Report: Ryan Kesler Wants Chicago (or Pittsburgh)
According to a report, Vancouver Canucks center Ryan Kesler wants to be traded and “only wants to go to either” the Blackhawks or Pittsburgh Penguins.
Kesler, who will turn 30 at the end of August, has two years remaining on a deal with a $5M cap hit. Since Vancouver played in the 2011 Cup Final, Kesler has posted 49 and 43 points in two 77-game (non-lockout) regular seasons; he had 75 and 73 points in the 2009-10 and 2010-11 seasons, respectively, and played 82 games in each of those campaigns.
He won 52.6 percent of more than 1,400 faceoffs this past season, and was credited with 98 hits, 45 blocked shots and 31 takeaways. The winner of the 2011 Selke Trophy averaged 2:12 of short-handed ice time last year, the most of any Vancouver forward.
If Kesler has indeed requested a trade to only Chicago or Pittsburgh, that hurts the Canucks’ leverage in negotiations with either team. Unfortunately for Vancouver, both teams have issues with the cap moving forward.
As we pointed out when discussing the potential for Jason Spezza to be a trade target, the key number with any significant transaction for the Hawks this summer is the impact the addition will have on the cap in 2015-16 – when the new contracts of Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane (and Brandon Saad) hit the books. Unlike Spezza, Kesler would make a $5M dent in the Hawks’ future cap room.
YES YES YES. THIS IS THE GUY WE NEED. MAKE IT HAPPEN STAN
Tab you aren’t writing this to mess with my heart are you? What kind of package do you think would make sense? I know pitt had big cap concerns as well. Have to think we see the better landing point from keslers perspective
I would rather see hawks keep sharp and move him to center. Why trade assets for a 30 year old, injury riddled, 5 million a year player? Is kesler that much of an upgrade over trying sharp at center?
What if sharp isn’t included? Kesler is much better than sharp defensively and close offensively.
I love Sharp but if it is straight up Kesler for Sharp SB has to do it. a 30 year old with 2 years at $5.0mm for a 32 year old with 3 years left at $5.9mm. Problem: Vancouver will want more than just Sharp. A prospect or draft choices will have to go as well. That may not be bad, but Sharp can decline that trade.
“I love Sharp but if it is straight up Kesler for Sharp SB has to do it.”
So it’s a slam dunk for you to give up a 78-point player for a 43-point player who has injury issues JUST because he wins faceoffs?
I’ve said it before and will say it again: Kesler would be a 3C in Chicago in 2015-16 making $5M. Personally, I pass on him all day.
I hardly think Vancouver is in a position to demand. They have only 2 teams they can deal with.
I think Kesler is good – no doubt…and should last thru the remainder of his contract. I will let Stan worry about the Cap. My problem is the alleged (rumors) asking price – RIDICULOUS. (…as in, Saad and Teravainen aren’t going anywhere?)
The question is what will Pitt offer. If James Neal is in that deal, then we are probably screwed any way. But if he is not I see no reason why we should include Sharp.
This is exactly what I reported here after the Olympics…It is no secret and no longer mere speculation that Kane was overly frustrated with having to play without a “real” 2nd line Centre. Also, Kesler wants to win now and wants to play on a line with Kane. Now, the question is what do the Hawks want to do about this? I can guarantee all of you this, if the deal is made with Vancouver, it will cost us a ton to have Vancouver move Kesler within the same conference to their biggest rival. It will have to involve 2 current Hawk players, TT and likely Oduya (as CAP space has to be made). On top of that it will cost another top prospect NOT on the Hawks roster, and high draft picks. So again, is Bowman willing to part with TT and what he MIGHT become for Ryan Kesler and what he is?
Some of you here have pointed out that Kesler’s offensive production (about .65 p pg) is not worth this kind of salary or haul…but that’s where you are WRONG. Winning NHL championships isn’t about regular season scoring stats…just ask the LA Kings and Justin (I just scored 9 goals in the playoffs & am the Conn Smythe winner) Williams. Kesler is a formidable Centre who excels at EVERY aspect of his game and is VERY HARD to play against. Based on his age and his injuries, I think it is safe to say that Kesler has at least 3 more years of top notch hockey left in him. Now, is that worth giving up TT, Oduya, and future draft picks (and may include Clendening and the negotiation rights to Kevin Hayes)??? No one knows right now…but I think it is safe to say, the Hawks wouldn’t be hurt by this deal. A Blackhawks team with Toews, Kesler, Shaw and Kruger down the middle makes us the deepest in the NHL…plus we can (and need to) replace Oduya internally right now with a combination of Clendening and Dahlbeck. There is no downside for the Hawks, because even if TT goes on to a level of the Sedin’s in Vancouver, and Clendening is a star, having Kesler and winning say 2 more Cups over the next 4 years is MORE than worth it. Kesler will give the LA Kings problems, because Kopitar and Doughty have to play against Toews. This makes us instantly better than the Kings and Bruins, which is all that should matter right now.
So for me, I am fine if the Hawks stand pat, as this is the system that Bowman has put in place and I know that TT and Clendening are going to be very good hockey players…lock up the core and promote from within. But if we do go out and make this deal, I would also be more than fine, because Ryan Kesler isn’t just some kind of average player or over priced prima donna, Kesler is the real deal…he plays hockey at the highest level and that wins championships…getting Kesler means that the Hawks will likely win 2 more Cups in the next few years…is that worth a massive loss of system talent and picks (TT, Oduya or Leddy, perhaps Clendening, Kevin Hayes, and our 1st next year)??? That is question the Bowmans are asking themselves right now.
Ryan Kesler is a prima donna in every sense of the word. He hasn’t been healthy in 3 years and is an under-50-point player. This isn’t speculation or opinion, it’s fact. If the Hawks traded Teravainen for Kesler they would regret it the same way Philly fans wish they could have Patrick Sharp back.
How many championships has Kesler won – at any level – ever? He’ll be 30 when this season starts. Even if the alleged sources of some of us claim it has to get done for Kane to be happy, I pass on this all day
(Unless they take Bickell & Oduya straight up. Then it’s game-on w/out thinking for a second)
what could/will Pittsburgh offer? Great question. Do they try to rid themselves of Kris Letang? That would be a good play by both sides, though I would think Vancouver would prefer Maata with Sutter.
If Kesler has indeed given the Canucks 2 teams he’ll accept a trade to, that limits their options and destroys their leverage… especially w/ those 2 teams not having much/any cap flexibility.
Sr. Brad so you are saying the price will be TT and 3 hawks? That is crazy. I do not think they can get that much for a guy who has limited their options to 2 teams. We just have to have an offer that is better than Pittsburgh. I think it will be high, but your price is a bit higher than I expect.
re: Kesler’s alleged postseason excellence…
In 57 career NHL playoff games, he has 12 goals and 26 assists (0.67 pts/gm).
Remove the 2011 postseason….
In 32 NHL playoff games, Kesler has 5 goals and 14 assists (0.59 pts/gm).
At the 2014 Winter Olympics, when these rumors started flying, Kesler had 1 goal and 3 assists in 6 games. He had 2 of his 3 assists vs CZE.
Ryan Kesler of 2009-2011 was an elite player who could impact both ends of the rink (in spite of being a prima donna). But his postseason exploits have been blown out of proportion by Brad, and he hasn’t been healthy in 3 years.
Tab there are a lot of rumblings that they are trying to deal Neal. Think this is a spot for that? They have a lot of questions with orpik jussi etc….. I think we can get this done.
I def would not be willing to give Brad’s deal, but if the price is right I think we can get it done. I think an oduya, a pick, and the rights to hayes is reasonable
Let me be clear, if this deal is done, TT will be gone, not Sharp or Saad. For the Hawks, Saad is UNTOUCHABLE, I guarantee this. For the Canucks, adding a 33 year old Sharp for Kesler doesn’t make any sense to them. No, if this deal is done, the centre piece for Vancouver will be TT and prospects.
And Tab, as for Kesler and Sharp, if it came to that, you make the deal. Sharp is a goal scorer, and the Hawks can score goals. Kesler is a tenacious player that is HARD to play against. He does everything well, including hitting, skating, passing, scoring, defence, blocking shots, winning F/Os, plus Kesler can excel on BOTH S Ts and can handle skating 20+ minutes a night. To simply try and write off Kesler as a 43 point man is negligent. This past year Kesler had 25 goals but only 18 assists…what would his assists look like playing next to Kane?
Since the 2007-2008 season, Kesler has played in 497 games, Sharp 481. Sharp has had just as many injuries as Kesler. Sharp is 3 years older. Since this time Kesler has scored 164 goals playing Centre with rotating wingers, Sharp has 194 goals playing wing skating predominately with Jonathan Toews, even Patrick Kane.
I love Sharpy, he’s a true sniper and he’s committed to team defence…but Kesler is a better, more rounded, more valuable player. And you will not find a tougher guy, more willing to play through pain than Ryan Kesler. He’s 6’2″ 205, fast, hits everything in sight, dominates at the dot, and will throw down his gloves to defend a team mate. That’s not Patrick Sharp (again, who I love as a player). So no one should try and defend the argument that Sharp is a better player than Kesler…its simply not true.
Tab- I agree on Kesler… you can’t mortgage your future on a 30 yr. Old- who really hasn’t won… Stats prove that Majority of NHL players start their downfalls around 30 yrs. old -( unless player is truly lock HOF type- like Hoss, Selanne, Jagr, etc.) – the fact is – I wouldn’t consider Kesler as HOF guy… been injured…
While I do see instant gratification of 2-3 legit cup runs w/ him…
Hawks- can probably make same runs- if SB makes some Mid-level tweaks ( Boyle, Bolland- types) or Hawks get lucky w/ 2-3 prospects really blossoming like 65/20…
THE ONLY CONCERN- Is Kane pulling a Wade/Heat thing here w/ demands of courting “his guys”- OR he will not sign!!! That is the Wild card!!!
Assuming Kane will re-sign (and is not being a Dick!!!)… the Hawks can/will be better off getting Vermette/Boyle/Ras-MOOSE types to “fill” in the void…
Canucks don’t have to trade Kesler now. His value while good, isn’t what it could be. If I’m Stan, I certainly inquire about what it might take to acquire him. I’d rather not trade Sharp, but the Hawks have guys now that can play left wing in the top 6. I think you write this last year off for Kesler as far as point totals. Tortorella screwed that team and getting an accurate assessment on where players are at after 2013/2014 might be tough to do.
I don’t think the Canucks trade him, just because he’s asked for a trade. I think they ride at least part of the year out hoping to have a bounce back year and get more for him under his final year. Just because he’s asked for a trade doesn’t mean they grant it. He’s not the only one holding paper in that partnership.
Again, I’m certainly inquiring. If you could get it done with a Bickell, Leddy, Hayes I would certainly do it. Most likely they’re going to ask for Clendening, Johns, or Dahlbeck and I’m not sure how I feel about letting one of those go. If I had to pick one to make it work I would probably go with Clendening. I’m not sure how his game translates at the NHL level. He might be too risk/reward.
Sr. Brad and Tab…… the true Kesler lies in between you two. LOL. I think you guys are at opposite ends on this one. I think for the right price this is a great pick up, but Brad, your price is a little high by anyone’s standard. If it is TT then that is all you get. Thats an interesting deal for both ends with each team inheriting a lot of risk. Age/injury with Kesler, Youth/size/inexperience with TT. I think we can keep TT out and still get him though. But I submit to my initial point. It all depends on what Pitt puts on the table.
Brad is clearly still talking about the Ryan Kesler of 2009-11… Kesler hasn’t been fast or hit everything in sight in 3 years.
“Sharp has had just as many injuries as Kesler” – of course, the difference between these claims is that Sharp’s point production has been consistent… and Kesler’s has been cut in half. That’s my concern. Here are the points produced over the last 4 82-game regular seasons:
Sharp: 66-71-69-78
Kesler: 75-73-49-43
You can sugarcoat Kesler’s stats any way you want, Brad, but those four numbers are a serious concern for me if I’m giving him $5M each for the next two years. Blame the roster in Vancouver being terrible this year if you want, but his production disappeared in 2011-12 when that wasn’t the case.
Tab, you said befero that Kesler will be 3th centren in 15/16. Who´s second in your eyes?
I do agree with you that he´s prima donna and could be cancer in the locker room. But Hawks locker room seems to be stronger that Pitsburghs.
I don´t agree with healt issues, except of last season he always played 75+ games.
I also hope that Stan don´t get fooled and overbit too much, there are plenty another centers this year, in fact center is only position in this year market that have more sellers (trade+UFAs) then buyers. Price will fall down.
Furthermore, if it takes Teravainen to make this deal happen, I would be surprised if Bowman returned a voicemail. Not happening.
oduya/leddy, pick, prospect (hayes/dahlbeck/johns)
I still think that pitt tries to include Neal, and if we are not offering any of TT or Sharp or any center piece really, then I do not believe we will get him.
Wow Tab, how you try and dismiss what is and embellish what isn’t. Kesler has had only 1 long post season run in VAN, and that’s not Kesler’s fault…he is/was the exact kind of player the Nuckleheads needed more of…not the Sedin sisters…during the Cup run of 2011, Kesler killed us in the 1st round, and was the difference in that series. And against the Bruins he almost single handedly willed VAN to the win, when so many of his team mates simply didn’t show any heart against the Bruin’s constant banging. If the Nucks won game 7, Kesler was your Conn Smythe winner. In 2010, he has 10 points in 12 playoff games…in 2012 he had 3 assists in 5 playoff games and in 2013 he had 2 goals in 4 playoff games. So how am I embellishing his worth, when you are clearly discounting it. If you are not a hockey player then you can’t possibly know what Kesler’s game means to a team. Its huge. He’s a leader and a force…he would take a TON of weight off of Toews shoulders and make us tougher in an instant. He’s put us over the top versus LA and BOS and TT doesn’t do this.
Scottie…I don’t know what the Nucks would get in this deal…I am simply telling you that while yes, Kesler is limiting their options, VAN still has an Eastern Conference outlet that is loaded with “talented” players. So it is EASY for VAN to do a deal with Pittsburgh…this is likely where Kesler is going. For CHI to get him over PIT we will have to overspend, especially with our rivals. VAN will want a promising young player for their fan base, TT would be this guy…do I think that TT, Oduya and the rights to Hayes is more than fair for Kesler? Yes…but VAN can do a better deal with PIT and have Kesler in the Eastern Conference. So the Hawks would have to add to what we just listed…and that might have to be Clendening (which would be very hard for me to take) and a draft pick (high). So do you want to pay this? Do the Bowmans?
What I know is that Kesler makes us the best playoff team in hockey, TT in the next few years doesn’t.
re: shaacul’s question – Teravainen is a 2C within 2 years. Based on what I’ve seen from Kesler since the Cannucks’ one playoff run (ONE), he’s an overpaid 3C by the end of his contract.
re: Brad’s assertion that Kesler’s “a leader and a force” – bullshit. He’s a prick and nobody can stand him. I say that having been around him away from the rink.
The Ryan Kesler we’ve seen the last 3 seasons is NOT a player to overpay for. He’s damaged good and you’re getting a boner for a guy’s reputation that was written 3-5 years ago. Unloading the farm for Ryan Kesler is the kind of move the Philadelphia Flyers makes – not one made by organizations that are trying to sustain excellence. If it takes Teravainen, Johns or Clendening out of Rockford, I’m not answering the phone call. If they want Sharp or Saad off the NHL roster, I pass. If Pittsburgh offers James Neal, the Canucks should take it and run all the way to the bank… and the Hawks should congratulate them on making a good trade.
Also, I laugh out loud whenever I state a simple fact – like Kesler’s decreased production – and Brad over reacts. Priceless… every time.
But I’m sure Hawk Harrelson’s reading this discussion of intangibles and is totally on board w/ Brad’s evaluation.
If I am Kesler… I don’t know why Pitt is a consideration… they have too much cap tied to few players… they (like the Canucks- are down trending)…
Deal only makes sense from Hawks point- if they are looking for 8 or 27/ forward prospect/D prospect- (Not TT)… if Sharp is involved it is more of a sideways move (albeit- I agree w person who said- Hawks have better prospect chance of filling Sharp(Morin)- than a Kesler in system)…
Canucks have 4-5 good forward/prospects- that will be very good soon -imo…
so Dealing for Hawks D prospects, say 8, Cdening, Versteeg, another fwd. prospect…
would be a good trade for both-imo… Kesler-knows when they get good (2-4 yrs.- he will be past his prime)
Wall, I agree that is why I would be more than fine either way. Kesler is intriguing if you want to win right now…he puts over the top versus LA and BOS, TT doesn’t.
Scottie and others, if you want VAN to deal with us on anyone, then be prepared to overpay…same conference and a huge rivalry. I am from Vancouver…the Canuck’s fan base HATES the Hawks…so for you to speculate bit player/bit player/prospect, good luck…VAN has a willing partner in the Eastern Conference with PIT. It will take a lot for the Hawks to get Kesler IN THE REAL WORLD, not Madden 2014.
Tab, like Sharp’s 2013 regular season, Kesler’s was a bit of a right off…but this past year, he was the heart and soul of the Nuckleheads. I have watched a LOT more of Kesler than you…you can take my word for it, Kesler is still an elite 2 way hockey player. This past season, if Kesler had solid, regular line mates and didn’t have to shut down the opposing #1 line every game, he would of had over 80 points. His numbers this past season were outstanding IF YOU WATCHED HIM PLAY or understood the Canucks situation with Tortorella and Gillis.
Plus a 60 point season in CHI as our 2nd line Centre, playing the way that Kesler plays, is FAR more important than Sharp’s 78 points. You are trying to compare Apples to Oranges.
Tab- I think the neal deal has to do with their need for cap space and an insane amount of FAs. Though bringing in kesler doesn’t help that so much. I hope you are right as to his perceived value, tab. If we can get him for what you think he is worth I am so in. I think a johns would be worth including just bc we have depth at blueline, but I’m a no go for saad, tt, sharp, or claddening
Sr. Brad, I think you are right at them end of the day about what van wants from us. If its as much as you say, bowman won’t do it. I’m interested in what u would offer?
Win-win deal from my point of view could be something like Kesler – Leddy, Krueger + 2nd 2015. Vancover get puck moving defensman and great and proof third line center, 2nd 2015 is better than late first 2014.
Again, you are a child Tab. I too have spent time with Kesler and several of the Canucks. I would LOVE for you to say that to the face of anyone of them. Its so easy to spew opinions from behind a keyboard. Kesler is loved in VAN by fans and player’s alike because he plays an uncompromising game and defends his team mates. END OF STORY. To try and paint Kesler as some kind of cancer is just more modern, blog, juvenile journalism. YOU KNOW NOTHING of Ryan Kesler as either a person or a hockey player, and your hockey knowledge is limited to numbers, which you are good at.
Championships are not won by numbers. Justin Williams just hit the world over the head with that revelation. They are won by players who are committed to winning in every aspect of their game, and that’s the Ryan Kesler that I know. He’s not a perfect player, or a perfect guy, but he’s a man, he’s plays hard and he plays to win, at all costs.
And again, I am NOT even in favour of doing this deal at the price the Canuckleheads want. Remember, I am the one here for the past 2 weeks that has been pushing the status quo, addition by subtraction platform? I love Clendening, TT, Sharp and wouldn’t want to see ANY of them go…and for those pushing Bickell to be traded, like Tab, you just don’t get it…we don’t win in 2013 versus BOS without him…and again this post season Bickell was a beast. We need more Bickell’s not less. Regular season numbers are for Centerfolds and Penthouse. Championships are for winners…Bickell is a winner…you don’t trade him…and his $4 million/year deal is a BARGAIN versus what everyone else was going to pay him. Good grief Charlie Brown.
Brad – I love the chatter, especially including video game references. Kudos.
But I’m still waiting for you to tell me what – at any level – Ryan Kesler has ever won. You said he’s a champion…
I can also tell you from personal interaction that there are prominent, real LEADER, players in the Hawks’ room who are NOT Ryan Kesler fans. Chirp about his shifts w/ 88 in Sochi all you want – there are other guys who despise him as much as they do Thornton. I can also tell you from fact and not speculation (I watch him a lot) that he has NOT been healthy in 3 years.
I’ve already said this but it – like my questions that are still waiting answers – was apparently not read. So here it is again.
You can blame a shitty team and Torts for the 2013-14 production of Kesler. That’s fine. His numbers started falling off 3 years ago. And haven’t recovered.
It’s funny Tab and Brad, the more they argue the further apart they are becoming. If I had to choose a side, I’m leaning towards Tab’s.
Question for all of you. If Kesler is a 3c in 2 years, how would you feel about including Shaw in a package for Kesler. Sure you lose your 3c, but you can insert any of Smith(if resigned), Kruger, or Danault for 2014.
Honestly Scottie, I would stand pat and not go for Kesler. The price is too high both on his salary and the loss of assets. But I understand the passion to go get him…he is EXACTLY the kind of player we need to put us over the top with LA and BOS. Sticking with our team and prospects, I still think we get it done…maybe not this coming season, but if TT pans out then in 2 years, and for many years to come.
As much as everyone here talks about TT and loves him, I like Clendening more. He’s the real talent IMO. The Hawks took Clendening AHEAD of Saad in the 2nd round, knowing full well how much a steal Saad would have been early in the 2nd round. Clendending is a PP QB, something that Keith is NOT and Leddy doesn’t have the personal confidence to become. Clendening is someone (paired with a Seabrook or Hammer) that can become a real difference maker for us. So I would let the Kesler talk boil over and then focus on resigning Smith, Morin and Raanta, and look forward to the draft. I think Oduya will be traded there, which is necessary, as Dahlbeck and Clenedning are both ready to join the Hawks.
Great question, Ernie. And an intriguing one… that I’m not sure I can answer. It would largely depend on the prospects that went w/ Shaw, and what else the Hawks did make financial accommodations to fit Kesler. Shaw isn’t expensive enough by himself to fit Kesler’s $5M over the next couple years.
“I would stand pat and not go for Kesler. The price is too high both on his salary and the loss of assets. But I understand the passion to go get him…he is EXACTLY the kind of player we need to put us over the top with LA and BOS. Sticking with our team and prospects, I still think we get it done…maybe not this coming season, but if TT pans out then in 2 years, and for many years to come.”
I COULDN’T AGREE ANY MORE WITH THIS. THANK YOU, BRAD.
Tab, I agree…his age is mounting, his injuries are increasing (both just like Sharp) and his production has declined. Personally I wouldn’t make the deal for Kesler at this time, but I understand what all the fuss is about.
He is HATED by Hawk players because he is HARD to play against…and unlike Toews, Kesler will play dirty to win…and as an athlete, I was like that too. I would do what it took to win, because that’s why we play these games.
Kesler has not won a championship at any major level, but his play in the 2011 playoffs showed CLEARLY that he is a leader and a champion…his team simply didn’t follow where he tried to take them. I have a “soft” spot for players like Kesler, because they are willing to do anything to win and they are UNCOMPROMISING. Plus, Q would love having Kesler on the team…they are both cut from the same cloth.
But again, I wouldn’t make ANY deal with VAN and would try and make all deals in the Eastern Conference as I think the Hawks prospects are a lot better than people give them credit for. And I wouldn’t want to deal Clendening or Saad at any price.
IMO, TT is NOT a sure thing as an elite NHL player. Like Wall said, TTs instincts are so good and quick that I do believe he will become an NHL player, but its his character and toughness that will determine if he’s a top 6 player or a talented bottom 6 player…this is why I would move TT for the right player…like a Ryan O’Reilly….I would give up a lot for ROR.
“…cost us a ton to have Vancouver move Kesler within the same conference to their biggest rival. It will have to involve 2 current Hawk players, TT” <<< I sincerely hope Kesler enjoys his time in Pittsburgh.
“On top of that it will cost another top prospect NOT on the Hawks roster, and high draft picks.” <<< Seek Help!! Insanity.
My previous comments ARE NOT a shot at Sr. Brad.
They are a shot at anyone who thinks that is “fair value” for Kesler.
“…if the price is right I think we can get it done.” — I like Tab’s suggestion: Bickell & Oduya straight up…throw-in Versteeg and I’ll give them a ride to the airport.
I’m pro-Kesler. Yes, he isn’t the 2011 version of Kesler, but I believe he is still good enough to make the Hawks much better – depending on the players traded to Vancouver. Again – I think improving the team defense is the number one priority and I think Kesler does that more so than other potential 2C options like Spezza. But it all depends on what the Hawks have to give up to get Kesler and what cap space remains to pick up another player to improve the defense – like a better 6th d-man than Rozsival.
Kessler is past him prime, physically deteriorated, and on the decline. Not saying he still isn’t a good player, but with the style of play he has, his years as an above average player are nearly over. Sharp will continue to be effective for longer because his style of play. Kessler for Sharp no way. Kesslers attitude sucks…
While Kesler has had his fair share of injuries and has already begun to slow down production wise, he is still the epitome of a great second line center. He plays in all three zones, PP, PK, wins face offs. He could play on the first line if Toews went down (something Shaw, Smith, TT cant do just yet). Vancouver will want the world from the Hawks if they do business.
That being said…
I still wouldn’t acquire him if I’m Bowman based on his cap hit alone. We could recover if we traded prospects or non core guys (8, 27, etc for cap relief). However his cap hit would require the Hawks to let go of Sharp or Seabrook BEFORE signing just one of Kane, Toews, or Saad. If I’m Bowman, I would tell Kane if Kesler is his only choice for center, take 2 million or so off of your cap hit. This way, as the cap rises, Kesler virtually becomes only 3 million dollar center in the future (as Tab indicated). If Kane is unwilling to do this, tell him you can’t have your cake and eat it too: either you pick a higher salary or you build a strong 20-17-88 “All-American” line.
No way I’d trade Sharp for Kesler, either directly or indirectly. Keep the chemistry intact and hopefully Sharp will hit his hot streak before it’s too late in the playoffs.
Vancouver is an excellent example of how quickly a team can fall out of the “elite” category in today’s NHL. Thankfully Stan Bowman has more hockey sense than most of us posters on this site, and he looks at the long term big picture. Since replacing Dale, his trade transactions have all been conservative in nature, involving at best 3rd/4th line or 5/6/7 D players only. Stan Bowman is not about to acquire a 30+ year old player at a cost of any highly touted prospects. The reality with today’s salary cap is that you need those young players to step into important roles and augment the core lineup with their lower salaries. If you’re looking at acquiring a 30 year old, you do it through free agency or by trading a similarly aged player; not at a potential cost to your future. One of Stan’s goals is to ensure the Blackhawks stay competitive for the foreseeable future, and he has no reason to risk the future for a specific run at next year’s Stanley Cup— we’re already in that mix, along with at least 8 other teams. While we as fans have an insatiable desire to win the Cup year after year (and to think that pre-2010 we would have simply settled for one Cup in our lifetime!), the Blackhawk management team has a “lower” standard out of necessity—to ice a competitive team that gives the best chance to win the Cup within the constraints of the cap—but above all else to ensure that we fans will still be there as fans in 5 years and beyond…as maintaining our passion for the game is the Blackhawks bu$ine$$ “one goal”.
I trade Teuvo, Leddy and a couple draft picks in a nanosecond to get Kesler. I overpay if it comes to that. Adding Kesler to this team would be very impactful. And it would enable Shaw to stay on the 3rd line where he belongs and where, paired with Kruger and Bickell, could do some major contributing.
That said, I can’t see Vancouver dealing with Chicago unless Stan absolutely blows them away with a package. Which honestly is not in Stan’s DNA to do.
RTF, “I trade Teuvo, Leddy and a couple draft picks in a nanosecond to get Kesler. I overpay if it comes to that.” – I’m SO glad that you’re not the Hawks’ GM…and I’m fairly certain I’m not alone on this.
There are numerous other ways to “enable Shaw to stay on the 3rd line where he belongs”. If a **REASONABLE** deal were to be made, who knows, Kesler might even be centering that third line?
Kesler is an exceptional two way player. One of the best players in hockey. A difference maker. End of subject.
I would hope that the hawks are looking at Colorado and Ryan o’Reilly. To me this makes more sense than kesler. I just don’t know how big of a cap impact he would be. But at 23 yrs old and 200 lbs this seems like a much more logical target.
Shamrock, ROR is a great two way player but there’s no way the Hawks get him. He’s asking for 7+ million a year and has been a diva the past couple years in his contract discussions.
RTF, calling Kesler one of the best players in the NHL is a bit hyperbolic. Since 2011 he has been in the second or third tier of NHL stars. You can call it unfortunate injuries or the Torts effect but we shouldn’t overpay for him. Also, you really want Sharpie out of town so I can see why you want this deal to go down so bad.
RTF, you are correct in saying Bowman won’t overpay for him so it will most likely not happen. This is all crazy fan fiction to create the best team on paper, like Iginla, Morrow, and Jokinen on Pittsburgh last year.
Here’s an except from the Denver Post today on the ROR situation (I hope this okay Tab)
ROR Agent, Pat Morris goes on:
“Ryan is unrestricted in two years, and under the model now, given that Colorado has arbed him, short-term looks like what the future is for Ryan going forward, possibly year to year or for the next two years….some people might look a little sideways that a team has done that to a special player, but they certainly have the business right to do that and Ryan is mature, but there’s a history a little bit on the previous contract and Ryan is a stubborn young man.”
So, basically, start your trade rumors everyone. After a night of thinking it over and chatting with a few others, I’m mostly of the belief now that the Avs will try to trade O’Reilly, quite possibly very soon. Why so soon? Well, under a new wrinkle in the CBA, other teams can actually call and talk to free agents on June 25 – restricted and unrestricted players. They can’t negotiate on actual numbers (wink-wink), but they can call and shoot the breeze all they want and try to see if it would be a “fit” for the two to do business together once July 1st rolls around.
And O’Reilly can actually accept offer sheets from July 1-5. Under terms of the CBA, unless a team offers more than an average of $6,728,781, the best the Avs could get as compensatory draft picks are a first, second and third from that team. And what if that team is, say, Chicago? A late first-round pick for O’Reilly, a second and a third? Big deal. Of course, the Avs can just simply match the offer and keep him, which is what they would do. But remember too: the Avs wouldn’t be able to trade him for a full calendar year if they match any offer, just like last time. They’d run the risk of his trade value plummeting either through serious injury (always possible) or some drastic dropoff in play (unlikely, but still).
Here’s the thing about ROR and its the same for Kesler…we are EVERYONE’s biggest rival in the Western Conf. Why would Colorado deal ROR to CHI when ANY team in the Eastern Conference would love to have him. It would take a crazy good deal from Stan Bowman to get ROR, and then all of those pieces would be playing against us as well. So as much as I love the idea of ROR long term in CHI, its not going to happen.
‘ treated like shit by prima donna Canadians, get my nuts shaved’. (Youngblood)
Does PIT even have any 1st picks left after these past 2 deadlines.
O’Reilley has Colorado over a barrel and in my opinion they figure out a way to get a new deal done. Meaning they probably are forced to say bye to Statsny. It is lousy roster management like this that makes me enormously grateful for Bowman because he would have never let things get this far with those two. Plus they remain a team with crisis on defense.
I want Kesler very badly. Not going to happen though.
Brad- I like/agree with your comment about Character/toughness/ I will add IQ/will…
But I am still in disagreement about Cdening… I see his O side as being high… but he is not close in skating/D to 2,27,8,4… I think He is average in those abilities… hope I am wrong… I guess he could work with Hammer to cover his weaknesses and move Hammer to his strong side…
Re: ROR- will SB or some other GM – Pull a Doug Wilson and corner the Avs by making ROR an offer – to Force the Avs to pay more???
Not that the Hawks need any help filling the UC but adding Kesler instantly puts the spotlight directly on this team, with expectations being extremely high which means added pressure as well. The Hawks would become the instant darlings of the league and anything less than winning the cup would be deemed a failure.
I agree with most of you here, we would LOVE to have Kesler on this team, but the price would be way to high & I’m pretty confident he will not be dealt here. Unless something crazy happens like Tallon being named Van’s GM, then we get him for bag of pucks!!
The Rangers are buying out Brad Richards, what’s the opinion on him…..?
I would hate to see Kesler in a Hawks uniform. His piss-poor attitude would harm team camaraderie more than help.
Aside from him playing for Shaw-level money, he can sit and spin with the other divas in Pitt. Getting him would be like some ridiculous Jim Hendry-esque move.
I’ll take Andrew Ladd back instead.
Hawks need a Center. A Center. A good friggin Center. Not some reject. Kesler is a marvelous player. I could give a rat’s ass if his alleged antics and supposed antics rub a few of you Nancies the wrong way. Add Kesler to Toews, Kane, Hossa, Saad, Shaw, Kruger at forward?!? Good God would that be potent and deep. Kesler is Bolland’s equal as a defensive two way forward and a major offensive generator. I would give my left nut for him on the Hawks. And so too would Kane and the boys.
At the end of the day I would love Kesler on the team (as I have stated many times), but do not think it will happen because the price will be too high. I do not think Stan Bowman is the type of GM to make these kind of reactionary deals or trade deadline deals. As much as I want it to happen I know that waiting it out and developing from within is the smarter way to do it, and selling the future for trades and trade deadline deals is not the way to be successful in general. But man I would love him here.
FWIW- the two teams last season that did the biggest deadline deals (Gaborik and St Louis) ended up playing for the cup……
“the two teams last season that did the biggest deadline deals (Gaborik and St Louis) ended up playing for the cup……” — doesn’t Ryan Miller and Steve Ott guaranteeing the Blues a Cup count?
The Hawks need a center.
That center does not have to be Ryan Kesler.
The Hawks ABSOLUTELY do not have to OVERpay for whomever that center may be.
(Nancie)
Ya, miller didnt work out. They do not all work out, and usually do not as I stated, but they do sometimes. It can be a spark in that locker room, get an excitement, and clearly can work out. Both St Louis and Gaborik performed at high levels, which if Kesler came here I imagine he would as well.
Away today and missed the fun-
for my 2 cents worth-I would love to have Kesler but what Sr. Brad thought on what it would take to get him is way off-roster players, prospects and picks??????
He’s injury prone and has two teams to bargain with. Regardless he would solve the 2C spot next year and Kaner would be happy. I want to see what TT will be in two years and could possibly see (as Tab said) Kesler in the 3C spot the following year. So to me other than TT (and 20) take your pick of the other non-core players/prospects in the waiting and giddy-yup.——-we need a 2C
Kesler might say he is only open to Chicago and Pittsburgh, but these things always have a way of changing. If he wants out of Vancouver then he will bend on this. And…Vancouver is only going to trade him if they get a crap-ton in return.
I’ve stated a few times my only problem with Kesler is the alleged asking price (AND, any willingness to OVERpay — the Hawks are not in desperation mode). I read that Jim Benning is/will be under tremendous pressure to get a lot in return – “really can’t settle for anything less than great.” Almost all of the rumors and suggested possible deals rate “ridiculous”, in my opinion. Maybe if I were a hardcore Canucks fan I’d dee it differently. I completely agree with those who believe his numbers since 2011 seem to indicate a decline, and at 30 and playing the physical style, it could be true. I know nothing about his attitude, personality, etc. (- we never met)
All of this perennial banter re Kessler or whoever as 2nd line center is sophomoric and waste of individuals who all make valid points @ intermittent junctures w/in this forum. The hawks won both their cups b/c they had 12 solid forwards both of those yrs (“roll 4 lines” per hierarchy). There was no true 2 nd line center — didn’t matter whatsoever. It wouldn’t have mattered this yr either if the proper bottom 3 forwards were dressed and played, similarly to ’10 and ’13. SB and Q just need to issue joint statement “look, it’s our fault, we had the players here, but SB signed bollig and traded for versteeg and re-signed Zeus, and I supported those decisions; these decisions didn’t provide us w/ the best chance to win. We won’t let it happen again”. So it’s all quite simple — Kessler or whoever else doesn’t matter. The hawks have enough forward depth to win the cup again next yr w/out a true 2nd line center. They proved it 2x/4yrs. Can we now address other matters unrelated to Kessler/2nd line C please? Thank you very much. Good evening.
lol dickie, im with ya
ohhhh lets all be quiet now iceman has spoken….. lol…. be quiet fool, the purpose of these forums is for the exact banter you are asking us to end. If you arent interested in Kesler related banter, why did you click the article and read the banter? Use your college words all you want pal, at the end of the day your post is just a hypocritical, unimaginative piece of trash.
‘How long does this go on, Frank?’ (Duke Forrest)
‘It gets longer all the time. Now I have your soul to pray for, and Captain Pierce’s.’ (Frank Burns)
WOW interesting and I was thinking the Hawks should be a player for Brad Richards at a discounted rated no w the NYR bought him out. As for Kesler I like him despite injuries and minor attitude issues but for TT the answer is NO, for Clandening the answer is NO, for Danault or others the answer is YES! If the Hawks could shed some bad contracts (Versteeg, Bickell) and toss in a few prospects I all for it. Kesler has 1 maybe 2 seasons good seasons left. TT is the long term answer but the Hawks need a center for another cup run next season.
Back to Richards I like him at a cheap price tag for a year of two now that NYR has paid him to go away.
sshm,
that’s how I feel in terms of what I would trade for him.
Grabo/Richards should be similar to the 3m/yr cap hit Grabo just had. Why would they not be willing to sign for one at a time to be on one of the top teams, that would make that top team even better.
one yr at a time…
Make no mistake if STL, ANA or another Western Contender end up with Kesler that’s not a good thing for the Hawks. Especially if its ANA they aren’t to far from the top of the pack now, duo superstars(check) deep roster(check) an emerging top tier goalie ( Gibson check) and a highly ranked minor league (check). Add Kesler and that’s a problem for the other Western Conf contenders.
What about them not having Ryan anymore. Still with the good young player from OTT & 2nd ranked farm to add to that though.
Good thing we have the 4th ranked farm.
All other top teams farms are bottom 10 (20-30) except BOS & PIT (17 & 15)
@ morrison
I’m a huge Bobby Ryan fan but unfortunately for ANA they just couldn’t afford to pay everyone, Getzlaf and Perry were the right choices to extend in that situation. Well built teams have those issues as do the Hawks, Pens, Bruins and recently the Nucks.
Bobby Ryan might not be an elite 200 ft player but he is a front line starter and scorer on every single NHL team. Bobby Ryan is the top 3 forward on every single NHL roster (sorry James Neal). Silverberg who ANA got back was/is an excellent prospect so ANA did well. As for Gibson sky’s the limit for his game.
Thanks Scottie P-but may I add condescending to the IceMan response. We have enough of that already.
Well how about we get Toews and Kane signed first. That could be more problematic that we think. What do you think Toews would fetch in Winnipeg…10 million? what do you think Kane would get in Buffalo…12 million? You think their agents won’t bring this up? You think they would be willing to forego 5 million after tax $’s just out of loyalty. Throw in family and friends and lucrative locks on endosement deals in their hometowns plus a chance to turnaround a franchise. As for Kesler, he asked to be traded to the Blackhawks and methinks Kesler gets whats Kesler wants, although…he will 99% end up in Pittsburg, division rivals and all with the Canucks. Pittsburg is in a rebuild and willing to make big changes no holes barred, however, no coach yet so its an unknown situation for Kesler to walk into, so that could be in our favour. Giving up Sharp would be criminal and I hope that does not occur. My feeling is that Kane wants to take a run at the scoring title and be “up there” as a real contender for it for years to come and is seriously demanding a top flight centre and linemate. This is very understandable as that window presents itself rarely and is a real possibility for him. I still like Grabovski, maybe a goalie as well as I do not think Raanta is ready to be the #1 should Crawford be lost. No way Seabrook goes anywhere.
Mining Man, “…lucrative locks on endorsement deals in their hometowns plus a chance to turnaround a franchise” — market size, Chicago vs. Buffalo & Winnipeg impacts “lucrative”. Legitimate shot at another Cup or two vs. “turn a franchise around” — really, which do you believe is the better “career move”? I would never suggest anything like “Money isn’t everything” because ”Everyone needs money. That’s why they call it money!” (Mickey Bergman, Heist) However, there is more to it than just salary, and there is a point *for some people* at which they realize that they are being what they’re worth or “enough”. Obviously, any agent will not promote that sort of reasoning, but the agent works for Toews and Kane. Stan Bowman expressed confidence he will get them both signed.
Your sophomoric cheap shots @ licensed members of the bar are without merit and absent any facts whatsoever. Make fun of me all you want. Bowman went to college and studied a bunch of numbers, where is the criticism of him? I put up the site last night, and a cursory exam showed a gazillion comments re Kessler like he’s Stan Mikita jr. It doesn’t mean I read ubiquitous comennts from everyone. I am equally capable of being GM as bowman, but my dad was an artist, not Scotty. I still wish I was bollig’s agent. Keep up the entertaining blogs! Ha ha ha
Dickie Dunn…Toews as a hometown hero in Winnipeg would easily be an equal to Chicago, not everyone in Blackhawk land is a hockey fan but in Winnipeg its a religon , like Montreal…dont worry I agree with you on Winnipeg…Buffalo different story…the fan base is Southern Ontario….London, Hamilton, St, Catherine’s, Burlington, Oakville the entire Golden Horseshoe, a population of 8+ million in a <70 mile radius. Also very well versed, savvy and crazy hockey religion fans. The market for Mr. Kane is actually much larger there plus again he would be a hometown hero. With these teams looking to make the floor cap they have money to burn, cap wise. Buffalo could really offer Kane the moon and stick it to the Leafs in the process. I'm just saying…I would go bananas if we lost one of them and hopefully Stan gets it all done. If we give Kane a really good centre then that would go a long way. Not sure how it all unfolds, none of us really know. Still having trouble understanding how the heck we beat Minny and how we lost to LA.
i’d like to see what TT brings before considering Kesler or anybody else with a price tag over $5M.
Mining Man, “not everyone in Blackhawk land is a hockey fan but in Winnipeg its a religion , like Montreal…” — “…it’s safe to say at least a few million people turned out for the 2013 Stanley Cup parade honoring the ‘Hawks.”, TV ratings and ancillary revenues = I must disagree.
More significant – I can’t believe the “challenge” of turning a franchise around could mean more than a legitmate shot at another Cup or two, or even to be playing on a team that is competitive compared to enduring the rebuilding process.
I guess I would like to believe the ” there is a point *for some people* at which they realize that they are being paid what they’re worth or “enough” thing, but I don’t really know.
In my opinion, Stan Bowman has been very good in his role (- Versteeg was a mistake, but it cost only two players who probably had no chance of ever playing in Chicago), so I tend to believe him when he feels confident both will be resigned.
Minnesota and LA – just my opinion, but much of the time both outplayed the Hawks. I think Crawford won a few games, sheer “will” (++ effort?) by Kane, Toews, and Saad won a few…”lucky bounces” and calls/missed calls probably nearly even-out during a series. I believe the Kings wanted it more and played better – they were like the Hawks last year – it looked (to me, anyway) like they would not be denied.
Looking forward to the draft (incl. any trades?) and next season — GO HAWKS!!
Mario Lemieux was drafted by Pittsburg in order to save the franchise. This was done to the point were Lou Angotti admits they deliberately lost games in order to get the first pick. Eddie Johnson can never admit to this, but it is what it is. Translate that to 2015 and Kane in Buffalo and perhaps Toews in Winnipeg. Can it happen,,,yes…will it happen , very high probability of NO. Just putting it out there. One of the smaller market teams will win the Stanly Cup in the next five years….Tampa Bay or someone…not going to be NYC, LA, Chicago , Boston all the time. Cap issues are designed to rid that. Of course Stan is going to say he’s confident they can be signed, what else can he say at this point. Just playing Devils Advocate, seems everyone is looking at other issues when the priority is before us, then we concern ourselves with all the tidbits. I’m thinking Kane wants a legitimate 2C to play with and go for the scoring title. If this does not happen he could, could mind you, go elsewhere. That would be an unmitigated disaster, on par with Esposito, Hodge, Stanfield, for Pit Martin, Gilles Meloche and a goalie that never made the NHL.
My 2 cents here. I like Kesler. I think he is a “nice” player. But as mentioned, he is getting older. His contract isn’t horrible for a top 6 guy, but it would be crazy to think he instantly makes Kane a Ross/Rocket winner. And who know what we get out of Kesler in 2015. I think pairing Toews and Kane makes Kane an instant favorite for those trophies, but we know Q doesn’t want to do that.
The only way I would make this deal would be if it didn’t cost me TT, Saad, or Leddy AND the Nucks kept some of the cap hit (And lets face it, Sharp isnt waiving his NMC to go to VAN). Vancouver is in full blown rebuild mode. I would not be surpirsed to see Shinkaruk or Horvat (or both, assuming Kesler gets moved) playing next year. Would they be interested in a large prospect package?
Rights to K. Hayes, McNeil, Morin, Oduya (Oduya for cap reason) for Kesler (-2M of cap). I would do that. K.Hayes is a wild card, but with 19, Kesler, Shaw, Kruger for 2 years and then 19, TT, Kruger, Danault after that, We can live without Hayes. McNeil could be a mini- Andrew Ladd type, but he’s not there right now, and if Kesler gets us a cup next year, i guess McNeil isnt the worst loss. Oduya needs to go for Cap reasons anyway, and Morin is better off in Vancouver than in the Q doghouse. I’d like him in the line up, but Im starting to think it will never happen under Q.
While i think the above makes sense for both sides, I think Vancouver will want more than that, so it wouldn’t happen. Maybe in a video game that trade works… but not in reality….
Tim G- I usually like your thoughts… But- McNeill could be a Ladd??? NOT!!!!
Ladd- is and was a winner/smart player… McNeill- has usually put up some bad +/-, and is way behind where Ladd was at age… So to me this is IQ issue- besides skill issue.
Re: Morin— That one still has me puzzled… years ago- Morin and Smith were the two guys that were almost brought in to play for the Hawks- (they were at practices I attended) they both suffered some injuries (but were on the cusp of making Hawks- and the way I remember it- Morin was actually ahead of Smith)… Morin – had some big concussions… Smith then had the Hand.. followed by the Concussion…. then Smith moved ahead… BUT- I really remember (based on being at practices- that Morin was “the Guy”)…
So- Is he still in the Plan- or has he Really fallen off of Q’s list??? I guess we will see really soon!!!
Since someone brought up Andrew Ladd….
On February 26, 2008, the Carolina Hurricanes – less than two full seasons removed from winning the Cup – traded Ladd to the Blackhawks for Tuomo Ruutu. Ruutu, at the time, was a 25-year-old center coming off a 17-goal season. He scored a career-high 26 goals in 2008-09, his first full season in Carolina, but has been underwhelming with only two 50+ point seasons since that trade. Ladd was 22 when that deal was consummated, and obviously did some good things in the role he played in Chicago over the following two seasons (32 goals, 55 assists in 164 regular season games over two full regular seasons). Since the cap casualty deal to Atlanta, Ladd has scored at least 23 goals in all three 82-game regular seasons, and had perhaps his best season in the lockout-shortened 2013 campaign when he posted 46 points in 48 games.
The Canes trading away Ladd for Ruutu is my moment of pause when considering a deal that sends Brandon Saad somewhere for a stopgap 2C.
Wall- I will concede that Ladd would be an “agressive” prediction for McNeill. But I’m trying to sell his “high-end” since i got my GM hat on right now… lol
Ladd and McNeill do have a few similarities. 6’2″/6’3″. Both around 210lbs. Both from British Columbia (so Vancouver would almost be little homecoming for him). Both had a 30+G, 40+A season in Juniors.
I mean McNeill was a 1+ppg guy with P.A. in the WHL. I could see McNeill being a 2nd line guy for a weaker team. Ladd is obviously WPG’s Captain, and McNeill would have a long way to go to be that type of player, but he could be 20G, 25-30A type guy with the right team/linemates. His best season in Juniors was a 32G, 49A.
My “realistic” comparision for McNeill would be Troy Brouwer… a 2nd liner on a non-playoff team (also from BC, Canada fwiw) . 15-18G, 15-18A.
That being said, Another guy with a frame like that… Kyle Beach (Also from BC… lol). I think McNeil can be better than Beach though.
BREAKING: Philadelphia has traded F Scott Hartnell to Columbus for F RJ Umberger & a 4th round pick in 2015.
And so it begins…
You’ve got 4-5 great Toews/Kane/Keith years left. 1 or 2 Hossa/Sharp. These are the Stanley Cup years. I make any trade that gets a Kesler/O’Reilly piece to add to the puzzle if you can somehow fit under the cap.
Clendening, Teuvo, McNeill, Danault, Johns ……. None, None, None of these players are the missing piece to improve and compete for the cup. Pull the trigger.
Hartnell and Umberger are very similar players, IMO Hartnell has a better resume. Columbus is doing a good job of putting together a nice roster. I bet they are happy finding a new home in the East.
@ Tim G, Kyle Beach really didn’t set the bar too high. I think you and both have as many NHL points are Kyle Beach. What an absolute bust he was/is! I believe he is the only 1st rounder that year never to make it to the NHL. On a side note I saw Brad Manchinster will not be resigned meaning Beach was drafted and then traded for nothing. Zero value to the organization from Dale’s last Hawks pick!
And if somehow you can get them to take Bollig in the trade, so much the better
Tab I like your committed Indians fb page but I can’t comment on your statuses whatsoever. I don’t know why either. It’s like I’m blocked from saying comments and I have never said anything horrible on it so I don’t know what’s going on. Anyways since I can’t comment on fb I was wondering what your thoughts were with Richards? I know he is 34 years old but Rangers bought out his contract so as him being a centre what is your opinion of the Hawks seeking him? Yes or no? Just wondering.
Decent Trade. CBus gets the better player, but takes on a “slightly” higher cap hit (100k difference) and a longer contract (5 years for Hartnell, 3 for RJ). Both guys are 32, and probably playing their last “good hockey”.
So basically its a slightly better player and a 4th rounder from Philly for slightly lesser player and cap help 3 years from now…
Philly must realize they are behind BOS, NY, PIT, MTL and TB, so may as well get rid of “non-necessary” guys and set for the future.
CBus gets a good Vet, who should be a good fit and with their cap room they can keep hartnell no problem until the end of his contract or he retires…
B Grade move for CLB
C grade move for Philly
Sharp/Bickell – Toews – Hossa
Saad – ? – Kane
Ummmm where exactly is someone significant enough to qualify the statement mortgage future finna play anyway? And how many more runts do they need up the middle?
Seriously, what awesome prospect is so freaking good that that they are going to supplant any of those 5? Silly. They have more than enough guys that project to shut down types or 4th line grinders. A proven NHL center that has scored consistently is tremendously more advantageous than some lil guy who has played a few games, shown some skill but definitely needs time to acclimate.
Vancouver has no leverage. Kesler has demanded a trade and limited the teams to Chi and Pitt….and he has a no trade clause so he can nix any deal he doesn’t like.
They will not be getting TT or Saad. That much is clear. It was reported by multiple sources that the Hawks walked away from trade negotiations about 10 days ago when the Nuks wanted Saad or TT. Now it’s being reported that Vancouver has come back to Chicago, which means that they are now resolved that any trade will NOT include the Hawks’ very best young players.
You are wrong Brad, Clendening is not ready for the NHL yet, and the Hawks organization feels the same way. Next up is Dahlbeck, most likely to start the season, then Johns should be up about mid-way through, and then Clendening (most likely at towards the end of the season-black aces or even the following year) Clendening still has to work on the defensive part of his game.
If VAN wants to deal with the Hawks the package will consist of: Some combination package of Oduya ($3.375 Mil), Rosival ($2.2 Mil), Bollig ($1.25 Mil), Jeremy Morin (RFA/Sign & Trade), Rundblad ($785k) and secondary prospects: 1st round pick (#27), Danault, McNeill, Leblanc, Fournier, Ross
A very solid package can be made out of that. This is not selling to the highest bidder, it’s take it or leave it and lose ALL leverage by dealing only with Pitt who already has 3 C’s in Crosby, Malkin, and Sutter.
hawkfacts, “I make any trade that gets a Kesler/O’Reilly … Pull the trigger.” – Shortsighted. Remember the Ryan Miller and Steve Ott deal that guaranteed St.Louis the Cup?
O”Reilly and Kesler are completely different scenarios (both unlikely). O’Reilly would be more than a stopgap and Colorado would probably prefer to keep him, and Kesler seems to be on the decline and might have only one or two good years left….and, most important to consider is that he is not worth the *alleged* asking price.
HawksNation4All, “If VAN wants to deal with the Hawks the package will consist of: Some combination package of Oduya ($3.375 Mil), Rosival ($2.2 Mil), Bollig ($1.25 Mil), Jeremy Morin (RFA/Sign & Trade), Rundblad ($785k) and secondary prospects: 1st round pick (#27), Danault, McNeill, Leblanc, Fournier, Ross” – MUCH more plausible than the “rumors”. I have no idea how Pittsburgh would play it…
Hawks4- A very fair trade would be something like 27, 52, Morin or Cdening +27…
actually- that would be a steal for the Nucks… especially Morin… I really think (and thought the Hawks “were” high on him at one point)… But Nucks would be getting a lot — and Hawks are buying 2+?? years w/ Kesler… But the Hawks can easily replace all of these guys (excluding 27- who is most likely gone after this year any way)… the next Hardest spot to replace – imo- Morin… (which really just makes ya scratch your head- because Morin is harder to replace in system then 52… (yet 52 started 80+ games!!!))
Also, heard that Kesler wised up and Pitt- is not an option… Ducks are the other team in the Hunt!!!
+ 27th pick
I absolutely know that Clendening is ready for the NHL, but it only matters what the Hawks think…if Adam really wants to start the season in CHI, then he needs to come to camp with one idea only, and that’s making the team…he has the ability to do so.
Morin and Smith are both close to resigning…and it really doesn’t matter what Q thinks…Bowman just needs to create a roster where Morin gets played and Morin’s play will take care of the rest. Again, addition by subtraction.
Trading Hartnell? I just don’t get the Flyers…you win championships with guys like Hartnell and Richards.
Brad I’ve read pieces by Kim Wrona and Chris Block that have both said that while he has a bomb from the point, Clendenning is still pretty deficient in his own zone. It has also been made pretty clear that he doesn’t nearly have the skating ability of say a Leddy or Keith. Brian Connolly put up a crap ton of points too and look where that has gotten him…
Dahlbeck seems to be the general consensus on defenders that can step up and Johns if he is ready between the ears because that monster surely has an NHL build.
AJ- Stop it!!!
Cdening can’t skate/defend… the only way he works is if he is “protected” by someone who can… I see him having “issues” with a good forecheck/coming at him…
I say – If there is a trade in the works… I’m OK w/ him being in the package…
He does have some nice “O” side skills… would be a nice guy on PP.
Kesler is the MAN give up what we need to give up
Kesler is an old school, tuff, defensive minded, hard working player, no others compare, and his DEMAND to WIN A CUP will wake up this Hawks team ie. Sleepy, lots of turnovers, inconsistent play during the playoffs when it counts. He is a great center and wins BIG DRAWS not the padded stats of some “other centers” when ya need a DRAW he get’s it clean, worth any trade! Only untouchables for hawks is Kane, Towes, Bickel, Keith, Seabrook and Crawford, everyone else is bait. We also need a big strong Defensemen, hard hitting, and clean out crease for poor Crawford.
Get Kesler and the CUP is back that simple, no other player can bring what he has!
lose Hossa and throw in Leddy!
Clendening does have work to do defensively… and the Hawks’ depth on the blue line certainly makes his name an intriguing one as trade rumors pick up over the next few days. However, I know the top of the organization (McD) has been VERY high on him since he started at BU and would be surprised if he was moved.
Clendening does have developing to do, but not most people cant step onto NHL and immediatly succeed. Every player needs to grow on the job so to speak.
Is he going to be Duncan Keith? No, but how many Duncan Keiths are running around the NHL? But could he be something equvilant to Matt Niskanen? I’d think so… and I’d be ok with that…
That said, Niskanen (and like players) are by no means an “untouchable” assets. I could part with that type of player in the right deal. I just think you dont need to add him to go get Kesler. That’s why I think Stan would address other names first. Trade guys who have skill but might not impact the hawks roster. Thats why i suggested guys like Hayes/Morin/McNeill. All have potential, but dont look like they will be impacting the Hawks roster over the next 2/3 years (if last year was any indication of how Morin will be used). Clendening could very well impact the roster this year, so its a little different to me.
Also, just a side note/factoid: Clendening is the Pick that we got for Andrew Ladd…
Morin/(pick) K.Hayes/(pick) J.Holl is what we go for Big Buff…
How those 4 turn out over the next year or so will decide the true fallout of the 2010 debacle. If K. Hayes walks, Morin gets shut out by Q, and we give away clendening unnessicarly then I would say it doesnt look good…
AJ, all I can give you is my viewpoint…but I have hockey in my blood and I’ve watched Clendening play 75% of his games over the last 2 AHL seasons…and I can tell you this…he can skate, he handle the effects of a strong forecheck, he can take a big hit…contrary to some, these are NOT his deficiencies as a DMan, its the fact that he tries a lot of dangerous passes and gets caught up ice a lot…Clendening is on of those guys who doesn’t like to leave the offensive zone, and will pinch even when its pretty reckless to do so. But these things can be cured by coaching, and playing with a solid NHL veteran…a partner that will hold him accountable.
Now, I don’t mean to disparage Wall at all…Wall is probably my favourite contributor on this site, as he has a GREAT understanding of the game and how it is played, but IMO he is wrong on Clendening…while AC doesn’t have lightening speed as a DMan (a la Bobby Orr), he’s not slow or even average, and has got a quick first few steps…he has unsurpassing VISION both in the DZone and the Ozone, he is a terrific passer, has a blistering shot from the point, he’s a strong as an ox and won’t wear down against a forecheck coming in waves (see the LA Kings), he’s a naturally gifted PP QB, plus he’s SMART and you can’t teach that.
I have said this a few times, but I will repeat it here again, the Hawks KNEW that Saad slipping into the 2nd round was a colossal steal, but they passed on him for Clendening with their early 2nd round pick…why? Because the Hawks know that Clendening has offensive instincts for a DMan that only come around once in a decade…they will not trade him unless Bowman felt he absolutely had to…but he would be the LAST prospect that this organization would give up. I really don’t know how else to say it…Clendening is a SURE THING to become a very good NHL DMan…could he benefit from playing with a Hammer or Seabrook? Yep, but that shouldn’t keep him back down in the AHL where he has NOTHING left to prove.
Tim, in spite of what you are hearing about Hayes, he isn’t gone yet…I was told last night by my friends (the 2 brothers in TOR that are player agents) that the Hawks are trying hard to get Hayes signed before Friday…if not, he is likely gone during the draft as part of a trade.