Stan Bowman’s Love Affair with the 2012 NHL Draft
Working on a totally different project, I wandered over to the 2012 NHL Draft and was immediately caught off guard by the number of players from that draft class who have, at some point, been part of the Blackhawks organization.
It appears Stan Bowman loved that draft – a lot.
Here are the eight players who made up the Blackhawks’ draft class in 2012:
- 1 (18) – Teuvo Teravainen, F
- 2 (48) – Dillon Fournier, D
- 3 (79) – Chris Calnan, F
- 5 (139) – Garret Ross, F
- 5 (149) – Travis Brown, D
- 6 (169) – Vinny Hinostroza, F
- 7 (191) – Brandon Whitney, G
- 7 (199) – Matt Tomkins, G
Only two players from that class – Teravainen and Hinostroza – have appeared in an NHL game to date. And only one, Tomkins, is still affiliated with the Blackhawks organization in any way.
Teravainen and Hinostroza have both been traded away. Ironically, both were sent packing in salary dump deals; Teravainen to Carolina with Bryan Bickell and Hinostroza to Arizona with Marian Hossa.
So which other players who were originally drafted in 2012 have, at some point, been acquired by Bowman and/or played in Rockford?
- 1 (10) – Tampa Bay – Slater Koekkoek, D
- 1 (22) – Pittsburgh – Olli Maatta, D
- 1 (24) – Boston – Malcolm Subban, G
- 1 (27) – Arizona – Henrik Samuelsson, F
- 2 (34) – NY Islanders – Ville Pokka, D
- 4 (93) – Edmonton – Erik Gustafsson, D
So the Blackhawks initially selected eight players, only two of which made it to the NHL with Chicago; and both were traded away. Chicago then brought in six more players from that draft, five of whom have been on the ice at some point for the Hawks (albeit less than a television timeout for Subban).
It’s worth noting that the 2012 NHL Draft was a good one. There was a lot of good value found by other organizations that year.
In the third round the Blackhawks selected Calnan 79th overall. The following eight picks saw goaltenders Matt Murray and Frederik Andersen and defenseman Colton Parayko hear their names called.
Chicago didn’t have a fourth round pick in 2012, but in the place of Calnan the Hawks could have selected forward Andreas Athanasiou or defenseman Jaccob Slavin (both fourth round selections that year). Athanasiou was selected by the Red Wings with the 110th overall pick; the Hawks had owned pick number 109, which was dealt to the Sharks.
The Blackhawks also passed on Connor Hellebuyck, who was selected nine spots ahead of Ross in the fifth round. In place of Ross, the Blackhawks could have picked Alexander Kerfoot, Colin Miller or Connor Brown.
Basically tells you all you need to know about this guys ability to evaluate talent and one of the many reasons this organization is in the state that is in. Need to replace him already!
Maybe he’ll sign Vesey and acquire Gostisbehere, lol.
his love affair with the 2012 draft is almost as strong as his love for nmcs, cap hell, and trading first round draft choices.
With Wirtz’s endorsement of Bowman and McDonough last week no change coming soon. With 19, 88, 2 and Debrincat contracts up after 22-23 season, plus Dach and Boqvist elcs and numerous others due after 21-22 season, expect Strome and Kubalik signed to 2 or 3 year deals likely. That may be the window Bowman has to bring back another cup before a new President and Gm are named. Seabrook only player signed beyond 22-23, until 23-24 but have to think he is not likely still an active player at that point, either ltir or moved around expansion draft. Maybe looking a build up next year or 2 toward another cap run before then.
Just to note Beaudin up in summer of 22-23 same as core.
Mitchell elc would be 2 years and up after 21-22 season as would Murphy, Dehaan, Maatta , Carpenter and Shaw along with 77 and 27.
@ ian
isn’t life depressing enough without the explanation of the current contracts?
and how are they going to build up for another cup run when they are already in cap hell and the team is the lower side of mediocre? why would a free agent want to sign with this team? keith is regressing and all of the other d-men aren’t nearly in his class. and if at least two of these young d-men don’t make great strides next year we are screwed on the backline. and if none of them make great strides we are devastated. i am a very devoted hawks fan and want to be optimistic, but we also must realize the possibility that not one of these young d-men might turn out to be any better than a fourth d-man. then what is the plan?
BBB didn’t mean to ruin your day but just thought of the “they’ll figure it out” endorsement from the owner towards Pres. and Gm. With contracts all expiring by 22-23, seems like that’s their window to figure it out. Can current Gm and coach do it, not convinced they will without at least a new coach.
As far as cap goes, will they as someone suggested sign a top pair dman or a Hoffman to top 6, not very likely. Signing Kubalik, Strome and maybe another European fa is doable with minor roster moves, in what likely is not going to be a year that is not a contender year. After next year adds can be made, doubt you see a big ufa signing, but made through trades and development. Is it possible all the young dman crash and burn, yes but it’s easy to post here and say they’ll all be hofers too. Both unlikely but somewhere in between, where that will be is huge and next year should start to show that picture.
Surprised talks with Crawford haven’t been happening if he is returning too, maybe they are and not public knowledge yet.
I’ll say this and really this is from my limited knowledge of the organization. Stan is really into “upside” and “ceiling”. That’s his bent/philosophy.
It’s why he swings at a lot of 1st rounders from past drafts like Koekkoek and Nylander.
Fans and followers may disagree with that and that’s our right, but Stan and the people below him all follow that mantra.
IMO Boquist will almost certainly be a top 4 D man perhaps a top 2
He should be playing in top 4 next year and whenever the Hawks are good again he’ll still be at least top 4 D man – I feel confident that he’s someone to build with
We don’t yet know on Mitchell or Beaudin or Carlsson or any of others like Regula – where their ceiling might be
The short season robbed us of a chance to see more of Beaudin who to my eyes showed good potential
Next season with Boq, Keith and Murphy in top 4 they need one of DeHaan or Mitchell to also be able to play top 4 – two big question marks admittedly
NBC sports network Chicago is re-broadcasting “classic” games from Hawks, Bulls, Sox. I watched a 2010 semi final against the hated Nucks last night. Great game, and wasn’t that Hawks team special? Q was skating Buff, Toews, and Kane. Talk about a wrecking crew. That Hawks team didn’t back off physically against ANYONE. Q skated 4 solid lines. Team played solid defense. What a pleasure to watch, and also worth mentioning, Niemi was really good between the pipes on that Cup run.
Check your tv listings for what’s on moving forward. Stay home, be smart, and be healthy everyone.
Let’s Go Hawks!
Any word on the condition of Boqvist after going into concussion protocol. Did he suffer another concussion or not? If it was another concussion, that’s a big red flag. Will he be able to play till 25 years of age before the doctors or he himself says enough is enough. Is he able to handle the physicality of the Nhl? Early indicators are that he cannot. Hasn’t he been out of action this season, due to injury, at least 2 or 3 times? That is the main reason he could be up for trade.
As for Boqvist ever being a top 2 defenseman, offensively yes but defensively no. With his physical stature you would be comparing him to a Duncan Keith who has been a number 1 defenseman for years. He hasn’t shown the quick twitch movements or hand-eye coordination of a Keith. Plus Keith has proven, despite his lack of size, to handle the physicality of his position.
For what it’s worth, Beaudin was impressive for the little time we saw of him. He seemed to be able to slow the game down and make the right reads. In a word, he was composed.
@ playball
from what we have seen i agree with your assessment of 27. especially defensively. and beaudin is a smaller guy. to me they are pretty much the same guy and can you afford to play two of those guys in the top four? maybe against the bottom feeding teams, but a blues type team would crush them. can you imagine what the 2010 team would do to those two? and that type of player isn’t a guy you want in your third pairing.
i don’t want to be the negative guy, but who among these new guys is going to be the next hjalmarsson that every top team needs?
and on a “is it just me?” note. i know roenick was only with the hawks eight years, but it bothers me that anyone wears his number. a brilliant player who loved being a blackhawk who was traded away by a cheap drunk and his drinking buddy. the same two drunks who chased larmer out of town three years earlier. and last year it was horrible for me watching jokiharju wearing larmer’s 28. i am just an old guy who loves hawks players who loved being hawks.
Great posts by BBB. Anyone who thinks there is some short-term window to complete for the cup is delusional. Not when you need 2 top four D, 3 top nine O, and another blue-chip G. Hawks system is thin on talent and in cap hell to sign UFAs.
All this talk about deHaan coming back from his fifth surgery is ridiculous. Next season is going to be another tough one.
Original6 we heard the same delusional comments about not realizing Crawford’s career was over last spring and look how that worked out. We don’t have much choice but to let it play out and hope they get it figured out. Good chance it may be awhile before finals happen again. I waited 55 years for my first cup to enjoy, i’ll can be patient for a couple more years and see where it goes.
Hard times brings out the character and best of poeple. There isint positive or negative here. Tehre is tell it how it is. Not being realistic being what kind of player you are.
As Bolly says suck on thaaaat!
Bunch of puussy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaCGZlRFg1A
This goes to anyone who is negative, reality or not, suck it up, get on who you are apart of like a man, none of this FLR shit.
Tell DET sullshit. Trade me right Fukking now.
@ ian
i waited 49 years between cups and then a windfall. i am fine with the team doing what is necessary to become vibrant again. what i am not fine with is ignorant management putting band aids on bad teams from year to year with the very short sighted goal of making the playoffs the next year and figuring out the future later. and sacrificing that future with ill fated transactions that don’t work for the present and put the team behind the eight ball for the future. how has that worked the last three years and in what condition has it left the team?
this ridiculous pursuit of “winning while the core is still viable” doesn’t work when there are bad players surrounding the core. each of the cup winners the last decade were terrific teams with excellent supporting casts for a core in the prime of their abilities. and each of those teams had to fight for their lives to win the cup. there were no gimmes in any of the final rounds. in 2010 they were an overtime goal away from a seventh game. in 2013 they were looking at an almost certain seventh game with 75 seconds to play in game six before the legendary, miracle finish. in 2015 they were only one goal up with little more than five minutes to play before the second goal basically iced the game. my point is that each of those teams had excellent players throughout the lineup supporting a large core in their prime and yet were fought tooth and nail for their cup wins.
well the core is about half gone and the abilities of those remaining, other than kane, have waned considerably. and they are surrounded by a supporting cast that leaves much to be desired. so they aren’t competing for any cup victories any time soon and i am out of patience with stupid management and don’t give a rat’s ass if 2, 7, 19, 50, and 88 are traded over the off season. they are players only. wonderful players who brought us incredible experiences and life long memories. players who i will hold in the highest of regard as champions of my favorite sports team. but i was a diehard blackhawks fan long before they, or almost anyone in the entire blackhawks organization, were born. i have many blackhawks heroes from many decades past and, although most weren’t champions, i loved them all.
it is the blackhawks sweater i learned to love when i went to my first game in 1955 and was blown away. and so i don’t care who is wearing that sweater. just that the collective bunch at any time plays well, plays hard, and has a chance to win any night, make the playoffs most years, and be able to compete well in the end of the season tournament. the hawks of the last five years are not that type of team. i don’t blame the players. for the most part they play hard. they just are not good enough for the diminishing talents of the remaining core players to lift up. that bad supporting mix is all on management as is the cap hell the team is in once again foisted on it by bad management decisions. maybe kane will be able to be productive long enough to play another season on a hawks team that can compete for the cup. the others likely will not be able to.
so ian, i am totally out of patience with the morons who have left the state of the team in this condition and very angry with rocky for allowing this management team to continue.
Rick Flair sucks monkey.
Killer Swagg.
Hossa PIT.
Hear, Hear BYE BYE BOWMAN. Well said!
Let’s Go Hawks!
Whoooo!
Bicks Shawzer where you guys at, eh.
Donot make me hear this Flatlander stuff anymore. Brothers.
Boys- I know I sing the praises of Dennis Gilbert a lot BUT consider…he had a solid college career, he has shown he will step up. We need Gilbert & a similar young guy paired with our skilled D. We need a couple Cramarossa types. Hey.. I could be full of it but given the cap issues…that’s how I see it…maybe we take a risk on a bruiser forward in the first round to add immediate grit ( since we have to go youth) any 1st or 2 nd rounders that fits the bill???
@ tim 2
agree. team going nowhere. dump maatta and give gilbert a shot. what’s to lose.
BBB- thanks. Moors- love your passion dude
BBB most of the great Blackhawks i watched over the years, finished their careers somewhere else, that’s not an entitlement. I share your frustration, was hoping to see off ice changes but the owner wants this route, it’s his team, appreciate what he has accomplished so far and not going to sell him short. There is a ways to go but as other franchises have shown it can turn around quite fast can only hope that will happen here too. Give the young hopefuls a chance to see what they can do before condemning them. I just refuse to be constantly negative about everything because of only a couple bad years, don’t get that at all.
Wow, Fournier, Calnan, Ross, Brown! Thx Stan, you’re a genius!
Sounds like Mitchell going to sign, just waiting to see if he can burn a year of his elc this season first. Any elcs signed right now are for next year, not eligible to play this year. Thought is that may change if this year resumes and Blackhawks play some games. It is a 3 year elc for him, age 22 it drops to 2 years not 21 as i said before.
A little optimism goes a long ways to good things happening.
This negative macho man i want to hang myself talk is a drag/on life for those people. Ouch how can someone live like that.
Leaders like Toews has that kind of passion.
Yea donot get me worng with mostly positive comments over the yrs. I am just as pissed and tell it how it is when needed. We sucked last yr, playing without a full roster for the first 30 games, and sucked the first 10 games this yr. Both sections the sch was very screwy. The last 2 yrs before this season we didnot have 6 NHL Defensemen and one of the last 2 yrs didnt have a NHL goalie.
For as much as this sucked monkey, it was the only way to get top 5 skilldraft players. Which is prob only way to get back to top 5 team again in a couple yrs.
Cant overlook how important it was to do bad, record wise, and get these elite players of the future. For example when PIT is done they are done for a long time because they wasted there future picks every yr at deadline. They have no elite players coming at all.
We have several coming soon/already here starting out. Two more elite draft players would be that much better and we need it. Then we can fill in with the Soupys Maddnes Rozys Odyuas Hoss Richys type players. In the meantime get some players that will make any player pay the price, ahrd retatliaiton, everytime another team hits our players in face/helmet/head.
So when you think about it, have two shit yrs-without a full roster and another shitty season this yr and things donot look good because hey were at the cap and have players that are temps but they have caphits now that are anchors. Its the best thing thta could happen because it gets us more top 5 draft players/elite players.
Where Cindy and headshot pansy going to be ina couple yrs with no one coming.
19 88 will be smiling again and always smile last.
The point there is PIT may have been competetive last few yrs (once the salary cap watereded down the top 10 teams) they have no elite players coming.
19 88 have some coming already and more on the way with this draft and maybe next draft. Another two elite players will make a huige difference.
The pIT players will hate there last 5-7 yrs. 19 88 will like theres.
Boys-Wednesday is April 1st. How
‘Bout an April Fools challenge??? With what & where Wirtz is ….it could be very interesting….don’t ya think?
Looks like thats it for people posting. Only news on elc signs or when draft is. Everything and everybody cant do anything but watch virus news.
Glad I had enough about half a wk ago. Now time will go by faster, like before you know it its May 1st. Nothing will change until then, prob May or June.
The starbuck guy said China was about 9 wks and US was on wk 3. So thats a good 6 more wks to go with virus, mid May.
I cant image playing playoffs in july and aug and having finals after labor day.
Moors- thanks for posting. This site IS the next thing to hockey.
After years of following the discussions I have time to jump in. Sometimes I agree with the discussion, sometimes not but it’s all fun. As a little background……I have played hockey since age 6. Played high school and college hockey then many years of recreational. Found the Hawks on WGN when I was a kid. Great memory of Lloyd Pettit on the radio. “A shot….and a GOAL!!!”. Great announcer.
I am eternally grateful for the 3 cups, never in a million years did I think I would witness something like that. I grew up with the Cubs also (the 1969 collapse still bothers me big time). I used to be fond of saying “I can’t die until the Cubs win the Series and the Hawks win the Cup”. Felt really safe saying it!
In my opinion the Hawk defenseman aren’t nearly as bad as advertised. The much bigger problem are the forwards. There are only a few Hawk forwards that consistently play a 200 ft game. The others put little effort in back checking, won’t go into the corners, refuse to work hard to gain puck control, won’t take a hit to make a play, etc etc. Playing a solid 200 ft game is more of a mindset than finesse. It’s not necessarily fun nor glorious but is a critical element of winning teams that the Hawks sorely lack. I put this on the coach! Every coach I ever had at any level would never allow forwards to play this type of game yet it’s been common place with the Hawks for several years. By allowing opposing forwards to fly through the neutral zone without a serious challenge exposes even the best defenseman.
Combine the forward issue with a weird defensive scheme that seems to encourage the defenseman to leave their position to play some sort of chase game………a recipe for a real mess.
Hossa was the consummate forward, worked harder that anyone. His contribution to the Cup teams cannot be overstated. Unless and until ALL forwards dedicate themselves to a 200 ft game the volume of high quality shots will continue. Kane is the only exception that I would allow. You don’t ask a thoroughbred to pull a plow.
On a different subject…….Bowman is not the best GM but he’s not the worst either. He did a good job replenishing the roster after the 1st two cups. I would argue that he was blessed with a rock solid core that included some young superstars. But the fact remains, he didn’t mess it up. My issue with Bowman is that he does not grasp the Branch Rickey rule…..”It’s better to trade a player one year to early than one year too late”. Bowman, more often than not waits too long, asset decreases in value then the move is made. Gustaffson sound familiar? My guess Bowman is either hamstrung by the heavy breathers that he reports to AND/OR he gets emotionally attached to players, Seabrook being just one example.
Enough for now.
@ wingate
agree totally with your assessment of the forwards, but i am not giving kane the break you do. i would never ask him to scrum in the corners or take the body. i am not stupid and don’t want him to be crushed. i just want to see him making a better effort to get on the south side of the hawks blue line, get in a passing lane, and have a good stick. just be a pylon and eliminate some open ice in the d zone.
with bowman i would say he patched here and there in 13 & 15 rather than retooled. when it came time for him to retool rather than patch here and there we got the last three years. retooling is a job above his pay grade as is negotiating contracts.
a whole lot of love for the branch rickey reference. bickell comes to mind when jimmy hayes was waiting in the wings to replace him, out perform him, and play for less than a quarter of what bowman paid bickell. and how about trading seabrook for whatever rather than paying him?
Wingate agree with you, the defense has potential and forwards need to step up defensively. For those reasons to the frustration of many Kampf and Carpenter saw alot of top 9 minutes. Also why Strome saw so much time on the wing because this system requires the center to play a role of defenseman in own end. Kane has always been a generational player on offense and survives on defense, that isn’t going to change. Need a bigger committment/support from alot of other forwards on defense as none of the younger ones fit Kane’s description.
Don’t understand a system that makes defebsemen chase players all over Dzone and leave the front of net exposed either, the main reason i have said don’t see Colliton as the coach if they are to contend again.
Bye Bye Bow
Complete agreement with you on Kane, he should play exactly as you have stated. Sorry I didn’t intend to imply that Kane should nothing defensively I just don’t expect or want him to play a physical game.
I agree it was a patch job, not a re-tool. The point I was trying to make is he did patch successfully enough to win more cups. However…….I’ll bet that at least 20 other GM’s could have also patched those teams enough to win as many cups as Bowman’s teams. The “core” was incredible. There are also some that would have really screwed it up. The former Boston and Edmonton GM Peter C comes to mind.
Bowman has failed big time in the re-tooling that needed to start (in my humble opinion) after the loss in round 1 to St Louis. Relying on the aging core to pull the weight of the entire team was doomed to fail.
Also agree on his negotiation skills. Don’t get me wrong I love Seabrook, he was rock solid for years. But when his contract expired I was all for looking to the future by trading him. I was shocked by what Bowman did. I am convinced that this was a case of Bowman getting too close to his players to make a sound decision (the emotion I mentioned earlier) and a foolish act of compensating for past performance. There are so many instances of teams being burned by paying for past performance that I find it amazing the mistake is still made. The best GM’s are able to act in the best interests of the organizations long term goals. Trading a popular player that the fans love is tough to do. Even on this board there seem to be quite a few posters that want some Hawks to be Hawks for life. I don’t subscribe to that approach. Herb Brooks built an Olympic champion by keeping his distance from the players and making tough decisions based on logic not emotion. Ted Thompson in Green Bay operated in similar fashion.
By the way I loved your March 29 post. It was what inspired me to join in (finally after procrastinating for years).
On another subject I would love to know the details of the Sharp trade a few years back. At the time there were rumors that Montreal had offered 2 second round picks, Bowman didn’t move on it instead holding out for more then eventually getting next to nothing in return from Dallas other than cap relief. If the Montreal rumors were true (I have my doubts) then Bowman should have been shown the door at that time.
Wingate-your post on the Hawks was really top shelf. The Forward play is as you noted. The D scheme is flawed. Giving Kane a pass on mucking is spot on. The coaching is more than suspect…see my paint by numbers posts…&….Toews recent interview. I’ll give Colliton this “ONE “ thing-he does not have on his roster a Carcillo, a Brouwer, a Versteeg, an Eager. Those are “ exactly” the grinder types the Hawks lack …..& though not enforcers, they would drop the gloves to stand up for a Kane, a Boqvist,…yes- even a Keith, Toews & Teurovainen. I just hope those guys will be ok in retirement…but that type of player we need …Kampf, sikura, fortin, et al should be gone. Workers like Hagel, up & coming Josiah Slavin/ in my opinion… that’s the ticket. If Bownhead gets rid of Gilbert, it will “ once again” demonstrate the GM lives in a speed-smurf time warp. Just a “ few” , hell…..a couple is all the hawks need. Boys- watch the Gilbert games in Dec 2019. My take-the hawks played better with him on the ice.
Don’t forget-tomorrow in 4-1. With the cast of characters on this site… we could have great numerous posts!!!!
Tim 2…….Thanks for the compliment although “Top Shelf” gives me more credit than I deserve but I’ll take it anyway (ha ha). Your “speed-smurf” time warp comment is on target and made me laugh. Hopefully Bowman recognizes that the team is top heavy in smaller, less physical, one dimensional players and needs an infusion of players that offer some balance. Deep down I think that Bowman does recognize it but I am not sure if he’ll really commit to it. Needed are at least several forwards that are loaded with “gittyup”. Not talking goons though, I’m talking about forwards willing to take punishment in the slot, exhaust the defenseman and most importantly score greasy goals. They count just as much as the pretty perimeter goals. As a defenseman myself I can tell you that the greasy goals always bothered me more than the pretty perimeter goals because it usually meant that I just got out worked.
Welcome Wingate – you seem like a thoughtful poster – always appreciated
I agree on Bowman doing a good job in 13 and 15 (really 14 too – they were one goal away from 3 in a row really when you think about it)
But it was more than a patch job – even with 19, 88 , 2 and 7 the Cup never comes easy – a roster has to be built around them
Why didn’t PITT win every year with Crosby, Malkin, Letang et al. if filling out a roster around them were so easy or LA with Kopitar, Dought, Carter, Quick et. al.
Bowman deserves the criticism he’s received the last 3 years but he also deserves credit where it’s due and that’s building of the 13 and 15 Cup teams
I know a lot of posters will disagree but IMO he did a great job through those years and has the Cups to prove it – just because the last 3 years have been bad it doesn’t tarnish what he did for the latter 2 Cups
Wings/Wraps…I’d sure would have liked to be a fly on the wall in 2013 & 2015.. and now. How much of the roster was Q’s input? I watched the Q interview from 1-2020…& he said Bowman & he got along, discussed the roster. But…I remember Dan Carcillo’s post which suggests otherwise. Anyways….
Wrap, good stuff. Bowman deserves credit for 3 cups, no doubt. As you say Cups are not easy to win. My opinion…….the toughest championship to win in any sport so yes hat tip to him for getting it done. To get it done he traded away future assets which eventually caught up with him as we have seen for several years. This is totally understandable and acceptable in my onion. I’ll gladly accept some bad years that follow 3 cups! Where I start to lose faith however is the attempt to keep the band together after the game 7 loss and round 1 elimination to St Louis. I maintained then and still do that the “window had closed” for the team as constituted and needed some fresh blood. I thought it was time to start the re-build. Sell high! We can argue about selling after that loss but I do think most would agree that it was fairly obvious that Hawks window was most definitely closed the next year when Nashville took them out in 4 games. Yet Bowman kept the faith and did not start the re-build and to this day has not started a re-build. By sending away more of the future for another shot at the cup would relegate the Hawks to mediocre status, possibly for years to come. I do understand the temptation to go for it, but my thinking/experience led me to believe that the fire burns only so long and was on life support after the St Louis loss. I have no idea what his plans are now but I suspect some of the valuable assets that could have been sold “high” will either not be moved or sold “low”. I certainly hope that I’m wrong. Again, Bowman may have his hands tied by senior management.
By the way I have enjoyed your posts the past few years.
check out 2019-2020 nhl players poll on secondcity.com. hawks jersey voted number one in a landslide. interesting results reflecting player’s opinions.
There’s a reason for 3 cups…Q. I will never forgive the Hawks for dumping him… and to this day, I’ll bet the core guys feel that way. Again…” IF” some of the add on’s were Bownhead doing, I’ll concede the point that GM contributed to 2013 & 2015. I just don’t know if that’s the case. BUT-reading the tea leaves-Bownhead went speed post Nashville sweep, Q knew he (Q) needed muckers-grit & in my opinion, Bownhead axed Q because ( 1) Bownhead thought he knew better and (2) he wanted “ all” the credit for the cups. How can I say that? Jealousy is a powerful motivator. Q was (is) loved. Bownhead, Mc D are afterthought wannabes with no dicks!
Yea thanks for posting, wingate, so were not talking to ourselves. It seems like Red Dawn and only so many people have radios, so they can post.
Good thoughts, I was thinking even when we have more good players the team system is not good-enough. Even with a experienced coach and stuff still need more. We need bother there and for the poepl ewho say gm. So far Ian has it the most right, even when we get moar good players this system then will show its not good-per ssay and I have nothing agasint Collitan I was routing for him bigtime and was thinking it could be really good to have something different for new NHL.
With gm only the last 1 yr, maybe 2 did the league go headshot cheating crazy playoffs tuff like that. Now we need to adapt, besides not having enough physivcal guys anyways.
Not to think about that, we were one goal one cross bar above one offside and one 2 penaltys let go and one bad bounce.
Also think on Bowman he could have kept Brow Soup other but he did go the distance and fully chisel core and took our hits all at once, to reload better.
We had some space there but he did go the distnace there. Ian said he recently said we were doing a througho reload through draft, no rush-per say. That is going the distnace again, and having a roster we have now-missing a little really is best way to get top 5 draft players.
NEWS ALERT: The NHL has announced several new rules today in an effort to limit cheap shots, illegal hits & risk of players developing Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy. (1) Referees & Linemen “ missing” calls will be subject to immediately being pummeled by the aggrieved team’s enforcer. (2) A player responsible for an illegal hit, an illegalblow to the head will be fined, suspended & an forced to skate in the ice-capades during the suspension.
NEWS ALERT- Brad Marchand was strapped to a board at center ice in Montreal where a local peewee team practiced the art of cheap shots on him, including stick work. He is then to be flown to Tampa where 5 blood hounds will lick dog food off his face.
NEWS ALERT-President Trump just dispatched a contingent of Broadstreet Bullies, led by Dave Schultz, to China …to beat up the entire communist party.
NEWS ALERT-Xi Jinping announced Beijing will now be known as Philadelphia & China as the United States of China, following meetings with communist officials & a contingent of Broad Street Bullies.
NEWS ALERT-Detroit: Screaming “ payback is a bitch…this is for Denis”, a crazed Blackhawk fan in a motorized wheel chair ran over Dino Cicarelli in downtown Detroit.
Well its tuff to argue being the 1 seed after the STL yr, which we got screwed in 3rd periods with 2 penaltys after they called none the whole game, even though we killed the two-it led to them having more time on OFF and getting a goal.
Same for Bowman trading for good players at deadline. He didnt really add in 14 and we didnt win, even though we basically did. So that why I was ok with adding in 16, even though I didnt want to trade danault-trade someone else to get those two players from MTL but add them. he had to after not adding in 14, which really was going for 4 in a row. And we wouldnt have been worn out if we won in 14 for 15 because after beating LA in 14 it was a blind flod walk in the park vs. NYR.
Although starting in 15 LA and BOS fell off the earth. The difference between them is BOS got some, 4, 1st picks and reloaded with young wave players, LA didnt because they had already traded away there future to get half there core from PHI or call LA the PHILA team.
The differeence I see is LA ANA and PIT next have noone coming in terms of elite draft players.
We have two and more coming with this draft and maybe 21 draft, which would be 4 good elite players.
So we can do what BOS did because we have the young wave players coming and BOS didnot get a player as good as Dach. I guess Pastrin is elite so.
Point is theose teams are done when they hit the wall. We are like BOS and have more good yrs coming. Just get shit together by the time these guys are ready and F ing add god ufa players like Soupy Oduya when its time.
Not even sure if Marchhand deserves to be tied to a flag pole and poled during his games. What a clown.
So glad Shaw put him in his place in 2013 Stanley Cup.
Wingate – Enjoyed reading your posts. You referenced Ted Thompson as a GM that relied on logic over emotion. I am a lifelong Packer fan and certainly agree with that comment. He had some shortcomings but was brutally honest in his assessment of veterans and did not give out contracts based on the past. What strikes me in thinking about this is that for a GM to operate in that fashion he needs the absolute support of the owner, which in Green Bay is different than any other sports franchise. He could never have made the decision to move on from Favre if the owners didn’t have his back. My long winded point is that there are probably many GM’s who know the right decisions to make but cannot pull the trigger because the owner doesn’t want to alienate fans or god forbid have a poor year while building for a better future. I am not trying to make excuses for SB but marketing is a critical function for the Hawks and I think there have definitely been player decisions that were heavily influenced by folks above SB. That is usually a recipe for mediocrity.
Its ok-per say that we did that. Its part of what get us top 5 draft players. So big picture wise, for a few off yrs-that piss people off in different ways and are expressed in different ways, that is whats better for the long run and being a top team again. If we were to not have gotton 4 top 5 draft players these yrs now, then I would worried going foward. Since we did and are the young wave core is going to be good now.
Kind of backwards thinking, got the job done though. Prob 4 top 5 draft elite players.
Then get your shit together.
MS – you make a solid point about influence from above factoring into roster decisions and I have no doubt it’s true to an extent but to what extent and with what players we’ll never know
As well part of the GM’s job IMO is to say no if the owner/marketing VP have ideas that aren’t good ones so no matter the roster move the GM wears it
However that is also true for the good moves that are made whether you think the GM was the main driver behind a certain roster move or not – speculating about who might be pulling strings behind the scenes is a fool’s game – again we don’t know and likely will never know
So in the absence of a tell all book the buck stops with the GM for roster moves – ie. Stan gets credit for good ones and the blame for bad ones – end of story – not Scotty Bowman or Rocky or McD – Stan is the man for better or worse
MS
Agree, I suspect most GM’s/player personnel execs are often frustrated by interference from others in the organization that have the power to mess things up. I think it’s likely the same thing happens in the Hawks org. Bowman is not a dumb guy. Some of his trades have been real head scratchers. I have little doubt that Bowman does not truly have complete authority to make personnel decisions.
Fro my previous posts: “My guess is he’s either hamstrung by the heavy breathers that he reports to AND/OR he gets emotionally attached to players with Seabrook being just one example” and “Bowman may have his hands tied by senior management”.
And what appears to have been disagreements on players between Bowman and Q probably led to some failed moves. Dannault to Montreal is a prime example.
Correcto Mundo, Wingate re Q- Bownhead observation. I’ve been looking at the draft. Dach is going to be a good one. I see mock drafts favor the Hawks picking Lundell. I like Dylan Peterson’s profile. What’d think, boys???
I posted about draft mth ago? already maybe more. Just had the plaeyrs in top 10 and like last yr draft the top 2/3 were same in evevry mock.
Now with no hockey until next yr, we saw how much the mock changed for most players after top 2. Last yr draft there was a gap after top 3-5 selected.
This yr draft, it does seems as Ian said its is the same qualiry to 10th, were people Thought it was last yr, it Is this draft.
What does that mean, it means we can get as good of a player at 8th pick then we wold get at 3 or 4.
Dach is a gem and might be the top player in that draft.
Lots of FW, basically same as loast yr draft, only FW in top 10 players. Heythats what we need more of-draft wise. Hey maybe thats why we draft 4 Defensemen in the two draft before Dach and now FW. Nah that makes sense. Good thing there is it takes Defensemen-per say longer to get established. To really know how good they are going to be.
Like Hammer, he was really good right off the bat. It wasnt until get got to 200 gemas he really really got good though.
So your looking at the Horsemen and Dach and another top 5 player and maybe another top 5 player next yr draft, being ready at the same time.
Wave.
@ WINGATE. Im very happy that you have now decided to post.
So welcome to you.
It’s always nice to hear from posters that have common sense and obviously know their stuff.
I have read all of your posts and everything that you have said I think is very accurate.
As a hawks fan what would you do if you were the GM and there was no upper management interference.
So this draft looks like its quality deep to 10th pick area, like 10th pick area is as good of a player as 4th or 5th pick.
Sounds like when we got BoQ, he was the 2nd best player in that draft at the start of the yr that yr. So whereever people want to rank him, we got a top 5 draft player at 8th pick.
Looks like we get another elite player like that. This one being a FW with lots of skill.
MS good point on Bowman on the signings. Wrap watched a panel discussing this point earlier this season. Leafs in particular where it was mentioned that Dubas was basically told how to handle their big contracts. They talked on how Gm ultimately pays for it with his job if things don’t work out even though it was Owner or Presidents call. Said it has happened often over the years.
Mo lots of players close to Nhl ready this draft is the concensus, but how many after Lefreniere goes 1st will have an impact next year is debateable.
Thats cool to me though. I am more interested in best player available, for overall as a player, not whos most ready the fastest.
Kind of like Teravainen and BoQ. Both were the better players then players draft around when they were picked and both were basically in next yrs draft. So give them an extra yr and they are that good. Look at how Teuvo got better after he got going a couple yrs. You know.
Thats what I want us to get is to get another really good player like that. Take the better player even if hes not ready for a yr after most of 1st picks are.
We really need another top 5 guy so were lucky its quality deep like you said. Not holding you to it just that I believe it untill prven not.
Seeing how two previous draft were top 10 players were D except foe one or so. And last draft and this draft are top 10 full of FWs except fore one or so.
Makes me wonder what the 21 draft holds in terms of that.
Mo way it’s projected right now, lots can change before then of course, top half of 1st round is fairly evenly split between Centers, Wingers and Defenswmen and maybe a goalie there too.