is that there is an investigation of a sexual assault that may have occurred at PK’s residence, possibly involving PK.

    EVERYTHING else being put out there is speculation at best and mis-direction & out right lies at worst.

    I do agree with your empathy for the victim, she deserves support and assistance from the justice system, however all the “leaks” are not helping.

    We may never know what truly happened, but we must let the process continue & trust the investigators to be impartial & professional.

    Sadly like the “Hands up don’t shoot” narrative, people will believe what they want to believe even in the face of irrefutable proof…….

  • August 11, 2015 at 10:49 am

    And the investigation is not over yet. No conclusions from the DA have been stated publicly. What if Kane ends up being the victim? Then your empathy Joey will have been misplaced. We just need to wait.

  • August 11, 2015 at 11:05 am

    Uh boy…… we’re already riding Kaner out of town? Let’s slow down, take a breath and relax a bit.

    We need to let this play out. I am not going to judge him for what he does off the ice because nobody is perfect and people screw up…….some more than others. In my mind I just don’t see Patrick Kane purposely hurting a living soul, but THAT IS JUST MY OPINION. If, in fact, something did happen and he is responsible, let the law decide his punishment, not public opinion.

    However, jumping to conclusions and accusations does not help anyone, especially the die hard hockey fans.

  • August 11, 2015 at 12:50 pm

    Apologies to Pete. I had a very eloquent reply prior to this, got pulled away and lost it. I equated his “joke” to what those “jokes” meant growing up. Bullying. My morals are no higher than anyone else’s here. If you disagree with something I wrote. Fine. After all, I’m just a dumb welder (who also operates a cnc cutting machine, so if anyone wants a cool metal Hawks logo…).

    I see this turning into a similar situation to Roethlisberger. Unless Kane has surveillance one way or the other. I see it going similar to the Roethlisberger situation where he isnt charged because I think it’s going to be hard to prove it was rape rather than sex. Having said that just because a criminal case may not come that doesnt entirely exonerate Kane and the alleged victim can still file a civil suit. Just like the Roethlisberger case.

    I dont believe the Hawks can or will do anything. However, the NHL could and may suspend him. If the NHL suspends Kane, the Hawks would temporarily get cap relief until he would return.

  • August 11, 2015 at 12:51 pm

    4 days until the Russo sweepstakes.

  • August 11, 2015 at 1:15 pm

    Reggie, liquor does a lot to impair ones judgment. I should have said, “a sober Patrick Kane doesn’t look like he would hurt a living soul”. My bad.

  • August 11, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    Ernie, how much do you charge for said cool metal Blackhawks logos? I promise not to tell anyone so we don’t get sued for trademark infringement.

  • August 11, 2015 at 5:14 pm

    It’s amazing the level of excuse making some people will go to on Patrick Kane. If this were Daniel Carcillo (who is actually a real class act off the ice) or some other schlep on the roster then the pitchfork and torches would have been out in complete force. But it’s not. Rather it’s that superstar hockey player who is a lovable scamp and can do no wrong in the eyes of too many. “It must have been a big misunderstanding”…”this broad is out to make a buck”…”Kane is a national hockey hero and how dare you besmirch his good name”.

    The guy is a douche bag. He’s been a douche bag for a long time. But a douche bag that is an enormously talented and successful hockey player, so his douchebaggery is forgiven.

    Pass the vomit bag.

  • August 11, 2015 at 6:33 pm

    how does Big Earl feel about 88? Wish he would open up…

  • August 11, 2015 at 8:26 pm

    Chevrier- I typically just give em away, to select friends and family just for that reason. I had a customer that saw it and had me make him a couple tables that he was going to auction off at a charity event after the players signed it. He ran into a girl that works for the Hawks marketing department and gave me her card if I ever run into an issue. I have a one that I made stick off the wall a bit then put red LED lights behind it. Looks wicked in the dark.

  • August 11, 2015 at 10:00 pm

    i can not imagine what one’s brain would endure if subjected to these 250 comments from start to end. Rufus would you like to read aloud to the class today?

    no judging of anyone for me thanks, i’m not qualified.

  • August 11, 2015 at 10:12 pm

    “My thoughts and prayers remain with the victim.”

    Rufus, the most accurate and objective term for the woman in this case is “accuser.” If the facts show she’s a liar and a gold digger, then she was never the victim, and Kane in fact was. Since we don’t know what happened, we don’t yet know who the victim is.

    In this matter, I wish you’d just bite your tongue for awhile because you have no idea what the facts are.

  • August 12, 2015 at 12:15 am

    We may never know with any level of certainty exactly what happened behind the closed doors of this story but what this story makes abundantly clear is the lemming impulse to rush to the nearest blog and put your faux outrage on record. It’s important everyone knows where you stand on this, dearth of facts and evidence notwithstanding. It’s important to be seen as a fellow lemming … er … I mean a fellow enlightened person who knows when and what to be aghast about, especially when everyone else things so. Group think is so cool when you’re part of the group.

    Or maybe accusations and character assassinations are inappropriate at this time and nobody cares to read umpteen lemming reports … well, except for the lemmings, of course.

  • August 12, 2015 at 12:31 am

    Flatliner you hit a home run with that last comment. Well said!

  • August 12, 2015 at 9:54 am

    @Ernie – this is one of the things I love about Tab’s blog and commenters. After 254(!??!?!) comments of conjecture, innuendo and some truly insane playground theatrics, we find that Ernie does some really @$#^ing cool Hawks related work in his spare time. I love it. Stick taps to you Ernie.

    I work at a bank. I could like, open an account for you I guess. I think we have some Blackhawks branded credit cards and checks around here somewhere…

  • August 12, 2015 at 12:07 pm

    …Ya, pretty much I suppose.

    Nice to see Ryandale is still with us.

  • August 12, 2015 at 3:07 pm

    re: Chevrier’s commenat about Ernie – HELL YEAH! Awesome

  • August 12, 2015 at 3:57 pm

    Appreciate the comments guys. I’ve got a machine that cuts metal and for a 65 dollar sheet of steel I can cut 10 of these things at 12 minutes per sign. I couldn’t not cut something out to show my fandom.

  • July 29, 2021 at 2:34 am

    Yes, we shouldn’t jump to conclusions but this does indicate Kane’s apparent proclivity to put himself in a position where there is a police investigation of an alleged criminal matter.
    And Ernie, with all due respect, for all your moral high ground remarks on how this thread should go, you somehow deduce Pete is insecure with himself and acting like a 5 year old because you’re touchy about your name, which I happen to think is a very cool name anyway. The Importance of Being Ernest.
    it is important for any one to get armed and unarmed guard service

  • August 10, 2021 at 8:00 am

    The fact that Kane has a tendency to place himself in a situation where a police investigation of an alleged criminal problem underway does imply that we shouldn’t leap to conclusions.
    Because you’re bothered by your name, which I happen to think is a really great name, you somehow conclude Pete is uncomfortable and acting like a 5-year-old. Ernest’s Importance in Life.
    Armed and unarmed security services are vital for anybody.

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